People can't make legs

On slow days at work - slow days like today - I like to pass the time by going around the 'net and collecting ideas about costumes for my current and future characters. There is a place that I cannot discuss that has a large collection of super hero and quasi-super-hero costumes, all there neatly aligned for my viewing pleasure... Or displeasure, as the case may be. They are all in waist-up mugshots, with an option to display the character full-size. At first I was shocked how a character who looked so good waist-up looks like total crap overall, but over time I began to notice a pattern.

See, I thought people at large just sucked at making costumes. It seems, however, that for the most part they are very GOOD at making half of a costume - the upper half. More than once I've seen a waist-up mugshot and been very impressed. Almost everybody, however, seems to suck at making the same costume's bottom half - the legs. Why I don't know. Maybe I have so mutated, oddball idea of what lower body aesthetic should be, but it has been EXCEEDINGLY rare that I've seen a costume good both above and below the waist. In fact, look at our very own game and how little attention it pays on our lower bodies. Pick just about any upper body type and you get over half a dozen sections: shoulders, chest, chest detail, gloves, belt, jacket, sleeves, etc. Pick almost any lower body type, however, and marvel at the all of TWO sections - upper and lower legs. No ornaments, no details... Not even the BELT is there. Our upper body has holsters and straps and metal plates and so forth, but our lower body can only ever have... Well, boots and one other thing. Tights, panties, pants, armour - the selection of ONE OTHER THING isn't too small, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it's... Well, only one other thing.

I've really had my fill of this, looking at other people's work. For instance, I'd see a woman in a very cool suit of armour with an open-face helmet. Then I'd look at the character full-height and she's wearing a skirt with fishnet stockings over bare legs and strappy high-heel shoes. Or the big, hulking, tank-top-wearing muscleman will inexplicably have bare cloven feet and a single metal leg for no reason. I guess in the spirit of Mighty Mouse's Cow, most people view super heroes as 90% chest, 5% head, 5% legs, but this isn't even related to comic books, but over-exaggerates children's cartoons.

I've worked with characters I wanted to make giant in the past. I asked around and almost everybody suggested I make the legs very short to make the character look stubby and chunky. I went the opposite way, however, giving a heavy-built, tall character longer legs because that made him look taller still, as if towering over characters who were actually taller than him. I've asked and ask, repeatedly and many times, for the addition of at least one pair of boots that was truly big, as opposed to just having bigger calves. At some point, probably for his own reasons, Jay gave us the Enforcer set, granting us the ONLY boots that were truly big in the right places, but they remain the only ones.

The point, I suppose, is that it seems people design their characters from the head down to the waist, and then throw in some legs because... Well, the character has to have something to walk with. It creates a sense of discontinuity between upper and lower body so very often, ruining a character who would have looked perfect if his or her legs were never shown. And it bugs me, because I've been forced to give so many characters I thought I liked just one or two muscle men, when I wanted to give them four or five...

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Maybe this thread should be re-titled: "I'm a Leg Man."

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Maybe this thread should be re-titled: "I'm a Leg Man."

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Possibly, but it's applicable to both men and women. In fact, by far the biggest thing that can turn me off a character is when it seems their pelvis is two feet tall. It REALLY distorts the frame.

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What, er, extra bits do you suggest for the legs, Sam?

I can think of holsters with tie offs, kneepads, ww2-style flying pants (with those wide flaps at upper thigh sort of look) and more skirty things like tutus and ra-ra skirts etc.

In RL, are there more ways to decorate a torso than there are for legs?

Eco

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

Holsters are one big thing, yes, but just general upper leg details would be groovy. Armour pads, holsters, belts and straps, extra pockets... There are quite a few things that could be there.

You mentioned knee pads, and I have to agree with that. The one set of boots we have with sin guards - Justice (or is that two with Sinister?) - make a LOT more looks possible than any of the other boots ever could. Jay seems to have noticed this, as well, as newer boots tend to have at least a little knee detain over just the simple flat circle that divides the lower leg from the upper leg.

Lower leg details would also be really cool, though perhaps only applicable to base boot models like Smooth and Flat. For instance, I see Fins and Spikes as things that would be more appropriate to a detail category, not as separate boot models. As well, things like metal plates, higher shin guards, spikes in other directions or even those pointy star things cowboys wear on their boots to prod their horses as they ride

The fact of the matter is that, while you can have a plate over a bare chest, you can't have plates over bare legs, and that bugs me.

Generally, though, it just seems to me that people don't pay much attention to what they do for the lower body, and even less attention into how it ties with the upper body or what the character looks like as a whole. Obviously not everyone does that, as evidenced by the many, many good designs we have in this game, but as surprisingly high number of people spend all their time on the chest, then slap together a legs combo at the end.

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I try really hard to make my characters legs flow with the rest of the costume. The major problem I've been running into is: Even if you use the same pattern and the same colors, the colors don't match up. You could have a vibrant red on the torso and go to make a pair of boots the same color and it looks washed out, like they left their boots in the sun and they faded. And it's not even consistent, some boots do it, some don't. The Justice boots are a great example. Try and make then as red as your chest piece, you can't do it because the boots look faded.

Just pointing out that the legs looking like crap isn't always the players fault.

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What, er, extra bits do you suggest for the legs, Sam?

I can think of holsters with tie offs, kneepads, ww2-style flying pants (with those wide flaps at upper thigh sort of look) and more skirty things like tutus and ra-ra skirts etc.

In RL, are there more ways to decorate a torso than there are for legs?

Eco

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Kneepads are a start.

I can think of a few:
- Strap on weapons ( knifes, etc. )
- Chains ( like they do the arms and chest )
- Barbed wire
- Vines / Leafs ( my plant controller would love this )
- Tattoos
- More robotic leg options
- Skeletal legs ( also arms and torso, for the Necro MMs )
- Metal exo skeletons on either or both sides of the leg ( for the bionic type of hero )
- Rikti type leg options ( not to mention for the torso and arms )

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131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )

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Just pointing out that the legs looking like crap isn't always the players fault.

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My complaint is rarely colour, more so shape and design. I've actually gone into a long argument about it with a friend of mine and there really is no clear answer as to which way is right. But when I see a heavily-armoured torso with a metal helmet that ends up in tattered pants and bare legs... I burn with hatred. Or a woman in a formal suit with a tie, then miniskirt, full-length fishnet stockings and thigh-high leather boots. Yikes! Granted, with our game a more generic lower body model is pretty much mandatory because we don't actually HAVE that much esoteric stuff to use, but not all games are as demanding. And I seem to have somehow missed all the hordes of women in heavy leather jackets, yet running around in their panties in this game. I count myself lucky over it.

To my eyes, this seems to be the most common manifestation of what I consider to be an overall problem of character design - people simply don't appear to stop and look at how all the pieces they've chosen go together as a uniform whole. Far too many times I've seen characters with well-designed jackets or well-designed pants or well-designed helmets, each of which I'd like to use... Yet stuck on the most inappropriate body.

This has turned around to bite me in the butt so many times as I make a selection of pieces that work incredibly well together, yet cannot fit into the costume's theme because the other pieces I need to do so are either missing or ugly. For instance, I love the Cyborg gloves and upper arms, even the upper legs, but I HATE the bare-feet-look lower legs, so I always have to come up with a different design to match the exposed Cyborg hands against, boots of some kind. On the flip side, I LOVE the Valkyrie boots, but I HATE the Valkyrie gloves, so I almost always have to miss-match them. The last time I did that I matched them with fingerless Padded gloves.

And don't even get me started on the horrors that people do with misusing the wrong Tops and Bottoms with Skin for women. Ugh! It's like the Pocket D tailor, only WORSE!

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For the Cyborg legs I use Piston Boots.

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I agree whole heartily. I really wish we had more options for our legs.


PS: I love the Valkyrie boots as well and hate the gloves, I use the unarmored version of the gloves but still...just not the same...

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@Jeffery Duke
Meanwhile...On The Internet...

I like the gloves, I just hate the fact that I cannot get the colors to match up. I had a character who was dressed in dark red with black and gold trim. The main checkered pattern was dark red and the boots, shoulders, and gloves were black with gold trim. When I applied that color scheme to the gloves the checker pattern that I wanted to match up with the dark red on the rest of the costume turned yellow and there was nothing I could do about it. This was with the baggy version of the Valkyrie pattern btw, I used the whole set. looked great except for the glove colors.

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QR

Thigh Pads for Legs please! Like Lord Recluse wears. What I wouldn't give for some Fing thigh pads!

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Completely agreed on the Thigh pads. Our upper bodies have no less than three separate places to put details on, our lower bodies have none. They don't have a fraction of the options overall, either. I really can't blame people for slapping them together if there isn't all that much to work with.

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/signed


I'd like more options for skirts.. for one something similar to what Sister Solaris wears in the ITF and in various lengths. I understand the mechanics for having long flowing gowns or robes doesn't work, apparently, but that is only becaus they design everything to be worn by every AT and powerset. SO of course its impossible for an MA/ Scrapper to perform kicks etc wearing something like that.. OKAY so then maybe the PLAYER sould realize that and NOT use it if it was available.

Stockings.. currently we have 2 options thigh high fish nets and full fish nets so if I want my character to "look" like she is wearing normal ones I have to use tights. How about leg warmers? Or how about ankle length sock instead of just knee highs?

As for shoes why can't we get, I am speaking primarily for female characters BTW, ankle high boots. Or furry ones .. I'd like to see a whole cave man/ woman style outfit available including furry boots.

I'm like you Sam I sort of agonize over my character's look..thank goodness for free tokens and Vet rewards. LOL One of my oldest characters is Wicked Wendy and I changed her look so much it became a running joke in my old, and now defunct, SG. I actually had one older character that just sort of sat there while others passed her by and continued to level. I finally realized I hated the way she looked and was't playing her because of it. I went in and did a omplete make over for hair, skin type, and clothing and she a level 45 now. LOL

Most of this isn't new .. It's been asked for on Jay's page for some time but I understand the entire staff of Dev's can't drop everything else and spend 6 months just making outfits. And they are trying .. I am happy with the new faces coming out because frankly there are about 4 or 5 I like so most of my characters look like clones. And the male faces were needed badly. I do have a few male characters.. hey if guys can run around playing females heroes I can have a couple male ones LOL The male face options really sucked and I would spend considerable time in scales playing with noses, chins, etc so at least they all dodn't look exactly the same.

All we can do is keep asking and keep watching for new stuff with every issue. But I do hope they come out with some different items soon for variety. Oh and keep bugging on the forum as well... JAY CAN YOU HEAR US

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�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

QR

Did I hear something about a completely revamped costume maker coming? I think it was in the Going Rogue announcement. Did I just imagine that?

Maybe, just maybe, they'll finally expand the legs section and add a bunch more details all over. That would be cool.

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Yeah, I find the lower body options to quite limited and that has made me scrap more than one potential character. One thing I'd really love is a separation of shoes from the lower leg slot.

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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!

[ QUOTE ]
QR

Did I hear something about a completely revamped costume maker coming? I think it was in the Going Rogue announcement. Did I just imagine that?

Maybe, just maybe, they'll finally expand the legs section and add a bunch more details all over. That would be cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? This sounds amazing if it's true!!

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I understand the mechanics for having long flowing gowns or robes doesn't work, apparently, but that is only becaus they design everything to be worn by every AT and powerset. SO of course its impossible for an MA/ Scrapper to perform kicks etc wearing something like that..

[/ QUOTE ]A long skirt/dress slit up the side could still work and seem reasonable.

Agreed with the rest -- more leg options, please.

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I'd like to have asymmetrical options in the costume creator.

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I want codpieces.

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In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.

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Oh dear $deity, yes. I have been aching for more options for the legs ever since I made my first few characters. I mean, we can put things on our shoulders, heads, chests, and belts, but nothing whatsoever on our legs. I have wished so many times that I could put shin guards, thigh plates, or wrist guards (over the top of other patterns, anyway) on a character. My plant controller would really love to be able to extend her leaf motif to her legs, and two different MA baddies recently who are supposed to be covered in green spikes would love to be able to put them on their legs too.

And ditto on separating the shoes and lower legs. There is at least one boot (cant remember which one right now) which has a nice sandal on the foot, but heck if I want the lower leg that comes with it. I just want to be able to give her a sandal (bare feet are a bit much in a city) without covering up her lower leg and the pattern that she has on her skin. Ditto, I would love to give her a costume version with shin, thigh, and arm pads to go with her shoulder pads, but no dice.

Really, I think a *lot* of costume options should become 'chest detail' style options, just so that you can put them over the top of another customized piece. There's no reason that the wrist bracers for females, for example, couldn't be part of a 'wrist detail' category so that you could put them over the top of something besides bare, unpatterned hands (ditto the pad from the 'justice with pad' gloves). Several boots have shin guard type pieces as separate geometry on top of a more standard 'smooth' leg mesh (i.e. justice with pad), and those should also work in a 'lower leg detail' on top of any normal patterned leg (say bare legs). Etc, etc. Obviously you'd have to restrict such things based on the base leg, shin, or glove chosen, like no thigh plates on top of an 'armored' leg or shin detail on top of enforcer boots, but there would be a *lot* of new options that could be opened up.

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@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.

This is what it means to be a tank!

Monsterous legs under kilts/skirts please.

But yeah it's true we need more options in the legs area. As it stands it's two parts - three for females who choose certain options. Boots, legs. That's all we get. Upper body gets Chest, Shoulder, Gloves, Chest Detail, Belt, and among those some other options if taking certain parts.

Knee options, ankle options perhaps, multiple layers, and new combinations that even if they clip I'd still want. More different monsterous legs would be nice, too, and patterns on the hoof/foot areas that *match the upper one*.

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed

And it seems to be a feat of the gods to get anything other than knee-high boots. I mean, men can't even wear simple sneakers and shorts without having the stupid knee-high socks. Who wears socks that high?

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Consider me signed for more leg details as long as it doesn't end up with Rob Liefeld style pouches everywhere.

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[ QUOTE ]
QR

Did I hear something about a completely revamped costume maker coming? I think it was in the Going Rogue announcement. Did I just imagine that?

Maybe, just maybe, they'll finally expand the legs section and add a bunch more details all over. That would be cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? This sounds amazing if it's true!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah well I can't find it now to save my life. I must have been smoking something.

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