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Again I keep asking, why is anyone against this? Especially if you are a regeneration player? It seems backwards thinking to reject a buff? I mean yeah I'd understand arguing against a nerf, but a buff? I think some of you need to stop drinking the retard kool aid and start thinking a lot more clearly.
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I wouldn't want a drink of that, because it appears you've been soaking in it.
Reasonable people support improvements when they're appropriate. Experience shows, for example, that if you get improvements you didn't need, they often come with some sort of compensating downgrade, possibly at a later time. Things don't happen in a vacuum.
For people who don't agree that Regen is somehow subpar in places we are confident the devs weigh heavily in their balance analysis, and/or who don't want to see Regen changed for the sake of change itself, your suggestions don't look that attractive.
If you can't understand that, I don't think you're in a position to attack other people's mental development.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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It doesn't need Slow Resistance because it has Instant Healing.
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Care to explain this? It makes no sense at all.
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My guess is that he meant Integration (and I would add Fast Healing). Regen is never helpless. Weaker yes, but I can't think of a single situation in the game where Regen gets all its protection taken away.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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With strictly SOs, Regen wipes the floor with most of its sibling armor sets.
[/ QUOTE ]It does??? It's been a long time since I've leveled a Regen, but this strikes me as unlikely. It's a good armor set solo leveling with SOs. It might be the best, though I'm guessing the nod might go to Willpower, and it wouldn't surprise me if others were better as well. But even if it is the best, “wipes the floor”? I'd be shocked if it outperformed all the other scrappers I've leveled up by that kind of level. Maybe I need to level another one up, though, just to see. Like I said, it's been a while.
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Yes, it does; at least in my experience. The only set that might do as well is Dark Armor IMO. I've tried a number of the sets on test and Regen just holds up better without the many boosts that IOs provide.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
to spiderteo.
I don't know sanct well as a person but, he has brought up the subject several times before. Now I'm sure somewhere along the line he came up with this course of action as being a consession and thematically accurate fix to the problem /regen is afflicted with. It's a fairly well measured response. The other options would be to give regen defence or more resistance. (the obvious two i can think of maybe you can think of something better) both would give scrappers more than they need. I think most people would agree with that. And those options don't fit thematically with the set.
to the thread
Of the three single type armors (regen/SR/Inv) regen is the only one without a resistance to having it's primary attibute debuffed. We really aren't asking for the world here, just some equality. I don't think that it makes sense for regens to be crippled by debuffs, much like SR's were crippled by debuffs before they got their -def debuff resistance. If this is your primary focus to the fault of all others I think you should still be able to do it in adverse conditions that would stop others with lesser similar powers.
The recharge debuff resistance is more a quality of life issue. it's not especially thematic but it is a noticeable hole as compared to other sets with fewer clicks. Regen is more suseptible to being killed by -recharge than SR or Inv. But there is a side effect of adding -recharge resistance, that is that regen would be able to attack more often than other powersets and AT's while under the same debuffs. On order of magnitude the -rech resistance should be less of factor than the -regen resistance.
If not -rech resistance then the idea others have come up with for accelerating the activation of heals, going "lagless" into those heals. I think of the two -rech would require less work and be a faster fix than the potential backend fixes that would allow for "lagless" heals. That may not be the case, it may be as simple as altering a single flag on each of the powers, I don't know.
I don't think regen's weakness was ever intended to be debuffs. If SR was never intended to be weak against defence debuffs and INV was never intended to be weak against resistance debuffs, then i don't kow how you can't say the same for regen. It's not a designed hole, it's coicidental.
Roxy On DA...Finally!
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I don't think regen's weakness was ever intended to be debuffs. If SR was never intended to be weak against defence debuffs and INV was never intended to be weak against resistance debuffs, then i don't kow how you can't say the same for regen. It's not a designed hole, it's coicidental.
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I wouldn't be so sure.
In early days, Regen was incredibly survivable, and it got a reputation as something of a whipping boy as the devs tried to bring it in line with their vision of what should be going on.
As mentioned upthread, there used not to be many meaningful -regen debuffs in the game. That changed in I4, which, as it turned out, introduced Arena PvP. At that point, many player powers which did not previously have -regen debuffs had them added. (Back then, there was no significant split in how powers behaved in PvP and PvE; the main different at the time was that you could detoggle people - another attempt to deal with how indestructible certain ATs and/or powersets were otherwise.)
