Thanks for all the replies. It looks like there will be more damage and more endurance use, and so its less end efficient over time, from what I'm seeing. Nasty. I mean, I'm sure the feeling of power is better, but I'm unlike most players. I'll take Stamina, Power Sink, Transference, a Miracle and a Numina unique, and 20% recovery bonus (or more) from other set bonuses, because I cant stand using END or seeing my blue bar move. I hate it.
I also happen to be broke red side. So I expect these changes will push my end useage beyond the point I can already tolerate, and I could already barely tolerate the end useage on my dominators since I'm using generics red side.
Basically, I admit I am overly sensitive to end costs (HATE) so this may actually put me in the minority of people who like their dominators LESS after the changes.
Still, I'll try it myself when it goes live, and worst case scenario, I'll just stop playing Doms. I've been more in a Mastermind mode this year anyway. 
Thanks all!
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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You should definitely add Fire Breath at that point you are hurting more targets by the time you kill the first one the next one will be at half health not even requiring a full attack chain.
But any way I would like to know how you got your numbers. Doing a chain of Blast>Blaze>Blast>Flares
Regular total damage would be 269.06
New Dom the totoal would be 430.57
Now I don't know how DPS is calculated, but if I were to take a guess it would be total damage/total activation time
If that is the case then dps would be as follow
Old - 61.15
New - 97
Plus with the new values Blaze and Flare overkill a minion so you won't really need that much of a chain.
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1. I said I was doing single target. The only time an aoe would be used is if it is more damaging than a st attack. Firebreath is not. So unless you want to see worse dps and higher endurance burn?
2. Try adding damage enhancements, and the live dom is perma as mentioned and supported by the recharge needed to fuel the chains used.
3. blast>blaze>blast>flares is IMPOSSIBLE on test with out a half second gap. And that is at the recharge cap, which nobody is hitting solo. Using high recharge of ~230% it would be a 1.3 second gap. Which sort of runs counter to a seamless chain no?
4. The numbers are straight off the test server, where dot is avg'd, some minor rounding occurred for both sets.
5. Your total activation time numbers are incorrect, you need to account for server ticks.
6. the chain you provided with 236% recharge would only produce 126.2 dps, so less than live, for more end and full of gaps. Thx but no thx.
I don't mind answering questions, but I can assure you this is not my first time at the rodeo
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I did edit, but a couple of thing that I am going to mention that really bring the test version out ahead.
1.) Biggest point the average gamer doesn't have 70% or higher on their recharge.
2.) 76% recharge is nothing to brag about one slow and you are back to regular dom with weak damage.
3.) To get the much recharge with a /Fire is extremely expensive unless the market has gotten better
4.) Also with that little recharge you have to live by hasten making sure you hit it once it comes up.
Yeah you may come out a little ahead endurance wise but too many factors play a role against bringing your damage down.
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I'm not sure of what point you are tying to make. I took the dom I play on live and figured out what it can do on test.
I chose a bare minimum perma dom because it is necessary to help fuel the builds end costs (both on live and test). If you are off of perma dom by even 1% you have to wait and refill the entire bar before you get the end replenishment. That can be quite some time on test especially.
I chose bare minimum perma dom because we were specifically told Castle was aiming to minimally impact them. I think he has abided by that agreement for /fire (once flares is fixed).
I chose a medium high level of recharge because it clearly shows that FE is extremely desirable with new doms.
You've kind of lost me. At one point you seem to be attacking my build (for w/e reason) and say 76% is nothing to brag about (even though I certainly never did, If I wanted to brag I'd be talking about my fire/storm troller), then you proceed to say it is extremely expensive...
I built my earth/fire perma dom for about 50-70 mill.
You seem to have an obvious issue with what I've posted for some reason. So I'd like to explore that. What level of recharge would you like me to use and what attacks do you want me to include? I'm not keen on doing aoe calculations, Starsman has already done an excellent job on that front. And the vast majority of attacks a dom uses over its career are st.
Thats what we have been saying over and over and over,Unicycle.
If the majority likes that type of play then I guess this is a good"revamp". I don't like it on any AT.People play in different manners and I suppose its worth sacrificying a few for the good of the dominator as WHOLE. If Castle gets an extra 500 dominators across the servers thats a good thing , right?
