Things that make people leave PVP (social side)
By
Ange_de_moquerie,
Posted on: 2006-05-15 18:32 in Everything about PvP
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Debt apart it's perfectly comparable, yes.
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Teleporting out of the base (considered safezone) :
Annoying, but valid tactic.
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Not really, if it has been to just annoy because someone has tped ur mates away from their base. No gain there but the joy of annoying that person.
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being TP'ed, higher level characters seem more likely to resist/evade the effects
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Well, that if u get some powers with resistances to tp... which are not many. Things will get better in i7, but some ATs will still be completely vulnerable
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'revenge against revenge where we were being a-holes' is just a jerk tactic.
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As is revenge itself. U can't really consider that 'revenging' in ur case would be fair, but if the other replies he is a jerk. Bearing in mind that the only reason why u would have drone tped him was to annoy, I find natural that u r stroke back (violence only generates more violence and bla bla 
)
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and if anyone does anything about it you'll run and cry to all your mates and come and throw bricks through our windows? Because thats what it comes down to really.
"Oh noes, a minor setback in response to our ganking! Call all friends and get them debt!"
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Debt? who cares about debt once u got some 50s . Its teaming in pvp (if i want duels i go to arena) what i look for 
. By bringing some peeps I know clearly that the other side will do the same, and nothing more fun than a huge battle in the zones (yeh without drone nor npc tps )
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About avenging an avange, i think its perfectly done, too. U teledrone someone as a 'mess with me/my mates and u'll get this' message. It's just fair if the other replies.
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No its not a "mess with my mates and i'll mess with you", its a "if you gank us, we wont take it sitting down". If you want to be the first step in debt-wars and/or killing PVP, be my guest, its not like people are going to be able to stop you. After all, thats what this part of the convo is orbitting around, you want to be able to fight without actually having any resistance, right?
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TP droning just to annoy kills pvp as much as NPC tp imo. Its not the debt what annoys you, it's someone abusing of a tactic that requires no skill and the guy doing it thinks he is 'da man' for it. U are not better than the one messing with ur mates if u take ur particular revenge. U just add more woods to the fire
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And as i said, it's all just good fun 
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Deliberate debt isnt everyones idea of fun, pal. You still havent said what the screaming fuss is about teledroning, that makes you want to get debt involved.
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Well think i did before, but the fuss is doing something just to annoy. If ur friend is tped away from the base to be killed and get bounty there's some gaining involved. 'Revenging' by drone tp means no gain for you, it's just a non-skilled way to annoy, and that is not the fair play nor the sportmanship u advocate for, IMO.
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TP droning just to annoy kills pvp as much as NPC tp imo. Its not the debt what annoys you, it's someone abusing of a tactic that requires no skill and the guy doing it thinks he is 'da man' for it
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personnaly the debt annoy me a lot too. a lot of hero that come in PvP are level 50 so debt is nothing for them.
when i go in siren or warburg with my dominator lvl 33 for trying to have a little fun and that after 30 min i delog woth 14k debt part of the fun vanish. leveling for me is enough pain to not go for debt.
moreover people that don't want to die in PvP (i mean those who hide or tp in the drone/mob are very weird as diying in Pvp cost nothing and by the way they have the choice to not come at all.
so debt is not the tiny part of the annoyance of being tping in sentinel as far as i'am concerned.
First of all, droning causes NO debt.
Secondly, i've already covered the reasons for droning, and they werent merely to annoy. You were argueing that teleporting people into a mob and slowing them (to deliberately try to cause them debt) was on the same level as someone teleporting someone into a drone. You gain nothing by giving someone else debt, but droning is a very effective way of taking out high-threat targets when the enemy force is camping in heavy force outside your base. This has nothing to do with inflating ones own ego, because they managed to remove someone briefly from the field of play. Though threatening other people to bring in all your 'big hard mates' and cause people debt, if they dont hold still and let you rip them from the base and gank them, is the closest we have in this conversation to an "im da man" move. As it stands, you have yet to show why droning is worse than base-snatching, or validate how droning is on-level with telemobbing. Because so far, I see only this :
Base Snatching : No debt, highly likely to remove victim from play for a short period, often used in ganking.
Droning : No debt, exceptionally likely to remove victim from play temporarily, often used in defense of base against overwhelming numbers, best defense against base-snatchers.
Telemobbing Full outdoor debt per death, near-impossible to prevent if mez is involved, used to bully individuals out of the zone.
Base-snatching is on level with droning. One technique will likely cause the enemy to resort to the other. Droners can be abducted from the base and taken down briefly, and base-snatchers can be temporarily removed from the fight, to allow the cornered team to fight their way out. In my view, and in the views of many people I know, tele-mobbing is far lower than base-snatching and droning combined :P
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moreover people that don't want to die in PvP (i mean those who hide or tp in the drone/mob are very weird as diying in Pvp cost nothing and by the way they have the choice to not come at all.
