I just hope that I don't lose CP from the Tank and Scrapper APP. I have a few planed builds that use it. My SR scrapper and old regen build lived off that power.
My shield brute still made that she can't get access to it.
If the Dev won't replace the power Can't they make that CP at least be mutually exclusive. ( can't that both)
And give all brute and access to CP
NeoSaturn-L50 Kat/Regen Scrapper
Paragon Family Swift
NeoSaturn's Deviations
Tonal I agree with your thoughts on some of Ela changes and have even teamed with you.
I am a big fan of Elec and it is the set I use the most COV side.
The biggest problem I have with Electric armor is watching my Defense go deep red when facing def debuffing foes. From Lethal attacks, LB etc. I feel the the failing of the Resistance sets is defense debuffs. Suddenly you taking twice the incoming damage you should. When things get bad your so far into the red that popping a couple purples will not get you out of the red. I think this is a subtle change that has a lot of effect.
Think how Defense based sets would feel like if some damage type as common as lethal doubled the incoming damage of the few hits that did sneak through just ouch. Thats basically what Electric suffers from. That and poor play near LB resistance debuffers. Its a dynamic of Resistance based sets that I think few think about.
Which is why I agree with Tonal that it feels like it needs 5-7% more S/L. If Resistance is its game then lets have some more. Couple that with a defense debuff resistance and I think those small changes would be a lot like the small changes that have improved INV.
As far as Ditching CP I am a big fan of keeping it. It helps me bridge 28-35 with less problems. It also allows me to go full tilt and focus on recharge (not that I don't enhance END at elat 50%) deal with END demanding sets with more comfort. Live past a blown or poorly timed PS. CP helps with Hasten Crashes not to mention Hasten and Rage twin crashes.
While hero side I would have other pool options and would not bother with EPP CP most of my NON IO tanks take. Freedom even I cannot burn END fast enough to need CP PS and CP.
As far as adding a heal to Ela I do not see the need. I want City of power sets to have some flavor and not all be mixed WP/INV versions. I like that it has no heal and rarely use Greens. I also run my Brutes with out AID self but I do bolster it with Tough as I do all my Brutes. I also routinely skip Power surge since I rarely need to use it where i do have it.
I like Electric beacuse it does some things very well. My SS/Elec loves fighting Rikti ok they all do but this one I have the most fun doing it. My BA/Elec Creams Carnies. There are a lot of foes Electric faces well. Mu and Sappers Muahahaha.
Ok we blow against Toxic but I can live with that hole. Thats what INSP are for and its not that common.
We do not do well vs. Crimeoran Defense debuffs but my INV also would notice the debuff problems (not as bad) before the recent fix.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
I would have chimed in earlier but I have been on vacation.
One thing I loved about Electric was going to Bloody Bay and getting my Shivan and time badge at L22.
There is good to Electric. It has some problems too. Just because I like I do not want to come off as saying LTP Electric to those who have problems. I too would enjoy some tweaks but I am afraid the ones I am looking for are far different that most of what I have read. I think a collection of smaller tweaks like INV got will be of the most benifit all around. Namely getting the same Defense debuff resistance and a small S/L resistance increase.
While I would not complain about Regen in Grounded etc I think the solution to Elec's current problems while keeping it some of its unique value require a different approach rather than green numbers.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Here's the thing when you are looking at Elec vs other armors. All other Armors have layers, elec does not.
Electic has Resistance and yes some mitigation from End Drain + Elec Field but considering the rest ELA is very thin:
Stone: Def, Res, Regen, DP clone
Invuln: Def, Res, DP
WP: Def, Res, +Regen, +HP
Shield: Def, Res, +HP
DA: slight Def, Res, mega Heal, Fear, Stun
FA: Res, big Heal, a little fear from Burn
SR: High Def, Res
EA: Def, some Res, End Drain like ELA but with a heal, Tier 9 with +HP
Like I said Everything else has layers and ELA does not, it is clearly lacking. The best possible fixes for ELA probably lay in the area of +Regen, +HP and/or heal.
Possible solutions IMO are:
1) Add Fast Healing component to Grounded and +HP to
Power Surge
or
2) Clone the EA's end drain, adding that heal to ELA's end drain
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As far as Ditching CP I am a big fan of keeping it. It helps me bridge 28-35 with less problems. It also allows me to go full tilt and focus on recharge (not that I don't enhance END at elat 50%) deal with END demanding sets with more comfort. Live past a blown or poorly timed PS. CP helps with Hasten Crashes not to mention Hasten and Rage twin crashes.
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Even if CP wasn't removed, it should straight up be MOVED to lvl 35 and have Power Sink brought down to lvl 28 (just like EA). If End Drain is suppose to be one of ELA's stronger forms of "damage mitigation" then why the heck don't they place our ONE major form of end drain earlier in the set!?! Having PS at lvl 35 is simply...stupid.
Personally, I think ELA should have PS moved to lvl 28, and have CP removed and replaced with a Dull Pain clone power (just to keep things simple...dev's like simple guys). I think those two changes alone would pretty much bring ELA up to par with other Brute secondaries.
I know someone mentioned "defense debuff" resistance a couple times, but I just don't see how that's going to make ANY impact. To be honest, you'll need a really GOOD portion of defense debuff resistance to feel ANY noticeable difference at all, especially on a set that has ZERO defenses to begin with. So unless ELA is going to get some sorta +defense, and then defense debuff resistance OVER 50%, then that defense debuff resistance is simply a horrible idea.
Here is a list of the best ideas I've heard so far (and no, I'm not asking for all of them, just listing the good ones lol)
[u]BEST IDEAS[u]:
<ul type="square">[*] Enhanceable +HP added to Grounded (Clone of True Grit from Shields)[*] Enhanceable +Regen added to Grounded (Clone of Fast Healing, would recieve +res to -regen)[*] Replacing Conserve Power with a Dull Pain clone.[*] Replacing Conserve Power with Shocking Grasp or Short Circuit (more focus on end drain for protection).[*] Adding scaling +Def to ELA (the more HP you lose, the more you start to "avoid" attacks, similar to SR's scaling +res, but ELA gets +defense instead of resistance.) With this suggestion would also come decent +res to defense debuffs, around 55% or more.[*] Giving Static Shield +Regen, equivalent to Regen's Integration, also adding -regen resistance appropriately.[*] Replacing Conserve Power or Grounded (giving grounded's attributes to Static Shield) with a self heal power, similar to Reconstruction from Regen.[*] Adding 5-7% base +res to Smash/Lethal to Charged Armor[/list]
If they picked even just a "couple" of ANY of the ideas mentioned above, ELA would instantly become as good as the other sets out there.
All fo these, to me, appear to be easy enough to do. We have to remember, when the developers look into "balancing" a set, the last thing they want to do is "more work than they have to." Just remember that when you are giving suggestions. The reason I've chosen the ideas above, are they are the "easiest" for the dev's to accomplish without any difficult programming or creation of "new" powers. They are simply powers which already exist, and would pretty much just have to be "copy/pasted" over (simply put).
For example, here's what Castle PM'd me on a suggestion I passed by him awhile ago on buffing a different set. I had some "radical" ideas, that would have required "new power development" and such:
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We can't make changes that drastic to a powerset.
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Basically, we gotta KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid....if we wanna stand a chance at having the set buffed. At this time, the dev's don't/can't spend too much time reworking an entire set just to make it viable. They'll take the shortest and easiest route to make it work. If adding +HP, +Res, or even a Heal to a set will make it inline and viable with other sets, then that's what they'll do, and it will be a simple change.
The only change I've listed in the "best list" that I think may be a little on the "drastic side" would be the scaling +Defense idea. It's a "little" out on the limb, but I don't think it'd be too far out as to make it impossible to work into the set, it'd essentially be the same thing that SR has, but +Defense instead of +Res, so in my mind, it could be workable.
Also, even if NONE of these changes are ever made and nothing is ever really done to "fix" ELA...the ONE thing the dev's should at least do, is swap the level at which ELA attains Power Sink. ELA should get Power Sink at lvl 28 and CP at lvl 35, period.
Nice write up there DarkMaster, but I think the change will come to CP. For the obvious reason that tanks and Scrappers will not be allowed to get 2 of the same power (they get CP in there epic pool) So that power will be changed, and eventually would be for the brute version too. Thats really the only change I can bank on. Everything else would just be a nice add on.
If you read Sunstorms latest post you will see what I mean:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....v=#Post13796039
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
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Why would we want this? So when the power is NOT up, we can do just as poorly as we do now? No thanks.
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Are you serious? It's increases your HP which is the same as providing +resis, and it would be very similar to Dull Pain.
I don't know about you but going from 1700 HP to 2200-2500 HP is pretty damn effective. Not to mention people can already perma-DP.
