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I dont know that it will increase dom popularity. I still see people really huffing and puffing on a middleaged dom. You were spot on,River. You said something to the effect of players saying " Nerf doms moar!!" or something.Aint that the truth with these changes on a mature dominator build? I am glad for yesterdays patch. Hopefully the scale down will alleviate some of the outcry by the masses.
I need to pop to test and checkout the 16 cap on psw. I have a feeling that may be problematic for my current build if I dont adjust it.I dont want to piss off 16 baddies and be unable to defeat them before they realize I am there. 
Happy hunting Dom Boards!
edited because I realized I haven't play the new patch on my fire//psi yet.
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I suspect that nothing we see on the test server can be taken as a statement one way or the other as to how the changes will affect dom popularity once they go live. To few people read these boards and/or play on the test server to get a good sample population.
I do know that the live servers will get at least one new regular dom player when these go live - me. The current crop of changes clears up the one thing that kept me from playing a dom - the anemic damage during the high teens outside of domination. I have been trying to play and like dom's since CoV first came out and at low levels have enjoyed them considerably - but as the AT mods started to kick in during the high teens I would get more and more frustrated and eventually quit. I got several dominators up to 16-17 and let them languish there for months (years in one case). I have since then copied them over to test and find them a joy to play even in that level range.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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Personally I run a Ice/Elec dom and it seems the buffs actually do a good deal of help with my playstle since i burn through so much end popping off a cluster(censored) of attacks and holds.With the new changes in place I can actually pop off even more attacks than before and inflict more damage overall.
As far as the permadom goes it's sad to lose the damage buff domination gave however i'm fine with it since we instead get it as part of our base damage.It's nice to know that the resistances still stack with permadom active and stacked.
Unlike what your describing I actually read the changes to the dom sets and overally I like it.Just don't expect me to rill a /psi dom anytime soon (never did care for that set anyway.)
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Ditzy...err...Southern Comfort said:
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For the record ,everything I predicted when these changes were in the speculation stage has come to fruition. Isn't my problem you arent astute enough to recognize that FACT.
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This was sent ot me in a PM, but now I'm ignored (yay me!) so I could not respond. Instead, I wanted to post it so everyone here could get a nice chuckle.
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Most of what Ditzy did say in that thread was accurate. Some of it was hard to understand as she was quite upset, but that didn't change the accuracy.
Most of what I said in that thread was accurate too:
-I predicted the exact changes to /eng
-I predicted the changes to psy and how it would rank releative to the other sets. (didn't predict he'd put scream and psw on melee modifier to offset it though 
)
-I predicted this wouldn't change the perception that high recharge is the most desireable build. And it hasn't.
The last prediction I made is that these changes won't have an overwhelming result on dominator popularity. I still stand behind that. They've been designed to be a solo AT now more than ever, but they are nowhere near the top of the solo list. Doms need to become a popular team AT to significantly increase numbers, these changes move them in the opposite direction.
Ditzy was saying a lot of the same things as me, it was just hard to understand them as she was understandably quite upset.
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The last prediction I made is that these changes won't have an overwhelming result on dominator popularity. I still stand behind that. They've been designed to be a solo AT now more than ever, but they are nowhere near the top of the solo list. Doms need to become a popular team AT to significantly increase numbers, these changes move them in the opposite direction.
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I don't believe Dominators could become a popular team AT in the way in which you wish unless their Secondary is changed into something else. Defenders have the same issue. Their role in a team is to deal supplemental damage. Many players, however, either do not want them to deal that damage, or want their role to be something else.
These Power changes don't really address the problem of a Dominator's role on a team, although it does make it more consistent. It is really more of a use in making all the Power Sets equally soloable.
I also don't think these changes will do much for dom popularity. Sure, they're going to lead to an initial surge in players coming to try them out. And yeah, I fully expect some of them to stick around and then nauseate me by posting here about how awesome this AT 'is' and wondering aloud why they never thought that way before.
However, doms still have low HP, which is contrary to fighting in melee. They will still have incomplete attack chains until their 30s, which is made worse by the increase in recharge times. They will still have weak AoE control capability until their late 20s when they can 5 slot with SO-grade enhancements. And I think with the added endurance costs, you might just well be able to toss that on the list of pre-20 complaints.
And worst of the bunch is by increasing dom soloability with more ST dmg, the shock of teaming with the above-mentioned shortcomings (all of which are accentuated on teams) is going to create a complaintfest worse than any you've heard yet.