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Hiding is part of some peoples inherant AT strength, and some AT's operate a lot better with a stealth power of some sort. Dieing in PVP does cost something, as you pointed out before you said it didnt, it slows your characters growth temporarily, and thats why people dont like to die by the hands of mobs, at least. Droning causes no debt, and is a good way to thin overwhelming numbers who are making it impossible to leave the base, or even stay inside the base (due to base-TP'ers). Just as much as they have the choice to not come, they also have the choice to come in the full knowledge they'll get annoyed.
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Well, that if u get some powers with resistances to tp... which are not many. Things will get better in i7, but some ATs will still be completely vulnerable
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As far as I know, every teleportation power thusfar has an accuracy check. Original levels before entering PVP can make a bit of a difference.
I havent read the entire post so I dont know if this has been discussed, but the main reason I stopped my account was that PvP is completly purposeless, there is no reason to want to become better other that to become better at pwning other player.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
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You gain nothing by giving someone else debt, but droning is a very effective way of taking out high-threat targets when the enemy force is camping in heavy force outside your base.
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If that's the reason, its a valid tactic, but IIRC in ur first post you said you would drone tp someone because he was tping your freind away from base. If it is to take advantage in a situation, that's another thing imo.
And calling some friends does have nothing to do with being 'da man' . It has more to do with wanting bigger battles taking place, rather than having to wander for minutes to find a possible target. In this case i said id bring a couple of kins to avoid being tped away tho
Im not touching any particular incident and Im talking only for myself; but, personally I don't care about debt that much. Often I have had 100k+ debt from visits to sirens call. But if someone tp-drones me there is no possibility of fighting back and it makes me 10 times more angry than anything regarding mobs.. Its the helplessness that I loathe. So far I havent experienced this sort of thing that much , but things may change.
I think what I try to say is avoid generalizations, and dont think something is ok just because it causes no debt..
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And calling some friends does have nothing to do with being 'da man' . It has more to do with wanting bigger battles taking place, rather than having to wander for minutes to find a possible target. In this case i said id bring a couple of kins to avoid being tped away tho
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The original thing I said, was that someone was teleporting my teammate out of the base, so to deter him from repeatedly landing him in a squad that makes death practically instantaneous, I droned him. Your original post said that if I droned you, to deter you from repeated base-snatching, you'd call in your friends and cause me debt. Thats whats known as being vinctictive, or simply a bully.
"I can push you all I want, because if you push back, i'll get all my friends and we'll beat you up". Of course in this situation, beating a person up doesnt just mean a hospital trip, it means unavoidable debt, and likely several deaths-worth as your little gank squad chases the target down over a period of time. So its very much an "im da man dun mess wif me" approach.
The fact remains that deliberately getting someone debt is incomparable, because base-snatching and retaliation droning neither give debt, nor require you to call in the ganksquad. You also said in the quote about that its a whole new ballgame if someone drones to 'take advantage of a situation'. What exactly is base-snatching, if not simply taking advantage? Droning has always been used as a deterrant against people who tear you away from the base/hospital. Its a "Fine, i'll fight on your level" deal. This is why im frowning so much at why you directed your debt-squad post at me. Its like two boxers in a ring. Boxer A is punching Boxer B in the stomach repeatedly, so Boxer B punches him back a single time, Boxer A thinks this is unfair, so takes off his gloves and starts using a baseball bat. If the only way you can fight in PVP, is if nobody will retaliate against you on your own level, because you threaten them with debt, then you're a pretty poor PVP'er in my (strong) opinion.
That is precisely why I dont understand why people are so furious about droning, but not base-snatching. Normally to get someone to drone you, you need to be sat on top of their base in enough force for them to be unable to leave, and have one or two people teleporting people out into instant hospital trips. Yes, its true that you've got a cat-in-hells chance of getting away from a droning attempt alive, but base-snatching isnt much fairer. The difference is, if you get that close to the enemy base and set up camp, I really think you should expect it... just in the same way if you are stood right on the edge of your own base, doing nothing, you should expect to be teleported into the field. People who base-[censored] too excessively have no place to call droning in retaliation a "lame tactic", especially if they're going on a long broadcast flaming spree about it. They're practically the same thing.
Snatching turns into droning, droning turns into snatching.
The reason these things dont happen too much, is because they know what'll happen if they start using it. To me, that sounds like fair game. Many dont do either, as part of an unwritten code. At the same time, many DO do these things, but only rarely as a last resort dirty-trick. Thats all fine and groovy, it really shouldnt be a big frigging taboo. Sure, say "Aww come on, that was just low 
" on broadcast, but why treat it like someone just urinated on your dead fathers grave?