Remember that, at the time, it was common for people to skip Reconstruction, because Regen simply didn't need it. Regen built that way was actually very much all about +regen buffs, so high-magnitude -regen buffs were actually pretty dangerous to it. This means that, back then, -recharge was far less significant to Regen characters, primarily affecting their ability to keep Dull Pain up. Without -regen, Regen actually had only one weakness - burst damage.
At the same time player powers got -regen added in, so did NPC powers. Death Mages never debuffed regen with Twilight Grasp before I4.
So in the context of the times, it actually seems quite likely that -regen was designed to be a hole for Regen, possibly primarily in PvP, but also in PvE in general. That progression felt very different from the one SR had. The devs were trying to bring Regen down while they were throwing things at SR to improve it, because there were people pointing out that SR was arguably your worst choice of secondary in the period beween perma-Elude being canned and I7's critter accuracy changes (and I9's IOs).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
/regen was first alt. I have done several different respecs to try different things with it. As it is now, you can survive just fine without those buffs. Just as my /fire survived with out res to slow and -rech. Just as many many many /invul survived without res to def, res to -end, and res to -rech/slow. But guess what? Fire and invul got those buffs anyway. Lets take a look at that comparison instead of /sr. Regardless of the reason they got those buffs, they got them anyway even though the set was fine without them. Granted, I've survived several run ins with positron and anti-matter with them dropping my -regen and -rech in the crapper. At the same time, Ive been dropped by an ambush in itf in less then 5 seconds so I understand what the true weakness is. With that being said, I still like the idea the OP has. Its not asking for too much. I don't like the way some of you are treating this topic. It wasn't this bad in the thread about dark armor a few weeks ago. Some of you sound like a typical /regen hater like I see running around the game trashing all that is /regen talking about its too easy to play and too powerful and admitted to jumping for joy when IH was changed. The Op didn't ask for anything off the wall and so what if its suggested already. I stand by what I say. Its true may be more of a QoL issue but so what. Its still a good idea.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I still stand by what I am asking, give regeneration debuff resistance to regeneration and recharge. Does it need it? No, but like I stated in my original post that regeneration is not a bad set and is far from a weak set but it does need more polishing.
Other sets have not needed debuff resistance, super reflexes, invulnerability, fire, but they got them anyway because the players kept asking for them.
My solutions wouldn't create an uber powered regeneration scrapper it would make them a little better. Also I have no problem with my current scrapper, he is wicked, but it would be nice to have debuff resistance two if his large weaknesses.
So I cannot over emphasis that regeneration, just like other power sets, does not need debuff resistance, but it would bring it inline with other sets and give it a boost to it's survivability.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I wouldn't be so sure.
In early days, Regen was incredibly survivable, and it got a reputation as something of a whipping boy as the devs tried to bring it in line with their vision of what should be going on.
As mentioned upthread, there used not to be many meaningful -regen debuffs in the game. That changed in I4, which, as it turned out, introduced Arena PvP. At that point, many player powers which did not previously have -regen debuffs had them added. (Back then, there was no significant split in how powers behaved in PvP and PvE; the main different at the time was that you could detoggle people - another attempt to deal with how indestructible certain ATs and/or powersets were otherwise.)
Remember that, at the time, it was common for people to skip Reconstruction, because Regen simply didn't need it. Regen built that way was actually very much all about +regen buffs, so high-magnitude -regen buffs were actually pretty dangerous to it. This means that, back then, -recharge was far less significant to Regen characters, primarily affecting their ability to keep Dull Pain up. Without -regen, Regen actually had only one weakness - burst damage.
At the same time player powers got -regen added in, so did NPC powers. Death Mages never debuffed regen with Twilight Grasp before I4.
So in the context of the times, it actually seems quite likely that -regen was designed to be a hole for Regen, possibly primarily in PvP, but also in PvE in general. That progression felt very different from the one SR had. The devs were trying to bring Regen down while they were throwing things at SR to improve it, because there were people pointing out that SR was arguably your worst choice of secondary in the period beween perma-Elude being canned and I7's critter accuracy changes (and I9's IOs).
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It may seem that way, but what does the description for regeneration say? I'm at work, and so if someone could quote from the ingame description that would be awesome, but I got this from Paragon Wiki:
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Regeneration lets you regenerate more quickly from damage and effects. Regeneration offers almost no actual damage resistance, but your Hit Point and Endurance Regeneration can become so incredibly fast, that your wounds heal almost instantly. Those who possess this power set have little downtime, but risk the effects of spike damage.
