If that tactic works, I will give you all of my Influence and Prestige I ever earn until server shutdown. 
[ QUOTE ]
If that tactic works, I will give you all of my Influence and Prestige I ever earn until server shutdown.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks!!! fingers crossed then....
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
The thing about raid24 is that, if I recall the comments right, the devs did it... then made hami harder based on the fact they could do it.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
The only way I see raid24 working under current conditions, is if there was some way to completely remove all the mitos, including the chance for Hami to spawn more - that way, he becomes little more than an uber-Arch Villain, that needs more damage dealing, aggro management, and protective healing than just one team alone. I somehow doubt that the devs would have tested Hami with such a lopsided group as having loads of kins and hardly any blasters - it wouldn't be fair on every AT - therefore, they must have had balanced teams. There's SOMETHING out there, but not necessarily in The Hive itself... guess the first port of call would be the area in Eden called the Hive - same name, different zone, could it just be coincidence? Then again, the Crystal Titan TF starts there, so again it could be a red herring...
I know the thing, i bet you need those insperations from the Eden Tf, IF YOU USE THEM YOU BECOME IMUNE TO HAMMI'S DAMAGE, well that's my theory.
Tried Psy, didnt work, i say its the flashbang kings row temp powers from level 5-10
[ QUOTE ]
Tried Psy, didnt work, i say its the flashbang kings row temp powers from level 5-10
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, you need the Isolator badge from Outbreak - it'll allow you to one-shot him, I swear 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tried Psy, didnt work, i say its the flashbang kings row temp powers from level 5-10
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, you need the Isolator badge from Outbreak - it'll allow you to one-shot him, I swear
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe ooo.. ooo maybe.. .. Isolator (when used as a title) uber-boosts the effectiveness of RAD Defenders and Controllers, turning Hamidon, into radioactive mush 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tried Psy, didnt work, i say its the flashbang kings row temp powers from level 5-10
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, you need the Isolator badge from Outbreak - it'll allow you to one-shot him, I swear
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe ooo.. ooo maybe.. .. Isolator (when used as a title) uber-boosts the effectiveness of RAD Defenders and Controllers, turning Hamidon, into radioactive mush
[/ QUOTE ]
And if that ever works, I'll turn up to the next convention dressed as a Prinny...
Im a rad...
with isolator badge.....
next stop the hive im getting me some jelly!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tried Psy, didnt work, i say its the flashbang kings row temp powers from level 5-10
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, you need the Isolator badge from Outbreak - it'll allow you to one-shot him, I swear
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe ooo.. ooo maybe.. .. Isolator (when used as a title) uber-boosts the effectiveness of RAD Defenders and Controllers, turning Hamidon, into radioactive mush
[/ QUOTE ]
And if that ever works, I'll turn up to the next convention dressed as a Prinny...
[/ QUOTE ]
you better hope it don't work LMAO -- knowing this game.. anything is possible.
They should just bin hammy as its no fun. They should keep hammy as a GM thats a challange for 3 teams. But give players some thing better than a no fun lag fest of about 4 hours where the only thing your sure to come away with is a bitter tast in you mouth.
The Devs need to pull there fingers out of there collective [censored]'s and give the players a fun challenge. Rather than hiding behind lies such as you need to find out the way to do it only so that they can nerf it agian. Its about time they bloody well sorted a deccent end game. 
Sorry I didn't make the raid, I usually love ot go to the big gatherings but was already commited to a barbecue.
I did a lot of research on Hamidon way back when so here's my tuppence on the issue if you'd like to hear it
[ QUOTE ]
I think when the healing blanket was in place the PA weren't necessary. It just added to the lag, which stopped the controllers ability to hold. Spamming heals also added to the lag, but its necessary when you don't clear the Mitos.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never considered the PA drop strictly necessary but they were very important to the smooth running of the way. When you had someone doing it properly it was pretty hard to get killed by the mitos. If you're going to clear the mitos I'd always favoured the idea of the turtle as it were dubbed with the healing blanket which was blanketing enough to keep everyone alive regardless or revive those that fell. I prefer clearing the mitos to ignoring them as when you fight Hamidon you have two enemies in my mind, the first is lag and the second is the number of controllers, if you can minimise lag and maximise controller attendance you're already most of the way there in my opinion.
