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Highly resisted by... what exactly?
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Epics.
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Highly resisted by... what exactly?
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Epics.
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Epics don't figure into the current PvP zones.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Recent experience in Warburg with Flitz has taught me to leave controllers to the blasters. MA has no ranged attacks and I simply couldn't get close enough to the storm or grav controllers to hit them. And I tried a good number or times with attacks cued to trigger when I moved towards them - not a single hit.
So I focused on the other scrappers - helping take down Chives and Midnight Agent - both experienced arena scrappers. Tiny Tank (invul? tank) was tough to damage but even then with concentrated attacks he went down as did Disco King senior and junior.
If either of the trollers ever went down - it sure wasn't because of me.
UNION @Flitz 50, Lead Hose 50, Red Rag 50
DEFIANT Rose Bloodthorn 34
VIGILANCE Captain Caledonia 20 - Yeah, I made toons on the French server coz we only had 4 back then (might have to transfer/recreate them on one of the US servers)
..and many more!
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The problem with Question is, he takes everything so damn personally, it makes intelligent debate (or as close as we'll get to it on here) next to impossible.
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Great. How are you getting through Whirlwind again? The fact that you don't know makes any further discussion pointless, not jut impossible.
Quickness isn't going to do jack for you against eight controllers stacking slows. I have a Controller who can personally deliver four or five, and with buffs I'll be able to double stack those. Your going nowhere.
But then, your not getting through Whirlwind anyway. You could stand back and shoot with debuffs lobbed on you, I'm sure the Controllers would like that.
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I'd have thought that you'd have known how quickly a Claws Scrapper can output damage to squishies, though.
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Not very quickly at all when he's debuffed up the wazoo and sitting in about fifteen slow fields. There we go ignoring facts again.
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MA has no ranged attacks and I simply couldn't get close enough to the storm or grav controllers to hit them.
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Only Claws and Spines can get around Whirlwind at that level. Theres no point in trying unless you have one of these powersets. A MoG will let you in, but then your facing enemies who will most likely have Psi damage, so your dead. You can stand back and shoot, but then your opponents can see your standing back and shooting and then here comes the debuffs, holds and slows. Your much better going to find something you can actually hit.
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Your much better going to find something you can actually hit.
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Agreed. So, that's just what I did. And I have to admit that I had a lot of fun going toe-to-toe with the other scrappers than trying to tag the trollers. In fact, I might even do it again sometime. 
UNION @Flitz 50, Lead Hose 50, Red Rag 50
DEFIANT Rose Bloodthorn 34
VIGILANCE Captain Caledonia 20 - Yeah, I made toons on the French server coz we only had 4 back then (might have to transfer/recreate them on one of the US servers)
..and many more!
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How are you getting through Whirlwind again?
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I may be wrong, but i was under the impression that each repulsed foe costed extra end for a 'troller running whirlwind. I may be the bloody minded sort, but just running at them 'till it drops seems like a valid strategy to me?
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Quickness isn't going to do jack for you against eight controllers stacking slows. I have a Controller who can personally deliver four or five, and with buffs I'll be able to double stack those. Your going nowhere.
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But that's really got nothing to do with the mez nerf that this thread started out disscussing. Sure, it may now be a "why 'trollers are overpowered" thread. But ultimatly there are allways ways round slows (mainly kinetisicst), and they aren't the issue at hand.
Personally, I'm reserving judgement 'till I've tried it. But the change doesn't bother me in principle *for PvE play*, as it just adds another edge to the game for a scrapper. Still, we shall see.
in PvP play, it may be a problem- again i'm reserving judgement- but given the difficulty that most defender sets face in PvP play I tend to favour anything that gives them a more active role.
Interesting discussion. The only thing that I noticed was that no one has mentioned the empaths secondaries. Not as useful as the controllers primaries but certainly a few holds, blasts and debuffs of their own.
not sure about running at them until the end runs out, im sure you'll be perma held then dead before that happens. It didnt add much edge to me fighting lvl 53 carnies, I was certain I was going to get held then dead when I saw a boss and the only time it wasnt perma was with BF's or if the hold missed - then it was run away and rest. never felt so weak as a scrapper - running from a single boss.
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I may be wrong, but i was under the impression that each repulsed foe costed extra end for a 'troller running whirlwind. I may be the bloody minded sort, but just running at them 'till it drops seems like a valid strategy to me?
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Eight Controllers on the team and no-ones buffing Endurance Recovery?
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But that's really got nothing to do with the mez nerf that this thread started out disscussing. Sure, it may now be a "why 'trollers are overpowered" thread. But ultimatly there are allways ways round slows (mainly kinetisicst), and they aren't the issue at hand.
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If the mez nerf makes Controllers more powerful, and they're already very powerful, surely thats the heart of the issue? Its a change that makes no sense because there were no issues with Controllers. They lost a bit of control and got more damage. Now theyve got some control back. If their getting another buff, what about the rest of who were underpowered in PvP?
