D0mbegone

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If every power rezzed players, but the actual resuscitate power from emp, therm, rad etc was worse then them, then ya it would be exactly like rez powers

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Ok... I used Rez powers as an example because although used more often than some other powers, they are highy situational given that they depend heavily on a specific situation to occur to be used, but they are not a power too many average players would skip. I think you are having a different arguement than I am, or just being disagreeable, I'm not sure.

[/ QUOTE ] Sure rezzes are situational (and almost completely unnecessary since insp combining) but they are the only powers that do what they do. They don't compete with any other powers save the "go to hospital" button.

Snipes compete against combat opening powers AND other damage powers. That puts them up against some pretty stiff competition.

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I am not an avg player, but unlike a lot of people around here I am able to disconnect myself and my experiences from skewing my perspective of how others might view a situation.


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Then why is it you entire post seems to define usefulness only in terms of Damage, damage, +DAM, and BU+damage?

Again, we're not even on the same page here. You see one to two situations a snipe can be useful to use and/or slot, I see more.

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That wasn't my intention, but last time I pointed out how pointless snipes were I was told they are pure awesome when used at the end of a buff cycle. I was just showing that is not particularly true or compelling enough reason to warrant them.

I'll gladly talk about snipes in any context you desire from secondary effects, use in regular combat, use in extraordinary situations, to build domination, to tag runners, w/e you like.

I just figured we'd already ruled them out as being particularly useful in any of those situations and had narrowed it down to them being must have because of how awesome they are with buildup, or FE.

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However:
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also for all of you really got something smart to say...don't turn this into a personal issue cause this is just a game..i fight in real life and i doubt any of you kids i would pay attention to.


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This made me laugh. Lots of kids "fight in real life". It doesn't mean they're any good at it, and it also means they're masters of the Art of the Mouth Runner.

Of course, if you want to have a go at me, I'm all for it. My tae kwan do is a tad rusty, but I'm sure it'll do. Where did I put those trophies and medals again... ugh. I always lose those things because I don't bother displaying them. Pretty sure I still have my gi, though, and I do need an excuse to wear it again. I like that thing.

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If you two do go at it please remember to get it on camera.

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Indeed. I think that could be interesting... but if he really does fight in the MMA (as his profile an above statement purport), you might just get your butt handed back to ya.

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Not to be an a** but.... either way it would be interesting to watch

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Heh, like I said in another post. I have 27 years invested in martial arts. Chang Moo Kwan if it matters, which it does some. No matter what, I dont think he would last very long with me. Don't need to mention the awards and money I have made from it Been filling in for my Sabunim for the past 7 years when he is away training still. He travels over seas to train after 35 years in it. He ask me too(would be cool) but noway I could spend a month out of a year over there.

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Everyone is a martial arts master on the interweb I was just on a forum the other day and apparently most gamers can also run a sub 17 min 5k. Most gamers also make $250k/year, but they love their mom so much they let her live with them...heh

I will say that if he is a good MMA fighter I'd put my $250k/year on him , but MMA is super fotm everywhere right now and there is a world of difference between being an MMA fighter and being a good MMA fighter.

IME almost invariably people that feel the necessity to claim they are exceeding good at fighting aren't. It also reminds me of Dwight from the office attaching his martial arts experience to his work resume

It's the guys who don't say a word that you have to worry about.

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Not all spine attacks have the dot though do they?

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True - Assassin's Impaler, Build Up, and Placate don't have the DoT. Just all of the other powers in the set.

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This is actually a more complicated question than it may first appear. While Assassin's Impaler, Build Up, and Placate are the only powers in the set that do not have additional toxic DoT in PvE, NONE of the Stalker Spines powers have any toxic DoT components in PvP. It's all lethal and no DoT. I have a lvl 50 Spines/Nin stalker and she's my main. I have some experience with this.

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Wait, why is the DoT disabled in PvP?

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placate interference.

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Actually, don't forget that resistance debuffs effectively 'buff' themselves.

So using Shriek 4 times with Enervating Field running doesn't yield a blank 110% buff, each debuff effectively separately multiplies your damage : 1.3 (EF) * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 - which comes out to about 124% damage increase rather than 110%.

Unresistible Resist Debuffs Buff Resistible Resist Debuffs.