So I can pretty much guarantee there'll be a lot of hype followed by a large dropoff in dominators. In the end, we'll boost dom popularity perhaps to solid 4th place redside (ahead of stalkers), but when it comes right down to it corruptors, brutes and MMs will still be the Big 3 teaming ATs.
Please buff Ice Control.
True.. however villian players are much less dependent on the "team" dichotamy thats the predominant standard on Heroside. I am not sure if its a way of thinking or that the hero AT's are REALLY that substandard compared to villians.
I agree with the prediction that the changes will not increase dom popularity longterm. Even with the patch yesterday perma is still greatly a necessity because of the reasons myself and many other players have stated.
I disagree with homogenization but I see that is the path we are on for all archetypes both Villian and Hero.
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True.. however villian players are much less dependent on the "team" dichotamy thats the predominant standard on Heroside.
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That's also true. But I don't think redside is the target population for these changes, do you? To boost the population (stated goal) you need to draw from a new playerbase (bluesiders or newbs). Blueside prefers teaming, no? And I don't see many new players to the game until maybe Going Rogue comes out in a few months.
Please buff Ice Control.
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However, doms still have low HP, which is contrary to fighting in melee.
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I don't think there is any way Doms will get more hit points. They may get boosted to the level of Corruptors, but I doubt they would get the hit points of Blasters or Stalkers. For one thing, they have plenty of Control powers to make sure a foe is locked down before they get into melee, for another, they have ranged attacks, allowing them to stay out of melee.
Dominators are not really intended to be in melee, like a Scrapper or Brute, they are intended to be at close range, just outside of melee range, but close enough to use a Cone or PBAoE.
And honestly, the HP buff to Blasters did very little to help them. (It did help Stalkers, but that's because they have defensive powers to multiply their effective HP) It was really nothing more than for show. An extra 7% hit points isn't really going to mean much to the average hit.
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I agree with the prediction that the changes will not increase dom popularity longterm. Even with the patch yesterday perma is still greatly a necessity because of the reasons myself and many other players have stated.
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I don't think the elimination of permadom was really the intended goal. I also don't really think permadom is the reason Dominations have proven unpopular. High IO slotting is still quite powerful, to any AT.
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The last prediction I made is that these changes won't have an overwhelming result on dominator popularity. I still stand behind that. They've been designed to be a solo AT now more than ever, but they are nowhere near the top of the solo list. Doms need to become a popular team AT to significantly increase numbers, these changes move them in the opposite direction.
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I don't believe Dominators could become a popular team AT in the way in which you wish unless their Secondary is changed into something else. Defenders have the same issue. Their role in a team is to deal supplemental damage. Many players, however, either do not want them to deal that damage, or want their role to be something else.
These Power changes don't really address the problem of a Dominator's role on a team, although it does make it more consistent. It is really more of a use in making all the Power Sets equally soloable.
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I know and said just that. To become popular they need an actual revamp, but for w/e reason Castle has specifically stated no power substitutions, or changing the basic principle of a power.
I disagree that their role in a team is supplemental damage. It used to be. But now they have been deemed dual role by the dev team. Dual role means they should be able to play either role effectively. Unfortunately aoe damage rules the roost in teams, and doms are st specialists.
As such will never become popular in teams as damage dealers. And their primaries remain unchanged, which struggled to gain grip as incentive enough to make them popular in teams. Basically the perception that crowd control is anti brute and that it is overall less desirable than buff/debuff. Of course that perception is grounded in accuracy.
Ergo, no meaningful shift in popularity of doms in team scenarios.
And they will still be less popular than brutes, MM's, and probably stalkers for solo play. So no significant jump in solo popularity despite becoming very awesome solo.
Result: no significant increase in dominator popularity. And one could take the position that they were changed for change sake...But that will be a hindsight argument to be had in a year or so 
I'm going to bite here and cross my fingers that it doesnt go awry.
Dominators all have a damage secondary chalk full of melee attacks. Why in the world would a dominator NOT be considered a melee archetype?
Bigger Hp was one of the suggestions I voiced in the " speculation" phase. 1606 cap is too low for what dominator's do. In fact? If the hp cap had been raised and everything else had minimal adjustments than the feel of the dominator would have been the same but with more survivability for layman players. After all the developers spent a good number of issues improving dom performance by buffing the means to build domination.
I have always objected to the complete change of the feel of the archetype. I dont like it at all but can certainly live with it. I simply wish the dom "looksee" hadnt ended in a total "revamp". I like my old carpet. Stanley Steamer would have been just fine instead of putting in hardwood floors.
Is of no consequence. The path is set.
On an aside these changes benefit me as a player greatly. I am the odd chick that has alot of high level perma doms. Dealing good st damage is something I welcome. I like multitasking and fast, hard play. My characters will likely be deemed overpowered because of my playstyle. When the casuals run across others who play doms fast and hard the cry of " the chanages were too much" will role in. Ha!! I just had a thought........ maybe thats why DOMINATORS have STALKER hp cap? Lol!!!
See one main problem is that Dom's need to use melee range in the early levels because fighting from range leaves long periods of doing nothing.
However, it takes until at least the mid 20's (earlier for say plant, later for grav) before their control powers can support them standing in melee.
Late game doms with mature controls and assault powers are awesome on live and potentially more awesome on test.
Doms are pretty useless if they don't take and use their melee attacks in the early levels when they team, but at level 15 their controls aren't good enough for them to be in melee range when teaming so they faceplant.
That of course hasn't changed between live or test and will continue to be a sore spot for the AT.
Experience players can overcome that weakness by jumping in and out of melee. It works very well, just as it works very well for blasters. It is of course not something that can be expected of a casual player and falls under the same line of reasoning made by the people that used to be able to milk old defiance.
Amazing if you can do it, but the avg player can't. So it needs to be changed.
Interestingly enough, I'd like to take a crack at old defiance on blasters now that you can so easily build for plus defense. I think it would be very fun (but again not casual friendly, just something I think would be fun to try out).
Ok? So you want travel suppression in PVE?
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I'm going to bite here and cross my fingers that it doesnt go awry.
Dominators all have a damage secondary chalk full of melee attacks. Why in the world would a dominator NOT be considered a melee archetype?
Bigger Hp was one of the suggestions I voiced in the " speculation" phase. 1606 cap is too low for what dominator's do. In fact? If the hp cap had been raised and everything else had minimal adjustments than the feel of the dominator would have been the same but with more survivability for layman players. After all the developers spent a good number of issues improving dom performance by buffing the means to build domination.
I have always objected to the complete change of the feel of the archetype. I dont like it at all but can certainly live with it. I simply wish the dom "looksee" hadnt ended in a total "revamp". I like my old carpet. Stanley Steamer would have been just fine instead of putting in hardwood floors.
Is of no consequence. The path is set.
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I think that the majority of dom assault sets struggle with ranged chains until lvl 38 and the fact that the melee attacks are HIGHLY attractive to either fill chains or deliver very powerful damage is a pretty clear indication that most people are going to feel pressure to stand at melee range.
As I said though, it usually isn't until the mid 20's or later that most doms have the primary developed enough to do that on teams, but using melee attacks becomes ingrained into their playstyle as early as level 4.
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I'm going to bite here and cross my fingers that it doesnt go awry.
Dominators all have a damage secondary chalk full of melee attacks. Why in the world would a dominator NOT be considered a melee archetype?
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Blasters have a damage Secondary chock full of melee attacks. (Except Devices, and they can still deal damage with their Secondary, it's just mines placed to go off later) That doesn't make Blasters a melee Archetype.
As I said, Stalkers get a great benefit from the added HP, since they have defensive powers that can reduce some of the incoming damage. On a team, Dominators should be able to gain some defenses as well, if a teammate buffs them, or debuffs the foes. The higher HP cap might come in handy, in that case, since you might have a teammate which can buff your HP as well. (Right now that would be Cold Domination, so a Corruptor, or a Defender if you're in a co-op zone)
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Ok? So you want travel suppression in PVE,Jade?
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Of course not. If a Dominator was unable to jump in and out of melee, then obviously it would have to have more hit points. Meleers do not jump in and out of melee, though. Only Blasters and Doms do that. (Well, there was the old days of "jousting" with Super Speed, but I don't know if I would call that meleeing)
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I disagree that their role in a team is supplemental damage. It used to be. But now they have been deemed dual role by the dev team. Dual role means they should be able to play either role effectively. Unfortunately aoe damage rules the roost in teams, and doms are st specialists.
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Which is why they will only be supplemental damage, and not primary damage. In order to deal AoE damage, or extreme ST damage, the Dom will have to get close to melee range. At least they will do MORE damage, now, than they did previously. Or at least, they will outside of Domination.