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If I remember correctly that is the quoted description text from in game. I have a mind like a steel sieve, however, so anyone with access to the game feel free to correct me.
My point is that the original intent was that burst damage was clearly Regen's hole. It isn't a hole for other sets like SR and Invuln, since the damage has to land for it to take down an SR scrap, and is resisted for an Invuln scrap.
That's not to say they didn't intend in I4 for -Regen to be a weakness, but then that leaves multiple holes in /Regen's mitigation. The game obviously changed greatly with I4, but it's also changed greatly now. Remember Fire Aura was given slow protection as a mainly QoL change (from Castle's perspective, anyway - it seems clear to me from the '06 Fire Aura thread that's been necro'd over in the tanker forum that he felt it didn't need buffs at all, but saw the point that slow resist for the sake of its heal was at least thematic).
So there is at least a small precedent for some sort of debuff resist in Regen (a tiny debuff resist was also recently added to /Invuln mainly as a QoL change to offset a self debuff in the set, as well).
As I've said before, though. Regen doesn't REQUIRE such a change to be functional, and so I can't - and won't - get behind any argument that begins with that as a basis.
To my mind, however, -Regen or -Slow resists being added are how Regen should work, for the same reasons as the resists in /Fire. It's just that such an argument, while perhaps a nobler one, carries a very low priority. Regen doesn't need help any time soon.
But to maintain that Regen somehow doesn't deserve some sort of debuff resist because debuffs appear to be its intended weakness is patently wrong, IMHO.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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I don't think regen's weakness was ever intended to be debuffs. If SR was never intended to be weak against defence debuffs and INV was never intended to be weak against resistance debuffs, then i don't kow how you can't say the same for regen. It's not a designed hole, it's coicidental.
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I wouldn't be so sure.
In early days, Regen was incredibly survivable, and it got a reputation as something of a whipping boy as the devs tried to bring it in line with their vision of what should be going on.
As mentioned upthread, there used not to be many meaningful -regen debuffs in the game. That changed in I4, which, as it turned out, introduced Arena PvP. At that point, many player powers which did not previously have -regen debuffs had them added. (Back then, there was no significant split in how powers behaved in PvP and PvE; the main different at the time was that you could detoggle people - another attempt to deal with how indestructible certain ATs and/or powersets were otherwise.)
Remember that, at the time, it was common for people to skip Reconstruction, because Regen simply didn't need it. Regen built that way was actually very much all about +regen buffs, so high-magnitude -regen buffs were actually pretty dangerous to it. This means that, back then, -recharge was far less significant to Regen characters, primarily affecting their ability to keep Dull Pain up. Without -regen, Regen actually had only one weakness - burst damage.
At the same time player powers got -regen added in, so did NPC powers. Death Mages never debuffed regen with Twilight Grasp before I4.
So in the context of the times, it actually seems quite likely that -regen was designed to be a hole for Regen, possibly primarily in PvP, but also in PvE in general. That progression felt very different from the one SR had. The devs were trying to bring Regen down while they were throwing things at SR to improve it, because there were people pointing out that SR was arguably your worst choice of secondary in the period beween perma-Elude being canned and I7's critter accuracy changes (and I9's IOs).
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The only problem with most of what you said, is that I can easily turn it around with the same exact examples you used and say that it was an unintended consequence of trying to bring regen into balance with the other sets. That in their attempt to 'whip' regen into balance, they accidently added *too* much against it, and as a consequence, other sets continue to become much better while regen sits on the side-lines, stunted by the past perceptions of it's performance, and fear of making it as overpowered as it used to be.
I play another secondary with a similar history called /devices.
Devices used to be grossly over powered, days of 0 feet of perception, and time bombing enemies into trip mines was an amazing site.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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The only problem with most of what you said, is that I can easily turn it around with the same exact examples you used and say that it was an unintended consequence of trying to bring regen into balance with the other sets. That in their attempt to 'whip' regen into balance, they accidently added *too* much against it, and as a consequence, other sets continue to become much better while regen sits on the side-lines, stunted by the past perceptions of it's performance, and fear of making it as overpowered as it used to be.
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That would be a fine counter to what I said if that was the position I was presenting an argument against. It wasn't.
Arcanaville explained that the devs felt that defense debuff cascading had unintended behavior with SR. Defense debuffs were not added explicitly to counter SR, but were a (largely thematic) attribute given to various powers, especially attacks represented as bullets. How these attacks then interact acted in practice with SR didn't work out the way the devs intended. Cascade defense failure apparently hadn't occurred to them.
That was used as an analog in a claim that -regen as a weakness for the Regen powerset was probably also some sort of accident of fate. Given the progress of the game's history and Regen's place in it, I find that incredibly unlikely.
That has nothing to do with whether or not it is relevant, appropriate, or balanced now. It's a counter only to the claim that it was not an intentional "hole".
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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It may seem that way, but what does the description for regeneration say? I'm at work, and so if someone could quote from the ingame description that would be awesome, but I got this from Paragon Wiki:
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Regeneration lets you regenerate more quickly from damage and effects. Regeneration offers almost no actual damage resistance, but your Hit Point and Endurance Regeneration can become so incredibly fast, that your wounds heal almost instantly. Those who possess this power set have little downtime, but risk the effects of spike damage.
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If I remember correctly that is the quoted description text from in game. I have a mind like a steel sieve, however, so anyone with access to the game feel free to correct me.
My point is that the original intent was that burst damage was clearly Regen's hole.
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Dude, with zero snark intended at all ... have you read the in-game description of the Controller AT? We really can't use those descriptions as the basis of arguments here one way or another, because the game has changed while most of those descriptions have not. When the game came out and that description was written, -Regen effectively didn't exist as a debuff players encountered. That changed in I4.
My point was that this change, adding -regen as a foil to the Regeneration powerset, appeared extremely intentional in the context of the times. All I'm saying is that I do not believe it was an accident that it hit Regen particularly hard in the same sense that it was (apparently) an accident that cascade defense failure hit SR particularly hard.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The issue with regen back in the day wasn't really regen. It was regen combined with tough and weave.
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There was more to it than that. Back in the day, there were builds with perma stackable Dull Pain and perma MoG. Before ED, you could slot the healing to the extent it was very difficult to overwhelm the regen rate. We used to have a spines/regen scrapper who would tank Hamidon during our early raids. Even Hami could not do enough damage fast enough to kill him.
I think what hurts Regen more these days is not necessarily any kind of debuff resistance... it's all the clicking involved. It suffers from the redraw associated with these clicks too. If I had to re-roll my MA/Regen, I'd go SR or WP due to not having to stop attacking and click.
However, I also keep in mind that Regen is one of two scrapper sets that has access to Quick Recovery, so slotting for end reduction becomes less a necessity.
That said, I would not mind seeing some level of -regen resistance added into the set. Thematically, that makes sense to me for a regeneration set. It could be added in via Fast Healing or even Resilience to make it more of an attractive power to take.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
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Dude, with zero snark intended at all ... have you read the in-game description of the Controller AT? We really can't use those descriptions as the basis of arguments here one way or another, because the game has changed while most of those descriptions have not. When the game came out and that description was written, -Regen effectively didn't exist as a debuff players encountered. That changed in I4.
My point was that this change, adding -regen as a foil to the Regeneration powerset, appeared extremely intentional in the context of the times. All I'm saying is that I do not believe it was an accident that it hit Regen particularly hard in the same sense that it was (apparently) an accident that cascade defense failure hit SR particularly hard.
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No snark taken! (Or intended on my part, either)
I get your point, and my counterpoint in the rest of the paragraph (the part that didn't get quoted) was that even though the game changed significantly in I4, it has changed even more since. It has seen the addition of even more burst damage (the I-10 Rikti and the Cimerorans spring immediately to mind, but there are others), but more importantly changes have been made to /Regen that make -Regen and -Slow less of an intended "hole" in its mitigation than it was in I4.
In I4, IH was a toggle, and it could be argued that this was one of the major reasons why debuffs were added. However, its change in I5 to a click is a pretty big argument against Debuffs being an intended weakness. So is the I5 nerf to Integration's unenhanceable regeneration. Why put Regen debuffs into place to be Regen's weakness if you're only going to nerf Regen's main regeneration powers in only one issue?
In the context of the past issue, it may have seemed like it was an intended weakness, but in the context of the changes from then to now it seems very much less so.
EDIT - after some thought, I felt the need to clarify something - what I'm not saying very well is that whether it was intended at the time or not, changes to the game severely reduced the effect that debuffs had on Regen. The game in its present state leaves little doubt that regen's current "dictated" weakness is burst damage, not debuffs.
Note that I said "dictated" and not "intended." By that I mean that the game's present state sometimes dictates its own counter-balances, regardless of what's intended. This IMO would be one of those cases.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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It doesn't need Slow Resistance because it has Instant Healing.
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Care to explain this? It makes no sense at all.
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My guess is that he meant Integration (and I would add Fast Healing). Regen is never helpless. Weaker yes, but I can't think of a single situation in the game where Regen gets all its protection taken away.
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I believe he meant to say "Recharge Resistance" instead of "Slow Resistance", with IH being a click and unaffected by recharge debuffs.
Since his post, I've noticed several people say "Slow" when they meant "Recharge". 
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The only problem with most of what you said, is that I can easily turn it around with the same exact examples you used and say that it was an unintended consequence of trying to bring regen into balance with the other sets. That in their attempt to 'whip' regen into balance, they accidently added *too* much against it, and as a consequence, other sets continue to become much better while regen sits on the side-lines, stunted by the past perceptions of it's performance, and fear of making it as overpowered as it used to be.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be a fine counter to what I said if that was the position I was presenting an argument against. It wasn't.
Arcanaville explained that the devs felt that defense debuff cascading had unintended behavior with SR. Defense debuffs were not added explicitly to counter SR, but were a (largely thematic) attribute given to various powers, especially attacks represented as bullets. How these attacks then interact acted in practice with SR didn't work out the way the devs intended. Cascade defense failure apparently hadn't occurred to them.
That was used as an analog in a claim that -regen as a weakness for the Regen powerset was probably also some sort of accident of fate. Given the progress of the game's history and Regen's place in it, I find that incredibly unlikely.
That has nothing to do with whether or not it is relevant, appropriate, or balanced now. It's a counter only to the claim that it was not an intentional "hole".
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Ah. My apologies for misunderstanding you then. I would agree completely that the devs added things in the past with the intention of lowering the performance of regen. Honestly, of the sets they gutted heavily, I feel regen came out the most balanced. But, the game has changed since then, and regen hasn't. As the bar of 'normal' keeps getting raised, regen remains the same, and I think that's a bit of an imbalance issue.
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QR
Not really sure this is needed. With strictly SOs, Regen wipes the floor with most of its sibling armor sets. It's only these days when defense sets have been given an almost absurd bounty that we think of Regen as lagging behind.
For my money, I would prefer to have IO set bonuses that were stronger. Defense sets get these overpowered buffs from IOs, why can't sets that depend on healing/regen? If heal sets had much stronger boosts to +regen, +health, and +resistance, I don't think Regen would lag behind after the IO race is over.
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I meant to reply to this sooner, but forgot too. IO's typically give a paltry amount of regen or HP as the first set bonus, and a comparatively large bonus to defense as the last one. I would like to see the reverse be true as well, as it would likely wind up helping to balance powersets that don't have any native defense to stack with the current IO scheme.
Granted, there's always the fear that if you do it that way, regen will get *too much* regen, and become unkillable again. Then again, defense based sets are already soloing AV's, so maybe that shouldn't be the point?
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It doesn't need Slow Resistance because it has Instant Healing.
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Care to explain this? It makes no sense at all.
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My guess is that he meant Integration (and I would add Fast Healing). Regen is never helpless. Weaker yes, but I can't think of a single situation in the game where Regen gets all its protection taken away.
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I believe he meant to say "Recharge Resistance" instead of "Slow Resistance", with IH being a click and unaffected by recharge debuffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's just blatantly wrong. Because IH is a click, it's affected by -recharge. It's got a longer duration, so the -recharge isn't going to have an immediate effect upon survivability, but, as soon as you use any of the click powers, you're going to have severely diminished survivability because the power is going to be coming back in a longer period of time.
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That's just blatantly wrong. Because IH is a click, it's affected by -recharge. It's got a longer duration, so the -recharge isn't going to have an immediate effect upon survivability, but, as soon as you use any of the click powers, you're going to have severely diminished survivability because the power is going to be coming back in a longer period of time.
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Not to mention that fact that, since Regen has no inherent defense, most -rech attacks that are being thrown against you are going to land over and over again, effectively locking out your biggest means of survivability.
Cascade recharge failure, perhaps?
There's not much cascade to recharge debuffs. Getting hit with one recharge debuff doesn't make the next recharge debuff more likely to land. At best, you could say that the recharge debuff makes Hasten take longer to recharge. Recharge debuffs are no cascading defense failure.
I see -recharge and -regeneration as very occasional annoyances, not as serious continual threats. But then, that's why I consider this just a quality of life issue rather than any sort of significant buff, or much of a buff at all.
Which has me now rethinking my support for this, because if the devs SEE it as a significant buff, and agree with me that Regen doesn't need a significant buff, getting it puts us in danger of nerfs. Not sure I want to risk actual nerfs for a mere quality of life improvement. But maybe I'm just gun shy after all of the early game regen nerfs, and am afraid to poke that sleeping dog.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
For -recharge resistance, I don't think there are any power in the set that imply such ability. I think it's ok for moment of glory to have some -recharge resistance. I understand that regeneration has a few clicks, but hp regeneration is not completely shutdown by -recharge alone. So, I think -recharge is a legitimate approach for mobs to partially reduce your power.
For regeneration debuff resistance, I think it is ok for the power set to have some resistance against the debuff. As mentioned in other posts, such treatment is also applied to other power sets.
From a game design point of view, the resistance should not be too strong as to negate the debuff. I think the characters that care about the debuff are either regeneration or willpower. I doubt other kinds of characters care about the debuff that much. Therefore, if the resistance is too strong, you might as well take out the regeneration debuff from the mobs because the debuff would be applied to characters who either don't care or can negate it.
If I were the dev, I would probably check if regeneration has decent performance against generic mobs. When regeneration scrappers meet mobs that nail their weakness, they should fall. It's ok to consider adding regeneration debuff resistance to the power set, but probably some resistance only such that the debuff is still effective.
Ok, perhaps not a cascade by definition. But getting hit constantly by various -rech attacks, in my experience, has shut down my cooldowns entirely for extended periods. Low defense means constantly getting hit, and constantly getting hit keeps those click abilities sitting there as tiny dots.
During such periods, unless IH is active, the amount of regeneration one has cannot nearly make up for the amount of incoming damage.
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It doesn't need Slow Resistance because it has Instant Healing.
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Care to explain this? It makes no sense at all.
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It makes sense if you understand the design of the Regen set.
Instant Healing is your protection in Long fights. That's Exactly what you need when Slows are pulling down the recharge of your Short fight powers (Recon and MoG).
You don't need Slow resistance because you have a Click power that makes you almost unkillable for 90 seconds at a time.
Also, strategic use of MoG can overcome almost anything.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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From a game design point of view, the resistance should not be too strong as to negate the debuff.
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Agreed. I certainly wouldn't give as much -regen or -recharge resistance as Super Reflexes has -defense resistance. But it sometimes seems like any -regen simply TURNS IT OFF. I find the binary nature of it annoying. I'd like it to debuff my regen instead of simply turning it completely off.
On the other hand, it's never made me feel helpless. I still have my clicks. It's just an annoyance.
Which might be where the devs are coming from in not giving us debuff resistance. Neither debuff on its own shuts down our survivability. Debuff our regen to 0, and we still have our clicks. Massively debuff our recharge, and we still have a lot of passive regeneration, and still get one good click out of all of our heals. None of these debuffs leave us helpless the way that cascading defense failure would leave a Super Reflexes helpless without its defense debuff resistance.
Not saying I agree, and that some moderate amount of debuff protection wouldn't be welcome, but maybe that's why we don't have it yet. *shrug*
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
It is true because I say it is dang it!!!
Ok really, unless it is your first /regen scrapper or you have the reflexes of a drunk and stoned snail, regen can cover most spike damage in the game with the tools provided in the set. If it is enough damage to kill a regen (one that is paying attention and knows what they are doing anyway) it will be enough to take out most other scrapper secondary sets as well. I have done things with my mainly SO slotted claw/regen that I have not been able to duplicate on other sets without spending alot more money.
The times I have trouble on my regen are when I am hit with -regen mainly. -Recharge not so much. While it would be nice to see a small -regen resist it really is not that bad. Most of the time the debuffs only last a few seconds and anyone who is prepared with the right inspriations can get through them ok.
My prevous post was a little all over the place. Sorry I was at work and writing between calls so it ended up being a bit scattered.
Pretty much what I am trying to say is that while those buffs would be nice, they are not really needed unless you have really slow reaction times. If this is the case then you should try WP.