Hoo-ah for Rad/Sonic.

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I don't recall there being any unresistable -res in pve (and none in a rad/son combo for sure), that was a pvp feature and one that is gone as of i13.

Your cast times aren't accounting for server ticks (arcana time). The ice chain takes 4.36 sec rather than 3.74 that mids states.

I'm not sure how you are figuring you'll quadruple stack shriek. At 300% recharge (purple +rech build) shriek cycles every 1.94 seconds. I can't recall if shriek applies the -res at the beginning of the animation or at the end. I suppose it doesn't really matter though. It gives 5 seconds of debuff. Technically you'll stack three, but with only 0.06 seconds to spare I doubt you'll see more than double stack.

I don't have my sonic chains anymore, but I know a proper one can eb and flow between 4 and 6 stacks of the -res. It will do a lot more damage than just shriek spam. Way more once you start adding procs.

The longer cast of scream appears bad, but the first two ticks of damage apply the -res and the next 8 are self buffed. Very unique attack. As a result it ends up being your highest dpa attack.

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No alert is a huge advantage.

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indeed. It is dang hard to screw up while playing mind and if you do they aren't alerted anyway so nbd.

If other control sets had the massive margin of error that mind does it would be a whole different ball game for dominators (and trollers to a bit lesser degree).

On a different note, some people say Illusion doesn't have enough control to be a good dominator set. I say it has almost as large of a margin of error as mind control and would be incredibly good on doms.

Sup invis is an amazing power, it doesn't follow the same suppression rules as other stealths. And 3 indestructible pets available very often. If you die while playing illusion you are doing something wrong.

qr

I used to love my necro/ta and my thugs/ta for zone pvp pre i13. /ta had the ability to make a big open area effectively a small boxed in "office map". Mobility tends to hard to deal with on a MM and /ta rendered mobility moot.

Sadly people just zip away at full speed with glue arrow on them now unless my pets keep them suppressed, which works if they were near me and my pets to begin with, but if I had to stray to catch them with entangle/glue by the time my pets show up they have zoomed away. I miss -maxrunspeed.

qr

slotting range in flash freeze (so no return fire usually) and then running into pbaoe range so Arc air starts affecting them while you cast iceslick is a great way to have near total mitigation available every spawn without requiring any LoS tricks. Without a obstacle to protect you, just casting iceslick can lead to a lot of incoming damage.

I've found the sleep to be invaluable on my ice/elec in teams. I generally don't wait on others to do the brunt work and it allows Arc Air to do its thing. I rarely expect more than about 5 seconds of duration on the sleep, which is really all you need usually.

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Didn't they JUST do this by making imps ignore recharge?

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Recharge became irrelevant in this situation. When you summon new imps, it kills the old ones.

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Just noticed this ...I'm pretty sure they're talking about how fast the imp's attacks recharge, rather than how fast the imps themselves recharge

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You are correct, cause the imps was only using one attack because it recharged so fast.

It is a good fix(not nerf) not a bad one. It makes it so pets cycle through thier attacks now unlike before.

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Do they? I know this was the stated reason, but specifically what pets now function better than they did before?

Additionally, how is their output now compared to how it was when it was 'broken' when under recharge? (I'm thinking of bruiser now vs bruiser with ff rech proc in footstomp and rech improving IO's. And please don't cite that handclap is now better and makes the bruiser better, that change was independent of the recharge change).

Also, how did locking recharge benefit pets with a single or very few attacks?

Lastly, (and I know lolpvp) how did making pets immune to recharge debuffs help pvp?

I agree the change may have been necessary, but to wholesale call it "good" seems like something a koolaid drinker would say.

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When it comes to thugs, I have no ideah. When it comes to ninjas, it help mine. When it comes to the dark servant, it helped mine. I havent really noticed anything with my imps.

I don't really play MMs. I hate them darn things. I just have a ninja/poison MM. It has been level 32 since a month after CoV release. Thats how much I like MMs. I just notice a difference with Hero pets. Now they cycle through their attacks....most of the time, not always. Dark servent seems way better to me though since the fix.

And wtf is wrong with kool-aid. I used to drink it as a kid and I mix that with pure grain sometimes when I get tired of mixing it with other things. 190-300 proof is a tad harsh strait. Noway I would drink my uncle's moonshine strait!

