I -know- I'm no blaster, but...Why am I so weak?
Man I agree, defenders suck. We need a damage buff devs ... seriously, I want more damage becuase you know, soloing these AVs is just to slow.
*sigh* Really people, defenders are for the patient and the min maxer, preferably both.
Also, as for Going Rogue killing defenders. Not going to happen, I love defenders but can never seem to enjoy a corruptor. Im sure I cant be the only person with that problem.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, as for Going Rogue killing defenders. Not going to happen, I love defenders but can never seem to enjoy a corruptor. Im sure I cant be the only person with that problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought I was the only one!
I do expect Going Rogue to hurt Defender number some - new players will likely be more drawn to the Corruptor's damage than to getting the buffs/debuffs earlier with the Defender.
No... the question is: Will it be enough of a drop to draw the Devs attention and time to the AT?
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, as for Going Rogue killing defenders. Not going to happen, I love defenders but can never seem to enjoy a corruptor. Im sure I cant be the only person with that problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought I was the only one!
[/ QUOTE ]
You both aren't alone, as I've said before.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Having seen Tornelco's defender solo AVs and Giant Monsters, I think I'd be happy with that damage on my dominators.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having seen some of the perma doms in action, I would be happy with their damage and control.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now all Doms are perma Doms.
[/ QUOTE ]
not all defender can solo gm's and av's.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly the rest of the set is pretty damn boringly normal as blast sets go.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only blast set with three rapidly recharging damage AoEs. The big hitter, the tier three blast is also its major single target control power. Extra Accuracy in most powers (this may be boring, but its not normal).
[/ QUOTE ]
The secondary effect is nice, the the AoE's aren't worth much. The set is nowhere near the AoE champ, nor the single target champ. It's middling all the way.
[ QUOTE ]
the the AoE's aren't worth much.
[/ QUOTE ]
I play Fire/Fire blasters (and a lot of /Fire blasters in general). I also play a Storm/Rad defender. For what its worth, I disagree with your assessment of Rad's AoE potential.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the the AoE's aren't worth much.
[/ QUOTE ]
I play Fire/Fire blasters (and a lot of /Fire blasters in general). I also play a Storm/Rad defender. For what its worth, I disagree with your assessment of Rad's AoE potential.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
Irradiate has DS just a shade lower than Psy Shockwave, but a way faster cast.
Electron haze does about the same damage as Frost breath, but with a faster cast so ends up almost smack dab in the middle of Frost Breath and Fire Breath in terms of DPA.
Neutron Bomb is just your standard ranged AoE, same as explosive blast, M30, bit better than Exploding arrow, bit lower than ball lightning (but this is dot), lower than Fireball.
The set is much better than average in terms of aoe output. Has acceptable st, and huge utility. It is also one of the best sets for IO'ing.
Quote:
Exaggerate much?
|
Originally Posted by Chill_Out
[ QUOTE ]
32 Rad/Rad defender here, and even with accelerated metabolism and a res debuffed foe, even my aimed snipe does less damage than my claw scrapper's unbuffed shockwave. I mean I still do helpful team functions, but I feel fundamentally useless besides that. Like even activating my secondaries is a end waste. [/ QUOTE ] Some quick advice. Until the devs revisit Defenders: When Going Rogue goes live switch to blue. Wave to the defenders in the museums as you pass 'Go'. |
Quote:
Your assessment is absolutely flawed if you haven't fully played both Defenders and Corruptors. For instance, my Ice/cold corr deals more damage and supports the team better than my Cold/Ice defender. Same could be said about my Rad/Rad corr and Rad/Rad defender and dark/dark corr and dark/dark defender. |
Originally Posted by Tornelco
Man I agree, defenders suck. We need a damage buff devs ... seriously, I want more damage becuase you know, soloing these AVs is just to slow.
*sigh* Really people, defenders are for the patient and the min maxer, preferably both. Also, as for Going Rogue killing defenders. Not going to happen, I love defenders but can never seem to enjoy a corruptor. Im sure I cant be the only person with that problem. |
The reason for this is because the damage loss going from Def -> Corr is significantly more than the support gain going from Corr -> Def. Since Damage naturally acts as a form of damage mitigation, the extreme damage deficiency for defenders makes them weaker at supporting the team than corruptors. This becomes even more apparent the more support ATs are added to the team.
