I -know- I'm no blaster, but...Why am I so weak?

Given that AVs and GMs resist debuffs rather heavily, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you can't entirely pin it on negating regen.

My emp/archery? Kinda sissy damage. But then, he picked sets that don't have a lot of ways to improve personal damage or survivability.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

My Rad/Rad is okay. Not amazing, but not awful, either. His attacks get the job done. He can solo at a pace that satisfies me, I just never do because I feel like that's a total waste of what he's capable of. He can take bosses and has decent fire-whenever-it's-up area damage. Debuffing is still his primary purpose, but his attacks work as well as I hoped they would, too. And they're going to get better when I get higher. So far, I'm really liking it, and I still have room to grow.

My Emp/Psy Defender, though... his secondary set is pretty useless. It's really sort of irrelevant without debuffs or self damage buffs to back it up. I don't really mind, though, because he makes such a big difference on teams.

Leveling up the Rad/Rad was a bit of a pain, though. I had many of the same hangups as the OP until around, oh... the late 20s? It wasn't until after I had a good amount of slots in the important powers that I began to feel like my damage was actually decent.

Defender damage is justified when you compare it to blasters and scrappers in isolation.

When you compare it to Controller damage, even pre-EPP with containment, you start to really wonder why you bother. Why be Rad/Anything when you could be XX/Rad as a controller?

This is partly because of low damage blasters, it should be more corrupter level if anything. It is also because Defenders inherent is obscenely bad.

I'm going by feel, here, but these are the defenders I've played, ranked by how easily they solo. This has absolutely nothing to do with what they bring to a team, and reflects the utility of a primary as much as the actual damage output of the secondary.

kin/psy -- never slows down
TA/arch -- not as fast as the kin/psy, but equally unstoppable
rad/son -- my perception is that the toggle debuffs tend to scatter enemies, so I don't like this one as much
emp/dark -- primary helps me keep going, but it's all about the dark
ff/psy -- will take virtually any team offered, but tends to do better solo than on small teams

[ QUOTE ]
Defender damage is justified when you compare it to blasters and scrappers in isolation.

When you compare it to Controller damage, even pre-EPP with containment, you start to really wonder why you bother. Why be Rad/Anything when you could be XX/Rad as a controller?

This is partly because of low damage blasters, it should be more corrupter level if anything. It is also because Defenders inherent is obscenely bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've long thought that the worst design decision the devs made was giving defender primaries to controllers as secondaries. I've come to grips with it, but it's still a little irksome.

I agree about our inherent. Useless solo and only rewards bad play. If the team's green bars are looking red, a decrease in end cost isn't gonna help me out much. I have faith that the devs will take a look at it someday, like they did with Defiance.

Well...,

- If you really want to haul off and start doing huge ugly numbers to the bad guys...you can either play an AT whose role is to DEAL damage (i.e. - scrapper and/or blaster) or take a good hard look at the powersets available and proceed from there. I found a wonderfully useful powerset combination that (so far) has allowed me to wipe out +5 mobs solo - the Kinetics/Energy Blast Defender.
- You want damage?...let's talk Siphon Power. Slot it 3 recharge and one accuracy and you have a 'Build Up' power that can stack 4 TIMES. Remember, just one application of Siphon Power BOOSTS your damage potential 25%...now imagine what happens when you throw in Fulcrum Shift. Blasters?...who needs blasters?!

[ QUOTE ]
Defender damage is justified when you compare it to blasters and scrappers in isolation.

When you compare it to Controller damage, even pre-EPP with containment, you start to really wonder why you bother. Why be Rad/Anything when you could be XX/Rad as a controller?

This is partly because of low damage blasters, it should be more corrupter level if anything. It is also because Defenders inherent is obscenely bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, because Containment is obscenely good. See Signature.

Negilgence is a perfectly fine defender AT power.

[ QUOTE ]
32 Rad/Rad defender here, and even with accelerated metabolism and a res debuffed foe, even my aimed snipe does less damage than my claw scrapper's unbuffed shockwave.

I mean I still do helpful team functions, but I feel fundamentally useless besides that. Like even activating my secondaries is a end waste.

[/ QUOTE ]

Defenders might be my favorite AT next to tanks. I have 2 lvl 50 defenders and am thinking about rolling a 3rd. Rad/Rad is what I'm considering.

Here's the build I'm thinking of using. Looks pretty potent in the damage department to me....