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I'm a bit confused. Did you have your ninjas slotted with things like:
genin - kb IO sets - ex Forcefeedback kb/end
jounin - kb, -def, -tohit IO sets - ex Undermined def debuff/rech
Oni - kb IO sets

And your dark servant slotted:
with any of the multitude of set IO's it takes

And/or did you play with a recharge buffer that buffed your pets?

What I'm asking is that if you never had any +rech affecting your pets in the first place then how is that any different than how it is on live. Why are they working better now?

You may or may not fit this group, but a lot of people that weighed in on the pet changes didn't have their pets ever buffed by +rech.

We know Castle was monkeying around with attack ranking preference of pets at the same time. While we weren't told my conspiracy theory is that those changes are a large part of why some pets now work better because their recharge never changed in most cases where improvements were reported.

However, burying it under the guise of the pet recharge locking makes it much easier to get that change accepted.

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<opens up a jerry can>

Earth is so powerful that the aoe sleep is generally useless for most builds and most situations. Unlike that crappy MIND set...

<ckecks can, still plenty of fuel for another time. Closes can>

skippable powers while leveling:
st immob
aoe immob
salt crystals

*You'll eventually want one or both immobs depending on whether you have a need to immob st targets (AV's) or want frequent aoe containment (to leverage epic aoe attack).

SC takes a very cheap purple set and last time I checked the purple immob set was reasonable too, so you need to weight that in as well in late game.

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I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: if the grounds for taking a power is highly situational it will not be taken by very many people.

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Really? Like Rez powers?

For someone who goes on and on about "not being the average player," you sure do seem to speak for them all quite often.

Snipes can be useful when used and/or slotted right, just like every other power in the game...

Besides, can you really call yourself a true dominator if you have the option for a snipe and never even once took it just to snipe your opponent at point blank range while they helplessly floated in the air.

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If every power rezzed players, but the actual resuscitate power from emp, therm, rad etc was worse then them, then ya it would be exactly like rez powers

I am not an avg player, but unlike a lot of people around here I am able to disconnect myself and my experiences from skewing my perspective of how others might view a situation.

Believe it or not is it part of my profession, I like to think I'm good at it. The people that pay me usually agree with me. I work hard at improving constantly though with seminars and coursework to name a few.

Snipes unfortunately (for them) are in a unique position where they compete with "opening" powers AND "damage" powers. They rarely make for a 'good' opening power (especially for doms) and especially outside of solo play. And they even more rarely make for a 'good' damage power. The exception is at the very end of a buff period (buildup, fe, aim, fulcrum, etc) because it artificially extends it (4.5 seconds for snipes), but that sure sounds situational and means we pretend /eng and /psi don't apply.

About the only snipe that is decent for doms is blazing bolt, but that is largely becasuse of four factors that have little to do with it being a "snipe".
1. It has good bonus damage
2. It is fire damage
3. The set has FE, which is the largest +dam buff and also lasts extraordinarily long.
4. Fire works very well from range so the minimum amount of +dam time is wasted.

The only other dom with a +dam buff and a snipe is /elec. However, buildup is 8.68 seconds long (casting it uses up duration) AND elec works best in melee range.

So /elec either opens with the snipe and eats up over half of buildup and then spends another 1-2 seconds getting into melee range to hopefully get a single attack off before bu expires.

OR

/elec hits bu and pwns face up close and then uses the buff extension trick with zapp at the very end of buildup. Which means using zapp from melee range. From that range you need to first ensure all mobs are rendered useless or likely be interrupted. Or the dom could use thunderstrike at the end of bu (and get the same buff extension trick) and do moderately less damage, but not risk interruption. AND use a power that makes sense to use in nearly every encounter at any time.

I admit since Castle nerfed thunderstrike so much it can make sense to end bu with zapp rather than TS, but I still don't see how that one specific scenario justifies 6 slotting a power. And for a snipe to be combat useful it needs a lot more interupt reduction than Sting of the manticore offers.

For /eng TF is waaaay better than the snipe. It's really too bad TS only does 60% as much damage as TF for doms. Wish it was like the baster version that does 84% as much st damage I'd take a 3.24 DS thunderstrike (over the 2.35 version) with 22 sec rech...