Also the FotM trends in this game have always shifted to either easy to solo builds and/or farming builds. This is why you see more scrappers than tankers and more controllers than defenders. Given the choices between corr and def, the majority is going to shift for corruptors because of the earlier attacks and the ability to farm rapidly.
No one is saying there will be zero defenders when we say GR is going to kill defenders, we're talking majorities. Such as 9 corruptors for every 1 defender kind of majority.
Quote:
Ok, you make a decent point. I havent seen both sides of the fence, though my Corr did just hit 50 thanks to DXP weekend, the builds are completely different so I still cant claim a decent comparison.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Your assessment is absolutely flawed if you haven't fully played both Defenders and Corruptors. For instance, my Ice/cold corr deals more damage and supports the team better than my Cold/Ice defender. Same could be said about my Rad/Rad corr and Rad/Rad defender and dark/dark corr and dark/dark defender.
The reason for this is because the damage loss going from Def -> Corr is significantly more than the support gain going from Corr -> Def. Since Damage naturally acts as a form of damage mitigation, the extreme damage deficiency for defenders makes them weaker at supporting the team than corruptors. This becomes even more apparent the more support ATs are added to the team. Also the FotM trends in this game have always shifted to either easy to solo builds and/or farming builds. This is why you see more scrappers than tankers and more controllers than defenders. Given the choices between corr and def, the majority is going to shift for corruptors because of the earlier attacks and the ability to farm rapidly. No one is saying there will be zero defenders when we say GR is going to kill defenders, we're talking majorities. Such as 9 corruptors for every 1 defender kind of majority. |
However, while there will be a good number of people that will prefer Corrs. I highly doubt it will be as skewed as you think.
Quote:
Hey, I didn't realise Rad Blast was that good.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] the the AoE's aren't worth much. [/ QUOTE ] I play Fire/Fire blasters (and a lot of /Fire blasters in general). I also play a Storm/Rad defender. For what its worth, I disagree with your assessment of Rad's AoE potential. [/ QUOTE ] This. Irradiate has DS just a shade lower than Psy Shockwave, but a way faster cast. Electron haze does about the same damage as Frost breath, but with a faster cast so ends up almost smack dab in the middle of Frost Breath and Fire Breath in terms of DPA. Neutron Bomb is just your standard ranged AoE, same as explosive blast, M30, bit better than Exploding arrow, bit lower than ball lightning (but this is dot), lower than Fireball. The set is much better than average in terms of aoe output. Has acceptable st, and huge utility. It is also one of the best sets for IO'ing. |
Mind you, Kin is kind of an oddball pairing with it.
Quote:
I'll confirm that there are others that feel this way.|
Originally Posted by Tornelco
Also, as for Going Rogue killing defenders. Not going to happen, I love defenders but can never seem to enjoy a corruptor. Im sure I cant be the only person with that problem.
|
As for defenders, I really enjoy my rad/rad. There's something inherently fun about throwing down some anchors, diving into combat and dropping a pbaoe.
Well, my 2 cents...
I think a SMALL boost in overall damage would be good, but the problem isn't just damage.
There are sets that debuff the enemy. These sets suffer less overall because their debuffs are having the effect of increasing damage (thereby making the fight shorter, which reduces the damage taken, as well as the endurance used), or mitigating damage (thereby reducing damage taken and giving the defender time to defeat his foe, since his lower damage and high endurance use means he needs more time).
It's the sets that have no debuffs that suffer. Sets like Force Fields and Empathy are largely useless to the defender himself, meaning he's soloing with only his one power set, and his secondary, at that.
To be able to survive, a character needs high damage if he's to have low defense, low damage if he's to have high defense, or a balance between the two. Many Defenders have low defenses, but also have low offense. This is a broken combination, as it puts these characters at a serious disadvantage relative to everyone else.
What I'd like to see:
A SMALL overall damage boost to all defenders.
A reduction in the endurance use - we shouldn't have to use 2-3 times as much endurance to accomplish the same things as others do.
Allow defenders that buff to buff themselves. This may require some rebalancing of the buff powers themselves.
An inherent power that is actually useful in a positive way, both solo and teamed.
Some Defenders CAN already buff themselves (Force Bubble, Siphon Speed). Allowing people to use their buffs on themselves would be retardedly broken (see: 3.5 D&D Clerics).
I think Vigilance has the right idea, being an endurance discount, but it's worse than useless in its current state.