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Mutation Defender
Primary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal(15), Dct'dW-Rchg(40)
Level 1: Neutrino Bolt -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(9), Dmg-I(13), ShldBrk-%Dam(34)
Level 2: Accelerate Metabolism -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(3), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(5), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(37), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(40)
Level 4: Radiation Infection -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(5), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(11), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(11), DampS-Rchg(40)
Level 6: Irradiate -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(7), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(7), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 8: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Lingering Radiation -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(17), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(17), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(19), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(37), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(45)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Choking Cloud -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(23), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(23), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43), EndRdx-I(43), EoCur-Acc/Hold/Rchg(45)
Level 24: Proton Volley -- Mantic-Acc/Dmg(A), Mantic-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Mantic-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(25), Mantic-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(46), Mantic-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 26: Fallout -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Aim -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(33), AdjTgt-Rchg(33)
Level 30: Cosmic Burst -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(31), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Neutron Bomb -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Mutation -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(42), AdjTgt-Rchg(43)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(45)
Level 47: Total Focus -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(48), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(48), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]20.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]4.38% Defense(Energy)[*]4.38% Defense(Negative)[*]5% Defense(Ranged)[*]2.7% Max End[*]1.5% Enhancement(JumpHeight)[*]1.5% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)[*]1.5% Enhancement(FlySpeed)[*]4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]56.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]45% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]1.5% Enhancement(RunSpeed)[*]49.6 HP (4.88%) HitPoints[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%[*]MezResist(Stun) 2.2%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%[*]10% (0.17 End/sec) Recovery[*]46% (1.95 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]4.41% Resistance(Fire)[*]4.41% Resistance(Cold)[*]2.52% Resistance(Energy)[*]5.02% Resistance(Negative)[*]1.26% Resistance(Toxic)[*]1.26% Resistance(Psionic)[/list]


<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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When I need a morale boost on dmg, like when I go back to a defender after playing a blaster or scrapper, I just start counting all the extra damage I create from teammates as "my damage."

Add in every attack that benefits from a -res, or hits when it would have missed or is accelerated by +recharge or would never have happened without +recovery or... well, you get the picture, suddenly "my damage" is pretty substantial.

Of course if you're solo it's a moot point because you're wasting all the potential of defender-as-force-multiplier.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there's a couple of things to consider here.
<ul type="square">[*]You're not a Scrapper. Nor are you a Blaster. Defender damage is just going to be lower, that's part of the balance tradeoff Defenders have for their incredibly powerful buffs &amp; debuffs.
[*]So what's the point of the secondary powers? Well, several things. First off, just because it does less damage doesn't mean that damage is insignificant. You can still do decent damage that is helpful in a team setting and of course vital when solo. You won't be one-shotting things, but you can still handily complete missions yourself if you need to.

The secondary powers also offer a secondary effect. In the cast of Radiation Blast, that secondary effect is -Defense. In other words, making enemies easier to hit. Irradiate and Neutron Bomb both have very large values for this secondary effect and between them you can drastically reduce the defense of an entire spawn, making them easy prey for you and your team. If you've taken Choking Cloud from your primary, drastically dropping the defense of the spawn also makes them easy marks for it since reducing their defense is in effect making Choking Cloud (and all your other powers, and all your teammates' powers) more accurate.

The third reason secondaries are important for Defenders is control/mitigation. All of the secondaries offer at least one power to help you control the battlefield. For Radiation Blast, that's Cosmic Burst, and it's excellent. It's a good single-target attack that also stuns the foe. Probably one of the best powers in the powerset if not the best. [/list]
You really shouldn't be feeling useless at 32 on a Rad/Rad. Are you using Single Origin enhancements? You might consider posting your build, perhaps we can give you some pointers that will help you enjoy your character more. If you don't already have it, you can use Mids Hero Designer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all nice, now explain how a empath defender gains when soloing?

Lower damage, all but 3 powers are not usable on themselves and everyone of their powers are available to controllers.

Where is the balance for a soloing empath defender?

Do we need to pull out Psyonico's video of his Empath solo-ing invincible Carnie mobs with ease?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defender damage is sub par overall. Once it is accepted you get used to it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. Despite apologia, the fact remains that defenders hit like girls with muscular dystrophy. I know it's for balance. It's just one of those things that makes you sigh when you are reminded of it. Defenders are still an amazing AT, but just like scrappers aren't known for their debuffs, defenders aren't known for their damage dealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Defendes really do bring alot to the table. There is no shame in doing less damage then others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please name one thing that the defender brings to the table that is not better brought by controllers?

Irradiate - 37.5% defense debuff which lasts 10 seconds. Lets see a scrawny scrapper do that...

[ QUOTE ]
Please name one thing that the defender brings to the table that is not better brought by controllers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Humility and grace... That's two!

[ QUOTE ]
Do we need to pull out Psyonico's video of his Empath solo-ing invincible Carnie mobs with ease?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because 1 person finds a exploit, does mean the rest will.
And one set of mobs does not define the group.
How does he do against Malta?
The issue is not if one person with billions of inf and the best enhancements can survive what a scrapper or tanker could sleep through, but can a person with normal SO's survive and excel?
That logic is like stating that everyone should win the lottery just because I did.

[ QUOTE ]
Please name one thing that the defender brings to the table that is not better brought by controllers?

[/ QUOTE ]

The actual buffs, debuffs, and heals from the Defender primary? Controllers have support scalars of .75 whereas Defenders have a 1.0. A */ff controller with maneuvers will only be able to provide 33.345% +def. A ff/* defender with maneuvers will provide 44.46% +def. The difference between an FF troller and an FF fender is the difference between taking 33.31% of incoming damage and taking 11.08% of incoming damage. Defenders support better than Controllers.

Please try to actually learn the numbers before you make claims.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defender damage is sub par overall. Once it is accepted you get used to it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. Despite apologia, the fact remains that defenders hit like girls with muscular dystrophy. I know it's for balance. It's just one of those things that makes you sigh when you are reminded of it. Defenders are still an amazing AT, but just like scrappers aren't known for their debuffs, defenders aren't known for their damage dealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Defendes really do bring alot to the table. There is no shame in doing less damage then others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please name one thing that the defender brings to the table that is not better brought by controllers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nukes.

[ QUOTE ]
Just because 1 person finds a exploit, does mean the rest will.
And one set of mobs does not define the group.
How does he do against Malta?
The issue is not if one person with billions of inf and the best enhancements can survive what a scrapper or tanker could sleep through, but can a person with normal SO's survive and excel?

[/ QUOTE ]

HOLY MASS ASSUMPTIONS BATMAN!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please name one thing that the defender brings to the table that is not better brought by controllers?

[/ QUOTE ]

The actual buffs, debuffs, and heals from the Defender primary? Controllers have support scalars of .75 whereas Defenders have a 1.0. A */ff controller with maneuvers will only be able to provide 33.345% +def. A ff/* defender with maneuvers will provide 44.46% +def. The difference between an FF troller and an FF fender is the difference between taking 33.31% of incoming damage and taking 11.08% of incoming damage. Defenders support better than Controllers.

Please try to actually learn the numbers before you make claims.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet both reach the defense cap... what good is the extra 33%?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please name one thing that the defender brings to the table that is not better brought by controllers?

[/ QUOTE ]

The actual buffs, debuffs, and heals from the Defender primary? Controllers have support scalars of .75 whereas Defenders have a 1.0. A */ff controller with maneuvers will only be able to provide 33.345% +def. A ff/* defender with maneuvers will provide 44.46% +def. The difference between an FF troller and an FF fender is the difference between taking 33.31% of incoming damage and taking 11.08% of incoming damage. Defenders support better than Controllers.

Please try to actually learn the numbers before you make claims.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet both reach the defense cap... what good is the extra 33%?

[/ QUOTE ]

The defense cap is 45%. Neither of them will reach it alone. For the love of god, learn the friggin' game mechanics.

Lots of times the difference between the controller buff numbers and the defender buff numbers is meaningless. The presence of the buff is enough. Umbral's right about the numbers, but most of the time nobody will notice the difference. People are just happy to have buffs.

I used to think this meant my defender would not get teams, because controllers brought more to the table. Turns out this is utterly untrue. My AT envy was pretty ugly. It turns out that no amount of changing other ATs fixed what I thought was wrong with my favourite AT, and when I actually thought about it the problem with my AT (defenders losing out to controllers in teams and other situations) didn't even exist. I got teams then, get teams now, and will get teams in the future. When I want to play easy mode, I play my tricked-out scrappers. When I want to play AWESOME MODE, I play my defenders

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because 1 person finds a exploit, does mean the rest will.
And one set of mobs does not define the group.
How does he do against Malta?
The issue is not if one person with billions of inf and the best enhancements can survive what a scrapper or tanker could sleep through, but can a person with normal SO's survive and excel?

[/ QUOTE ]

HOLY MASS ASSUMPTIONS BATMAN!

[/ QUOTE ]

Never seeing the video I can't comment on the with ease or the exploit claims, but Emapthy Defenders, like all Defenders generally solo alot better than most people realize. They just are soloing alot slower.

The 1 hour challenge is a good measure. If I recall correctly my emp/dark made 8 million influence running radios for one hour solo.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defender damage is sub par overall. Once it is accepted you get used to it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. Despite apologia, the fact remains that defenders hit like girls with muscular dystrophy. I know it's for balance. It's just one of those things that makes you sigh when you are reminded of it. Defenders are still an amazing AT, but just like scrappers aren't known for their debuffs, defenders aren't known for their damage dealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Defendes really do bring alot to the table. There is no shame in doing less damage then others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please name one thing that the defender brings to the table that is not better brought by controllers?

[/ QUOTE ]

So that smiley is actually "smirk"? Huh.

What do controllers have that beats Sonic Blasts?

[ QUOTE ]
...Just because 1 person finds a exploit, ...

[/ QUOTE ]
That is insulting and blatantly false.