"The final chance to hit is 32.872 from an AV. So your avoiding more then half the AV's attacks. Hit elude, and the AV will only hit 7.5% of the time. Or soft cap defense via IO set bonuses and team mates and the AV only hits 7.5% of the time. This is the lowest chance an AV can have to hit someone. Those minions your worried about? They have a lower chance to hit soft capped defense."
This is why I'm posting, because this is not what I'm finding. LRSF, my friend and I were playing Defense based toons, and never once did we dodge a single attack from these AVs you claim only hit 7.5% of the time. I was hit three attacks in a row that dropped me in a matter of seconds...and that was with elude popped, all toggles slotted with sets that put me above the soft cap, and with 2 bubbles from force field bubblers. My friend was also dropped without ever dodging a single attack.
There are numerous enemies that pretty well laugh at defense...not just Rularuu, which you're not likely to see red side anyway. Nemesis after vengeance, or Nemesis Snipers, Malta Gunslingers, Rikti Drones, Bane Spider Scouts and Executioners, just to name a few that hit me as though I had no defense at all.
The real reason for this thread is to voice whether or not SR is a viable set for herding types...as it stands right now herding requires a ridiculous amount of support or inspirations to make possible. No brute should have this much trouble performing their basic duty.
"I'm wondering how you think you get hit so freaking often anyway."
Because I do. =p
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"I'm having trouble believing you. Why? Because my main hero side is claw/sr"
I don't want to hear from Scrappers whose only job is to do damage. You can't compare scrapper survivability to that of someone whose job it is to actually draw enemy fire. You don't get attacked as often as my brute does. You don't herd like I do. Stand in the middle of a herd that you grouped hitting the aggro cap and see how long you live. That's the job of a brute. SR brutes take more of a pounding than some scrapper who's only there for damage add.
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And I don't want to hear from brutes who's job is to do damage, and who get BETTER defense then a scrapper with the same set due to having better modifiers. Your claiming that defense is negated. That's bunk. SR doesn't suffer from that problem outside of a few select enemies which villains will rarely face. Defense works the same weather your a brute, stalker, scrapper, or tanker. Defense doesn't care what your AT is. It works the same. So if a scrapper with 30% defense and Elude for things like elite bosses and archvillains is just fine, a brute with better defense will be just fine too.
By the way, I also have an ice armor tanker. So don't even talk to me about not being attacked very as often as a brute. My ice tank's entire job is to get attacked instead of the rest of the team. And outside of energy damage (don't have energy defense yet) at level 17 he is barely getting hit already. So as he gets up in levels he'll get hit less and less. So don't pull the "I get attacked more then you" card. It doesn't float.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
"A couple hits in sequence on /energy, /inv, or /ice can be devastating, but I've never had anything like a cascade failure on the ITF on my SR."
Well, I have. Many, many times. My level 50 SR/DB brute gets hit a lot whenever I try to herd. His melee defense is at 51% and he continually gets nailed, when he rounds up more than one group of mobs.
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Nemesis after vengeance, or Nemesis Snipers, Malta Gunslingers, Rikti Drones, Bane Spider Scouts and Executioners, just to name a few that hit me as though I had no defense at all.
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You know what the trick to things that can potentially get around your defense is? Learn their tactics. By the way, banes don't ignore defense. I've yet to have any real trouble with them on defense based characters.
Nemesis after stacked vengeance? Hmm, interesting fact. It's the LT's that use vengeance, and then only upon their own death. So kill the LT last. Presto, no stacked vengeance. I learned this tactic, why didn't you?
Malta gunslingers? Interesting, I've yet to really have a problem with them either on defense sets. The reason I don't like malta is because Knives of Artemis appear in every malta arc. And THEY I have problems with. Them and their stacked caltrop patches of doom. If a scrapper can drop a malta gunslinger fast enough that even if he's got high to-hit it doesn't matter, I'm sure a brute who's likely keeping their fury bar filled will have less issues. And I know for a fact that /sr can easily allow the whole "run from mob to mob nonstop" play style brutes almost demand. I use it on my scrapper main. Barely get hit no matter what I'm fighting too.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
"Sorry, I have 2 /SR at 50, and I haven't noticed this."
Two SR what? Brutes, scrappers? Do you herd with them?
More info please.
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"Sorry, I have 2 /SR at 50, and I haven't noticed this."
Two SR what? Brutes, scrappers? Do you herd with them?
More info please.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you herd with a Brute? They're supposed to be the Scrappers of CoV, and I don't think many non-seriously IO'd out Scrappers can herd very well.
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"Sorry, I have 2 /SR at 50, and I haven't noticed this."
Two SR what? Brutes, scrappers? Do you herd with them?
More info please.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to wonder, since brutes are damage dealers and not intended to be meat shields, why are you herding with one? The taunt auras usually are intended to help build fury during a battle, not herd maps.
By the way, just logged into my ice tank. He's currently got about 22% defense to smashing lethal, and already smashing and lethal attacks don't scare me due to missing most of the time. Why are you so worried again?
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
[ QUOTE ]
Do you herd with them?
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL at herding, relic of a bygone era.
I'd say something about herding, but I never did it or had need to do it. Haven't thought it was any better than just slicing through normal spawns in a long time.
"By the way, I also have an ice armor tanker. So don't even talk to me about not being attacked very as often as a brute. My ice tank's entire job is to get attacked instead of the rest of the team. And outside of energy damage (don't have energy defense yet) at level 17 he is barely getting hit already."
You can't compare the experiences of an SR scrapper or a level 17 Ice Tank to what a level 50 SR Brute has to endure. They're not the same thing. And your original argument was that your SR scrapper could live just fine through a TF, which does not compare to the role of the main herder.
And how do you know defense works perfectly the same for all ATs? I'm not sure that it does. This is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. What your level 17 Ice Tank deals with, as well as your SR scrapper is fairly irrelevent. Do you have an SR brute? That's what I want to hear about. Does anyone here have an DB/SR brute that can compare like scenarios?
Goddamnit Jim, I'm a Brute, not a herder!
"And I don't want to hear from brutes who's job is to do damage, and who get BETTER defense then a scrapper with the same set due to having better modifiers."
Do brutes really get better defenses than scrappers? I don't think so. I have both an SR brute and an SR scrapper...they have pretty much the same defense, with only a % or two difference due to design choices. I'm pretty sure brutes get the same base values as SR scrappers.
Which then begs the question, why herd with a Scrapper?
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"By the way, I also have an ice armor tanker. So don't even talk to me about not being attacked very as often as a brute. My ice tank's entire job is to get attacked instead of the rest of the team. And outside of energy damage (don't have energy defense yet) at level 17 he is barely getting hit already."
You can't compare the experiences of an SR scrapper or a level 17 Ice Tank to what a level 50 SR Brute has to endure. They're not the same thing. And your original argument was that your SR scrapper could live just fine through a TF, which does not compare to the role of the main herder.
And how do you know defense works perfectly the same for all ATs? I'm not sure that it does. This is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. What your level 17 Ice Tank deals with, as well as your SR scrapper is fairly irrelevent. Do you have an SR brute? That's what I want to hear about. Does anyone here have an DB/SR brute that can compare like scenarios?
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Not the same... Are you even listening to your self? What does a brute do? They charge into melee and cause lots of mayhem, likely drawing a lot of hate down upon them self.
What does a scrapper do? They charge into melee and cause lots of mayhem, nearly always drawing a lot of hate upon them self.
What does a tanker do? They charge into melee and make every enemy in the battle attack them instead of the rest of the team.
So, which of the three classes should be getting attacked more often? Yes, that's right the tanker. Point of fact, tankers play very much like a scrapper does. And my claw/sr scrapper is level 50. So if a level 17 or 18 defense based TANKER is capable of avoiding enough attacks with only 22% defense to be extremely hard to kill, what does that say about the level 50 scrapper or brute with more defense? And keep in mind this is on eight man teams running the 4th difficulty too.
