Man, sounds like you need to play an /elec and then come back....
hey, my /shield has tanked everything I've thrown at him so far
haven't had a chance to do an LRSF with him, though
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
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Man, sounds like you need to play an /elec and then come back....
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Tried electric blasters, didn't like them. Made an elec/elec brute and while effective it wasn't fun. Actually tried most of the brute combos before, but didn't really enjoy brutes much. Too squishy generally at low levels due to having to maintain momentum without the endurance to keep defenses up.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
DAMMIT MAN!!! i keep trying to tank with my 'Troller and i get deaded all the time!!!! stupid imob is useless, trollers are broked 
so what is your problem with just about every defensive/resistance set having a weakness? isyour uber feeling hampered by having someone actually touch you?
i played strictly resistance sets for the first year or so i was playing, when i tried my first /SR i was floored by how powerful they were, heck i even have a /EA that kicks butt, defense is great in this game...... but the game is not to designed to make you feel better about yourself, it's just a game, if you can't control your nerdrage i would suggest finding another hobby.
edit: hit reply on silencer7's post, but post was directed at OP.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
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Do wish I had 200% defense against things like Rularuu watchers and DE after Quartz drop, but largely 200% defense is pretty pointless.
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wouldnt make any difference, the quartz is (I beleive) +200% tohit which would still lol through 200% defence
As someone with a softcapped Night Widow who goes and pulls grate ambushes of L54 Rikti at RWZ raids, has soloed more than a couple AVs, and generally runs rampant, all with less scaling resists, less Defense debuff resistance, and significantly less HP than a Brute, I have to agree with some of the early responses.
You're doing it wrong.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
This topic makes me laugh out loud.
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MMs as the Tankers of CoV was only used in a vague and largely abandoned early design phase of CoV. It never actually hit the real world. If MMs were meant to be Tankers or aggro manipulators of any kind, they would have been given native aggro grabbing capabilities (whether for themselves or their pets) as well as the ability to take hits better, even with bodyguard turned on. As it stands, they're nowhere near tough enough or capable of enough aggro control to actually fulfill the role.
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Well, seeing as how the devs as late as issue 9 (during the i10 beta to be exact) stated that MM's were to be intended as the "Tanks" of CoV combined with the fact that MM pets have a higher threat mod than brutes AND a higher mitigation threshold (excepting AoE's) than brutes seems to suggest that you're wrong.
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prove it
since all brute attacks have the following line in them (even the aoe's):
400% taunt on target
the modifier you speak of matters little. my pets dont pull aggro off a brute who is actively attacking and using aoe's.
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Indeed, and that's a very important factor to consider when looking at how aggro works in this game.
Brutes have a 4.0 aggro modifier. MM's have only a 2.0, but their pets work at just slightly higher (I want to say 4.5). The issue with that is until MUCH later in the game's life, the current devs didn't understand full how aggro was calculated. Taunt wasn't a static effect, it was a magnitude of threat level compounded by damage, threat mods, and distance. In issue 7 proper, the factors that made up the "threat equation" were largely unknown. Distance wasn't even thought of as being a part of it.
Now look at how that equation works with how the AT's are designed. An MM in BG mode can soak up a LOT of damage via their pets. Between buffs and debuffs, they can individually mitigate more incoming damage than a brute can with few exceptions. Give their disposable pets a higher threat mod than Brutes and they should take the aggro, right? At the time, that's how the devs felt, but the reality of the situation played out much differently due to the unknown factors.
Saying that "the idea was abandoned in early design of CoV" is very mis-informed.
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I can find NO data indicating that MM pets have any threat level at all, neither do controller/dominator pets with the exception of PA with a threat level of 5 and phantasms decoy. Not even the bruisers attacks have any kind of taunt component in them. MM pets do NOT appear to have a higher threat level than anything, if you have data proving otherwise I would be very interested in seeing it.
The way MMs were supposed to "tank" was to throw in their minion pets as lunch every spawn to absorb the alpha, then resummon for the next mob. Bodyguard mode only arrived when MMs were underperfoming and 8 months after they had been on live, this enabled them to "tank" in a different way than the devs had originally planned.
Wether the idea of MMs as tanks has been abandoned by the devs or not, it was certainly abandoned by the players from i6 onwards.
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Although honestly, the invuln shouldn't be trying to herd either. I don't think invulnability gets much in the way of defense debuff resistance as well. Could be wrong though.
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Just like with most of your other power set knowledge, you are. Invuln gets 25% def debuff resistance from Tough Hide and Resist Physical Damage, giving them a total of 50% def debuff resistance, which is far from insignificant.
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I can find NO data indicating that MM pets have any threat level at all, neither do controller/dominator pets with the exception of PA with a threat level of 5 and phantasms decoy. Not even the bruisers attacks have any kind of taunt component in them. MM pets do NOT appear to have a higher threat level than anything, if you have data proving otherwise I would be very interested in seeing it.