Then, there was the debt-threat that came on top of that. Yes, the devs said that using mobs during PVP is a valid tactic, and not considered griefing. Sounds logical, seeing as there are AT's that dont have much damage output, and teams arent always available. But to stick someone in a mob, mez them, and then refuse to even try to finish them yourself, is just too far IMO... and I dont recall the devs quite touching it in that context. I stand by what I said, if people start calling in their friends to form mob-squads every time someone fights fire with fire, PVP will die, and it will die fast.
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That is precisely why I dont understand why people are so furious about droning, but not base-snatching.
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Because I am yet to be killed a single time after been snatched from the base, I'm not helpless in that situation you know. Snatching from base doesnt happen that often in the first place. And Im not cowering in the base that often either.
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Normally to get someone to drone you, you need to be sat on top of their base in enough force for them to be unable to leave, and have one or two people teleporting people out into instant hospital trips.
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Poppycock. I have been tele-droned while fighting in the air above the ship or above the water. We werent camping the base, just waiting in the water and certain joker doesnt even attack normally at all but continuously tele-drones people, even when the villains are not in particularly big trouble.
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I stand by what I said, if people start calling in their friends to form mob-squads every time someone fights fire with fire, PVP will die, and it will die fast.
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Yes.
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Poppycock.
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I should have inserted "In the teams I associate with.." in there somewhere, shouldnt I? 
So if actually tp someone that is camping in the base so that we can kill him and get bounty is unfair? Well i can't see more fairness in the use of tp foe than that. What's the use of that power then in pvp? teledroning then, as it seems the only thing that seems fair pfor you?
And if I call a couple of friends it is being a bully, but you helping you friend isn't? Well AFAIK, it's called team pvp for a reason, and it's IMHO just as fair that u help ur friend, as it is that some other friend come and help me (besides i pointed out it would be a couple of kinetics, so obv the reason in this context would be that they gave me protection to tp foe .
About your original post, you said you would teledrone someone that is tping ur friend out of base so that his team could kill him. They tp to get the bounty, you tp because your friend has been tp'ed . Teledroning somebody, unless when it is to take benefit from a tactical situation as the one commented before gives u advantage. Teledroning because you are annoyed since your mate has been tped, doesnt.
Well that's my point of view, of course, not necessarily an indebatable truth.
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So if actually tp someone that is camping in the base so that we can kill him and get bounty is unfair?
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Not necessarily.
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What's the use of that power then in pvp?
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Extracting individuals from their teams, giving you some unhindered time at taking them out. Whether or not their team catches up with much time to help them is another matter. It can also be used to pull one of a teams damage dealers/healers/mezzers away from them in the middle of a fight, whilst it does occupy one of your own people, the delay can seriously help you win a fight, especially if you're fighting on an elevated piece of land, and the teleported player only has SS. Teleport Foe has quite a few good uses in PVP, but as the name says, it is used to bring an enemy to you.
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...teledroning then, as it seems the only thing that seems fair pfor you?
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Im not sure how you've come to that conclusion. I was merely saying that droning is no better or worse than base abducting, even taking into account the fact a drone victim has to travel back across the zone again, that is no more or less a valid tactical decision than ganking someone from a base-[censored]. I was asking why droning induced such frothing fits of "OMG LAME" when the very same people have no worries about repeatedly base-snatching-to-instagank, even when the bounty has just been claimed and wont be available for a while yet. To me, its just a blatant double-standard. I can appreciate the fact excessive droning is just as bad as hospital-snatching or constant base-TP-instagank, but for some reason people view even a single droning as far worse than a consecutive line of teleganks on the same player leaving a hospital.
"We can do annoying teleport tactics but you cant, because when you do your version, its unfair, skillless and lame, wheras ours is perfectly fine"
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And if I call a couple of friends it is being a bully, but you helping you friend isn't?
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Thats correct, because what you were threatening to do (if people faught back against you), was to deliberately try to get them into debt, and not just try to do that on your own, but ENSURE debt, by calling in a debt-squad. That is very much bullying in my eyes, 'valid' tactic or not. If everyone who had a fair number of friends with good builds decided to behave like this, threatening those who fight back with the ensurance of debt, then PVP would die off unless the devs came to a new decision based on debt-squads.
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Well AFAIK, it's called team pvp for a reason, and it's IMHO just as fair that u help ur friend, as it is that some other friend come and help me (besides i pointed out it would be a couple of kinetics, so obv the reason in this context would be that they gave me protection to tp foe .
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No, your original post that sparked this off was :
"If u teledroned me because i was teleporting ur mate out of base i would call a couple of kin friends to safely tp u and ur friend to the nastiest mobs around Its just pvp, and sooo fun "
Clearly meaning that you meant to drop us in a mob, and likely use mass slows to get us into debt. Your only motive for this, was that I would be fighting back against someone basesnatching. Not anger. Not frustration. Not trying to boost my own ego, but simply to hinder you, as you sit outside our base, pulling us out on a whim. If you bring the fight into our very base grounds, we'll bring you INTO the base. You lose only as much as we lose by being teleported out, only you have longer to get back to the front-line, and that is fair enough in my eyes, considering that our forces would be stuck in the base needing a way out to warrant the droning in the first place. Yes, some people do drone excessively, but that is no different from the basepullers either. Not everyone is like that, and I refuse to let people sling childish remarks at me (in game) because I made a smart move at the time. If people want to drop the burden of excessive droners on someone, then they can bloody well wait until an excessive droner shows up and stop directing that angst at the rest of us.