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Thats what we have been saying over and over and over,Unicycle.
If the majority likes that type of play then I guess this is a good"revamp". I don't like it on any AT.People play in different manners and I suppose its worth sacrificying a few for the good of the dominator as WHOLE. If Castle gets an extra 500 dominators across the servers thats a good thing , right?
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My feelings also. For me to continue playing the way I enjoy my doms I am now required to do very intense IO builds. I don't mind doing a couple IO builds for each faction, but most of my toons just get frankenslotted and perform where I expect. Test version doms can't do that for me with just fraken slotting, they need pretty aggressive builds.
As for increasing population; I think it is a poor goal because it is ultimately something he has no direct control over.
Things he does have control over would be goals like: doms need to on avg outdamage X metric. All steps are controllable and quantifiable. Popularity is measurable, but is a sum of qualitative factors, ie subjective perceptions.
That said, a simple rewrite of the AT description would probably increase popularity more than these changes will. A ton of casual players make their decision based on that screen, not on the theoretical dpe/dpa/dps of build x over build y.
Bottomline here is that io heavy builds will still prevail(ie
ermadoms). In fact it is now a neccessity in late game if a player doesnt like a jerky ,huff and puff feel. I LOVE the damage. I am simply looking at the change of the dominator as a whole entity in regards to the goal as stated by Castle.That goal being increasing "popularity".
I think another thing that has been overlooked in a larger picture is the state of the black market. Right now it is harder than ever to obtain the necessary pieces to optimize a build. This change further cripples the market . How? Can doms still farm and supply? Sure... but the new doms this revamp is suppoesed to entice will need to io out before they can contribute.It's like the snake eating its own tail.
If I were hanging around I'd shutup and sit on my fingers because I have multiple perma's and these changes seriously just make my characters better. In fact? They will be easily 110% better in pvp simply because of the damage boost.I realize pvp is neither here nor there.. I'm just saying...
Anyway this stuff doesnt make it easier for a casual in the long run.
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So, before it came to test we had people that disagreed on principle on the changes and people that were eager to have them implemented.
After the changes were released, we have pretty much the same number of people in each camp, except Ditzy changed name.
What does that tell us?
PS: it's 'n'est ce pas'
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Sorry to burst your "nefarious plot" bubble. Ditzy is no longer available to post. Whether tha be from a cancelled account, a banning, a what have you is none of your business. To infer that my opinions and testing are less valid because I am on a second account is pretty silly. At one time I paid for 4 accounts every month. I am now down to one account until it expires.In addition, I never once intimated I was some new person and people familiar with me in game and forums pointed out this was a secondary account multiple times. Go burn another witch. You are looking for the wrong person to crucify. 
To address your comment on various "camps". Prior to the beta release all any player could do was speculate. It here now and most posters have hopped over to test to provide feedback. There is a very large difference in speculating about changes and playing changes.
You have a nice day.
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* Energy Assault / Power Bolt: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.32 to 1.0, reduced its recharge from 6 seconds to 4 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.86 to 5.2.
* Fiery Assault / Flares: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.0 to .878, reduced its recharge from 4 to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 5.2 to 4.37.
* Psionic Assault / Psionic Dart: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.32 to .84, reduced its recharge from 6 seconds to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.86 to 4.37.
* Psionic Assault / Psychic Shockwave: Increased Max targets hit from 10 to 16.
* Thorny Assault / Impale: Increased this powers damage scale from 1.32 to 1.64, increased its recharge from 6 seconds to 8 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 6.86 to 8.53.
* Thorny Assault / Thorny Darts: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.16 to .84, reduced its recharge from 5 seconds to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.03 to 4.37.
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^^ Today's patch to test
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I agree, if you've got the dough and time to twink, new doms are pretty great.
If you don't they are awkward and clunky like a 13 year old boy who just grew 8 inches over summer, is now the tallest in the class and is also afflicted with a bad case of teenage acne.
Lol Mac .You beat me to it. Too bad noone took my billion enfamy bet. Id have more enfamy to give away in whatever event I do last.
Just give it to me, I'm the only one who deserves it anyways.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Lookie!!! We can "PURCHASE" additional MA slots!! Isn't that just peachy?? 