Well, in truth the changes to most of the Power Sets should also make them do more damage than they had done in Domination, although at the cost of more Endurance. I'm not sure that's why that was changed, though. As I said, I feel that's more aimed to soloability than team role.
Dominator Hp cap is 1606. Same as stalkers. Y'all didnt know that?
As to dual role I never played a dominator any other way than that. Maybe if more "casual" players wrapped their minds around the nuances this whole kit n kaboodle would just be a bad dream.........
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Dominator Hp cap is 1606. Same as stalkers. Y'all didnt know that?
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I never said I didn't know that. In fact, I said that on a team it would be possible for a Dominator to get an HP boost.
O rly........ well yay!!! Stalkers get crits... doms do not. Dominator's need more hp.
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O rly........ well yay!!! Stalkers get crits... doms do not. Dominator's need more hp.
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Heh. I guess that's as good a logic as any.
(And actually, I always said Domination should have been a Crit, but that would have made the difference between the two even GREATER. Maybe like a 50% Crit, though? After modifiers?)
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The last prediction I made is that these changes won't have an overwhelming result on dominator popularity. I still stand behind that. They've been designed to be a solo AT now more than ever, but they are nowhere near the top of the solo list. Doms need to become a popular team AT to significantly increase numbers, these changes move them in the opposite direction.
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I don't believe Dominators could become a popular team AT in the way in which you wish unless their Secondary is changed into something else. Defenders have the same issue. Their role in a team is to deal supplemental damage. Many players, however, either do not want them to deal that damage, or want their role to be something else.
These Power changes don't really address the problem of a Dominator's role on a team, although it does make it more consistent. It is really more of a use in making all the Power Sets equally soloable.
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I've been trying to say the exact same thing. But I was never able to put it as succinctly as you two have. I think Dominators ST damage will be amazing once this on live. Dom's wont' fear a Boss (or even an EB) when soloing as much. Will this increase the popularity? Or will even change public perception of Dom's as "hard to play". My vote is probably not. However, those folks looking for a "CoV Blaster" might be drawn to doms. Since the AT now effectively has two primaries, Control and Damage.
I predict we will see more "veteran" players (who'd already mastered doms) coming back to play the AT. I also predict with these buffs they are going to pull off some amazing stunts, which will probably end in a call for nerfs.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Duh?
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I suspect that nothing we see on the test server can be taken as a statement one way or the other as to how the changes will affect dom popularity once they go live. To few people read these boards and/or play on the test server to get a good sample population.
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Many people don't even read patch notes - they won't know anything's changed at all, except they might notice they do a bit more damage or a power recharges more slowly than it does now. Most people, if they find out at all, will find out by word of mouth.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I'm going to bite here and cross my fingers that it doesnt go awry.
Dominators all have a damage secondary chalk full of melee attacks. Why in the world would a dominator NOT be considered a melee archetype?
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Blasters have a damage Secondary chock full of melee attacks. (Except Devices, and they can still deal damage with their Secondary, it's just mines placed to go off later) That doesn't make Blasters a melee Archetype.
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Blasters were specifically adjusted not so long ago to feel less pressure to use melee attacks. It was part of their fix.
We aren't saying Dominators are a melee archetype, just that they are often pushed into melee range to play, similar to how blasters used to be.
I'm specifically saying doms have a lot more tools than blasters to make melee safe, but those tools usually aren't developed until the mid20's. Unfortunately the pressure to utilize melee attacks begins at lvl 4 for many doms.
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I suspect that nothing we see on the test server can be taken as a statement one way or the other as to how the changes will affect dom popularity once they go live. To few people read these boards and/or play on the test server to get a good sample population.
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Many people don't even read patch notes - they won't know anything's changed at all, except they might notice they do a bit more damage or a power recharges more slowly than it does now. Most people, if they find out at all, will find out by word of mouth.
[/ QUOTE ]Unless it gets mentioned in the gmotd. And if people aren't reading that, well, [censored] them.
I dont know that it will increase dom popularity. I still see people really huffing and puffing on a middleaged dom. You were spot on,River. You said something to the effect of players saying " Nerf doms moar!!" or something.Aint that the truth with these changes on a mature dominator build? I am glad for yesterdays patch. Hopefully the scale down will alleviate some of the outcry by the masses.
I need to pop to test and checkout the 16 cap on psw. I have a feeling that may be problematic for my current build if I dont adjust it.I dont want to piss off 16 baddies and be unable to defeat them before they realize I am there.
Happy hunting Dom Boards!
edited because I realized I haven't play the new patch on my fire//psi yet.