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What's the use of that power then in pvp?
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Extracting individuals from their teams, giving you some unhindered time at taking them out. Whether or not their team catches up with much time to help them is another matter. It can also be used to pull one of a teams damage dealers/healers/mezzers away from them in the middle of a fight, whilst it does occupy one of your own people, the delay can seriously help you win a fight, especially if you're fighting on an elevated piece of land, and the teleported player only has SS. Teleport Foe has quite a few good uses in PVP, but as the name says, it is used to bring an enemy to you.
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Then if i understand it properly, the guy that was tping ur friend was using it as u say, but what was the point of teledroning him for that? It was not to get any advantage, as u just say 'Some guy was teleporting my only teammate out of our base two nights ago, so in return, I tele-droned him'.
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...teledroning then, as it seems the only thing that seems fair pfor you?
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Im not sure how you've come to that conclusion.
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Well if u say tp foe is not fair to tp someone towards ur team, and its not fair to tp to mobs, but u teledrone, i took its the only fair use u find for it
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I was asking why droning induced such frothing fits of "OMG LAME" when the very same people have no worries about repeatedly base-snatching-to-instagank
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IMO, basically when u tp foe towards your team u do it to get a kill, not for simply make the guy have to travel all the way back from hospital. Teledroning could be discussed when u try to attack roght after that teledrone, to take profit of that action. Teledroning and staying in ur base gives no gain to u or ur team, just annoys the other peep. Besides, if someone tps a guy from his base, he wont have to travel a lot to get where he was, unlike the guy that was near ur base."
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And if I call a couple of friends it is being a bully, but you helping you friend isn't?
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Thats correct, because what you were threatening to do (if people faught back against you), was to deliberately try to get them into debt, and not just try to do that on your own, but ENSURE debt, by calling in a debt-squad. That is very much bullying in my eyes, 'valid' tactic or not. If everyone who had a fair number of friends with good builds decided to behave like this, threatening those who fight back with the ensurance of debt, then PVP would die off unless the devs came to a new decision based on debt-squads.
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I agree with u that debt in zones prevents many from pvp'ing there, and yeah i think it should be a debt free area -thus a xp free area- (but also a drone free area)... and what i said is not a threat: If i tp a guy to gain bounty, and i get teledroned for that, but yet, u dont attack, means u just teledroned me to annoy me. If after tping ur friend, u tped me to ur team instead of teledroning me, i would think its to gain bounty, and i would just type a 'lol, that was my move! ' or something like that in broadcast while i travelled back to my group .
TP'ing into mobs just to cause debt is lame and theres just no call for it, but tping a hero or villain into bunch of other players i think is ok along with drones. its a valid tactic if you cant get out of the base
its happened to me a few times, i've no problem with it, its pvp anything goes. i know is said abou tp'in into mobs just to cause debt is wrong, but still it comes with pvp if ou cant handle little debt every now and again you houldnt be playing.
It's really down to the individual for whats acceptable in pvp but if your idea of pvp being "fair" all the time then i dont think you'd be cut out for it, every online game is like this, it's rarely "fair". You can either suck it up, use better tactics or actually.....lord forbid consider team play.
As for abuse through pm's or in broadcast, sometimes when i get an easy kill and the poor hero is lying there all lifeless i say something like "lol gotcha" but it wont be anything like " omg ur crap ", i wont hurl abuse at them or anything to put them down just because ive beaten them.
I'v had a few nasty pm's when ive been beaten but i dont let it get to me, i got smacked around by a tanker in a 1v1 the other day in sirens call, i knew i was going to get my [censored] kicked but for funs sake i agreed to it, the fight lasted around 5-7mins... very long i know but i can hold my own, eventually i ran out of endurance and got killed... the abuse i got from this pleb was unholy, theres no point in typing it out cuz most of it will be censored anyway. he tried to make it out that he totally kicked my [censored], which is far from the truth, a tanker vs a MM for 7 odd minutes... i think thats pretty good by my standards anyway.
I have had gank squads after me just to try and get me debt simply because two blasters couldnt take me down on thier own. im not ther best pvper in the world hell i dont even know what a good MM build would be for pvp but when people cant take getting their butts kicked every now and again they shouldnt be in a pvp enviroment.
If you go into a pvp area expect the worst to come out in people. Some are there to have fun(depends on what you call fun but lets say its "fair play" heh define that one) others are there just to annoy and cause grief, so expect it.
*hides in flame risistant suit*
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What's the use of that power then in pvp?
