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Longer recharge helps this how? Are you saying that because of longer recharge you find it refreshing to use more powers since the others werent recharged yet and something is STILL alive or what? Please clarify.
My opinion is the longer recharge and higher endurance costs simply make perma dom more of a necessity and widen the gap between the 'casual" so user and the min maxer types.
Yes, I have played the changes on test.
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Longer recharges help because doms have a lot of access to attacks and more attacks than they can use to be honest. It is nice because this helps justify all of these options.
As far as permadom goes, doms still want to get a lot of recharge for their aoe control abilities even if they aren't going for permadom, and this amount of recharge will help them with their attacks.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Longer recharge helps this how?
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One of the common complaints about Dom assault sets was that with controls mixed in with attack chains, they got saturated easily which created a performance cap. Longer recharge, harder hitting powers allows Doms to make optimal use of gaps when locking down spawns. Sure once you've got them locked down and are just attacking you may need a bit more recharge to get the same flow, but that's better than the alternative.
This doesn't not help the overall performance. You took a smooth running sleek AT, and tried to turn into a slow playing end heavy AT.
Taking the damage bonus away from domination and giving a weak overall damage bonus still cuts down on the overall potential of dominators. Overall performance is degrated.. when the overall performance is degraded that is not a buff in my book but a nerf.
Saying you are going to give powers a damage boost then making it barely noticible in comparison. Then increasing recharge time so having to wait on powers and an costing and arm and a leg to cast... Doesn't sound like a buff to me.
I move through a very fast and rapid damage over time attack chain. Continuous DPS is the key not this ohh I hit a little harder and now lets wait for the power to come back.
Making the AT go from a fast moving hard hitting AT to an AT that has to take rests and breaks.
Like putting a monster truck engine in a racing car.. it does not work.
You can put a dress on a pig but it doesn't make it any less of a pig. You can say buff all day long but this is is a nerf of dom's overall potential.
Triumph
Gavalin Kingsbury LVL 50 INV/SS Tank and 26 other LVL 50 heroes and villians (all Triumph)
Heroes of Justice and Liberty/Loved or Loathed
"NCSOFT doesn't fork for anyone but they might spoon you if they like you"
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Doesn't sound like a buff to me.
[/ QUOTE ]Let us consider this:
The devs state their goals, and do things. Then those goals - at least according to you - are massively not met.
What the hell do you think they're doing? Do you honestly think the goal of these changes was to weaken the archetype?
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This doesn't not help the overall performance. You took a smooth running sleek AT, and tried to turn into a slow playing end heavy AT.
Taking the damage bonus away from domination and giving a weak overall damage bonus still cuts down on the overall potential of dominators. Overall performance is degrated.. when the overall performance is degraded that is not a buff in my book but a nerf.
Saying you are going to give powers a damage boost then making it barely noticible in comparison. Then increasing recharge time so having to wait on powers and an costing and arm and a leg to cast... Doesn't sound like a buff to me.
I move through a very fast and rapid damage over time attack chain. Continuous DPS is the key not this ohh I hit a little harder and now lets wait for the power to come back.
Making the AT go from a fast moving hard hitting AT to an AT that has to take rests and breaks.
Like putting a monster truck engine in a racing car.. it does not work.
You can put a dress on a pig but it doesn't make it any less of a pig. You can say buff all day long but this is is a nerf of dom's overall potential.
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I'm an /nrg, so I wouldn't know what you're talking about. >.> Yes all the powers are slower and cost more but it's manageable and Relentless now feels like Vicious did thanks to all the damage. They didn't just buff the attacks, remember, they buffed our AT mods too. That means damage buffs mean more on top of us doing straight up more damage. My dom plays faster than ever now.
I never did get permadom, though.
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Doesn't sound like a buff to me.
[/ QUOTE ]Let us consider this:
The devs state their goals, and do things. Then those goals - at least according to you - are massively not met.
What the hell do you think they're doing? Do you honestly think the goal of these changes was to weaken the archetype?
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*rueful....* Its sort of looking that way, yes.
ROTFLMAO at the prior-stated idea that players should be grateful for having to stand around waiting for attacks to recharge. LOL! Yeah... that's.... just wonderful....
