Quote:
Due to a code issue, Resistance always resists -Res and -Damage debuffs. The problem with the Longbow Nullifiers is that up until a couple issues ago, their Sonic Grenades were flagged as Unresistable, which is why they devastated Electric Armor so badly. Nowadays, my /ELA brute just kind of ignores the debuff.
|
Originally Posted by Rejolt
Orly? I'll have to do some testing with that.
|
Global @Diellan - 5M2M
Mids' Hero/Villain Designer Lead
Virtue Server
Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
Blueside: Alex Rabinovich
Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?
Here's an idea for replacing Conserve Power:
Jump Start - Self Rez with optional PBAoE Stun similar to Soul Transfer or perhaps an END drain to all enemies in the area.
"Steady as a mountain, attack like fire, still as a wood, swift as the wind.
In heaven and earth I alone am to be revered."
- Motto on the war banner of Takeda Shingen (1521-1573)
If either of the CP powers gave 25% of your fury bar, but didn't prevent decay and had the same recharge. I might take them. Heck if clicking them made me lose all of my remaining endurance to explode into fireworks that had no actual affect on the situation other than looking cool and being another power to customize, I might actually take them. As they are now, though, I can't think of a single reason to ever take them on any ela build. I would totally take them on a scrapper though. Double CP would be pretty nice.
Quote:
This confuses me a whole lot.|
Originally Posted by Jorlain
If either of the CP powers gave 25% of your fury bar, but didn't prevent decay and had the same recharge. I might take them. Heck if clicking them made me lose all of my remaining endurance to explode into fireworks that had no actual affect on the situation other than looking cool and being another power to customize, I might actually take them. As they are now, though, I can't think of a single reason to ever take them on any ela build. I would totally take them on a scrapper though. Double CP would be pretty nice.
|
Since when does a Brute have fewer end issues than a scrapper?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
Id still end up skipping it, just like i currently have...|
Originally Posted by Raithnor_Mal
Here's an idea for replacing Conserve Power:
Jump Start - Self Rez with optional PBAoE Stun similar to Soul Transfer or perhaps an END drain to all enemies in the area. |
What conserve power needs to be replaced with is something more akin to:
Spark of life - Small self heal which surrounds the player in an electrical charge for a few seconds, capable of jumping to any near-by enemies (similar to chain induction).
ElA getting a self heal/+HP seriously imbalances things. If you want a heal in ElA, you have to forgo a pool and at lest two powers to get aid self and slot it to your needs (usually more than just four slots go into aid self for a +res set). If you give Ela a heal, I can come up with some pretty amazing builds that would outperform anything else out there, bar none.
ElA's sole weakness is a lack of +HP or Heal, it has NO other weaknesses. You can't just remove the sets weakness. And no, I don't agree the sets resistance numbers are subpar, I think they are right where they should be.
Quote:
I would consider its lack of any Defense to be a weakness. It has nothing to stack Defense buffs with and gets to take the brunt of any and all debuffs/mezzes as a result (and it doesn't get Fear and Confuse protection, like certain other sets I can name).|
Originally Posted by GeminiProject
ElA getting a self heal/+HP seriously imbalances things. If you want a heal in ElA, you have to forgo a pool and at lest two powers to get aid self and slot it to your needs (usually more than just four slots go into aid self for a +res set). If you give Ela a heal, I can come up with some pretty amazing builds that would outperform anything else out there, bar none.
ElA's sole weakness is a lack of +HP or Heal, it has NO other weaknesses. You can't just remove the sets weakness. And no, I don't agree the sets resistance numbers are subpar, I think they are right where they should be. |
As for the resists, it's only a whopping 0.5 scale increase (3.5 vs 3) over Fiery Aura in Smash/Lethal. F/C/E/N hops around a bit due to various weaknesses and strengths, but the magnitudes are similar (actually, FA's Fire resist is stronger than ELA's Energy resist; FA's cold resist is weaker than ELA's Negative; and ELA's F/C beats FA's E/N by 0.5 scale again). Energy gets good Psi Resist, though, and Fire misses out. They both have issues with Immob and KB, and they both get slow resist now. Fire gets Consume while ELA gets Power Sink. But Fiery Aura gets Healing Flames, one of the best heals in the game. For what? Giving up Psi Resist and having a weaker end tool?