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Extracting individuals from their teams, giving you some unhindered time at taking them out. Whether or not their team catches up with much time to help them is another matter. It can also be used to pull one of a teams damage dealers/healers/mezzers away from them in the middle of a fight, whilst it does occupy one of your own people, the delay can seriously help you win a fight, especially if you're fighting on an elevated piece of land, and the teleported player only has SS. Teleport Foe has quite a few good uses in PVP, but as the name says, it is used to bring an enemy to you.
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Then if i understand it properly, the guy that was tping ur friend was using it as u say, but what was the point of teledroning him for that? It was not to get any advantage, as u just say 'Some guy was teleporting my only teammate out of our base two nights ago, so in return, I tele-droned him'.
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Oh for the love of god! IT WAS FOR A TACTICAL ADVANTAGE. How can you not understand how removing a basesnatcher is a tactically sound thing to do? Trying to form a resistance and break through the line of base-campers, you're all getting buffed and vwoop, someone vanishes and needs re-buffing, people who refuse to join teams either hold back to wait for them, or instantly charge without everyone to support them, and ultimately get repelled yet again. By droning someone who is basesnatching, they are taken out of the equasion temporarily so that we have a greater chance of pushing the enemy away from our base. And just in case you missed again : BY DRONING A BASE-SNATCHER, I PREVENTED HIM FROM BASE-SNATCHING, MAKING COMBAT AT THE BASE THAT BIT EASIER.
For petes sake, man. Are you even following this conversation? :P
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...teledroning then, as it seems the only thing that seems fair pfor you?
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Im not sure how you've come to that conclusion.
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Well if u say tp foe is not fair to tp someone towards ur team, and its not fair to tp to mobs, but u teledrone, i took its the only fair use u find for it
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Where exactly did I say that teleporting an enemy into your team was unfair? Where? Because if you read back to my last post, I was saying that was one of its primary uses. When something becomes a thorn in your side, when it is repeatedly used to severely hinder your teams effectiveness, the wise thing to do, is to adapt to it, or to remove the thorn. Constant base-snatching is one such thorn, and droning is one effective way of removing it. Not everyone has good enough damage capability to remove basesnatchers, and not everyone is on your team to listen to the "He's over there! Follow me!", and very few people in PVP listen to local chat whilst running back from the hospital entrance.
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I was asking why droning induced such frothing fits of "OMG LAME" when the very same people have no worries about repeatedly base-snatching-to-instagank
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IMO, basically when u tp foe towards your team u do it to get a kill, not for simply make the guy have to travel all the way back from hospital. Teledroning could be discussed when u try to attack roght after that teledrone, to take profit of that action. Teledroning and staying in ur base gives no gain to u or ur team, just annoys the other peep. Besides, if someone tps a guy from his base, he wont have to travel a lot to get where he was, unlike the guy that was near ur base."
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Simple solution then, dont camp the other sides base and repeatedly basesnatch-to-kill on the same person. Nobody gains from repeatedly killing the same person whos bounty has already been claimed, and isnt engaging in combat until the numbers are remotely even. All that is gained from basesnatching then, is that it annoys the the victim. The drones are placed at the base to discourage people from sitting too close to the gates and spamming powers in to KO people (and obviously, remove those who try to enter). Now if you're going to initiate combat over the bases perimeter, you have to expect to be taken out in the first place. Would you hate it just as much if say, someone one-shotted you with a sniper attack, or de-stealthed and offed you with a build-up critical, still forcing you to run all the way back, "for nothing"? Not everyone has the capacity to pick off targets from large, camping bodies, so droning is sometimes the only way to hit back. In base-camping situations, there isnt a great deal that is gained AT ALL. Cornered side gets bored and thins out as people leave, attacking side realises there are no real targets left and start to leave too, and before you know it, we have a near-empty PVP zone again. So far, all you've done is confirm that droning is no worse and no better than base-snatching, and have yet to provide a valid excuse to why you would telemob someone when they fight fire with fire. Though to be honest, I really couldnt shiv a git right now, you're just leading this thing around in circles and seem to refuse to listen to some of the basic things that I keep repeatedly saying.
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And if I call a couple of friends it is being a bully, but you helping you friend isn't?
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Thats correct, because what you were threatening to do (if people faught back against you), was to deliberately try to get them into debt, and not just try to do that on your own, but ENSURE debt, by calling in a debt-squad. That is very much bullying in my eyes, 'valid' tactic or not. If everyone who had a fair number of friends with good builds decided to behave like this, threatening those who fight back with the ensurance of debt, then PVP would die off unless the devs came to a new decision based on debt-squads.
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I agree with u that debt in zones prevents many from pvp'ing there, and yeah i think it should be a debt free area -thus a xp free area- (but also a drone free area)... and what i said is not a threat: If i tp a guy to gain bounty[snip]
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You dont get bounty when NPC's KO your target.