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as it just adds another edge to the game for a scrapper. Still, we shall see.
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Yeah, it makes them need to shop for Break Frees for PvE, not just PvP. And buying inspirations has always been laugh a minute!
Our damage and resists already got nerfed. We don't really need anymore of an "edge".
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Recent experience in Warburg with Flitz has taught me to leave controllers to the blasters.
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Feck that...with Stealth and a Pet active I have to have Phase running to even get a lock on.
*mumbles*
Oh...they did that as well? Fair enough...no point in me playing PvP then. No point wasting 15 Breakfrees in the first minute of play.
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If they have Forts, that's one less /Rad or /Storm to worry about. Things are looking up! The more /Emps the are, the easier it gets, right? (Unless it gets to a point where they stick aura on autofire, and then it becomes an exercise in futility and we all go home for supper.)
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I'd probably go with this as my team build in an ideal world:
Illusion/Empathy -Moi, to buff everyone's endurance, add fear and confuse to the mix, and if I see you using Focus on someone you wont beat my healing rate.
Gravity/Storm -Lady White, so we can stand in her whirlwind, alot of Slow/Holding power in those sets too, plus toggle droppers.
Gravity/Bubbles -Cherry Drops, Hold and slows again, toggle droppers, Force Bubble and Detention Field, I'd probably get her to focus on a Spines Scrapper the whole match. And just to add - With Force Bubble you can only get in Range for Focus, Shockwave wont reach.
Illusion/Rad -Light Petting, More endurance buffs, -Def -Acc -Res -Dam all in two toggles. Then there's lingering Rad, say bye bye to any Regen Scrapper.
Illusion/Kinetics -Mimic, Speed buffs, Endurance again and ID gives resistance to knockback which to be honest was the only thing the Scrappers had going for them. Again -Regen in transfusion and if he wants someone on your team ain't gonna have much end. Fear and Confuse again.
Stone/Empathy -Lethargy, another healer, more endurance for all and that lovely Quicksand. I've seen how much mez he can stack myself, it's crazy.
Mind/Empathy -Jasmine, for that oh so brilliant Telekinesis, plus more healing power, and more endurance, and more mez resistance.
And if I'd have to take another, I'd take an Ice/Storm, for variety, not like it'd matter much.
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But you have to be in PBAoE range for Vengeance to work - and we already went over the problems with grouping together. Worst case scenario: they get Vengeanced and I SJ/GhettoJump away.
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For a start Quicksand is -jump, a Controller isn't going to lay it down for you to jump on, because you wouldn't, he's going to cast it on you. Grouping together would be a better idea, one Force Bubble and you're out of range to use Shockwave, no AoE knockback.
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Hover ain't that fast any more, and Group Fly is a good way to burn through endurance and fly like a particularly fat pigeon - shooting fish in a barrel. (That said, I wonder how useful Team Teleport would be in the new PvP zones.) I can cycle Focus just about fast enough on its own to keep someone spinning at least 50% of the time, I reckon - more if you add Shockwave in there. Question: when immobilised with a Spines attack, how does that affect player KB attacks on the same target?
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I've always had three slotted Hover on my Controller and even with ED that's not going to get affected much. It was always fast enough for me. Indeed you are correct, a Spines Scrapper's immobilise carries a -fly too, it'd be a bunch of Scrapper's best bet. But there you go again leaving things out - a group of Controllers is going to have Immobilise resistance - Clear Mind most probably, or Increase Density. Unless of course you meant to type -Fly rather than Immobilise.
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Destroyed by what, exactly? And it's my job to make sure I stay away from corners.
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After someone TKs you, you don't decide wether or not you're going to go into a corner - the Controller does. And you'd be destroyed my being Held and taking massive containment damage.
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And that's the Defender's job to look out for themselves - plus, a 'troller hunting a Defender is a 'troller who's not watching out for me.
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Yeah, I'm just going to forget there's a bunch of Scrappers struggling on the edge of our Force Bubble and run out to your Defenders, I wont just get the whole group to move forward too.
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As pointed out by myself, I'm not planning on doing this solo - I'll have 7 other teammates working with me. If all that effort has been concentrated on just taking me down, what the hell are my buddies doing - playing hopscotch?
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They're getting ready to log off because it's pointless trying to get through the Force Bubble.
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So many variables, so many possibilities. To turn the tables, if I could: what would your tactics be, as a Spines/Regen? That's not a challenge, I'm just interested in hearing your views.
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I'd shoot the Force Bubbler, who'd be stood next to three */Empathy Controllers laughing at me. After a few minutes of futile attempts and deaths I'd MoG and hit one with Ripper looking really badass by doing so, then die, then come back and go back to doing step one.
World of Jackcraft.
Where do I sign up?
(and based on previous experience, I think the trollers would have a slight edge, but I don't think it would be quite as one sided as most people on this thread think...)
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
Just wiat till that 8 man troller team comes across 4 dominators and 4 curputers I think they will get there [censored]'s handed to them on spikes. 