Speaking of Psi Resist, how's about we look at the other Resist set. Again, ELA has only a 0.5 Scale increase over Dark Armor in S/L/F/C. It has the massive Energy advantage and the Negative Energy loss, while DA gets the reverse (though DA's negative resist is only scale 4). Dark gets scale 2 Toxic Resistance, though, and has much higher Psionic Resistance than Electric (5 vs 3.5); heck, its Psi Resist is even greater than its own Negative Energy Resistance. So, Dark Armor, which is pretty dang close to Electric in resistance numbers, also gets the best heal in the game. Oh, and +Perception, and hefty resistance to endurance drain (not as good as Electric, but 69.2% is nothing to scoff at), and stealth, and a damage aura, and a self rez, and two different mez auras...
So if strong resists == no heals, why do both Fire and Dark Armor have excellent heals?
Oh, the endurance advantage of Electric? True, "we all know" that Dark Armor gets its survivability in exchange for hefty endurance costs, and Electric loses out because of its endurance advantage. Doesn't really explain why Fire gets Consume and Healing Flames... And, oh, what's that? Regen and Willpower are both top-tier survivability sets and they get Quick Recovery? Uh...
Global @Diellan - 5M2M
Mids' Hero/Villain Designer Lead
Virtue Server
Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
Blueside: Alex Rabinovich
Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?
Quote:
Sonic Resonance's Clarity and Sonic Dispersion were swapped in I6, a full issue after they were introduced. So it's not entirely without precedent for them to swap powers... especially ones with such similar functions as Conserve Power and Power Sink.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
The developers have NEVER taken an existing AT set and revamped a power or switched the "rank" (See: Level obtained) of a power unless it was during a beta, NOTE: This is for an EXISTING AT that has it already. When /Elec goes to Scrappers/Tankers I fully expect a few modifications.
|
I remember Castle coming round during the last Fix ELA furor and suggesting a +Regen buff, and he hasn't said anything since. I wonder if he specifically put it on the back burner until ELA got proliferated blueside (like ignoring Psi Assault until he could address dominators entirely).
Global @Diellan - 5M2M
Mids' Hero/Villain Designer Lead
Virtue Server
Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
Blueside: Alex Rabinovich
Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?
Quote:
Pretty sure they did it with the taunt powers in tanks' secondaries to swap them with the attack above them. This was probably only in Issue 3 or 4, but still.
|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
The developers have NEVER taken an existing AT set and revamped a power or switched the "rank" (See: Level obtained) of a power unless it was during a beta, NOTE: This is for an EXISTING AT that has it already.
|
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Although I agree that Elec should not get a self-heal (green numbers!) I think it should get +HP at least. That resistance is quite iffy without some +HP to back it up.
41% resistance is equal to ~70% +HP, which means slightly higher than a slotted Dull Pain. Imagine if all you had for protection was your Dull Pain, without the healing part. Yup, that's your protection.
Or wait, you still have your endurance draining. Which works only if your enemies have 0 endurance and even then they can pull off an Inferno or Total Focus when they get a tick of end for a brief second. Even then, NPCs' "brawl" hurts like a wreight train to Elec.
I was suggesting earlier that a +HP bonus would be put into Power Sink to match Ice Armor's Energy Absorption, which gives +Def. Why +HP over +Res though? I think it wouldn't overpower the mitigation too much, since +30% hp means that you'll survive just 30% longer.
If that's not OK, if they want to make Elec unique, they should just emphasize the active defense factor of mitigation. But right now it just doesn't work in /Elec, at least not in its current form.
It really feels like Electric Armor should get Regen above all other types of mitigation. If the devs don't feel comfortable giving ElA more Resists, then give it Regen. Mostly because it prevents the devs from giving Brutes another Heal ability, allows them to improve the set without having to create another power outright, and (more importantly) seems to go with the theme of the set. Especially if that regen is put in Grounded. Or, hell, change Conserve Power into a +regen. Brutes don't get Regen as a set, and a clickie +Regen would be an absolutely unique solution for the archetype. Granted... not so much for Scrappers.... but still. I think it's a solution that warrants investigation.