Even if debt and XP was removed, drones would need to stay, or ganking would skyrocket. Drones are there to prevent absolute basegankage. A lovely wall of scrappers at the Villain hospital doors, inside and out, and a hoard of stalkers preventing movement within the hero hospital. Nuff said there I think.
To be honest, I think im done with this line of conversation now. You're running around in circles and seem to refuse to listen to what im actually saying, so really its just a waste of keytappage.
If I had an opponent hassle me with abusive comments after beating me then I would not hesitate to petition them. Either that or I'd just respond with logical remarks they can't respond to intelligently.
I expect debt in pvp zones anyway but if i had a group of players gleefully ramming debt down my throat because they dont like the way i play, i'd leave pretty fast. A few nights back, one stalker with TP was able to TP into our base and 1 shot before the drone got them. This happened several times until I droned 2 villians and they all backed off. I dont see any problem with people attacking over bases in either direction or why people get there knickers in a twist over it.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Thing is though, misunderstandings happen, and even decent people can get ratty as hell. Some guy was teleporting my only teammate out of our base two nights ago, so in return, I tele-droned him, then said why I did it. It was supposed to essentially be an in-character gesture. A show of force if you will, "if you do that, i'll do this", to try keep things a little calmer (because my teammate was getting a bit fired up about it.) Naturally, the reaction to my teledroning was frustration, anger, an arguement in tells, then me putting him on ignore as it went too far. Later on, another villain asked me to remove him from my ignore list, he was -going- to apologise but I cut him off and basically said : "[dung] happens."
Its hard to put into words, but in most cases its easier than you think to tell apart those who just lost their temper, and those who are out to make your PVP experience an annoying misery.
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This is the post I read of you. You obviously say dozens of times that you were being base-snatched, and those dozens of times i just seem to miss that information. Maybe I'm just short sighted...
Or maybe u should reconsider who is running in circles. I did say I believe that teledroning is fair to get an advantage and then u ask again why I don't think that. What I dont see is the part where you say that guy was snatching your base in your post. Would you please be so kind to point me where is it?. He had to be very big though, to distinguish who was tping among all the snatchers, gratz for ur good sight.
It's true, I said that if someone teledroned me given the information I read in that first post, I would try and drone him to mobs, and I keep it. Did u forget to say that that guy was basesnatching your team or maybe you found that reason suited your previous argumentation and decided to implement it as if it had been there from the very start?. I really don't care though. I'm really not gonna start a post full with caps, bold text and '!!!' signs as if I was remarking something obvious to a small child, or to someone dim, soz. Not my way
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This is the post I read of you. You obviously say dozens of times that you were being base-snatched, and those dozens of times i just seem to miss that information. Maybe I'm just short sighted...
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Not really, that post you just quoted was originally what you responded to with your comment about mobbing. That sparked the following conversation, but the original purpose of my post (as I recall) was really just to show an example of simple events where droning was again considered worse than base-snatching. Yes, that one example of droning was primarily to stop my teammate from being base-snatched, but if he had gone into a frustrated frenzy (and I felt it was getting to that point), then we would have lost the last of what little organisation we had, when we were already outnumbered too. It served its purpose, the base-snatched stopped doing it for a while, and things became less frustrating.
The posts that were made in response to you after the mobbing comment, were hypothetical, and some were recollections of events i've faced before. I was trying to make the distinction between debt-squadding and merely rising to meet a different kind of attack (TP vs TP), because the LAST thing I like to think, is that there is someone out there running around thinking debt-squadding is perfectly on-par with mere droning. Thats the main thing I wanted to clear up here, and it is why I repeat certain things so many times when you seem to just breeze right over the top of them.
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Or maybe u should reconsider who is running in circles.
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I wasnt running, I was watching, and trying to point things out. Like when you began to assume it was an ego-building thing, or when you thought the droning was merely an act of vengeance with no other value than to annoy, these were assumations that had little bearing on what I had said, and I was trying to put them back into perspective before yet another one appeared. That is actually why I ramble on so much in many of my posts (not just in this thread), because I cant stand it when people insert their own, unrelated factors that end up resting upon my shoulders, and just ends up slowing the progression of the actual discussion at hand. I try to have some clarity in my posts, and be articulate where I can be, so that there isnt much room for misinterpretation. Unfortunately that means I repeat myself a fair bit when I have to re-cover something I felt we've already finished in the subject. Its likely that if it appears im not listening, its just that, an appearance, and nothing more.
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I did say I believe that teledroning is fair to get an advantage and then u ask again why I don't think that.
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Its true you said you believe its okay to gain an advantage, but then you moved on to say that you dont believe what I did gave any advantage, so I clarified how it did. The tone in your posts suggested that you only accepted droning if the person did it within your view of a good time to use it, but otherwise you would feel it is no worse than debt-squadding. Again, this is why I went to such (prattling) lengths to describe my personal view of things.
