Spango

Hey ho folks.

So, what with my degree picking up pace and all I've been a bit out of the loop for a while now. So this is me declaring a return to (semi) active duty with Rale et al and asking if there have been any major changes in ooohhhh... about a month and a half.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer, and yo to everyone I look forward to making my reaquaintances with.

Erm... yeah, cheers

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Why does everyone automatically go for Nerfs? Lets boost the SR a bit before the regen any further? He's had an utter hammering between the last 2 updates and ED.

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For me? Because the game is too easy- especially in the later levels. Ultimatly I think scrappers are balanced, but I would enjoy it more if we were balanced at a lower level- of course that's just my opinion.

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Had their day? A regen scrapper will kick an SR scrapper's ar5e up and down the streets of Warburg. I know, I've done it. Both in Warburg and in the arena. The latter can't match the former head to head.


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Yup, that's a fair assesment. An SR scrapper CAN take out a regen head-to-head, but it takes a fairly poor regen, or some dammn sneaky tricks... That said, Warburg isn't about head to head, and SRs near invunrability to secondary effects (which don't connect enough to stack) and holds (see 1) make them quite potent in ways regen isn't.

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Having said that I don't know how the SR performs in PvE. I do know my 42nd kat/regen can and has taken on 20 equal lvl mobs (rikti minions) and walked away without popping a signle insp. Which, imho aint too shabby. I've seen him survive when he's so surrounded by Crey I can barely see him (I lost count at 25 and there were LTs in that lot), although that one took a lot os insps to stay in the fight.

So I'm sorry I have to disagree, you go back to I3 and so have a different perspective. The I4 nerf hit when I was too low lvl to notice it and so my persepctive is almost purely I5 and whilst I realise why you may not enjoy your regen scrapper anymore he is still a very powerful addition to any team.

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As Ether has said- the gap has closed dramatically, SR in i3 really suffered while regen was kicking the legs off Fathim by themselves. Regen is probably still a very small amount better than SR- but quicken, scrapfiance and such make SR quite able to stand it's ground and outperform regen in circumstances. (mainly when secondary effects are the real bugger, Malta and Carnies being prime examples).

The thing that really [censored] me off about i3 was the way I would be regularly booted from teams that had just invited me when I turned out not to be regen. It was the best by such an absurd distance that any other type of scrapper seemed a waste. All in all, I think that the subsequent "nerfs" have done a great job of bringing all the scrapper sets into line and making that line at the right difficulty (well, it could stand to be a bit harder. I'd welcome a few more nerfs )

Coolio, call it 8;45 then? If you know anyone who needs it feel free to bring them.

Actually I have this badge mish on Rale, and have been meaning to post it up here for a while. Best time for me is probably tommorow arvo, anytime from 6-10 really. Let me now what suits you- and anyone else who wants in. (although I'm holding one spot for an sg buddy).

oh yeah, and bumpings against the rules man. Don't do it. Naughty, Naughty .

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Bah, you're just not trying hard enough - cr*p myself all the time. Especially when I'm fighting the Devouring Earth

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Huh DE are easy for scrappers.

End Drainers (Sappers/Carnies) on the other hand are nasty scary horrible critters. No end, no shields, no health

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Bah, that may be the case for you /regen etc... types. But us SRs are made of different stuff, a wobbly-flobby-whitish-green stuff, that fears no Carnies and Sappers.

Quartz on the other hand... no rock should be able to make grown men cry.

On-Topic; I think personal preferance is a big factor here (as allways), but the difference in Scrappers is that the real shaping comes from the secondary;

I love the sheer unpredictablity that is SR, sometimes an even-con minion can get three hits through Elude and make you eat floor making everyone in the room lose control of their bladder through hilarity. or that sometimes, sometimes, when the plantes are correctly aligned, you can be left standing when even the stone tank is eating floor!

Invinc I love for the mind set it creates. Any time you have to go look for more enemys so that you can stand a chance something is good!

DA, seems a bit to much like hard work for me. All those toggles. But i can see the attraction, if you like that kinda thing.

Regen I don't, and have never, "got". Seems a bit to linear for me- either your fine or you're dead. But it works for a lot of people- different strokes for different folks.

(please note, I am critising neither the players or the powersets at all here. Just trying to illustrate a point.)

Find what works for you, and go for it.

Well, It would validate me in removing arena from my active tabs.

Good job Dime.

There is, of course, a line between banter and outright abuse. To some degree that line is more easily enforced in a computer game situation, as swearing is banned- something that could never happen in real life (thank god). In practice it doesn't work out like that but;

If anyone at any stage feels abused they should report it, if anyone sees something on broadcast that seems like abuse they should report it. If people can get get closer to the line than others with friends etc.. then good on them, bt do it in private. As you say wordy, even when the recipiant understands it's just banter it can set a bad precedent for others.