If I was a Developer and had the time/resources to fix Electric Armor:
Disclaimer: While I have played a level 50 Electric Armor before, I personally don't have one.
Added Changed Removed
Lightning Field
Target:
- 8.34 Energy damage
- Endurance -0.03 PvE only
- -0.5 Endurance If target is a player
- +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) Raid mob (like Hami), Must hit at -20%
- +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only, not Raid mob (like Hami)
- -6% Recovery for 21 Seconds
Summary: Lightning Field is a Damage/Taunt/Mitigation Aura for Electric Armor. The current Mitigation provided by Lightning Field can be beefed up while staying inline with Electric Armor's unique Endurance Drain.
As I understand it the effects of Lightning Field pulse every 2 seconds. Meaning that the -6% Recovery will be stacked every 2 seconds a target is in range. Weak targets like minions and lieutenants will be long gone before that stacking recovery takes full effect, however the small -Recovery still helps. Harder targets that take time to defeat will be hit with varying levels of -Recovery up to -60% which should substantially increase Electric Armor's ability to Drain Endurance, without completely stopping enemy attacks.
Grounded
Self:
- RES(Energy) +9.375% for 10.25s
- RES(Negative) +7.5% for 10.25s
- RES(Endurance) +69.2% for 10.25s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- -15.578 Knockback, Knockup for 10.25s
- -6 Immobilize for 10.25s If NOT on a PvP map
- RES(Immobilize) +207.6% for 10.25s If on a PvP map [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- Regeneration +0.50 for 10.25s Effect does not stack from same caster
Summary: Basically just a lesser version of Fast Healing built into Grounded to provide some form of health regeneration for lower levels.
Power Sink
Self:
- +25 Endurance (after 0.25 second delay)
- Fury +0.05 If target is a Player, Boss, or better, and Rage < 70% BROKEN [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- +10% Hit Points for 180 Seconds Effect does not stack
- +1.11% Hit Points for 180 Seconds Effect only stacks 9 times
- Endurance -0.4 PvE only
- -10 Endurance If target is a player
- Recovery -1 for 4s (30% chance)
- +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) Raid mob (like Hami), Must hit at -20%
- +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only, not Raid mob (like Hami)
Summary:Bump this power up to level 28 after removing Conserve Power.
Increased Hit Points adds Pseudo-Resistance as well as Pseudo-Regeneration iirc.
Super Charge (Ok I am bad at names, so sue me...)
Gained at level 35 in the new open space.
Rather than listing effects, it would be easier to just describe how it should work.
Description: After a short animation, all targets (With a Target cap of 5) within a 10 foot radius get hit with an auto hit Point Blank Area of Effect. For every target hit, the user gains get healed for 5% of their base health. That way the most health regained from that part of the attack is 25% of base (375 HP iirc).
The next part gets tricky. Think of that first effect as a multiple target Chain Induction. The first AoE is a 100% chance to hit. 5 'Chain Induction'-like pets then jump from target to target (75% chance to jump each time) which restores 5% Health to the user (Brute, Tank, whatever) everytime there is a sucessful jump. I am thinking...45 second recharge?
Conclusion: While all of the presented things in affect at once may be ovepowering, a few of them could be put into the set to beef up its Mitigation. I dunno, just my thoughts on the matter...
Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)
I guess we close this thread now.
Or at least change it to.... is the Conserve Power change enough? lol
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
Quote:
Wow, I didn't even see this until now. Sorry, I got the term PBAoE confused for just AoE. No need to explain the different types (as i already know them). I just got mixed up.
|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
No. PBAoE = Point Blank AoE. There are a few PBAoEs that require targets. Thunder Strike is one. Most don't.
Volcanic Gasses is not a PBAoE, it is a drop, an object you summon and place on the battlefield. Footstomp, Lightning Field, Hand Clap, these are PBAoEs. Fireball is a Ranged or Targetted AoE. There is no such term as a Targetted PBAoE, although Thunder Strike does kind of fit that description. |
Quote:
Are the devs talking about anding a heal or regen to consnserve power for brutes? it would certainly make good swnse.
|
Originally Posted by Rejolt
I guess we close this thread now.