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What I dont see is the part where you say that guy was snatching your base in your post. Would you please be so kind to point me where is it?. He had to be very big though, to distinguish who was tping among all the snatchers, gratz for ur good sight.
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I dont feel like going back and quoting myself, tbh. Even if I didnt say precisely that he was base-snatching, the fact he was within range of being TP'ed into the drones does hint at that, and there was also the repeated mention of basesnatching afterwards. If I wasnt clear enough at that small detail, fair enough. As for the size of the TPer, he was average size, but figuring out who is teleporting you isnt too hard unless they are stood directly in the thick of a tighly packed group. It was easy to see who it was, when I was watching overhead and saw my teammate appear next to the one who he said he thought was doing it.
Are you trying to catch me out on technicalities here, or is it just me? I dont like having to explain myself, but you're getting the benefit of the doubt.
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It's true, I said that if someone teledroned me given the information I read in that first post, I would try and drone him to mobs, and I keep it.
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It still stands that debt-squads are far more like griefing than any single droning incident. The devs have said using mobs is a valid tactic, but they didnt touch upon purposely getting your friends together and attempting to give deliberately give debt. Besides the fact its a bit of a tantrum tactic, its doubtful that a debt-squad would be satisfied with one helping of outdoor grade debt after they went to the trouble of assembling.
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Did u forget to say that that guy was basesnatching your team or maybe you found that reason suited your previous argumentation and decided to implement it as if it had been there from the very start?
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Now you're starting to slip, mate. Dont make this personal, even though we've disagreed we've kept this civil up until now, and that is starting to slip. Seeing as you're going in that direction, fine, i'll quote myself :
"Thing is though, misunderstandings happen, and even decent people can get ratty as hell. Some guy was teleporting my only teammate out of our base two nights ago..."
That was at the very start of what sparked this line of conversation. Judging by the way things are going, you arent likely to change your view, and its obvious mine isnt budging either. A final note though, is that the "Its not who you know, but its how many you know" rule is often one used bullying. When it comes down to the tactics you've said you'd use, thats all it would come down to, debt-squads out for vengeance vs bigger debt-squads out for vengeance. In game, the worst (best?) way you can 'hurt' a person without breaking the rules, is giving debt through mobs in a PVP zone. That makes this tactic the lowest one available within the game, because if you wanted to get revenge on it, there is little else you can do to 'sink lower' to, to get revenge. Just a thought.
Outside of that, it seems to be agree to disagree time. Any sternness in my tone isnt attempting to be patronising, in case it sounded that way..
ffs....its a game!!!
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ffs....its a game!!!
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That was - without a doubt - the bravest(or stupidest) first step on to these boards I have ever seen.
Good luck to you mate, you're going to need it
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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ffs....its a game!!!
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That was - without a doubt - the bravest(or stupidest) first step on to these boards I have ever seen.
Good luck to you mate, you're going to need it
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I'd be more inclined to use the words in brackets. Given that he's not said something conciliatory to try and defuse the situation but has instead pretty much had a dig at both of those involved.
Will be looking at future posts from that user with interest to see how many flame wars he provokes!
Back to the source of the argument. Regardless of what the two warring factions may or may not think and agree on, if Bridger were to set a poll up asking:
"Are base TP'ing, mob TP'ing and drone TP'ing 'fair' tactics?"
I think we all know that the overwhelming result will be 'No'. I have TP foe on some alts and the only time I ever use it is when someone is running.
To a certain degree, TP'ing someone out of base is the lesser of the three evils and while I wouldn't do it, I can understand some people seeing it as a viable tactic, if the person is going to stay in base and wants to be safe, they can go in the hospital. I will never see the other two in the same light though.
However, if debt/xp were removed from PvP zones, I would see mob TP'ing as a viable tactic though I still wouldn't use it. Drone TP'ing on the other hand, no way. At least with mobs you have a chance to take action, against a Drone, there's nothing you can do.
Of course, all of these arguments could easily be neded is the Dev's done two very simple things:
- Remove debt/xp from PvP zone NPC's
- Stop enemy powers having any effect on players as soon as they enter the base zone. No TP's, no snipes and so on(with the exception of DoT from moves executed before they entered the safe zone).
This has been bought up time and time again but the Dev's have yet to take any action. You almost get the impression they're encouraging griefing in PvP zones.
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ffs....its a game!!!
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Congratulations on your outstanding discovery.
Then we basically aggre on that teledroning when it's not due to base snatching is low. We also agree on that tping to mobs is low. That's 2 out of 2.