Quote:
I'm really not convinced that this is true. If defenders could buff themselves as well as they buff the other team members, it would make little difference in a large team, where defenders give the most advantage, but improve their soloability immensely.|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Some Defenders CAN already buff themselves (Force Bubble, Siphon Speed). Allowing people to use their buffs on themselves would be retardedly broken (see: 3.5 D&D Clerics).
|
The downside would be that more people would choose to play a defender over a blaster, because of greater survivability (at least for some defender sets) and more interesting gameplay.
If two defenders and a blaster don't constitute broken now, I don't think defenders with all buffs self-beneficial would be broken either.
Quote:
Here is that problem with that logic...|
Originally Posted by halfflat
I'm really not convinced that this is true. If defenders could buff themselves as well as they buff the other team members, it would make little difference in a large team, where defenders give the most advantage, but improve their soloability immensely.
The downside would be that more people would choose to play a defender over a blaster, because of greater survivability (at least for some defender sets) and more interesting gameplay. If two defenders and a blaster don't constitute broken now, I don't think defenders with all buffs self-beneficial would be broken either. |
Ice Tanker total defense:
Frozen/Glacial Armor = 26.5% Nrg/Neg/S/L
Energy Absorption at 10 hit cap = 9.36% Nrg/Neg/S/L/Fire/Cold
Wet Ice = 1% Nrg/Neg/S/L/Fire/Cold
TOTAL = 36.86% SELF ONLY
Cold Defender total defense:
Ice/Glacial Shield = 23.4% Nrg/Neg/S/L/ranged/melee/aoe
Arctic Fog = 7.8% ranged/melee/aoe
Maneuvers = 5.46% ALL
TOTAL = 36.66% TO ENTIRE TEAM
Such a change would have to result in SEVERELY nerfing down ally only buffs or risk the complete death of all Melee ATs.
Quote:
Though I still agree with your conclusion, giving the hypothetical defender a pool power while restricting the hypothetical tanker to his primary undermines your argument. Yes, self-buffing defenders would be too much, but not that too much.
|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Ice Tanker total defense: ... 36.86% SELF ONLY
... Cold Defender total defense: ... 36.66% TO ENTIRE TEAM |
The other side of that is that the Defender is going to be doing less damage than the Tanker.
It's the same equation I mentioned. If the Defender is going to have low offense, they have to have high defense, in order that they have the time to defeat the foe.
Defenders also have a fraction of the health of the Tanker, so while his defeses would be comparable, he's not going to last as long as the Tanker. He's also not going to have the status protection of the Tanker.
Thus, even in your example, the Defender is still weaker in general than the Tanker.
They have similar defenses, but the Defender has less health, less damage and less status protection.
Quote:
Maneuvers has a much higher Def bonus for defenders than tankers, It's a relevant advantage that tankers simply don't have. Making the entire team minus the defender have better defense (ranged/melee/aoe > only s/l/nrg/neg) than an ice tanker is pretty significant already to include the defender in the buff though is overpowering since it completely devalues the entire point of the Tanker AT. This isn't even including the numerous debuffs and controls that come with the Cold dom set that are superior in every way to the rest of the Ice Armor set.
|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Though I still agree with your conclusion, giving the hypothetical defender a pool power while restricting the hypothetical tanker to his primary undermines your argument. Yes, self-buffing defenders would be too much, but not that too much.
|
Quote:
its true. i do hate him. i hate you too. haz a nice day. |
Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Cause God hates you, that's why.
 |
Debt is temporary, prestige is forever
My Screenies and Videos :: My Toon List
The defender would also be doing RANGED damage. And in at least some cases would have +damage and +tohit buffs.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a tankmage, also known as overpowered.
Remember that ranged damage does less damage than melee. That is, the supposed defense supplied by range is "paid for" with reduced damage output. Of course, whether range actually does supply defense is debatable, especially at later level when there are mainly foes with longer range and more damaging attacks at range.
I play an ff/psi defender, he works fairly well against CoT and Council, but no so well against Nemesis or Council Robots, you just gotta pick your fights carefully is all..if soloing of course..
"Star Wars is adolescent nonsense; Close Encounters is obscurantist drivel; "Star Trek" can turn your brains to puree of bat guano; and the greatest science fiction series of all time is Dr. Who! "
Harlan Ellison
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly the rest of the set is pretty damn boringly normal as blast sets go.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only blast set with three rapidly recharging damage AoEs. The big hitter, the tier three blast is also its major single target control power. Extra Accuracy in most powers (this may be boring, but its not normal).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.