[ QUOTE ]
Would this not be a good time and opportunity to take Hamidon back to the drawing board both artistic/concept-wise and how the servers can manage it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it would, the Recluse Strike Force is a much cooler way to get Hami-O's and challenge yourself so mabe heroes should have equivalent. The Hydra Head in the sewer trial has always been much like a mini version of Hamidon that spawns minions to fight you at set health levels. The difference however is that the Hydra head has a defeat mechanism with the shield generators; that's what makes that trial fun wheras Hamidons holding defeat feels like you're exploiting a game mechanic. I say this because you also used to be able to hold the hydra head and just beat it down but the devs put a stop to it because it was stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
Hami isnt a problem, he isnt hard to kill just annoying and can be tedious if things dont go right. Hes killed nightly on most US servers using the old kill all mitos, everyone hit him once then hold him to death.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, still works and is still tedious as hell. Raids are fun because it's a huge community event, the raiding itself kinda sucks.
[ QUOTE ]
There are some US sgs who farmed Hami to death using end drain and this was before the advantage we now have of end drain being a % as opposed to a set number.
[/ QUOTE ]
This I would like to hear more about because I've heard people talk about it but can't find any evidence or enough people willing to test it. Having Hamidon spawn mitos anyway would really suck after you drained his endurance and beat him down but if it works I tihnk there's certainly enough kineticists out there to give it a go.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is, while it sounds like an awesome idea, it requires too much co-ordination. The IQ of a mob is the average IQ of all the members of the mob divided by the number of people, and this rings truer for Hamidon over anything else in CoH. A raid guide for a public raid has to be insanely simple. The reason we don't have an attack phase on Defiant (and, imo, the reason why we're so successful) is because it requires no extra co-ordination beyond "Stand here and click this and DON'T do anything else". We don't have the server population to start doing private raids with more complicated guides, unfortunately.
[/ QUOTE ]
My first thought here is what are the numbers required to 1. Floor Hami's regen and 2. Floor Hami's endurance. On principle, if you were to get enough trusted defender types to do those two things you could in principle take down Hamidon with one scrapper, from there onward the time required to defeat hamidon would simply be proportional to the number of people you have damaging him.
[ QUOTE ]
or he got immobolized half way through (which did happen, I saw some tenacles, ice, earth immobilize animations under hamidon)
[/ QUOTE ]
As far as I'm aware, Hamidon is always immobilised, also, people can't resist using their crey pistols on him.
[ QUOTE ]
We make sure we have one global channel per group
[/ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I don't like global chat. Too fiddly for my tastes. For me, raid organisation should have teamspeak running for the fastest relay of information. Specialised teams can have their information passed to them on the team channel and any information to the general raid should go over request. Really, only the raid leader and maybe the hold team leader need to be on request since too many people being 'leaders' can be confusing.
[ QUOTE ]
The best indicator is whether or not you can A) See Tesla Cage
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, if Lag isn't deathly you can sometimes see a whole mess of different [censored] pop up on Hamidon to indicate a hold, it's nothing concrete because you all know things appear and dissappear for fun during Hami raids but you should be able to tell the difference between held and not held if you look carefully enough.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the next raid should have a designated PR man.
[/ QUOTE ]
I tihnk it helps to have the raid leader say everything is going awesomely every few minutes. Of course, we could try to reach out far into the ether and bring back Midnight Agent to manage the staging area. That was fun.
[ QUOTE ]
Fact is, we were short on experienced players and raiders. Neither Jersey,
[/ QUOTE ]
Woo! That's me. I like the idea that some people might hold me in any kind of esteem. 
[ QUOTE ]
From the Eden Trial - resist inspirations dropped from opponents en-route
From the Hydra Trial - temp powers allowing much higher damage than normal powers allow
[/ QUOTE ]
This is why I have a problem with Hamidon. These two trials have big baddies with a cool defeat mechanisms. Hamidon plays like a half finished version of a trial.
[ QUOTE ]
But has anyone TRIED the ideas suggested?
[/ QUOTE ]
Many a man has searched for the fabled 'press here to defeat Hamidon button' and many have failed lost to a madness of romantic visions. I like to imagine you can use the time travelling devices at the abandoned portal corp site to affect Hamidons devolution into a giant cell and return him to something more defeatable but it is a mere dream.
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know if it's been investigated if something can be done about the Mito spawn, or is it definitely to do with people in aggro range?
[/ QUOTE ]
Legend has it that if you hide everyone behind rocks to the east of hami and take him below mito spawning point with a minimum number of heroes he only spawns mitos for those heroes in Line of sight. Frankly, however, the concept is far too complicated to be practical.