Post deleted by Moderator 08
Post deleted by Moderator 08
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Lookie!!! We can "PURCHASE" additional MA slots!! Isn't that just peachy??
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purchase eh?
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* Energy Assault / Power Bolt: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.32 to 1.0, reduced its recharge from 6 seconds to 4 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.86 to 5.2.
* Fiery Assault / Flares: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.0 to .878, reduced its recharge from 4 to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 5.2 to 4.37.
* Psionic Assault / Psionic Dart: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.32 to .84, reduced its recharge from 6 seconds to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.86 to 4.37.
* Psionic Assault / Psychic Shockwave: Increased Max targets hit from 10 to 16.
* Thorny Assault / Impale: Increased this powers damage scale from 1.32 to 1.64, increased its recharge from 6 seconds to 8 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 6.86 to 8.53.
* Thorny Assault / Thorny Darts: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.16 to .84, reduced its recharge from 5 seconds to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.03 to 4.37.
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^^ Today's patch to test
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I was kind of starting to get used to having a really strong T1, but then again, not having a filler attack to finish off sliver-health mobs with was a big pain in the [censored]. I like the change.
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* Energy Assault / Power Bolt: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.32 to 1.0, reduced its recharge from 6 seconds to 4 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.86 to 5.2.
* Fiery Assault / Flares: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.0 to .878, reduced its recharge from 4 to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 5.2 to 4.37.
* Psionic Assault / Psionic Dart: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.32 to .84, reduced its recharge from 6 seconds to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.86 to 4.37.
* Psionic Assault / Psychic Shockwave: Increased Max targets hit from 10 to 16.
* Thorny Assault / Impale: Increased this powers damage scale from 1.32 to 1.64, increased its recharge from 6 seconds to 8 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 6.86 to 8.53.
* Thorny Assault / Thorny Darts: Reduced this powers damage scale from 1.16 to .84, reduced its recharge from 5 seconds to 3 seconds and reduced its endurance cost from 6.03 to 4.37.
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^^ Today's patch to test
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I was kind of starting to get used to having a really strong T1, but then again, not having a filler attack to finish off sliver-health mobs with was a big pain in the [censored]. I like the change.
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I like the shift myself. It at least shows me Castle is trying to listen to what people have to say. That's good enough for me. I still think that once people get a handle of how to apply these changes, cries of "Nerf Doms mohr" won't be far behind.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
I would have preferred 4 seconds over 3, but I understand the reason for the change. Bump them to 4 seconds and give Psi Dart the 1 second animation and I'd say it's all good.
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Ok, i would like to know what the hell is wrong with the developers for this game. Are you serious? taking the damage off of domination...?????? WE ARE DOMINATORS.... WE DOMINATE..... should keep the damage buff. oh and PSW....? why would u lower the dmg on that?????? its A TIER 9 POWER.... its supposed to be.... good.... good job Devs. oh and positron.... GG ON NERFING AE.... the most tarded thing you've done....
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Honestly you went through all the trouble of registering to post that comment? It is posts like this which make me lose faith in people. 
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Ditzy...err...Southern Comfort said:
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For the record ,everything I predicted when these changes were in the speculation stage has come to fruition. Isn't my problem you arent astute enough to recognize that FACT.
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This was sent ot me in a PM, but now I'm ignored (yay me!) so I could not respond. Instead, I wanted to post it so everyone here could get a nice chuckle.
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I would have preferred 4 seconds over 3, but I understand the reason for the change. Bump them to 4 seconds and give Psi Dart the 1 second animation and I'd say it's all good.
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I think 3 seconds is good for Psi Dart and Flares. It matches Thorns, so that's 3 Sets with 3 second recharge, and 3 Sets with 4 second recharge. And let's face it, going from 1.5 sec to 6 sec recharge was pretty extreme, even to make Psi do more single target damage. There is no way that wouldn't be instantly noticable to any current Psi player.
4 seconds probably would have made those who liked the new Psi Dart better happier. And it would have matched Blaster Psi Dart. But I think this is closer to splitting the difference. (And who knows, maybe Blasters will get the new Psi Dart too)
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Ditzy...err...Southern Comfort said:
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For the record ,everything I predicted when these changes were in the speculation stage has come to fruition. Isn't my problem you arent astute enough to recognize that FACT.