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Just wiat till that 8 man troller team comes across 4 dominators and 4 curputers I think they will get there [censored]'s handed to them on spikes.
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None of them have mez resist. Do any of them have Clear Mind esque buffs? I don't know.
World of Jackcraft.
Brack frees ahould do it the controlers will not be able to hold em and they wont be able to res the damage out put for long either.
It'd be closer I'd agree, but I'm not sure enough about the CoV archetypes to make a decision.
World of Jackcraft.
I think in the example given it really would come down to specific builds, players and tactics....
gonna be fun finding out though 
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
Well cold, radiation and dark corrupter secondaries won't give status protection but the others would. And I'd rather see 8 controllers vs. 8 Corrupters for hell made of debuffs from every angle.
Bringing the subject back on topic rather than the ZOMG this AT will pwn posts...
My L46 regen scrapper got held by an orange carnie Dark Ring Mistress (on Heroic) with one application of a hold...
Wow that integration is sure a great power...they've lowered it's healing, reduced the effectiveness of enhancements in it and now nerfed the mez protection.
I had enough of getting held with my blaster....really, really annoyed at this change.
And Syn, not everyone is always in teams... This game is supposedly just as easy to play solo (see advertising from Cryptic) yet Cryptic are trying to force us into teams
same thing happened to my Invul scrapper, one application of a hold got thru unyielding and acrobatics/combat jumping, the only reason I wasnt chain held was one missed. That was the reason for unyielding as far as I could tell - was almost impossible to get held, now its just end drain.
I have played a toon with no status resistance, but if I have powers designed to protect against these why should I be held as easily as someone with no protection? Completely idiotic change - tho im sure my grav/rad controller will like it.
I play my invuln scrapper every night (indeed, she's pretty much my main at the moment) and Since the changes I've been held once. (not including the times when i've forgotten my toggle!). I've fought Malta, Carnies, Knives and Nemesis since then too.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
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Gravity/Storm -Lady White, so we can stand in her whirlwind, alot of Slow/Holding power in those sets too, plus toggle droppers.
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8 characters in Hurricane (not Whirlwind...)? I think that's a tad optimistic. And FWIW, most of the toons you've given seem to be focusing - in your ideal world - on using their secondaries pretty much exclusively to be "uberising" the opposition. Hate to be the one to drop this on you, but they could do that before the mez nerf. Regardless, everyone knows the perfect 8-team controller setup is 7 Ill/Rads and a Mind/Storm. 
Interestingly enough, though, you don't mention /Sonic - who actually would spook me if I saw them in a huddle of 'trollers. Their ability to add (Sonic Barrier, Sonic Haven, Sonic Dispersion) and remove (Sonic Siphon, Disruption Field) resistance - that's before you include their ally -mez (Clarity) into it all - could seriously screw up my Claws/SR.
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For a start Quicksand is -jump, a Controller isn't going to lay it down for you to jump on, because you wouldn't, he's going to cast it on you.
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For some reason, you seem to think I'm going to be standing still. 
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Grouping together would be a better idea, one Force Bubble and you're out of range to use Shockwave, no AoE knockback.
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Aside: how usable is Force Bubble now, post-ED? Secondly, why does no-one on the Scrapper/Emp team have TP Foe?
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I've always had three slotted Hover on my Controller and even with ED that's not going to get affected much. It was always fast enough for me.
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I've had 3-slotted Hover before - it's not going to outrun a Hurdle+CJ combo over any distance other than dead-vertical, and that's before you factor in KB or -Fly.
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Indeed you are correct, a Spines Scrapper's immobilise carries a -fly too, it'd be a bunch of Scrapper's best bet... Unless of course you meant to type -Fly rather than Immobilise.
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Read again, Hobo - I was just asking what effect the Spines immobilize has on player KB. I know Spines has -Fly, but that's entirely incidental to the question I was asking.
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After someone TKs you...
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Gotta TK me first, and an undirected TK only serves to dump you out of range. Presuming that everyone's stood stock still in a Force Bubble as you suggested, I don't have to worry about a cunning Mind 'troller maneuvering me about.
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Yeah, I'm just going to forget there's a bunch of Scrappers struggling on the edge of our Force Bubble and run out to your Defenders, I wont just get the whole group to move forward too.
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In an ideal world, maybe - but people don't move together in military fashion in PvP for a number of reasons. And as I said, we won't just be TPing you out around the corner out of LoS, oh no, not for a second - and better yet, we won't TP the Bubbler away, that would just be rude. 
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They're getting ready to log off because it's pointless trying to get through the Force Bubble.
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Okay, pretend that I've invited teammates with some ability and imagination.
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I'd shoot the Force Bubbler, who'd be stood next to three */Empathy Controllers laughing at me. After a few minutes of futile attempts and deaths I'd MoG and hit one with Ripper looking really badass by doing so, then die, then come back and go back to doing step one.
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That's the Spirit.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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When Syn and the Question argue it gose on for days and days theres no stoping it.
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But at least you all have something to read, you ingrates.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love