About comparing teledroning to debt squadring tp, i also think that the latter is worse, for the debt's sake. But my point there was that, maybe u weren't clear enough, maybe I was short sighted there, but tbh the base snatching factor never crossed my mind when i read ur first post. So i just though that someone tped ur driend away from base to get some bounty, and to intimidate himso that he didnt repeat that tactic, u teledroned him. IMO that someone tps a hero/villian from base doesnt imply there's a gank snatching it. If u see an idle peep inside it tping him out of drone protection seems valid to me, as it is if you see him elsewhere out of base. So I didn't mean to compare teledronning to debt gank as much as I wanted to compare annoyance with annoyance. If someone tps me to the drones when im around their base just to annoy ill try to hit back if can (showing the other cheek is gent, but im not that gent ). But obv if I'm base snatching (I would never be, as its boring, but hypotehically), and i got droned tped i would just laugh and say in broadcas something stupid like 'oi! u scum! i'm gonna tp ur girlfriend to my bed in return!! ' (note the final emote to show up no harsh, but just joking )... and then call a couple of kinetics friends to perma ID me while i tp u from the highest buiding around to make u fall hehe (it's no gain, but always a good fun see peeps confused at the beginning and then run their way to safety ).
Apart from that, i agree with kinslayer. Debt ruins PvP zones. PvP zones would be much more crowdy IMO if there was no debt and no xp involved in there. But i'd even go further. I think drones should disappear, too. I'm aware that bases need some protection, but could easily be solved by having a door (maybe better having several, so that enemies couldnt know where u are coming out from) that no enemies could open/go through, and nobody could be attacked or droned while inside.
just a general reply rather htan directed at dark here...
with the new i7 tactical start coming and the not being able to rest in the hospital, do people not think that base snatching will get worse and when a side is on teh back foot all that will happen is tehy'll get pushed more and more onto the backfoot as it'll take that much longer to get back into the action, and when you're pressed back into your base and getting base snatched and ganked as soon as you leave the hospital every second counts as normally the only thing that really works at that point is suicide runs to push the baddies back.
What i'd actually like to see if a roaming 10 yard chase drone on both sides, this would patrol around the base perimeter and give chase for 10 yards.
Last point - base snatching, i've played a fair bit in sirens now and a lot of time being stuck in base and just coming in and out of the hospital doors, during all my time playing in sirens i've yet to see one legitimate use of base snatching, its always when the villains are so mightly overwhelming the heros that really theres no point in being on the hero side and its then that villains use tp foe - i mean, they already had 13-3 advantage and were all standing right ont he base corner, every hero was getting mobbed by at least 6 villains and yet someone needs to [censored] from the base, thru what? boredom? heroes can quite easily be killed in base without needing to resort to that.
I dont mind tpfoe, i've been stalked using it and it was well used, but its when there really isnt any fight at all and its just gonna make the person leave the zone - thats when its used most and thats what i object to more than anything else. Its then that its used as 'heh this will [censored] them off' not really thinking about the follow up 'oh they are doing that, hmm seeyah later sirens'.
i can only see the onesided nature of unbalanced sides getting much much worse (and slowing the whole zones fight speed down) with the introduction of teh tactical start, unless they increase the safety zone around hte bases to actually be safe rather than the current setup where neither base is 'safe' which sorta defeats the object to me.
Actually thinking about it, 2 things would make the hero base safer - get rid of the fence on the hospital corner and push the 'back' fence to the back of the hospital and have the drone move to there.
Cant comment on the villain one as i've never got closer than 10 yards of the drone perimeter (unlike the hero side where i've been attacked while collecting a reward), but it does have a hell of a lot of gun/mob cover.
@ExtraGonk
More than likely, but lack of chocolate this end nerfed my perception to sarcasm in forum posts xD
As to the topic at hand, my personal view is that empathy isn't just a nifty defender powerset, but an essential tool for negotiating the travails of modern life. Smooth's honesty is refreshing, and his acceptance of his nature is to his credit. I also suspect it will prove to be the key to him allowing everyone into his world - it certainly was for me. Acknowledging and rejoicing in your own nature is a wonderful thing, and allows you the freedom to empathise with anyone, whether a dear friend, or someone you don't know from Adam who is getting a little frustrated after some PvP shenanigans.
I'm possibly too far the other way - I'm incredibly thick-skinned when it comes to comments directed at me, but can get into quite a tizz if I feel someone else is upset. This is especially true when that other person is someone I know and care about, but even if it is the rendered avatar of someone I have never met, my protective instincts kick in, and I'll usually do a rapid-fire series of tells/PM's to a) see if the person is ok/needs to talk to someone, and b) to point out my displeasure to the culprit if I witness something awry.
I'm probably over-protective of the meek - I used to be incredibly withdrawn, but my the twists and turns of fate have turned me into an outspoken so-and-so, especially when I can communicate in a written mode. This probably makes me an interfering busybody, but I would rather risk taking the flak myself for butting in where it wasn't needed than allow someone who needs it to go without a friendly ear or a stout defender.
That doesn't mean I can't be petty or mean, or childish - far from it. All of those staples of the human condition are fully fledged parts of my make-up, but I try to limit their manifestations, and apologise if I do throw my toys out of the pram.
Meh, it's late, and I'm rambling. Time for some sleep methinks.