That said, banter has it's place. It's aim can be to try and provoke a mistake (or series of) or to bond. In the first case it (hopefully) teaches some degree of restraint, as you see first hand the effect of losing your rag. In the second it's a friendship ritual, this is especially true in Britain- as our comedy shows (coupling, blackadder, red dwarf- all use insults to bring the leads closer). As the saying goes "the difference between the Ebglish and the French is the French are polite to their friends and rude to strangers. The english are polite to strangers but rude to their friends.".

It's all good as long as it's not done with the motive of gaing vicious enjoyment from humiliating or enraging someone. If someone is of the temperment that they will become riled up, and not learn from the mistakes this causes, then I question weather a PvP zone is a good place for them- and i refuse to believe that those insides the boundries of good taste should have to change to compensate them. As an addendum I would also add that, for the most part, cruelty is one aspect of human behaviour that is not "learnt" by kids- but innate. a proper moral sense, and social awareness takes time to develop.

For the most part, what you see on the forums is harmless sparing, practise almost. Which is why when people come in to complain about the mindset everyone feels attacked. If anyone was throwing insults at me in this forum as banter, I would feel offended by you jumping in to decry them and the whole concept as A) It would imply that i can't stick up for myself if I want to and B) That the whole concept of banter is wrong and, as one I buy into, I am by extension wrong. This is especially true for you and Raven, who have made it so abundantly clear you don't like PvP and what goes with it, one wonders why you feel the need to rub this in the face of thise that do.

((Re-reading the last part seems like an attack on you and Raven. It really isn't supposed to be. More an example. i simply fail to understand why it is people can't accept a system of action that doesn't appeal to them personally and just leave it alone.))

Fair point, and i think i read a little too much into your children comment. However it's more the idea that we should be trying to water down the competitivness that is inherant in us as humans, and vital to us to survive in a market based society.

But Agression != Violence, and that agains go double for the internet where you rarely know the physical whereabouts of the person rasing your hackles. Supervision may be one form of protection, but isolation can work just as well.

No real need to go on the defensive Wordy. Sarcasm is a fairly valid disscussion tool as long as it isn't overused. And FWIW I was only being half-sarcastic. There is a worrying trend to devolve competion from schools, and I seriously think it's doing alot of harm. Also i can't see how a degree of agrssion isn't inevitable, and even a good thing, in any competitive activity.

@Soulmaker, surely it's the logical progression of disscussion to move from area to area, especially when the original topic isn't really being defended any longer. (with other threads complaining the other way, and the abundance of counter evidence disproving the original point, it seems that there is no real inbalance of power between Heroes and Villans. Just personal opinion. Of course should you disagree then give us some thing to go on). But trying to justify real life behaviour based on in-game traits is a nasty path, it leads to griefing and kill stealing and begins to make Jack Thompson seem less crazy. Just say no.

Like, say, sport in schools? Competition is both healthy and natural, what is unhealthy is trying to shield ourselves from competition at every possible juncture.

Internet competition doubly so, there is no losss of face, and the kind of scaring that can bring in day to day life.

I think Geko was reffering to PvE play with that comment (average player etc...). Which is fair enough. The nerf hasn't really hit in PvE, with the holds being weaker, lower duration and/or cycled slower.

It is slightly noticable in the higher levels against some of the more potent mezzers (Rikti mainly), if you're on invincible and pushing a bit. But it's a minority situation.

Although this may well be worse foor tanks that have to bare the brunt of the aggro, I can't say.

Also, as an addendum to the level scaling. It may be that's it dependant on exemping/SKing, which would mean you wouldn't notice it in PvP zones. The arena could be used to test, or someone else might have already know. Q? (purely supposition with no facts to back up)

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What were you doing with your AoEs?

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its a pvp zone .. suck it up or don't go there

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Ah... the other reason I don't like PvP...


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I gotta ask Raven, given how little you like PvP, is reading this forum your punishment for something, Or do you just enjoy the misery?

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The villains are 'moaning' because they are at an extreme disadvantage. Because of the way the exemping system works, even though that hero is at the same level as you for combat, your powers are going to work a load better, because he's actually at that level, and you've been exemped down.

If they actually level-limited the zones instead of running the dump auto-SK/exemp system, the battles would be:

A) Fairer
B) Easier to work out if you've got valid balance.

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Well, yes, until a hero with a rich benefactor (Alt, Sg or whatever) comes in fully slotted. Given the number of >40s in paragon, and the relative sparcity of inf in the rogue islands- it will be heroes slotting SOs first.

So, at most, you'd push the situation back maybe a week while people leveled new alts exclusivly for PvP and then slotted them from the piggybank. Although i doubt you'd even do that, as the more dedicated PvPers would have seen a level cap in beta and started leveling a toon earlier.

What you would effectivly achieve is
A) punishing casual PvPers (ie. me, and most of my SG). Who are unlikely to keep alts at the right levels for long.
B) Punish anyone who hadn't previously leveled a high toon, less inf to support the new toon- and pres to earn too.
C) punish anyone who HAS leveld a high toon. As they have to wait for Recluses Victory to get into a PvP zone, with that toon. Which would be irksome.
D) Give the dedicated PvPers an even greater advantage. As their pre-leveled, fully slotted, PvP only alts have the run of the zone for a while. Learning the land, getting the temp powers, and pratising their techniques. I fully expect a dedicated PvPer to beat me, but I would like to have the option of trying to learn something from them, before they get THAT much of a headstart.
E) Completly fail to achieve the "fairer" zone.
F) Even if you could balance all the ATs perfectly (which I sincely doubt) you'd have to do it all over again when the villans picked up a full slotting of SOs. So really you gain nothing, but annoying a large chunk of the playerbase, and the people [censored]ing about the SO situation- WOULD STILL BE [censored]ING ABOUT IT.


Not to mention that if you take a look over the thread, many villans have said they have no problems against Heroes. I guess it all comes down to player perspective.

Not my favourite idea ever.

Lokks like you've got a full team allready. But I'll stick my name down as a sub in case anyone can't make it. If not- good luck guys and have fun.

I say stay and fight whatever.

But then I fully admit that my PvP ethos is in no way required in others. I will simply have more respect for people who stay even when they know they are going to lose. That said, I think running about is fine if you stay away from the safe zone- make them work for the kill.

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How are you getting through Whirlwind again?


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I may be wrong, but i was under the impression that each repulsed foe costed extra end for a 'troller running whirlwind. I may be the bloody minded sort, but just running at them 'till it drops seems like a valid strategy to me?

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Quickness isn't going to do jack for you against eight controllers stacking slows. I have a Controller who can personally deliver four or five, and with buffs I'll be able to double stack those. Your going nowhere.


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But that's really got nothing to do with the mez nerf that this thread started out disscussing. Sure, it may now be a "why 'trollers are overpowered" thread. But ultimatly there are allways ways round slows (mainly kinetisicst), and they aren't the issue at hand.

Personally, I'm reserving judgement 'till I've tried it. But the change doesn't bother me in principle *for PvE play*, as it just adds another edge to the game for a scrapper. Still, we shall see.

in PvP play, it may be a problem- again i'm reserving judgement- but given the difficulty that most defender sets face in PvP play I tend to favour anything that gives them a more active role.

Jeez Xen, the title nearly gave me a heart attack .

Have a great time and see you in a week, hopefully I'll get Rale up to a level where we can actually team again...though i somehow doubt it.

The solution is to create yourself an all rad sg. I've never played a rad anything- but i'd make up an alt and join. Sounds like a laugh!

I must say I have had nothing but positive experiences in side warburg so far. First time I went in I spent all my life running between the hospital and the beach (mainly due to TG and his merry band of psychopaths ), there was the usual trash talk- but I enjoyed it none-the-less and eventually got invited to a team. Not the most organised of teams, but it immediatly improved my experience ten-fold, I actually managed to pick up a few kills and really got into it. I ran up against another SR scrap (harvest moon?) and we spent a good long while trying to kill each other (you haven't seen comedy untill you've seen srs fight ), with her the eventual victor.

Came back later that evening with a coalition team and had another runaround, again the experience was fantastic. I realise that almost no-one is interested in my blow-by-blow account, but the point I am very slowly getting to is that I pretty much agree with everything TG has said- and wanted to thank him and his team for providing a real challange on the beach. Life is much more interesting when you're trying to leap that impossible hurdle- like TG and his .

The one thing I disagree with however is the running to safe zones. There is no loss to dieing in a PvP zone, so take what's coming to you. The safe zones are perfectly legitimate between fights to recover or go afk- but running to them when you're being beaten is a little pathetic.

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i went to warburd last night too its really fun i got battered they all ganged up on me i had no chance

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I just wanted to say thankyou fire ball, who ever you are.

You have improved these forums manifold .

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Created scraper toons with other sets and started them all in same area. At lvl 1 and 2 I gave them the recomended powers but no sloted enhancments and went to an area that you can find whites. yellow, orange badies. Picked fights with these to see how many I can take on before I am dead.


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Not the most rigerous of tests you must admit. SR starts very strong but rapidly falls away, regen starts weekly and grows in power alot. The sets are dynamic by there nature and all will be strong at some stages weak at others- the real test of weather or not a set is under/over powered is it's performance throughout all levels of the game.