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Iakona's AT spreadsheet lists the MM pets as having inherent threat ratings of 3.
This compares to a 1.0 for a Blaster and a 4.0 for a Tanker.
Regular "Pet" critters have a 1.5.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I can find NO data indicating that MM pets have any threat level at all, neither do controller/dominator pets with the exception of PA with a threat level of 5 and phantasms decoy. Not even the bruisers attacks have any kind of taunt component in them. MM pets do NOT appear to have a higher threat level than anything, if you have data proving otherwise I would be very interested in seeing it.
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Iakona's AT spreadsheet lists the MM pets as having inherent threat ratings of 3.
This compares to a 1.0 for a Blaster and a 4.0 for a Tanker.
Regular "Pet" critters have a 1.5.
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got a linky?
Can't you.... ya know... look at the stats of your MM pets?
Pretty sure the game allows it. I believe 'Threat Level' is in the base stats category.....
Hey, guys, I skipped to the end, but did anyone call him on:
1. Taking a brute on a LRSF?
2. Not noticing that LR has a +1,000% tohit buff to smash whatever his def based character had?
3. Lying?
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Hey, guys, I skipped to the end, but did anyone call him on:
1. Taking a brute on a LRSF?
2. Not noticing that LR has a +1,000% tohit buff to smash whatever his def based character had?
3. Lying?
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1. I take Brutes on a LRSF all the time.
2. Irrelevant, since you're working for him and not fighting him.
3. He's been called on that a few times.
Also: yes, DE quartz crystals will make any level of defense (even hard capped at 225%) useless.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Pure def sets can be explained in one word. That word is an actual name of a power in the /SR set, that word is part of the name of a popular deffense IO set, and that word is the base name for an inspiration. That word is "Luck". The whole concept of def is the % "chance". There is a "chance" you can be in the last battle on lrsf and not get touched and there is a "chance" you can get one shotted buy a NPC hero in a bank mission. Granted, those two examples are on the extreme of both ends. All I'm saying is one person can easily have issues using the same set another person considers to be easy mode. Some people say widows are too powerful. My widow has soft cap "all" def with mind link up. I still get dropped at times leaving me thinking wth? Def sets are a roll of the dice, a draw of the card, a pull of the slot machine. In other words, all about luck. Some have bad luck and some have good luck.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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Hey, guys, I skipped to the end, but did anyone call him on:
1. Taking a brute on a LRSF?
2. Not noticing that LR has a +1,000% tohit buff to smash whatever his def based character had?
3. Lying?
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1. I take Brutes on a LRSF all the time.
2. Irrelevant, since you're working for him and not fighting him.
3. He's been called on that a few times.
[/ QUOTE ]Barring for #3, I must apologise. It's been too long - I've been hearing people complaining about LR's huge tohit, I just kinda zoned out which TF is about working FOR him and which is working AGAINST him.
Either way, ridiculous thread. :P
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Do wish I had 200% defense against things like Rularuu watchers and DE after Quartz drop, but largely 200% defense is pretty pointless.
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wouldnt make any difference, the quartz is (I beleive) +200% tohit which would still lol through 200% defence
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Unless CoD is wrong (using the wrong table or some such), Quartz Eminators provide +100% tohit.
I have a softcapped SS/SR brute that can tank just about any content in the game. Lots of people have */SR that get by very nice owing to all the debuff protection.
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Pure def sets can be explained in one word. That word is an actual name of a power in the /SR set, that word is part of the name of a popular deffense IO set, and that word is the base name for an inspiration. That word is "Luck". The whole concept of def is the % "chance". There is a "chance" you can be in the last battle on lrsf and not get touched and there is a "chance" you can get one shotted buy a NPC hero in a bank mission. Granted, those two examples are on the extreme of both ends. All I'm saying is one person can easily have issues using the same set another person considers to be easy mode. Some people say widows are too powerful. My widow has soft cap "all" def with mind link up. I still get dropped at times leaving me thinking wth? Def sets are a roll of the dice, a draw of the card, a pull of the slot machine. In other words, all about luck. Some have bad luck and some have good luck.
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I think this is a great explanation. You really are just playing with probability and luck. I have a /SR brute that is above soft capped that I love at times and sometimes I just want to delete her. Sometimes I ITF and barely get scratched. The other day, I had a particularly rough run and got one shotted (essentially) by a cyst with my team surrounding me.
One of the team members was a widow with nice buffs, and another was a shield brute running some nice numbers. My defense numbers were well above 100% for positional and past 45% for typed. Regardless, I was still struck down. I suppose it is the game you play with a set that is entirely defense based. (Yes, I am aware of the scaling HP resistance power, and I have it, but if you have a lone HP remaining after a devastating strike, that won't help much.)