I believe fulcrum will have its time under the knife one of these days.

Being able to double stacking 50% of the time with just SO's and almost perma double stacked with SO's + a power IN kinetics (siphon speed) just screams "nerf me"

I've run a mind/kin to 50 and a now deleted lvl 41 earth/kin and tbh not being damage capped after lvl 39 was an unusual experience solo, or teamed.

My prediction: buff duration cut to 30 sec. (debuff is already 30 sec hmm). Base recharge bumped to 90 sec.

Still be a great power, but that day is gonna be sad.

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Didn't they JUST do this by making imps ignore recharge?

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Recharge became irrelevant in this situation. When you summon new imps, it kills the old ones.

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Just noticed this ...I'm pretty sure they're talking about how fast the imp's attacks recharge, rather than how fast the imps themselves recharge

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You are correct, cause the imps was only using one attack because it recharged so fast.

It is a good fix(not nerf) not a bad one. It makes it so pets cycle through thier attacks now unlike before.

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Do they? I know this was the stated reason, but specifically what pets now function better than they did before?

Additionally, how is their output now compared to how it was when it was 'broken' when under recharge? (I'm thinking of bruiser now vs bruiser with ff rech proc in footstomp and rech improving IO's. And please don't cite that handclap is now better and makes the bruiser better, that change was independent of the recharge change).

Also, how did locking recharge benefit pets with a single or very few attacks?

Lastly, (and I know lolpvp) how did making pets immune to recharge debuffs help pvp?

I agree the change may have been necessary, but to wholesale call it "good" seems like something a koolaid drinker would say.

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Didn't they JUST do this by making imps ignore recharge?

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Recharge became irrelevant in this situation. When you summon new imps, it kills the old ones.

[/ QUOTE ]CEM means the recent change to make ALL pets immune to recharge buffs, meaning slotting */Rech IOs into your Summon Imps can't make them attack faster.

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Apparently the Rech Intensive Pet sets and the Soulbound set were never supposed to make pets attack faster.
*I know the dam/rech soulbound did nothing in my imps even before the pet recharge nerf, but that might have been because of the soulbound bug rather than the recharge not applying.

For imps specifically the pet recharge nerf is only felt when externally buffing them. ie speedboost, am, adrenalin. It's kind of a PO for anyone that specifically paired x w/ kinetics to specifically boost their pet (ie my earth/kin, deleted ). Pets with few, or minimal attacks, never seemed to encounter any cycling issues.

In fact the biggest factor affecting pet attack cycling is still present, which is if they pull out a weapon the chances of them behaving properly drops drastically.

Slipping attack speed recharge in via mixed non-pet IO's may have not have been working as intended, but I find it VERY hard to believe pets were not intended to benefit from being the target of a ally-targeted buff

Of course changing it so ALL pets could ONLY accept pet IO's and actually fixing the RIP sets would have been the ideal solution, but from the sounds of it the RIP sets are a nightmare to work with and the much simpler fix of altering the flag status is well... much simpler.

Plus that would have left pets still benefiting from speed boost and such and tbh pet centric toons are very powerful so flagging them takes care of that 'problem' at the same time.

I'm from Canada, they think I'm slow.

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I tried out Da_Captain's (I think) suggestion about EBs at range, and my Fire/Elec can (slowly) take out an EB using just Ring of Fire with range slotted, Build Up and Zapp. It's handy if I don't have the necessary purples. If I could get Voltaic Sentinel to attack at its full range it would be way faster.

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How dare you propose the use of Snipes AND ST immobs in the same post?! Your blasphemy knows no bounds!!! Burn the heretic!!!

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People are welcomed and encouraged to attempt fringe things. Sometimes it has payoffs, sometimes it fails.

I'm not sure how slowly "slowly" is, but I'm guessing it is pretty slow.

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qr

If I were reworking the visuals of dimshift I'd:

Make affected foes look (more) like singularity from gravity. They would clearly be experiencing some dimensional woes while still allerting people that enemies are present.

If I were reworking the mechanics of phased targets Id:

Make them untargetable unless you are on the same plane of existence.
*this might cause issues in pvp though.

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If y'all are insisting on altering DS's graphics, I think I'd shoot for "photo negative".

