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"I'm having trouble believing you. Why? Because my main hero side is claw/sr"
I don't want to hear from Scrappers whose only job is to do damage. You can't compare scrapper survivability to that of someone whose job it is to actually draw enemy fire. You don't get attacked as often as my brute does. You don't herd like I do. Stand in the middle of a herd that you grouped hitting the aggro cap and see how long you live. That's the job of a brute. SR brutes take more of a pounding than some scrapper who's only there for damage add.
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OK, here is my Super Reflexes scrapper standing in the middle of 16 enemies letting them all pound on me while I take out an AV, solo, with no temporary powers and no inspirations. Anything else you think scrappers can't do because we're not expected to herd?
As far as your experiences, I recommend downloading Herostats, running it, and sending the results to the devs. Or just turning on the to hit rolls and sending them the text. That's assuming you're actually getting hit as often as you say you do. Because if you are, it's a bug. But I suspect what you'll see is observer bias it's easy to remember the hits, and hard to remember the misses. I suspect you'll see that over a long period of time, you're not getting hit all that often.
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Brb, going to roll a dm/sr 
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
QR
This topic begun with fail and should end that way.
From now on I rename this topic "Fail"
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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"I'm having trouble believing you. Why? Because my main hero side is claw/sr"
I don't want to hear from Scrappers whose only job is to do damage. You can't compare scrapper survivability to that of someone whose job it is to actually draw enemy fire. You don't get attacked as often as my brute does. You don't herd like I do. Stand in the middle of a herd that you grouped hitting the aggro cap and see how long you live. That's the job of a brute. SR brutes take more of a pounding than some scrapper who's only there for damage add.
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OK, here is my Super Reflexes scrapper standing in the middle of 16 enemies letting them all pound on me while I take out an AV, solo, with no temporary powers and no inspirations. Anything else you think scrappers can't do because we're not expected to herd?
As far as your experiences, I recommend downloading Herostats, running it, and sending the results to the devs. Or just turning on the to hit rolls and sending them the text. That's assuming you're actually getting hit as often as you say you do. Because if you are, it's a bug. But I suspect what you'll see is observer bias it's easy to remember the hits, and hard to remember the misses. I suspect you'll see that over a long period of time, you're not getting hit all that often.
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I can do similar things with my dm/sd brute. Its sad because it makes most other builds pointless after being so powerful. I'm only lvl 31 and only have basic IO's. Best character I've created so far.
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QR
This topic begun with fail and should end that way.
From now on I rename this topic "Phail"
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Look, the bottom line is if you were given a choice of power sets and these were what they offered, which would you choose?
Column A: Soft cap defenses. Some resistence after you lose more than half your life, some resistence to slow effects.
Column B: Soft cap defenses, a self heal, additional HP, 90% resist to smash / lethal, and decent resist to all other dmg types, an oh @#$ button which caps all resists for 3 minutes, resists to end drain and the same resistence to slow effects.
SR is really just Invuln without any real resistance. Given that, doesn't that mean that SR is pretty well garbage? SR should at least have higher defense than invulnerability...that's their whole point. If a set doesn't offer any benefit and is only lacking compared to another power set...why's it an option in the first place?
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Look, the bottom line is if you were given a choice of power sets and these were what they offered, which would you choose?
Column A: Soft cap defenses. Some resistence after you lose more than half your life, some resistence to slow effects.
Column B: Soft cap defenses, a self heal, additional HP, 90% resist to smash / lethal, and decent resist to all other dmg types, an oh @#$ button which caps all resists for 3 minutes, resists to end drain and the same resistence to slow effects.
SR is really just Invuln without any real resistance. Given that, doesn't that mean that SR is pretty well garbage? SR should at least have higher defense than invulnerability...that's their whole point. If a set doesn't offer any benefit and is only lacking compared to another power set...why's it an option in the first place?
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That's so skewed and biased I'm not sure it deserves a response.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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Given that, doesn't that mean that SR is pretty well garbage?
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Given that Werner just showed you a vid of his SR taking on an AV with 15 other mobs?
Um, NO.
Ok, I just did a run through a Grandville door mission. Here's another theory. I kept track of the number of opening attacks from behemoth overlords. Of the 14 opening attacks I was subject to they should have only had 6.6% chance ot hit me, though they succeeded in rolling under that 6% a total of 6 times. That number seems oddly high. So I ran other door mission to test it again. And of the 15 opening Behemoth Overlord attacks, they managed to roll under that number 5 times in the opening attack. Perhaps there's a hole in defense on initial attacks, or there's something bugged with the random number generator that calculates some of the enemy attack rolls. Out of 31 opening attacks, 11 hits seems a bit high when they should only hit me 1/16 times. That or there's something buggy with my account.
I'm sure one of Powerforges videos is laying around the scrapper forums where he soloed 2avs at once, then three. I forgot how high he got though.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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Ok, I just did a run through a Grandville door mission. Here's another theory. I kept track of the number of opening attacks from behemoth overlords. Of the 14 opening attacks I was subject to they should have only had 6.6% chance ot hit me, though they succeeded in rolling under that 6% a total of 6 times. That number seems oddly high. So I ran other door mission to test it again. And of the 15 opening Behemoth Overlord attacks, they managed to roll under that number 5 times in the opening attack. Perhaps there's a hole in defense on initial attacks, or there's something bugged with the random number generator that calculates some of the enemy attack rolls. Out of 31 opening attacks, 11 hits seems a bit high when they should only hit me 1/16 times. That or there's something buggy with my account.
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I've never run into this, but if you truly want to get a good sample you should do many many attempts (a good sample size would be very large, say 1000).
Also, if you're doing this with behemoths, be sure to watch if they cast invincible before they attack you as that is a tohit buff. Are you checking your their tohit rolls?
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
No, that would crush his rant!
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Look, the bottom line is if you were given a choice of power sets and these were what they offered, which would you choose?
Column A: Soft cap defenses. Some resistence after you lose more than half your life, some resistence to slow effects.
Column B: Soft cap defenses, a self heal, additional HP, 90% resist to smash / lethal, and decent resist to all other dmg types, an oh @#$ button which caps all resists for 3 minutes, resists to end drain and the same resistence to slow effects.
SR is really just Invuln without any real resistance. Given that, doesn't that mean that SR is pretty well garbage? SR should at least have higher defense than invulnerability...that's their whole point. If a set doesn't offer any benefit and is only lacking compared to another power set...why's it an option in the first place?
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That's so skewed and biased I'm not sure it deserves a response.
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How is it biased or skewed? Honestly...compare the two sets and explain to me why SR is better than or on par with Invuln. What reason would someone have for legitimately choosing SR over Invulnerability? If all SR has is pure soft capped defense with little to no other migitating ability...why shouldn't we all just take Invuln? SR needs something to set it apart. Right now it is just a drastically weaker set than an existing one.
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be sure to watch if they cast invincible before they attack you as that is a tohit buff
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This can make a huge difference too.
Unlucky streaks just happen. During a mission the other day fighting council I ran into a LT class Wolf who managed to hit me 3 out of his 4 attempts all due to his tohit rolls.
As far as your herding ITF mobs I am leaning to believe you were running the mission fighting +2s or higher. I farmed the walls around Cim pretty often when I get bored and have gone to the restroom in the middle of a full spawn of even level mobs to come back at just above half health but been in the middle of a mob of +2s with 1 boss who hit me hard enough to almost equal the damage all the other even levels managed to accomplish in several minutes.
My recommendation is about what others have said and I believe you may have answered and dismissed the idea. Eat a few oranges. All I carry when playing my highly defense based toons are a few greens and buncha oranged. I know I am going to get hit and besides my DM/SD none of my defense based toons have any real resist outside of just tough or scaling resist which do nothing at full health. Hell I used to run my SS/EA through the ITF pulling lead and using Taunt and /EA has crap DDR when compared to /SR
back to what Mojo said though you need to do more test and pick a mob without tohit buffs before you conclude your defense is broken
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I'm sure one of Powerforges videos is laying around the scrapper forums where he soloed 2avs at once, then three. I forgot how high he got though.
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I'm not Powerforge but here are his Videos of Excelerate(Claws/SR)taking down AVs and here is a video Vs 3 AVs.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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be sure to watch if they cast invincible before they attack you as that is a tohit buff
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This can make a huge difference too.
Unlucky streaks just happen. During a mission the other day fighting council I ran into a LT class Wolf who managed to hit me 3 out of his 4 attempts all due to his tohit rolls.
As far as your herding ITF mobs I am leaning to believe you were running the mission fighting +2s or higher. I farmed the walls around Cim pretty often when I get bored and have gone to the restroom in the middle of a full spawn of even level mobs to come back at just above half health but been in the middle of a mob of +2s with 1 boss who hit me hard enough to almost equal the damage all the other even levels managed to accomplish in several minutes.
My recommendation is about what others have said and I believe you may have answered and dismissed the idea. Eat a few oranges. All I carry when playing my highly defense based toons are a few greens and buncha oranged. I know I am going to get hit and besides my DM/SD none of my defense based toons have any real resist outside of just tough or scaling resist which do nothing at full health. Hell I used to run my SS/EA through the ITF pulling lead and using Taunt and /EA has crap DDR when compared to /SR
back to what Mojo said though you need to do more test and pick a mob without tohit buffs before you conclude your defense is broken
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Actually I was more concerned with mobs frequently rolling low numbers under the defense value. I'm more concerned there's something up with the random number generator for some of the enemy attack rolls. To roll under 6% with such frequency is a bit odd. But I take your point. I'll do some more testing and see how the numbers add up.