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This was sent ot me in a PM, but now I'm ignored (yay me!) so I could not respond. Instead, I wanted to post it so everyone here could get a nice chuckle.
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Actually, this is 100% the truth. The blame for the changes is NOT Domination, as it was originally claimed and Southern seems to still be claiming, but indeed, the changes to the Energy and Psi Power Sets were as extreme as predicted.
I suppose if you don't care about Ice, Thorns, Electricity, or Fire (which needs some tweaks related to a totally different third issue) then yeah, this is a major change in Dominator playstyle.
Actually, the only thing I ever claimed about a damage buff to domination was that it was NOT the answer to make the archetype more popular. I am glad Castle is actually trying to rework a few things rather than slap a new coat of paint on them and call it good.As I have said before..... my dominators never were in any danger. If anything they WERE and still are sitting pretty . However, I am not a casual dominator player.. I think if he keeps moving in the direction of yesterdayspatch notes the concerns with the perma being more a necessity will be resolved. The goal is to make the archetype more appealing to more players. I dont like all of it but I do understand why the devs feel compelled to implement these changes.
I think Clouded must have a crush on me. Sure seems to bug it that I put it on ignore
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.... my dominators never were in any danger. If anything they WERE and still are sitting pretty . However, I am not a casual dominator player.. I think if he keeps moving in the direction of yesterdayspatch notes the concerns with the perma being more a necessity will be resolved.
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Oddly enough this thread has turned into an interesting conversation. But just piggy-backing on Southern's post, IMHO the AT revamp, puts veteran dom players in a pretty sweet spot. Good Dom players haven't and won't have trouble with the blapper play style. These changes don't remove that.
If anything we'll have more "timid" doms standing at range and blasting, too afraid to jump in with their melee heavy hitters. There are still Psi/ doms on live (and I've witnessed this) who refuse to jump into melee to use PSW. I still say the problem with dom popularity is fear of "squishy melee" these changes help. So the "meh" dom players will be ok at range. But really good dom players are going to be the ones pumping out the nasty DPS on teams. And I don't think that will be the majority...it will be interesting to see if dom's sustain an increase in popularity after this.l
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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You should definitely add Fire Breath at that point you are hurting more targets by the time you kill the first one the next one will be at half health not even requiring a full attack chain.
But any way I would like to know how you got your numbers. Doing a chain of Blast>Blaze>Blast>Flares
Regular total damage would be 269.06
New Dom the totoal would be 430.57
Now I don't know how DPS is calculated, but if I were to take a guess it would be total damage/total activation time
If that is the case then dps would be as follow
Old - 61.15
New - 97
Plus with the new values Blaze and Flare overkill a minion so you won't really need that much of a chain.
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1. I said I was doing single target. The only time an aoe would be used is if it is more damaging than a st attack. Firebreath is not. So unless you want to see worse dps and higher endurance burn?
2. Try adding damage enhancements, and the live dom is perma as mentioned and supported by the recharge needed to fuel the chains used.
3. blast>blaze>blast>flares is IMPOSSIBLE on test with out a half second gap. And that is at the recharge cap, which nobody is hitting solo. Using high recharge of ~230% it would be a 1.3 second gap. Which sort of runs counter to a seamless chain no?
4. The numbers are straight off the test server, where dot is avg'd, some minor rounding occurred for both sets.
5. Your total activation time numbers are incorrect, you need to account for server ticks.
6. the chain you provided with 236% recharge would only produce 126.2 dps, so less than live, for more end and full of gaps. Thx but no thx.
I don't mind answering questions, but I can assure you this is not my first time at the rodeo
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I did edit, but a couple of thing that I am going to mention that really bring the test version out ahead.
1.) Biggest point the average gamer doesn't have 70% or higher on their recharge.
2.) 76% recharge is nothing to brag about one slow and you are back to regular dom with weak damage.
3.) To get the much recharge with a /Fire is extremely expensive unless the market has gotten better
4.) Also with that little recharge you have to live by hasten making sure you hit it once it comes up.
Yeah you may come out a little ahead endurance wise but too many factors play a role against bringing your damage down.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp