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It may seem that way, but what does the description for regeneration say? I'm at work, and so if someone could quote from the ingame description that would be awesome, but I got this from Paragon Wiki:
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Regeneration lets you regenerate more quickly from damage and effects. Regeneration offers almost no actual damage resistance, but your Hit Point and Endurance Regeneration can become so incredibly fast, that your wounds heal almost instantly. Those who possess this power set have little downtime, but risk the effects of spike damage.
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If I remember correctly that is the quoted description text from in game. I have a mind like a steel sieve, however, so anyone with access to the game feel free to correct me.
My point is that the original intent was that burst damage was clearly Regen's hole. It isn't a hole for other sets like SR and Invuln, since the damage has to land for it to take down an SR scrap, and is resisted for an Invuln scrap.
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I don't remember what the original in-game description for Regen was (I can probably look it up somewhere) but I do remember what the description for SR was: SR in the in-game text description was claimed to have *no* weaknesses: its defenses were explicitly stated to work against *all* attacks. That was also false, because the guy who wrote those had little or no idea how the powers in the game actually worked. Alone, out of context, those descriptions are not especially reliable without significant corroboration.
Regardless of the original design intent of Regen at launch, it is unambiguously true that -regen was added to the PvE game as a specific foil to Regeneration. I specifically remember discussions at the time in which it was pointed out that -regen was practically non-existent (while -Def was highly ubiquitous) and having a dev (Jack, I believe) point out (either in a PM or on the boards) that that was going to change, deliberately so. Whether it was done to the degree that was desired, or ended up too high or too low, is a separate debate.
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It doesn't need Slow Resistance because it has Instant Healing.
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Care to explain this? It makes no sense at all.
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My guess is that he meant Integration (and I would add Fast Healing). Regen is never helpless. Weaker yes, but I can't think of a single situation in the game where Regen gets all its protection taken away.
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I believe he meant to say "Recharge Resistance" instead of "Slow Resistance", with IH being a click and unaffected by recharge debuffs.
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That's just blatantly wrong. Because IH is a click, it's affected by -recharge. It's got a longer duration, so the -recharge isn't going to have an immediate effect upon survivability, but, as soon as you use any of the click powers, you're going to have severely diminished survivability because the power is going to be coming back in a longer period of time.
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Yes. Thanks for the correction Umbral. That will teach me to post literally 3 minutes after waking up. 
I can only claim I might have been having a flashback to toggle IH and some severe dementia regarding the wording. heh.
My interpretation of his using "slow" instead of "recharge" would still apply, though I noticed he has recently quantified his reasoning by inferring that IH could be used to negate the effects of recharge debuffs because it has a long recharge anyway, but lasts 90 seconds - enough to get you through a fight where -recharge has been applied.
I don't know that I agree completely with this, as Recon and DP affected my DM/Regen's survivability much more than IH(click, not toggle, 
) being in effect, and they are what will be most noticably affected by -recharge. I will admit to not having played my /regen toon for quite some time, and so I may be incorrect from a numbers standpoint.
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I don't remember what the original in-game description for Regen was (I can probably look it up somewhere) but I do remember what the description for SR was: SR in the in-game text description was claimed to have *no* weaknesses: its defenses were explicitly stated to work against *all* attacks. That was also false, because the guy who wrote those had little or no idea how the powers in the game actually worked. Alone, out of context, those descriptions are not especially reliable without significant corroboration.
Regardless of the original design intent of Regen at launch, it is unambiguously true that -regen was added to the PvE game as a specific foil to Regeneration. I specifically remember discussions at the time in which it was pointed out that -regen was practically non-existent (while -Def was highly ubiquitous) and having a dev (Jack, I believe) point out (either in a PM or on the boards) that that was going to change, deliberately so. Whether it was done to the degree that was desired, or ended up too high or too low, is a separate debate.
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Huh. Pwn'd.
Well, since you've trumped my blatant rhetoric with actual evidence to the contrary, I suppose I could cling stubbornly to my later point that the game has changed even more since I4 (with respect especially to the I5 changes to IH and Integration), but that argument's a little too subjective for my taste, and so I think I'll bow out at this point and find more productive ways to waste time at the office.
Like actually doing some work.
'Been fun, all!
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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From a game design point of view, the resistance should not be too strong as to negate the debuff.
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Agreed. I certainly wouldn't give as much -regen or -recharge resistance as Super Reflexes has -defense resistance. But it sometimes seems like any -regen simply TURNS IT OFF. I find the binary nature of it annoying. I'd like it to debuff my regen instead of simply turning it completely off.