Defense based sets are on the unpredictable side still, and there doesn't seem to be much that can be done about that without breaking the game in favor of /SR.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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2. Irrelevant, since you're working for him and not fighting him.
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Going Rogue should cancel this irrelevance once it's released, though.
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Do wish I had 200% defense against things like Rularuu watchers and DE after Quartz drop, but largely 200% defense is pretty pointless.
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wouldnt make any difference, the quartz is (I beleive) +200% tohit which would still lol through 200% defence
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Unless CoD is wrong (using the wrong table or some such), Quartz Eminators provide +100% tohit.
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True, but the AoE is large enough that you tend to get them stacked on treespecs where the spawns are close together in a sand cave.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
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"I'm having trouble believing you. Why? Because my main hero side is claw/sr"
I don't want to hear from Scrappers whose only job is to do damage. You can't compare scrapper survivability to that of someone whose job it is to actually draw enemy fire. You don't get attacked as often as my brute does. You don't herd like I do. Stand in the middle of a herd that you grouped hitting the aggro cap and see how long you live. That's the job of a brute. SR brutes take more of a pounding than some scrapper who's only there for damage add.
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OK, here is my Super Reflexes scrapper standing in the middle of 16 enemies letting them all pound on me while I take out an AV, solo, with no temporary powers and no inspirations. Anything else you think scrappers can't do because we're not expected to herd?
As far as your experiences, I recommend downloading Herostats, running it, and sending the results to the devs. Or just turning on the to hit rolls and sending them the text. That's assuming you're actually getting hit as often as you say you do. Because if you are, it's a bug. But I suspect what you'll see is observer bias it's easy to remember the hits, and hard to remember the misses. I suspect you'll see that over a long period of time, you're not getting hit all that often.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Do wish I had 200% defense against things like Rularuu watchers and DE after Quartz drop, but largely 200% defense is pretty pointless.
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wouldnt make any difference, the quartz is (I beleive) +200% tohit which would still lol through 200% defence
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Unless CoD is wrong (using the wrong table or some such), Quartz Eminators provide +100% tohit.
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True, but the AoE is large enough that you tend to get them stacked on treespecs where the spawns are close together in a sand cave.
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Oh, definitely. I was just correcting the numerical error is all, not trying to say they're not the devil for defense based characters.
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Pure def sets can be explained in one word. That word is an actual name of a power in the /SR set, that word is part of the name of a popular deffense IO set, and that word is the base name for an inspiration. That word is "Luck". The whole concept of def is the % "chance". There is a "chance" you can be in the last battle on lrsf and not get touched and there is a "chance" you can get one shotted buy a NPC hero in a bank mission. Granted, those two examples are on the extreme of both ends. All I'm saying is one person can easily have issues using the same set another person considers to be easy mode. Some people say widows are too powerful. My widow has soft cap "all" def with mind link up. I still get dropped at times leaving me thinking wth? Def sets are a roll of the dice, a draw of the card, a pull of the slot machine. In other words, all about luck. Some have bad luck and some have good luck.
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I think this is a great explanation. You really are just playing with probability and luck. I have a /SR brute that is above soft capped that I love at times and sometimes I just want to delete her. Sometimes I ITF and barely get scratched. The other day, I had a particularly rough run and got one shotted (essentially) by a cyst with my team surrounding me.
One of the team members was a widow with nice buffs, and another was a shield brute running some nice numbers. My defense numbers were well above 100% for positional and past 45% for typed. Regardless, I was still struck down. I suppose it is the game you play with a set that is entirely defense based. (Yes, I am aware of the scaling HP resistance power, and I have it, but if you have a lone HP remaining after a devastating strike, that won't help much.)
Defense based sets are on the unpredictable side still, and there doesn't seem to be much that can be done about that without breaking the game in favor of /SR.
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This is why Stone Armor is still the toughest out there and not SR. It some defense but has all that resistance also so you don't have to worry about a streak of bad luck taking you down.
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"Brutes are extremely durable, but not really built for tanking."
Why aren't they?
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If the best I can hope for is that 1/20 hits from enemies will get through at full damage...then what's the point. I might as well be playing my Invul Tank who gets 90% resist to 100% of the attacks, plus 45% defense in a herd. SR is significanly less useful than invuln at this point.
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ITT we take a long [censored] time to realize obvious things.
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Although honestly, the invuln shouldn't be trying to herd either. I don't think invulnability gets much in the way of defense debuff resistance as well. Could be wrong though. If it doesn't then your defense would quickly do the following once you start getting hit:
45
39
33
27
Need I go on? I notice most attack based defense debuffs are for around 6% for some reason. So if it has no debuff resistance for defense... it would take about 7 hits to negate the defense entirely. And each hit would make the next one more likely.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History