Bloody obvious, in theme (other dimension), and theoretically easy to code.

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I only suggested what I did because "singularity" already exists and I really don't think this issue warrants more than a minimum amount of time. Plus singularity the pet seems otherwordly enough to believe it isn't all in one dimension.

I'd vote sure for photo negative, but I can't recall anything that looks like that in the game currently and imo anything that recycles existing stuff is ftw in the dev's eyes

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Invisibe is a bad idea because not all mobs can get shifted based on how the person slots the power.

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1000 Stealth to target if target if PhaseShifted after a .5 second dellay

[/ QUOTE ]Its still a bad decision for invisible. I can see the team totally freaking out after the phase duration is over and all of sudden more critters appear.


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I thought everyone liked fighting nightwidows?

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Have it help since after Going Rogue everyone will probably just make Corrupters.


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Yeah. Because after containment, Controllers took all our jobs away. Now Corruptors are going to do the same with their 25% more damage and 25% weaker buffs and FIRE.

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In all fairness trollers don't play anything like defenders, but corrs do. Trollers take even longer than defs to get powerful too, which is a big detractor for many casual players. Corrs on the other hand... well the poster child in the game for early development is probably fire/dark

I've said before that once the dust settles from GR the game will have 6 prevailing AT's that occupy 80% of the population: (in no particular order)
Blasters, Brutes, Corrs, Trollers, Scraps, MM's.

That leaves:
Defs, Tanks, Doms, and Stalkers
Battling for the remaining 20%

*epics excluded

If I were feeling doomy, I'd say Defs have a very real chance of dropping down to 2nd least popular AT ahead of only Stalkers. Optimistically, I don't see them higher than 3rd least popular, so meh.

This sums up Silverado

Nice work.

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If I were reworking the visuals of dimshift I'd:

Make affected foes look (more) like singularity from gravity. They would clearly be experiencing some dimensional woes while still allerting people that enemies are present.

If I were reworking the mechanics of phased targets Id:

Make them untargetable unless you are on the same plane of existence.
*this might cause issues in pvp though.

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I'd consider lowering sleep to mag 6 though so a solo mind can still sleep an AV with masshyp+mezmerize. But mass sleeping multiple AV's is not working as intended.

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Mass Hypnosis and Mezmerise don't stack - the damage from mez breaks any previous sleeps. The only way to stack sleeps is to have 2 characters with non-damaging sleep powers which would make sleep basically useless in most of the cases being discussed here.

I always figured the fact that sleep broke instantly was being used to balance out the low mag sleep resistance even the toughest mobs tend to get.

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Sorry I typed that the wrong way, meant mesmerize+masshyp.

I maintain that oneshot anything'ing an AV is just silly.

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Don't get rid of the immob/sleep holes. They are the only way that control sets have to do something *all* the time, not just part of it. Controllers need to be able to immob PToD EB's to get containment while soloing, and sleeps are mind's only contribution while the PToD are up. As it stands, these two mez types being holes are *good* - they give control sets something to do which isn't too overpowering but still useful.

Also, you seen how much some AVs run away? Eeesh. Gotta be able to immob em.


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the immob and sleep holes are just evidence of poor design. I'd consider lowering sleep to mag 6 though so a solo mind can still sleep an AV with masshyp+mezmerize. But mass sleeping multiple AV's is not working as intended.

As for the immob hole, did you know my fire troller can stack in excess of 150 mag in immobs?
Some dominators can exceed mag 200! in immobs

Putting immob under the same classification as other mez using a similar model to mine would still result in any troller/dom immobing the AV for the majority of the fight with little effort. Just no more trivializing the experience with 1 immob every minute or a webnade from a scrapper

If not everyone could effortlessly immob an AV then a troller/dom bringing that value would increase their relative worth.

Actually, because AV's run so often (like you say) if you pretty much required a dom/troller to immob them that would make said toons very desirable.