Now, do you have a suggestion or you just here to be a negative nancy? 
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Sounds good to me, lets have it!
Considering how much I follow the fix electric threads of any type I'm surprised I missed this one suggestion:
Adding scaling +Def to ELA (the more HP you lose, the more you start to "avoid" attacks, similar to SR's scaling +res, but ELA gets +defense instead of resistance.) With this suggestion would also come decent +res to defense debuffs, around 55% or more.
----
/signed. However... I'm sure it would take some time to tweak to make sure when/if the +def would kick in.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
The amount of defense added would have to be fairly insignificant until it hits very low on the Health bar. If done wrong... I could see Elec becoming a crazy monster that's probably worse than WP.
"What? My health is going down? Oh, look at that!"
*wiff* *wiff-wiff*
"And my health is back up. Oh, it's going back down again."
*wiff wiff wiff-wiff-wiff wiff*
"And we're back. AV time."
The problem with electric armor is that unless you're facing energy attacks, you're still taking a massive amount of damage from a heavy hitter's smashing/lethal alpha attack (with our without tough).
SR was all defense and was given scaling resists (except to Toxic and Psi) to help somewhat with Sudden Death Syndrome. Electric Armor is all resists so scaling defense (say 5 percent at 50 health, 10 at 20 health per toggle armor could work.) would be a neat otherside of the coin.
One issue I get is if an attacker uses -Res powers... oy. Longbow Sonic Grenades sometimes double and triple stack their effect if you stand in them. I wish there could be a "resistance to -res" effect for ELA.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
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The problem with electric armor is that unless you're facing energy attacks, you're still taking a massive amount of damage from a heavy hitter's smashing/lethal alpha attack (with our without tough).
SR was all defense and was given scaling resists (except to Toxic and Psi) to help somewhat with Sudden Death Syndrome. Electric Armor is all resists so scaling defense (say 5 percent at 50 health, 10 at 20 health per toggle armor could work.) would be a neat otherside of the coin.
One issue I get is if an attacker uses -Res powers... oy. Longbow Sonic Grenades sometimes double and triple stack their effect if you stand in them. I wish there could be a "resistance to -res" effect for ELA.
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Scaling Def could be nice, Still think it won't save you on the ITF. Unless it came with def resist as well.
We need an all Energy damage TF. 
I will be sad if it just get a straight port with out getting looked at. I mean it didn't get looked at when it was ported to stalkers.
Decided in i16 to make an BS/elec scrapper(Parry oh hells yeah) and DA/elec melee tank(which I want CP APP on) 
NeoSaturn-L50 Kat/Regen Scrapper
Paragon Family Swift
NeoSaturn's Deviations
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We need an all Energy damage TF.
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The LGTF is pretty good for an /ELA Brute. Lots of energy damage being slung around and if you have Tough...those huge swords hurt a little less.
[ QUOTE ]
We need an all Energy damage TF.
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean like the LGTF?
As to the ITF... yeah... nothing says loving pain like -50 defense after the first wave of swords smacks you. Scaling defense wouldn't mean much at that point without debuff resistance.
EDIT: Sigh... beaten to the LGTF comment!
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We need an all Energy damage TF.
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean like the LGTF?
As to the ITF... yeah... nothing says loving pain like -50 defense after the first wave of swords smacks you. Scaling defense wouldn't mean much at that point without debuff resistance.
EDIT: Sigh... beaten to the LGTF comment!
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Oh yeah the LGTF, That tf never leaves a lasting impression on me , Every time i do one seem to me like Fail, port, kill Ebs, fail, kill hami, port, kill AVs. well that 40 minutes was fun
NeoSaturn-L50 Kat/Regen Scrapper
Paragon Family Swift
NeoSaturn's Deviations
Perhaps you shouldn't speed through the TF then.
If /ela has to be fixed why doesn't /fa? What about /da? That can tend to be weaksauce too.
I like my /ela for specific things. I tear through paper missions like nobody's business on my DM/ELA. My NRG/ELA is fun for different reasons even with the changed ET.
If I want to herd things up I play my /wp or my /sd.
One thing that would be nice to have are more +resistence IOs so the S/L numbers can be brought up a bit.
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If /ela has to be fixed why doesn't /fa? What about /da? That can tend to be weaksauce too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhm....no. Both FA and DA are FAR from "weaksauce". If yours feels "weaksauce" then that's a user error. FA becomes just about as good as ELA after it takes tough, only it has a heal that recovers 50% of it's HP every 15 seconds...and DA, DA is POWERFUL when played/built correctly.
ELA has it's HUGE and glaring weaknesses and drawbacks. All of which have been mentioned in this thread alreayd, so I will not waste the time to go back and mention them a 20th time.
ELA needs a buff, end of story.
I don't see anything wrong with /FA. Sure the numbers are similar to /ELA but /FA as a self-heal and is focused more towards providing additional damage.
/DA doesn't need much help either. It's go the best heal in the game (even though it could use a minor adjustment; endurance cost should be balanced around enemies hit and not a flat rate) along with some outstanding mitigation in OP and CoF.
Sure both sets lack a Tier 9 and perhaps a mechanic should be instituted that allows these Rezes to be utitlized without defeat, sorta like Howling Twlight from Dark Miasma.
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I like my /ela for specific things. I tear through paper missions like nobody's business on my DM/ELA. My NRG/ELA is fun for different reasons even with the changed ET.
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I meant to comment on this before but forgot.
I've stated many times that ELA is a great set for soloing but that shouldn't be the only metric to balance a set.
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I don't see anything wrong with /FA. Sure the numbers are similar to /ELA but /FA as a self-heal and is focused more towards providing additional damage.
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/ELA has a god mode and is focused more towards providing additional endurance.
Well I doubt /ela will get a buff anytime soon. How about this as a solution:
- pair it up with a primary that helps fill the hole or take a power pool like medicine.
Stone melee offers mitigation in tremor and fault. DM comes with a self heal and a nice fear power. Aid self allows you to heal yourself.
I don't remember a time when a power was removed from a primary or secondary set. I'm sure it has happened I just have the memory of a goldfish.
Scroll up a bit and you'll see my list of sets offering mitigation for elec. This just means that an intelligent player is relying on their primary to close the holes of the secondary - holes that you don't have in other sets - try rolling a fire/elec and let me know how great electric armor is then.
Electric Armor has good form of mitigation (resistance_, with a poor attempt at a second form (end drain). If Endurance drain was elevated, it might help, as would adding another form of mitigation, or raising resistance to higher levels.
There is also a post further up comparing the primary and secondary means of damage mitigation offered in various sets.
Well you can always slot the kinetic combat chance for knockdowns if you go the fire route. Or use inspirations or the T9 / DA in overwhelming situations.
Anyway I understand and assumed someone had already covered it.
Good luck in getting this changed. I think it was probably years before /inv was changed and I have no idea if it's what people wanted in the end.
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Well you can always slot the kinetic combat chance for knockdowns if you go the fire route. Or use inspirations or the T9 / DA in overwhelming situations.
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Absolutely. Electric Armor can be made to work with intelligent slotting. I don't believe electric armor is worthless, and I wouldn't be pushing for changes if I didn't already enjoy the set. However, when you apply the same methods of mitigation to other armor sets that already outperform electric in most situations, you wind up with a much stronger character.
I run ~30% Melee defensive builds on my electric brutes (yes plural). In moving electric armor over to tanks/scrappers, who already have conserve power, we have a unique opportunity to get around the 'cottage rule', and just about any other power in its place would be a welcome addition, especially if conserve power gets moved to Mu mastery.
This is why I believe that now is the best time for the set to be looked at, because after the proliferation, you have a (hopefully) much-greater playerbase with pre-existing builds.
My EM/ElA uses Fences>PSink as her opener, and Lightning Field to keep them down. Single target she also has Mu Lightning to slap them with another -10%
The armor alone works very well for end drain. It doesn't suffer from Electric Blaster-itis in that it actually mitigates damage and keeps you alive, whereas an Ele/Ele or Ele/EM Blaster is risking it all to get in and drain.
Short Circuit would be nice in the set(s), and thematic. It'd also allow heavily single-target sets to have a PBAoE to work with. Power Boost would also be excellent in Conserve Power's place, allowing people to optionally build for secondary effects if they want.
Asking for additional health or regen might break the set into "oh god why" land and make it too powerful. Granted, I think every armor set should, in one way or another, live up to Granite in it's field of expertise. Right now, ElA and EA are good at drains, but they should honestly be BEST at drains, so much that it allows Tanks/Brutes to mitigate alpha. Scrappers can use the drains offensively to cripple large groups.
Endurance drain is a powerful tool, except against AVs/Heroes. Readjusting the set should be approached cautiously...