Yes, I said 4th difficulty, and not 5th one. So that means MORE enemies trying to hit the defense based tank then on invincible. Think that over for a moment. By the way, my tanker is ice armor/warmace so extremely endurance intensive too. Dual blades isn't quite as endurance intensive I've noticed. And yes I've played it at all the various levels. Including at 50.
Oh and about herding... You do realize there's a cap of about 18 enemies for how many you can keep taunted onto you right? So if your herding, odds are your putting the team in danger since you can't hold all that agro.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
"By the way, just logged into my ice tank. He's currently got about 22% defense to smashing lethal, and already smashing and lethal attacks don't scare me due to missing most of the time. Why are you so worried again?"
Oh yes, more about your wonderful Level 17 Ice Tank. I'm guess because you've played an Ice Tank all to way to double digits you must be an expert about SR brutes. And I'm sure enemies at that level are comparable to enemies at level 50+...they have about the same chance to hit at both, right?
Notice how he conviniently lets the replies he can't answer without admitting he's quite possibly wrong fade into the background.
I'll pose the question again: Why would you herd with a Brute, which is designed to be the Scrapper of CoV?
"Notice how he conviniently lets the replies he can't answer without admitting he's quite possibly wrong fade into the background.
I'll pose the question again: Why would you herd with a Brute, which is designed to be the Scrapper of CoV?"
Because you're arguing a point on opinion. Brutes IMO, are not just damage...they are the herders of COV. They have the same resist caps as Tanks, they have taunt auras...why aren't they the tanks of COV?
[ QUOTE ]
"Notice how he conviniently lets the replies he can't answer without admitting he's quite possibly wrong fade into the background.
I'll pose the question again: Why would you herd with a Brute, which is designed to be the Scrapper of CoV?"
Because you're arguing a point on opinion. Brutes IMO, are not just damage...they are the herders of COV. They have the same resist caps as Tanks, they have taunt auras...why aren't they the tanks of COV?
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Because that is what the Mastermind, i.e. his/her pets, is for.
I'm surprised no one has called him on having at least 160% or so defense from IO sets.
What in the ever loving hell are you slotting? I'd kill for that kind of arrangement on an actual resist-based brute. 
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
NO U
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"And I don't want to hear from brutes who's job is to do damage, and who get BETTER defense then a scrapper with the same set due to having better modifiers."
Do brutes really get better defenses than scrappers? I don't think so. I have both an SR brute and an SR scrapper...they have pretty much the same defense, with only a % or two difference due to design choices. I'm pretty sure brutes get the same base values as SR scrappers.
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First of all, you see that "Quote" button? It's your friend.
Second of all, yes they actually do. I'd just compared the unslotted values of both scrapper SR and brute SR. Brutes get slightly higher values. Even with that, it doesn't matter since both can fairly easily hit 45% defense or higher.
Third point, herding is a waste of your time and the team's time. You can't hold aggro on as many enemies as you'd want to while herding. Not to mention as a brute, all that time you spend herding is time your NOT building up fury. Instead as a brute you should charge in swinging, then charge then ext group of enemies once this group's dead. SR will give you enough speed to get to them before you lose much fury.
Fourth point, if your trying to herd with a /sr brute... What's your magic taunt aura power? /SR doesn't have one so yes my claw/sr scrapper likely herds just as well as your DB/SR brute does.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
"I have to wonder, since brutes are damage dealers and not intended to be meat shields?"
Why aren't they? Properly slotted they are just as resilient as tanks...they have the same taunt auras...why can't they be played as meat shields?
"I'm surprised no one has called him on having at least 160% or so defense from IO sets."
I never claimed to having 160% from sets. I said I achieved almost 200% defense on a LRSF. Which I, and my friend's Widow, both achieved through bubbles, purple insps and powers.
Wasn't it announced that the MM's pets would be the "Tanker" of CoV?
Also, Brutes kill [censored] (edit: hence all the Brute vs. Scrapper threads), not herd and hold aggro, especially if the above is correct.