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Personally, I would make use of whatever tech they did with blasters and the new defiance to make AVs who slowly become able to use fewer powers as mez is stacked. If you can break the PToD completely, they use no powers at all, like now. But if you can stack enough mag to get partway there, the av loses access to some of his powers. The breakpoint should probably be somewhere north of mag 10 - it should allow a well-slotted controller or dom to stack that much hold, but most other ATs would have a hard time (perhaps there could be a second breakpoint somewhere around mag 20 to 30 - designed for two toons to reach). The biggest problem with mezzes and AVs imo is the binary nature - either they're held, or they're not. The problem with alternating periods of vulnerability and invulnerability is that the uptime of the protection, not the strength of the mezzes, dictates the mitigation provided. There needs to be a system that allows for increasing levels of mitigation as the magnitude of hold stacked increases.

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I like this idea, but I sort of feel like most AV's only spam 2-3 attacks? This mechanic (or the idea of it) works on a player scale because when they start losing access to powers it is very tangible. With an AV using so few attacks I'm not sure how valuable the shutdown would be perceived to be as I think it would still feel very binary.

ex. Last time I solo'd Nightstar on my fire troller I one shot immobed her and killed her from full 80ft range, she just cycled 1 attack. If I moved closer she also started using a cone (energy torrent).

I think on paper it would be very valuable, but so is the current control mechanic vs ptod. I just have concerns about how it would be perceived by players in game.

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Alternatively, keep the vulnerability cycles, but instead of having the protection flicker back and forth between 0 and 50 in a binary fashion, have it scale up and down slowly. So, if you can only manage mag 6 of hold, the AV will only be held for 25 seconds, as now. But if you can stack mag 9, he'll be held for, say, 30s. If you've got 12, 35s, etc, etc, all the way up to being held the whole time at mag 50, as now.

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This is pretty much the same thing I suggested. The big exception is I think the vulnerability cycles need to go bye bye. I just stated faster cycle times as I prefer a more stop and go experience rather than prolonged periods of either being held or free. I'll just throw out a number, but anything over 10 seconds at a time (held or free) in an AV fight either means too boring, or not enough contribution respectively.

When you think about how debuffs are reduced specifically for AV's, it makes little sense that an AV could/would be perma held. If rad infection is not intended to make everyone invincible like it does against normal mobs, why should control?

IMO, no AV should ever have a vulnerability period, that just stinks of bad design. (well a thematic period works, like if an AV is being constructed, it makes sense it would be weaker before complete).

AV's should be tough. No one should be one shot ANYTHING'ing them (whether sleep, immob, kill, w/e).

A scrapper with a hold proc and pet gaze should NEVER be able to hold an AV, that is just silly. It should ALWAYS take a control specced build (ie troller/dom/ ice/ice/elec blaster) to ever mez an AV.

Want trivialized? watch a scrapper immob an AV with webnade; oh ya why is the dom here again?

AVs should almost never be mezzed for the majority of the time (exception being very control heavy teams). Statue AV's are as boring as they get.

AV's should almost never be unmezzed for long periods of time (ie current 50 sec up, 25 down of ptod). It makes control toons feel inadequate.

Seriously a stop and go system is probably the best solution for an all in one AV fix. Stop and go was implemented into pvp so that control would never feel useless, but opposition could still function without ever being reduced to a statue.

I think that sums up how AV encounters should go too albeit with a bit longer held periods than is seen in pvp currently.

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But if you can stack enough mag to get partway there, the av loses access to some of his powers.

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Or, by adding stackable -rech to Controllers/Dom...ah, I give up. No one listens to me.

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We listen, they'd need to remove or lower the -rech resistance.

A cold corr w/ Heatloss, snowstorm, sleet and infrig end up doing 69% -rech so not even -rech capping an even con AV. It just gets worse against +con. Ya that's a lot of mitigation, but it is also 460% -rech!!!!

heh, I saw the words: gimp, ranged, earth, and dom and didn't come out of the blackout until about 10 mins ago.

Just a bit of info for fun. When MagicJ tested all the troller primaries earth actually did ok at st damage. I can't recall just how well, but nowhere near the bottom for a decent build.

Stoney is a monster, easily the second most damaging dom pet and not all that far behind 3 imps amazingly enough.

For damage stalags are useless, it is proc'd stone cages, proc'd sand, proc'd VG and the -res proc in quake.

It's honestly pretty decent, not as good as fire with hotfeet, but nothing is (then again hotfeet doesn't do squat when you are 80ft from the enemy ). I haven't played a perma creepers plant before but I have a feeling earth is right there with that set for damage.