Or at least change it to.... is the Conserve Power change enough? lol |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Diellan_
I would consider its lack of any Defense to be a weakness. It has nothing to stack Defense buffs with and gets to take the brunt of any and all debuffs/mezzes as a result (and it doesn't get Fear and Confuse protection, like certain other sets I can name).
As for the resists, it's only a whopping 0.5 scale increase (3.5 vs 3) over Fiery Aura in Smash/Lethal. F/C/E/N hops around a bit due to various weaknesses and strengths, but the magnitudes are similar (actually, FA's Fire resist is stronger than ELA's Energy resist; FA's cold resist is weaker than ELA's Negative; and ELA's F/C beats FA's E/N by 0.5 scale again). Energy gets good Psi Resist, though, and Fire misses out. They both have issues with Immob and KB, and they both get slow resist now. Fire gets Consume while ELA gets Power Sink. But Fiery Aura gets Healing Flames, one of the best heals in the game. For what? Giving up Psi Resist and having a weaker end tool? Speaking of Psi Resist, how's about we look at the other Resist set. Again, ELA has only a 0.5 Scale increase over Dark Armor in S/L/F/C. It has the massive Energy advantage and the Negative Energy loss, while DA gets the reverse (though DA's negative resist is only scale 4). Dark gets scale 2 Toxic Resistance, though, and has much higher Psionic Resistance than Electric (5 vs 3.5); heck, its Psi Resist is even greater than its own Negative Energy Resistance. So, Dark Armor, which is pretty dang close to Electric in resistance numbers, also gets the best heal in the game. Oh, and +Perception, and hefty resistance to endurance drain (not as good as Electric, but 69.2% is nothing to scoff at), and stealth, and a damage aura, and a self rez, and two different mez auras... So if strong resists == no heals, why do both Fire and Dark Armor have excellent heals? Oh, the endurance advantage of Electric? True, "we all know" that Dark Armor gets its survivability in exchange for hefty endurance costs, and Electric loses out because of its endurance advantage. Doesn't really explain why Fire gets Consume and Healing Flames... And, oh, what's that? Regen and Willpower are both top-tier survivability sets and they get Quick Recovery? Uh... |
Replying to this is probably moot due to the recent changes, but while I agree with everything you said, Elec has near total immunity to slows and -recov/drains. Dark somewhat resists -recov/drains but nearly as good as ela. And FA is a sitting duck for them.
Now that we have a power that if unchanged can be made a perma -end consumption/+regen and heal every 30 seconds, I can totally forgo aid self in all of my builds and replace that pool with hasten. Fitness/fighting/leadership/speed seem to be the pools for a super ela brute now. Definitely will put /DA and /FA a leap year behind now and be up there with SR/WP/SD in the super build category.
We can now have a brute that heals, ignores almost every type of status effect, resists everything but toxic really well, and has a godmode that can be totally used without fear with the new fear very often. =)
The only thing that should EVER kill you with this brute is a defense failure that coincides with the same second your godmode wears off and before you fire up the heal/powersink to get back to fighting shape. Scarily good. =D
Quote:
Click here and it'll all make sense.
|
Originally Posted by Talionis
Are the devs talking about anding a heal or regen to consnserve power for brutes? it would certainly make good swnse.
|
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Quote:
Definitely can't see that happening. Think about it.
|
Originally Posted by Computer
Lightning Field Target:
|
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Eh.... it cycles every 2 seconds, at -6% each for 21 seconds, if something stays in long enough it'd be -60% recovery to mobs in melee range only if you let it stack. |
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
[/LIST]Definitely can't see that happening. Think about it.
|
I'd probably still do a 30% chance for -100% recovery for 5 seconds for a less consistent but stronger debuff when it fires, but the way that's listed you'd have a similar situation to what you have now, only it would work better against higher level mobs as well; there'd be a small tick of recovery, and the mob would use an attack before the rest of the endurance is sapped away by the -3% end.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
Quote:
Could you explain your point of view? I did think about it, which is why I posted it. |
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
[/LIST]Definitely can't see that happening. Think about it.
|
Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)
Orly? I'll have to do some testing with that.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.