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This is what I am trying to achieve, nothing huge like a 95% debuff resistance but maybe a 40 to 60% resistance for regeneration and a 20-40% resistance for recharge debuffs.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Out of curiosity, did you send the letter yet?
hmmm, wishlist i guess...
i think QR should get an innate -end debuff resist
i think FH should get an innate -regen debuff resist
i think Integration should get -regen debuff resist
i think Resilence should get innate -recharge debuff resist
...
also i'd like to see a fix in Recon so that +heal bonuses actually effect it, either move the tox resist in it to somewhere like Integration or find a way for it to work as is
...
i'd also like to see Integration fit'd with a fear protection, and i'll comment on this with pop culture refferances as examples,... take for example the tv show HEROES, i'm sure we can all agree that the charractor Clair Bennet is a */regen, and it is clearly shown that she is constantly pushing herself up and over the edge even to the point of killing herself over and over, it's evident that the innate sense of self preservation, i.e. fear, is not prevelent in a regenerator, it may be a morbid point of view, but when pain and death is removed from the equation, that what does not kill you makes you stronger, so to speak. another example the Marvel charractor Madcap is shown to have been driven insane by the fact that that nothing can kill him, and again constantly "tests" it by trying, like sticking a pen through his eyeball into his brain just because he's bored. another example, the Marvel charractor Wolverine, 'nuff said.
i'd also like for someone to explain an actual themeactically sound reasoning of why regen gets KB pro and resist, and FA and DA dont,... thematically i can see FA geting it by melting into the ground underfoot and in a sense melding with it, and DA geting it by just extending its nether tentacle underfoot into the ground,... by i can't exactly fathom why regen get's it.
anyways, just a few thoughts as i see it IMHO
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Out of curiosity, did you send the letter yet?
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I sent it the day I made this thread.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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But if you want to whip out the nerf bat, lets beat down the other ats that can solo av's (some faster than scrappers) that are not supposed to be as good a solo at as the scrapper, who is supposedly meant to be the strongest solo at.
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I'm not picking on you, Cyber_naut, but some of the perspectives displayed here about AVs is really skewed. When people say "other ATs can solo them faster," what they should be saying is "other powersets can solo them faster." Sure, a Rad/Sonic Defender will melt an AV. Try that with an Emp/, FF/, or Sonic/. Heck, I suspect Kin/ would even have trouble due to its clicks eating so much of its activation time.
Having said that, you can have a character that is strong at soloing AVs, but still be a poor at soloing overall. Most content in the game is not AVs, and overall Scrappers are some of the strongest for that content. Some specific sets may be stronger at a single aspect (AVs: Rad/Sonic, farming: Fire/Kin, etc), but Scrappers are better at running the entire gambit.
For most squishies, one word will add a plethora of soloing frustration: mez.
As for Regen... I'll stay out of that debate. I haven't played that set much in years. I think what you're really seeing is the effect of IOs on min/maxed builds.
[edit: Oh, about intra-AT balance, I think what Talen was getting at was that Scrappers are on the high end of the performance scale. If you balance around ATs being able to do between X and X+5, and Scrappers are all in the X+2 to X+4 range, then boosting X+2 to X+4 isn't exactly a priority. I'm not saying Regen doesn't have issues, but I can understand Talen's point.]
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You are correct, team-centered at's as a whole are not outperforming scrappers in solo ability, but some sets and combos are, while still dominating team play and being more valuable in both situations - that is why I suggested that if the poster was concerned with nerfs, that is where the bat should be aimed first.
And yes, the scrapper at as a whole is the best solo at, because they are supposed to be. On teams, other at's are more valuable and increase the teams strength by greater magnitudes. I can't count how many times I've been excluded from tf's and such because the team was holding out for buff and debuffs. Stacking buffs and debuffs are by FAR the most powerful tools in the game for players, not scrappers that can solo avs. Thats why some 'squishies' can solo giant monsters... lol. And that's why I have to chuckle when I hear people claim scrappers are 'too powerful' or need to be nerfed. If you want to see a power balance issue on teams, run a team of scrappers on the reichsman tf then a team with lots of buff/debuffers, or any team mish for that matter. If anything, scrappers contribution to teams should be buffed as support toons solo-ability has been buffed through the years.
In regard to the main argument, I agree we are seeing the effects of IO's, but I think it's not just a 'maxed build' thing. Even a few select IO's strengthen some sets incredibly. Really, the big deal is defense, which is so much easier now to softcap with IO's, so sets that don't use defense are left in the cold once IO's start getting used. Now in a way, it's balanced to some extent, IMO, because regen is one of the easier builds to level up and without IO"s one of the top sets. But that doesn't address the problem that the set requires more work and skill and attention to get similar survivability that other sets get with less work, skill and attention. Then on top of that, all the clicking slows down your damage output. That is why I feel regen could use just a bit of love, and I certainly don't think what the op suggested is going overboard.
Since someone mentioned the Scrapper Issues Thread, I'll just say this.
If you guys can agree on something needing to be done, I'll add it as a balance issue.
