Numerically, why pick Regeneration over Willpower?
By
AgentMountaineer,
Posted on: 2009-07-23 10:12 in Scrappers
*faceplam* here we go again. Must this be talk about every month.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
I like WP for concepts, regardless of numbers.
@Turbo_Starr
Well, I can't speak from experience here, but as far as I've heard, Regen is one of the top tier secondaries when balanced using SOs only.
When IOs are considered, and when facing multiple enemies, Willpower probably pulls ahead with its ability to reach softcaps, combined with some resistance and its high levels of regeneration from RttC.
To click or not to click. That is the Regen vs WP question.
@Rakin
"You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up they would pound each other behind the barn." - Mike Goldberg
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Willpower seems superior to Regeneration in every way. Why pick Regeneration over it for numbers sake?
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Because it isn't superior in ervey way.
False premise, means the rest of the post is pretty meaningless.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Willpower seems superior to Regeneration in every way. Why pick Regeneration over it for numbers sake?
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Because it isn't superior in ervey way.
False premise, means the rest of the post is pretty meaningless.
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Can you post how so?
I'd actually argue Regen has better mitigation than WP for some playstyles (read, mine). Of course, Regen also relies more on skill and lag, and doesn't have (what I consider) QoL features like complete mez protection, +perception and an aggro aura.
Willpower and Regeneration offer two very different playstyles.
With WP you set your toggles and then go slaughter.
With Regen you have to pay attention to your health and click your survivability.
With that said...an experienced Regen player can accomplish a very high level of survivability when (s)he gets the timing right on the sets click powers.
Willpower gets Quick Recovery at level 20. Regeneration, at level 4.
If I want to just tinker with a scrapper primary, this is a powerful recommendation for Regeneration. Willpower is only for those primaries I know already I am going to want to keep.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
i nevers invite regens to mah teams. they are teh gimp.
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i nevers invite regens to mah teams. they are teh gimp.
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Indeed, I could never accomplish anything decent on my own regen scrapper, so I shelved him.
As others have said, the playstyle is the biggest difference.
Regen forces you to keep track of both your enemy's health as well as your own and to know how to time both attacks and heals so as to have the right one available at the right moment.
Willpower is simply, turn the set on and run with it, you will either live or die.
Willpower does have the ability for allow for softcapped defenses (45% to all positionals) as well as decent Resistances (52% S/L) and Regeneration (60 hp/sec with one emeny in melee).
Essentially giving you most of the benefit of the Super Reflexes secondary (with the notable loss of the 20% global recharge bonus) combined with Massive HP and Endurance recovery.
Regeneration cannot come close to those Defense numbers however for many situations it doesn't need to.
Ultimately I look at it this way, against one enemy or small groups of enemies Regen works beautifully, however, against huge mobs (13-17 with more swarming is as fast as the minions drop) of opponents, a maximized WP build will probably do better than a maximized Regen build.
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Willpower seems superior to Regeneration in every way. Why pick Regeneration over it for numbers sake?
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Because it isn't superior in ervey way.
False premise, means the rest of the post is pretty meaningless.
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Can you post how so?
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Try looking at 10 second survivability. You can even use Sm/Le if you like.
Examine both with and without Dull Pain available.
Considering just yesterday you didn't even know the basic mechanics of RTTC I think you have some way to go before understand the stengths and weaknesses of the set.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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i nevers invite regens to mah teams. they are teh gimp.
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Indeed, I could never accomplish anything decent on my own regen scrapper, so I shelved him.
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I see what you did there. 44 AV's is childs play of course. And 4 AV's at the same time? Pfffft slacker.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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Willpower seems superior to Regeneration in every way. Why pick Regeneration over it for numbers sake?
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Because it isn't superior in ervey way.
False premise, means the rest of the post is pretty meaningless.
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Can you post how so?
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Try looking at 10 second survivability. You can even use Sm/Le if you like.
Examine both with and without Dull Pain available.
Considering just yesterday you didn't even know the basic mechanics of RTTC I think you have some way to go before understand the stengths and weaknesses of the set.
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You are aware you linked to my post of AGAINST ALL ODDS from the Shield powerset? I don't see anything in there about RTTC.
Ah crap I mis-read.
My Apologies.
Still examine 10 second burst damage. Show some working out.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
This is the kind of thread where someone makes a statement and taunts others to debate it. Nobody's actually looking for answers here. Nobody is going to change thier opinion as a result of this thread.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
WP is what regen used to be prior to the nerfs. You can basically jump into a big group of critters and not have issues. Regen cant do that every single spawn. Regen is just too much work to IO out to do what its should be doing. If instant healing were still a toggle things would be totally different right now. Currently the only advantage I see is getting QR earlier, that pretty much it. What good are click heals when you get slowed, or there is a lag spike? I would rather have constant level of defense/resistance with varied regeneration than some click heals I might not have time to use or that may not be up yet. For scrappers all my active toons are SR/WP/SD.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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i nevers invite regens to mah teams. they are teh gimp.
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Indeed, I could never accomplish anything decent on my own regen scrapper, so I shelved him.
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And yet a regen user started a thread where he took out 4 AVs....
waaaaaaaaitaminute....
Be well, people of CoH.
Aww man! Not this one again. Isn't about time they start airing new episodes and stop showing the same reruns over and over? *changes the channel*
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Regen has more room for buffs. When teamed and getting goodies from teammates, it can pull off more rediculous feats of survivability, as it has higher regen with effectively the same resists and defense at the extreme end of the scale.
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This is the kind of thread where someone makes a statement and taunts others to debate it. Nobody's actually looking for answers here. Nobody is going to change thier opinion as a result of this thread.
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This
If you don't like playing regen, well good for you. I'm going to keep play it as is, it is one of my fav sets. I'm not missing out if your not playing the set, so I don't care if you ever like it.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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This is the kind of thread where someone makes a statement and taunts others to debate it. Nobody's actually looking for answers here. Nobody is going to change thier opinion as a result of this thread.
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I don't know. I used to think WP was better than Regen, because (I thought) they had the same high end performance but WP, requiring less skill, was more forgiving. Of course, many people had a different opinion, and while I didn't agree with them at that time and still don't on some points now, it made me think and now I did a 180 on my stance.
... or did you just trick me into debating the statement you made ? 
Regen seems to be a better solo set, and WP a better group set. /shrug
I think regen needs some tweaking in an upward direction, but like all scrapper sets, it's pretty durn gud.
Willpower seems superior to Regeneration in every way. Why pick Regeneration over it for numbers sake?
1) Willpower RTTC and Regeneration Integration assuming facing one target are the same. However, RTTC pulls ahead when faced with multiple targets.
2) Willpower gets a permanent 30% HP from High Pain Tolerance and it gets a +Res All. Regeneration gets Dull Pain which needs a lot of slotting to get perma and you might hit the cap.
3) Willpower gets Smashing/Lethal/Psionic Resistance and Defense. Regeneration gets Instant Healing while good is a 90 sec duration with a 10 min 50 s recharge... so WP gets all those goodies everytime and Regeneration gets it approximately 35% of the time with slotting. In fact, it could be argued WP might be more survivable even when Regen has IH.
4) Regeneration has Reconstruction but even with that the mitigation is only approximately once every 30 seconds vs WP's constant mitigation.