I will say this, there is also more damage coming from the control primary too...and I'm finding it helpful. Surprisingly so even, since I'm not used to it. (The control powers now do roughly the same damage as controller's with containment. )
After testing a variety of builds on test. I think the recharge times need looking at, and end cost is too high. However, as much as I hate to admit it if Castle and team can find the right balance, this revamp may indeed work out to our favor. And I was HIGHLY skeptical and resentful of the changes at first.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
They are unequivocal buffs due to the way the game works. If you can't see it, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't make them nerfs. You have a higher potential damage at almost all levels and, really, you should be using your hold between attacks most of the time anyway. Having all of your attacks always available is only cool if they don't all suck.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
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Longer recharge helps this how?
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One of the common complaints about Dom assault sets was that with controls mixed in with attack chains, they got saturated easily which created a performance cap. Longer recharge, harder hitting powers allows Doms to make optimal use of gaps when locking down spawns. Sure once you've got them locked down and are just attacking you may need a bit more recharge to get the same flow, but that's better than the alternative.
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My complaint is the /fire seems to be borked. It's endurance consumption wen't up about 33%, but its damage only went up 10-20% for various chains.
It is now exactly as much of an end pig as high recharge stone melee!
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This doesn't not help the overall performance. You took a smooth running sleek AT, and tried to turn into a slow playing end heavy AT.
Taking the damage bonus away from domination and giving a weak overall damage bonus still cuts down on the overall potential of dominators. Overall performance is degrated.. when the overall performance is degraded that is not a buff in my book but a nerf.
Saying you are going to give powers a damage boost then making it barely noticible in comparison. Then increasing recharge time so having to wait on powers and an costing and arm and a leg to cast... Doesn't sound like a buff to me.
I move through a very fast and rapid damage over time attack chain. Continuous DPS is the key not this ohh I hit a little harder and now lets wait for the power to come back.
Making the AT go from a fast moving hard hitting AT to an AT that has to take rests and breaks.
Like putting a monster truck engine in a racing car.. it does not work.
You can put a dress on a pig but it doesn't make it any less of a pig. You can say buff all day long but this is is a nerf of dom's overall potential.
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I'm an /nrg, so I wouldn't know what you're talking about. >.> Yes all the powers are slower and cost more but it's manageable and Relentless now feels like Vicious did thanks to all the damage. They didn't just buff the attacks, remember, they buffed our AT mods too. That means damage buffs mean more on top of us doing straight up more damage. My dom plays faster than ever now.
I never did get permadom, though.
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/eng seems to be amazing now. Almost perfect imo. It has three fast st ranged attacks by lvl 10 that all do good damage and gets two nice blaps. The tier 9 hits like a freight train and allows a full ranged attack chain of assault powers with very low recharge requirements (which allows one to focus on offsetting the end costs more easily). /eng is just a sweet st set now.
The rest of the sets... not so much. They require high recharge and high end reduction unless you of the mind set that "gaps are good".
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Doesn't sound like a buff to me.
[/ QUOTE ]Let us consider this:
The devs state their goals, and do things. Then those goals - at least according to you - are massively not met.
What the hell do you think they're doing? Do you honestly think the goal of these changes was to weaken the archetype?
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I don't think that was their goal and I don't think that will be the result. However, the goal of "increasing popularity" was also a driving force behind pvp2.0. I don't think they set out to make that area of the game perform worse than it did before, but here we are 
That said, I do believe part of his goal was to weaken some of the fringe builds ie /psi's aoe dominance with a single power and /elecs st potential. Starsmans charts (if you subscribe to them) show that while the bottom end was indeed raised, the top end was also lowered for a narrower spectrum that on avg has been raised a respectable amount.
I can assure you my /fire feels weaker now that I am consuming endurance as fast as a high recharge stone melee. I have numi+miracle+perf shifer+stamina+perma dom and I still think I'll need a well slotted consume and powersink to fuel this beast. That's two powers (and a patron change) that I have to fit into the new build. I'm just thankful there is a way for me to overcome this "buff" for the toon and keep on rolling.
I appreciate the slightly elevated damage potential this toon has, but I'd trade it back for my smooth and silky high damage /fire on live. I don't team with kins often enough for me to care that my peak potential is a fair amount higher under extreme buffing. When I team I pull out an aoe beast like my fire/cold, who's potential with a kin is about 6x as good as even the new dom 
Increasing recharge is okay as long as the DPS in total remains about the same.
Inbetween your gaps in your attack chain, you can throw out controls. Remember that doms have a pure dual purpose now: Damage and Control. Do both. All the time.
QR
I played my 50 Mind/Psy on Test and also leveled a Grav/Psy and Grav/Eng to 29 and 23, respectively, specifically to test the new changes.
My 50 Mind/Psi was disappointing at first, but that was mostly because I kept trying to play "the old way" with powers that were not slotted to fit the changes. Needless to say I was constantly running out of endurance.
However the two Doms that I leveled up and slotted properly to accommodate the changes were amazing. I had absolutely no endurance problems, and I was never bottlenecked by powers recharging.
I felt like a Blaster with control powers. 
The only problem that I noticed was with /Psy - with the new changes, Psy seems to have too many similar attacks. Mental Blast and Subdue would be identical if it weren't for the secondary effects. TK Thrust is also in a similar league, damage-wise, and feels redundant... however the FX and sound make it superfun (not to mention the smashing damage component).
I went onto Test really expecting to be disappointed, but now I can't wait for these changes to go live so I can continue leveling my two new Doms.
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
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Increasing recharge is okay as long as the DPS in total remains about the same.
Inbetween your gaps in your attack chain, you can throw out controls. Remember that doms have a pure dual purpose now: Damage and Control. Do both. All the time.
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Not sure if this was directed at me, but my dom's have always played dual purpose. Isn't that how they were and are supposed to play?
That said there are innumerable encounters where you use 2 seconds to control and then have no further need to interject control again and just go into pure damage mode.
However people seem to be suggesting that even in these scenarios doms should continue to spam control powers?
I wonder if these people realize that control powers are extremely taxing on the end bar (ie st immob/hold are very poor endurance for the damage they produce).
I'm not ok with the idea that casual players are magically going to know they should use chilbain to fill an attack chain. And if/when they do that they should be slotting it for damage or else deal with even higher endurance spent for damage produced.
If I get around to it I'll post some numbers on what happens to a live dom with a fluid low end cost assualt chain compared to a test dom that interjects an unslotted st immob as a filler into a high dpa, gaped chain.
A sneak preview: it makes end consumption go through the roof and makes the shiny new damage buff start to rust.
You know I read and read all this...and say why complain have the Devs ever really truly listened to us... Look at all the good stuff that they have done and the really really bad stuff..
Either way I don't care my fire/psi dom is my only 50 villain and I did it the hard grinding way..
Now that have plenty of inf and goodies I can just take all that over to one of my VEATS and play at less end cost and recharge time
Can you form your comment in a little more cogent a fashion?
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Increasing recharge is okay as long as the DPS in total remains about the same.
Inbetween your gaps in your attack chain, you can throw out controls. Remember that doms have a pure dual purpose now: Damage and Control. Do both. All the time.
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Not sure if this was directed at me, but my dom's have always played dual purpose. Isn't that how they were and are supposed to play?
That said there are innumerable encounters where you use 2 seconds to control and then have no further need to interject control again and just go into pure damage mode.
However people seem to be suggesting that even in these scenarios doms should continue to spam control powers?
I wonder if these people realize that control powers are extremely taxing on the end bar (ie st immob/hold are very poor endurance for the damage they produce).
I'm not ok with the idea that casual players are magically going to know they should use chilbain to fill an attack chain. And if/when they do that they should be slotting it for damage or else deal with even higher endurance spent for damage produced.
If I get around to it I'll post some numbers on what happens to a live dom with a fluid low end cost assualt chain compared to a test dom that interjects an unslotted st immob as a filler into a high dpa, gaped chain.
A sneak preview: it makes end consumption go through the roof and makes the shiny new damage buff start to rust.
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Please make sure and base the comparison off so slotting so people actually get an idea of whats going on here. Thank you. After all the "revamp" is to make Dominators more appealing to casual players. Casual players are not likely to preplan a build or invest much in io slotting.
Then do another comparison with optimum slotting and let them all see the difference.
Also make sure and do the comparison from 20-30 and 30-40... make thescale for those 2 segments a comparison against a tier3 perma lvl 50.
I am seriously not being snarky. I am simply pointing out that the changes thus far are still going to render Dominator abondonment pre io's. The changes neccesitate a + recharge build no matter what the powersets. Further widens the gap between casual and minmax that everyone seems to so object to. 
Does this change effect any of my doms? Not really except they will be better .But if the goal is to attract more people to playing dominator's the proposed changes are not the answer.
With all due respect, I dont know what the answer IS. But this isnt it and I bet anyone on the boards a billion influence that the damage modifiers will be lowered within 3 months of going live. If not sooner.
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Can you form your comment in a little more cogent a fashion?
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Must be Happy Hour!!! Hi, Talen!!! 
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But this isnt it and I bet anyone on the boards a billion influence that the damage modifiers will be lowered within 3 months of going live. If not sooner.
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Why would they lower the damage modifiers and not the damage scale of the individual attacks? Or is that what you meant?
If anything, putting the damage modifiers back to their original Domination levels would make the End costs WORSE.
I am not a numbers Gal . I PLAY. Modifier, scale... whatever. I am pretty sure you get my point. Whatever thing thats increased dom damage is going to get lowered eventually. Thats what I was typing.
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Can you form your comment in a little more cogent a fashion?
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Must be Happy Hour!!! Hi, Talen!!!
[/ QUOTE ]Bye Ditzy!
Toodle along,Talen!! ** hugs and kisses***
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I am not a numbers Gal . I PLAY. Modifier, scale... whatever. I am pretty sure you get my point. Whatever thing thats increased dom damage is going to get lowered eventually. Thats what I was typing.
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Just as long as you're shooting at the right target. I agree, though. Energy is nice, but I think it may be going a bit too far. And Flares and Psi Dart could be pulled back closer to their original recharges without majorly effecting the rest of the sets.
More damage isn't the problem, though. It's harder hitting attacks. The base damage boost didn't cost any extra End or recharge, it was the increases in burst damage.
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Increasing recharge is okay as long as the DPS in total remains about the same.
Inbetween your gaps in your attack chain, you can throw out controls. Remember that doms have a pure dual purpose now: Damage and Control. Do both. All the time.
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Dominator's always were damage and control if you built it right.
If the dev's didn't want to nerf high level doms they would of put the difference of what was the buff of domination - the buff of overall damage and keep that in domination.
If the dev's didn't want to nerf dom's they wouldn't of made nearly every dom build a end heavy monster.
I feel sorry for those who have to level a dom and maybe even solo one. The extra damage will be ok for the first spawn or two but when you run out of end after 2-3 spawn having to take a rest then watching dom drop while in rest.
Then work to get dom back up only to have to rest a spawn or two after you get it up. Watching it drop again.
A spawn or two might go a slight bit quicker while out of dom initially but because you will have to rest and wait between spawns now missions will ultimately take longer to complete.
It is the ability to keep constant control and damage not a small burst then have to rest that will make doms better.
So a way to make this work as not a nerf...
1. Give the difference of the damage buff back to domination.
2. Give us our Endurance back
3. Cut back on some of the recharge added to powers.
4. Or the best way is not to mess with it and leave as is the current damage is very nice on doms built right you can have good damage with consistant DPS.
Triumph
Gavalin Kingsbury LVL 50 INV/SS Tank and 26 other LVL 50 heroes and villians (all Triumph)
Heroes of Justice and Liberty/Loved or Loathed
"NCSOFT doesn't fork for anyone but they might spoon you if they like you"
Actually I'm inclined to think that the slower recharging heavier hitting attacks are a good thing too. I can certainly fill the chain out with other things, but having high scaler attacks that hit harder for the same animation time is a GOOD thing. I can always either add in another attack, or bring the rech down on key attacks via slotting/global, but bringing the BASE dmg up isn't something I can effect. I'll take slow recharge heavy hitters every time, as long as the animation times aren't lengthened
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Arg