If you can't agree and still want it on the list, then I'll still probably add it but only as a wishlist item.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
It's a nice buff, but I don't know if I'd cross the line to balance issue. Wishlist, definitely.
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It doesn't need Slow Resistance because it has Instant Healing.
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Care to explain this? It makes no sense at all.
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My guess is that he meant Integration (and I would add Fast Healing). Regen is never helpless. Weaker yes, but I can't think of a single situation in the game where Regen gets all its protection taken away.
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I believe he meant to say "Recharge Resistance" instead of "Slow Resistance", with IH being a click and unaffected by recharge debuffs.
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That's just blatantly wrong. Because IH is a click, it's affected by -recharge. It's got a longer duration, so the -recharge isn't going to have an immediate effect upon survivability, but, as soon as you use any of the click powers, you're going to have severely diminished survivability because the power is going to be coming back in a longer period of time.
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Yes. Thanks for the correction Umbral. That will teach me to post literally 3 minutes after waking up. I can only claim I might have been having a flashback to toggle IH and some severe dementia regarding the wording. heh.
My interpretation of his using "slow" instead of "recharge" would still apply, though I noticed he has recently quantified his reasoning by inferring that IH could be used to negate the effects of recharge debuffs because it has a long recharge anyway, but lasts 90 seconds - enough to get you through a fight where -recharge has been applied.
I don't know that I agree completely with this, as Recon and DP affected my DM/Regen's survivability much more than IH(click, not toggle, ) being in effect, and they are what will be most noticably affected by -recharge. I will admit to not having played my /regen toon for quite some time, and so I may be incorrect from a numbers standpoint.
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Yes, I meant it doesnt need -Recharge Resistance because it has IH, a tool to allow it to survive for a long period even when the other clicks might be down.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Since someone mentioned the Scrapper Issues Thread, I'll just say this.
If you guys can agree on something needing to be done, I'll add it as a balance issue.
If you can't agree and still want it on the list, then I'll still probably add it but only as a wishlist item.
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I would definitely like to see this as a balance issue in comparison to other secondaries. As I pointed out, other secondaries have debuff resistance to add to their damage mitigation. I would definitely like to see recharge debuff resistance put into Resilience to a magnitude of 30-40% just like Quickness. I'd also like to see a 50% regeneration debuff resistance in Dull Pain, it would act like Reconstruction's Toxic resistance buff whenever clicked. It would last the duration of Dull Pain.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I'd add giving more IO's that better focus on non-defense mitigation to that list as well. The disparity between regeneration/resistance/statusresist and defense is quite large.
The only enhancement that resists debuffs is Winter's Gift.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
When fighting DE, regen sucks. Those swarms will majorly debuff recharge.
Never found this to be a big problem on my Spines/Regen Scrapper. Psi doesn't do any more Damage to a Regen than any other kind of attack, and things never lived long enough to be much of a threat.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Never found this to be a big problem on my Spines/Regen Scrapper. Psi doesn't do any more Damage to a Regen than any other kind of attack, and things never lived long enough to be much of a threat.
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The -rech 2ndary effect. Not the actual psi dmg. Psi dmg is only an issue when mog is being used for an "o crap" moment. Any other time, its just like any other attack. Actually, it may less if cw and dw are 6 slotted.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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The only enhancement that resists debuffs is Winter's Gift.
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Thus the massive disparity 
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The only enhancement that resists debuffs is Winter's Gift.
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Thus the massive disparity
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It would be nice in the healing purple sets they add a recharge resistance debuff as a proc.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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The only enhancement that resists debuffs is Winter's Gift.
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Thus the massive disparity
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It would be nice in the healing purple sets they add a recharge resistance debuff as a proc.
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Personally, I think they should have included debuff resistance as a baseline set bonus. The mez resistance is pretty meh, but being able to stack up some decent mez resistance would actually be useful.
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Personally, I think they should have included debuff resistance as a baseline set bonus. The mez resistance is pretty meh, but being able to stack up some decent debuff resistance would actually be useful.
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fixed.
Sorry Umbral, but after you caught my snafu, I couldn't resist.
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Personally, I think they should have included debuff resistance as a baseline set bonus. The mez resistance is pretty meh, but being able to stack up some decent debuff resistance would actually be useful.
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fixed.
Sorry Umbral, but after you caught my snafu, I couldn't resist.
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This is what I get for posted right after work...
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It doesn't need Slow Resistance because it has Instant Healing.
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Care to explain this? It makes no sense at all.
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It makes sense if you understand the design of the Regen set.
Instant Healing is your protection in Long fights. That's Exactly what you need when Slows are pulling down the recharge of your Short fight powers (Recon and MoG).
You don't need Slow resistance because you have a Click power that makes you almost unkillable for 90 seconds at a time.
Also, strategic use of MoG can overcome almost anything.
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Slows are a different mechanic than -recharge abilities, so I believe that's where the confusion is coming from.