[ QUOTE ]
The point is, a womble spoon isnt required. Just get 3 x 8 man teams of trollers, with a decent mix of secondaries, tending towards rad and kin, 2 stone tanks, 5 empaths and 1 full team of damagers and you are laughing every time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers beat Hami, exactly. We could very well start a Hamidon fighting SG with maybhe 35 or so forumites to play it safe. That'd be what? 32 controllers a tank an empathy defender and a rad?
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I've read references to this legendary event frequently - when did the devs do this? Would it make any difference whether it was pre- or post-enhancement diversification?
[/ QUOTE ]
It was pre a lot of things, I wouldn't think it would be quite so easy now.
[ QUOTE ]
If there is a "womble spoon", it sure as hell isn't in the Hive.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's pretty clear that there is no obvious object. The blinkie finder sounds cool by the way.
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___***___***___
__*___*_*___*__
__*____*____*__
__*_________*__
___*_______*___
____*_____*____
_____*___*_____
______*_*______
_______*_______
[/ QUOTE ]
love
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I know the thing, i bet you need those insperations from the Eden Tf, IF YOU USE THEM YOU BECOME IMUNE TO HAMMI'S DAMAGE, well that's my theory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Doesn't work, something to do with the mechanics of special/untyped damage that is less than obvious to me.
I'd hold a raid every week if we could guarantee a good turnout of controllers (or a good turnout of end/regen floorers if that works) but I don't think we're that dedicated, which is still cool.
Of course we could prove that wrong by rounding up Forumites in such a way to create the Hamidon death squad that rules over pitiful villains in PvP thanks to our ridiculous Hami-O fueled builds. Line up your controllers to my left to be powerlevlled please.
[ QUOTE ]
They should just bin hammy as its no fun. (...) give players some thing better than a no fun lag fest of about 4 hours where the only thing your sure to come away with is a bitter tast in you mouth.
The Devs need to pull there fingers out of there collective [censored]'s and give the players a fun challenge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Damn straight. I would LOVE to talk to some of the devs involved, just so I could demolish their arguments and call them a bunch of imberciles to their faces. Having worked in the field of games development, the more I read and learn of Hami, the more I realise it is a cluster-fewk that they don't know how the hell to fix. It is textbook "how to ruin an RPG" stuff. I remember reading this guy's website ages ago on "how to build the perfect RPG" and at the time a scoffed and said "pshaw, that's so old and geeky." I find it sad that a modern RPG demonstrates all the text-book faults he listed.
[ QUOTE ]
Legend has it that if you hide everyone behind rocks to the east of hami and take him below mito spawning point with a minimum number of heroes he only spawns mitos for those heroes in Line of sight. Frankly, however, the concept is far too complicated to be practical.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hamis mito spawn is a range based attack if you in range he will spawn them, i think its 300 ft (yrds, whatever) which is the snipe cap that was introduced to stop the hami farmers using one method.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
Of course we could prove that wrong by rounding up Forumites in such a way to create the Hamidon death squad that rules over pitiful villains in PvP thanks to our ridiculous Hami-O fueled builds. Line up your controllers to my left to be powerlevlled please.
[/ QUOTE ]
Kestra, Grav/Kin, lining up!
Yesterday I had a fair old email conversation going with Dod Kalm, discussing old Hami... and so I present here an edited partial transcipt.
Hopefully some of this may provide new ideas or we will get feedback on tested deadends!
Please note that I have slightly edited some of the following and so any grammatical or spelling errors are almost certainly min!
---------------------CONVERSATION STARTS--------------------
Dod Kalm:
I think raz's suggestion of a team s probably correct although could a team of scrappers get that damage done before Mito spawn?
Judgement Dave:
Razs suggestion is reasonable, but its still brute force needing massive emphasis on 2 A/Ts (and indeed subsets of the ATs as specific powersets are called for)
As I stated I do not believe that the devs would have designed a task (with a special award) that had success requirements that almost preclude many toons from getting the award. Look at Razs squad build, no place for blasters or khelds or non-rad or kin defenders other than a solitary healer.
That doesnt feel right to me.
Its almost a scaled down version of the big raids - which possibly only work because of overwhelming numbers.
The developer in me believes that there is a more elegant solution.
And yes some may argue that we need lots of rad and kin, and that the developers arent nice - see what they did with the regen rates on GMs/AVs which needed rad/kin to stand a reasonable chance.
BUT...
The AV regen rate adjustment was (as I see it) a quick fix to make AVs tough again - it hadnt been tested/planned half as well as Hami was (hell - they planned a whole new map just for him!)
They realised that they had overdone it and soon scaled back the regen rates. Now rad makes it easier, but Ive been on a couple of teams that have taken down AVs without them and done it reasonably quickly.
Flying hearts may not be the answer (but they might be!) but there is an answer and I do not believe it relies upon any one specific power or powerset - although it may be down to a strategy that is greatly enhanced if 1 of 3-4 certain powers are used as well as the overall strategy.
BTW - you ever been on one of the warwolf AV mish (may be praetorian wolves) where the AVs regen/attack rates are lowered if you can get them into the water? They have put some things like that in elsewhere in the game - why not with Hami? Something like this wouldnt show up on any map, and may not even be noticed if the effect was triggered, as people may just assume that the holds are working really well. As Hami doesnt have a mission, theres no mission text to drop hints. It may be that hes weaker to aerial assaults, or nightime assaults or that the toggle dropping effect of the simple Brawl affects him big time! somethings there, we just have no idea what it is or even if well know it when we see it!
(Actually that made me think - was I really about the last hero standing?? OK - I wasnt attacking, but I was also in the air (at just over head height))
Dod Kalm:
You were indeed... just had a thought.. what about confusing mitos? Surely an internal attack from it's own defences would yield results.. mass confusion.. rather than distracting his defence using it against him?
Judgement Dave:
Confusing mitos sounds good... there are human diseases that turn the body immune system against itself - usually quite devastating and fatal. Confusing swarms also sounds good to me... any slow effect on mitos or Hami wouldnt hurt!
Only problem is... that feels like just part of a solution or a bonus to aid things. Like Ive said I cant see the answer being critically reliant upon just 1 or 2 specific powers. If it is then they will be temp or pool powers that anyone could get.
Is Hami particularly weak to Shrivans? Does Katy Hannons spirit have power over him? Is the Crey pistol an uber weapon against mitos? Is the answer simply to get non-stop vengeance running? Does the maligned whirlwind clear away the mitos? Who knows... but the truth is out there!
As regards ATs - missing blasters seems very odd. I could forgive the devs for making Khelds surplus to reqs, as khelds are an award in themselves... so wanting khelds with HOs might just be greedy! Although you still need to put the work in to get a kheld with a HO!!
Dod Kalm:
I don't know.. the whole turning it's system against itself seems so deliciously ironic and simple that people may miss it.... A simple answer to a complicated question if you ask me... hmmmm
I think either that or you may be right.. a simple discardable seemingly useless power may hold the key...
[ QUOTE ]
Such an association would not have been disastrous for the host species if it were able to multiply more quickly with the parasite than without it, and if the parasite did not lyse a cell of its host too frequently. The great gain in metabolic efficiency conferred by the oxidative respiration of the primitive mitochondrion would have helped the host cell to grow more quickly and multiply more quickly, and therefore a single-celled host species could survive the occasional lysing of some of its cells.
Nonetheless, the host would gain a further advantage if it could stop the primitive mitochondrion from lysing the cell of its host. As the primitive single-celled eucaryotic cell evolved into separate species each species might have developed its own ways of 'disarming' its parasite. One way would have been to 'confiscate' those genes of the parasite that were involved in the lysing of the host and place them in the nucleus under the control of the host. Another way might have been for the host cell to interfere in the expression of the genes that remained functional in the mitochondrion by sending host-derived control proteins or RNA into the mitochondrion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like confuse to me??? Or AB Hammi if its pos
Just an Idea.. been looking at RL mitochondrial deformations. And radiation is one
Judgement Dave:
AB Hami? The only AB I can think of is adrenalin boost... do we really want to boost Hami?????
On the subject of mitos... when teams have done mito-clearing have they cleared all of them?? As your email states mitochondria are used for respiration... if ALL mitochondria were either killed or acting against Hami then surely his respiration ceases. No respiration = suffocation/death. Maybe the clue is there - the developers named the mitos after a biological entity because they do serve the same purpose.
You mentioned radiation affecting mitos in biology... hmmm... Can Warburg nukes be used against Hami?? Whilst I've never had a Warburg Nuke, and don't know limits upon where they can be deployed, they meet the criteria of a temp 'power' that anyone can earn!
Dod Kalm:
Well apparently an overbalance in the metabolism effects the mitochondria in a bad way.. hmm I think looking at hami in this way is a good idea... "the developers named the mito's after a biological entity because they do serve the same purpose." That's exactly what I was thinking..
---------------------CONVERSATION ENDS----------------------
As this was just the 2 of us, I'd love to see what views others have on any of the ideas discussed/raised/revisited. Thanks.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
Please note that I have slightly edited some of the following and so any grammatical or spelling errors are almost certainly min!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh the irony to mispell mine at the end of that sentence....
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They should just bin hammy as its no fun. (...) give players some thing better than a no fun lag fest of about 4 hours where the only thing your sure to come away with is a bitter tast in you mouth.
The Devs need to pull there fingers out of there collective [censored]'s and give the players a fun challenge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Damn straight. I would LOVE to talk to some of the devs involved, just so I could demolish their arguments and call them a bunch of imberciles to their faces. Having worked in the field of games development, the more I read and learn of Hami, the more I realise it is a cluster-fewk that they don't know how the hell to fix. It is textbook "how to ruin an RPG" stuff. I remember reading this guy's website ages ago on "how to build the perfect RPG" and at the time a scoffed and said "pshaw, that's so old and geeky." I find it sad that a modern RPG demonstrates all the text-book faults he listed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which to me indicates that there probably is an elegant solution... it's the brute force approach that carries the faults/problems!
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
Is the answer simply to get non-stop vengeance running?
[/ QUOTE ]
This I think would be pretty hilarious but I think youse guys are giving the devs too much credit on the magic bullet front. I don't imagine they've thought through how a real cell would work half as well as you guys have. And confusing the Mitos has been tried lots of times and has yet to yield results.
Maybe the confuses have magnitudes just like holds.... 
I'd say that the solution we have for Hami raiding now cannot be the origional vision for how a raid was supposed to work.
The version we have now is heavily biased in favour of certain AT's and makes others superfluous. It also breaks the server character limits.
All the indications we have from other trials etc in the game indicates that the Dev's expect a SG to have about 24 "uber" members, that's what the IoP trial is designed for after all, and the other trials all have a hidden key somewhere.
Of course, we've seen before how good the internal QA server is at picking up new bugs in old systems, they're normally picked up by the players on TC or live, and since no-one has ever found the intended raid strategy, it's entirely possible it broke sometime back in I3 and no-one's actually noticed yet :P
What would be nice is confirmation from the Dev's of how big they expect a hamidon raid team to be, whether they expect every AT to play an equal role in the encounter, and whether the mechanism they have in place for a "proper" raid is still achieveable on the live servers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They should just bin hammy as its no fun. (...) give players some thing better than a no fun lag fest of about 4 hours where the only thing your sure to come away with is a bitter tast in you mouth.
The Devs need to pull there fingers out of there collective [censored]'s and give the players a fun challenge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Damn straight. I would LOVE to talk to some of the devs involved, just so I could demolish their arguments and call them a bunch of imberciles to their faces. Having worked in the field of games development, the more I read and learn of Hami, the more I realise it is a cluster-fewk that they don't know how the hell to fix. It is textbook "how to ruin an RPG" stuff. I remember reading this guy's website ages ago on "how to build the perfect RPG" and at the time a scoffed and said "pshaw, that's so old and geeky." I find it sad that a modern RPG demonstrates all the text-book faults he listed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which to me indicates that there probably is an elegant solution... it's the brute force approach that carries the faults/problems!
[/ QUOTE ]
Y'see... I agree with the thought process there, but a single confirmation that there is an intended strategy other than brute force would go a long way here.
I think the best anybody has ever done is to have States respond with a "my lips are sealed". I'd much prefer a "there is a way.. go look for it. We're not going to tell you anything else"
find me: @Ebon Hawk or @Jayd Dragon on Union
Has anyone tried using Coolant Belt temp power from respec trial on Hami? Or the 2 temp powers from Hydra trial also could work on him as they do on Hydra head.
[ QUOTE ]
It'd be darn nice for kindly Bridger or someone to comment on really stupid ideas... save troops of 50s spending hours on Monkey island chasing a wild goose!
Not suggesting that they help blow Hami away... but the really, really wrong ideas (outside of the Hive) could just lead to a lot of frustrated players (i.e. customers) who've effectively wasted hours of their life!
[/ QUOTE ]
Just testing if they are that nice...
What if the key is that all 24 players have flight (or use team flight) and line up in the sky in the following heart formation (heroes shown as asterisks, underscores for layout only...):
___***___***___
__*___*_*___*__
__*____*____*__
__*_________*__
___*_______*___
____*_____*____
_____*___*_____
______*_*______
_______*_______
Maybe if you get the plane right (so Hami can 'see' it) he becomes overcome with love to his new found heroic friends and just surrenders?
Hey - this idea is only as whacky as some of the others... and I really can't keep deadly serious for more than 2 posts! Would be fun to see though...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)