Yeah Ive noticed my /sr toons lacking behind others....its strange but very true.
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Also, if you're doing this with behemoths, be sure to watch if they cast invincible before they attack you as that is a tohit buff. Are you checking your their tohit rolls?
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Actually, I should clarify, these aren't behemoths I was talking about...these were Behemoth Overlords which don't have invincibility...but you're right that further testing is still needed.
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i would never make an invuln brute myself outside of upre concept. they cant even cap smash/lethal WITH tough and has major holes to exotic dmg unless io'd the hell out to softcap said exotic in the form of defense.
if your granite brute died, odds are it wasnt built to actually tank
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Um, My DM/Invuln brute is nearly indestructible please explain.
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I've achieved close to 200% defense on SFs or on ITFs, etc, and it means nothing.
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lolz
you may have bad luck, that's about it, I have plenty of defensive based toons and they run just fine and only two of them are soft capped.
there's no need to fix defense because you get owned.
This thread makes me laugh. Clearly the OP has no idea how defense (and that's all aspects of it - defense, def debuffs, tohit, and accuracy) as a mechanic works, nor does he know how to best play his character.
My DM/SR's only weakness is soloing AVs, and the reason it's problematic for me is running out of endurance, not getting hit.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Look, the bottom line is if you were given a choice of power sets and these were what they offered, which would you choose?
Column A: Soft cap defenses. Some resistence after you lose more than half your life, some resistence to slow effects.
Column B: Soft cap defenses, a self heal, additional HP, 90% resist to smash / lethal, and decent resist to all other dmg types, an oh @#$ button which caps all resists for 3 minutes, resists to end drain and the same resistence to slow effects.
SR is really just Invuln without any real resistance. Given that, doesn't that mean that SR is pretty well garbage? SR should at least have higher defense than invulnerability...that's their whole point. If a set doesn't offer any benefit and is only lacking compared to another power set...why's it an option in the first place?
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That's so skewed and biased I'm not sure it deserves a response.
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How is it biased or skewed? Honestly...compare the two sets and explain to me why SR is better than or on par with Invuln. What reason would someone have for legitimately choosing SR over Invulnerability? If all SR has is pure soft capped defense with little to no other migitating ability...why shouldn't we all just take Invuln? SR needs something to set it apart. Right now it is just a drastically weaker set than an existing one.
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You listed three things for SR. You forget to mention +recharge, +speed from Quickness, softcapped defense debuff resistance and its own panic button in case of cascading failures with its own +recovery/+speed component.
SR also doesn't have a gaping hole in its defenses like Invuln does (i.e. Psi damage).
Then you go on about how good invuln is saying 90% resistance to smash/lethal (which you can't get unless you're a tanker or via Unstoppable, then you're comparing tanker Invuln to brute/scrapper SR). The defenses are also harder to cap (especially dependent on the assumption of invincibility saturation).
/SR just isn't for some people. I understand what you're saying about a possible bug with the RNG but you have to remember nothing is truly random. Even the RNG has its faults.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
All I can say is [censored] happens. I have times where I got hit 5 times in a row by stuff when I had soft capped defense on a stalker. I have even buffed my defense thru the roof with retsu and demonic on an already soft cap toon. Again I say [censored] happens. RNG in this game is flacky at times but I dont think SR is a bad set especially after soft capping. I feel its superior to invul in a alot of ways. I simply dont create invus anymore since there is WP. I dont know what to tell you dude other than make sure you take aid self.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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i would never make an invuln brute myself outside of upre concept. they cant even cap smash/lethal WITH tough and has major holes to exotic dmg unless io'd the hell out to softcap said exotic in the form of defense.
if your granite brute died, odds are it wasnt built to actually tank
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Um, My DM/Invuln brute is nearly indestructible please explain.
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same, my spines/inv scrapper is a rampaging monster and brutes are better, /Inv is no slouch
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Yeah Ive noticed my /sr toons lacking behind others....its strange but very true.
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/sr is a established late bloomer, invest in it and it will acheive things other sets simply cannot and with far less "holes" than any other.
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"Sorry, I have 2 /SR at 50, and I haven't noticed this."
Two SR what? Brutes, scrappers? Do you herd with them?
More info please.
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There in my sig, one is a brute, and the other a scrapper.
I use the brute to herd to make use of footstomp.
My scrapper I do the same, especially if theres a tank on the team. Ive been known to get a tank killed if they get cocky, trying to pull aggro off of me. I also use my scrapper to solo AV's
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?