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Well Solo means just that...you dont have people around to tick off so you can play at your own pace...a team is just that, a TEAM. Just like when I was in the Army, they pretty much beat it into our heads (and our muscles) that there is no "I" in team. you stick with the team, you follow the leader and you do what your told.
I too would kick someone from a team if they pulled solo crap on me, and I would urge the leader to do the same if I wasnt the team leader.
Yes, this IS a game, and games are meant to have fun in, but reclessly endangering your "TEAM" makes the rest of the team usualy annoied. Which means that they arent having fun.
Sure, some of you can solo ITF, if thats your bag of tea, then you have no need for a team. Go get a bunch of fillers for your ITF or what ever and boot them when yoru ready, dont endanger everyone else and make it UNFUN for the rest of the people.
Thats my 2inf
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Yes, because every organized unit operates by walking in huddles groups within arms reach of one another. Last I checked, team work did not require holding hands. I fail to see why people insist the only viable teaming option is for 8 people to aim at the same target. In a game where so called support characters can clear 8-man spawned missions single handedly; folks still insist running missions like a mobile campfire. This isn't Voltron or Captain Planet. You're not going to turn into some giant super powered robot by holding each other's tails and ears.
Declaring you take the spawn on the right while I take the 3 on the left is still teamwork.
SI Radio has many DJs and listeners whom hold City of Heroes close to their hearts. We will be supporting many efforts to keep CoH ALIVE!!
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Well Solo means just that...you dont have people around to tick off so you can play at your own pace...a team is just that, a TEAM. Just like when I was in the Army, they pretty much beat it into our heads (and our muscles) that there is no "I" in team. you stick with the team, you follow the leader and you do what your told.
I too would kick someone from a team if they pulled solo crap on me, and I would urge the leader to do the same if I wasnt the team leader.
Yes, this IS a game, and games are meant to have fun in, but reclessly endangering your "TEAM" makes the rest of the team usualy annoied. Which means that they arent having fun.
Sure, some of you can solo ITF, if thats your bag of tea, then you have no need for a team. Go get a bunch of fillers for your ITF or what ever and boot them when yoru ready, dont endanger everyone else and make it UNFUN for the rest of the people.
Thats my 2inf
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Yes, because every organized unit operates by walking in huddles groups within arms reach of one another. Last I checked, team work did not require holding hands. I fail to see why people insist the only viable teaming option is for 8 people to aim at the same target. In a game where so called support characters can clear 8-man spawned missions single handedly; folks still insist running missions like a mobile campfire. This isn't Voltron or Captain Planet. You're not going to turn into some giant super powered robot by holding each other's tails and ears.
Declaring you take the spawn on the right while I take the 3 on the left is still teamwork.
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See, he said Army...
We Marines are scrappers. I endorse the scrapper mindset. If you all can do it without dragging anyone down... go for it.
I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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If I was team leader and you were running unnecessarily quickly into battle and putting the rest of the team to any kind of risk, I would give you three warnings before kicking you from the team....
Once you are on a team, it isn't just about you. You aren't solo. You are part of a team. Act like it.
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I've never actually been kicked or warned by a team leader for doing things the Scrapper way nor have I had anyone quit over it. In general, people like high performance toons.
Then again, I don't play on the lower IQ servers.
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Ayup. I've been the team leader without being the alpha taker and had a scrapper (or BLASTER) start super-ceding the regular alpha. I don't get my undergarments wet over it. I think, and if they're genuinely trying to move the group faster, I suggest letting them lead. If they're not doing a good job, I suggest not following them. Things usually work themselves out.
Leadership is not about using the star like a hammer.
[/ QUOTE ]I have been that blaster. And that controller, and that defender, and...
well, you get the idea. The one good thing that comes from me being the type to naturally jump in headfirst is that I do this with my tanks (both of them I can actually stand playing) as well, so if I'm tanking for a team, it won't be going slow.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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See, he said Army...
We Marines are scrappers. I endorse the scrapper mindset. If you all can do it without dragging anyone down... go for it.
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Love it 
As a Marine too, I endorse the scrapper mindset too.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
There's only two times when my team is recklessly endangered by my actions. 1) When they don't listen when I warn them about rushing in with me an they can't handle it and 2) When I'm on a support character and decide, for whatever reason, my team deserves to die. #2 doesn't count here and so far #1 hasn't wiped my teams. I've found that the real reckless danger to teams are Blasters who run ahead of the team, open with Fireball, and run back screaming in terror only to die behind the team and bring their new friends to us. Scrappers, at least the ones who aren't horrible, aren't putting the team at risk.
But, then again, your pugging mileage will vary.
When I play on normal teams I judge my craziness by the situation. Playing melee and scrappers for a long time, I know what I can handle and what my pace is.
Put buffs on me like SB, Fulcrum, or anything else that turns me into a god and I go into god of destruction mode and don't slow down for ANY reason. In this state I only have two gears. balls to the wall, and dead.
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Well Solo means just that...you dont have people around to tick off so you can play at your own pace...a team is just that, a TEAM. Just like when I was in the Army, they pretty much beat it into our heads (and our muscles) that there is no "I" in team. you stick with the team, you follow the leader and you do what your told.
I too would kick someone from a team if they pulled solo crap on me, and I would urge the leader to do the same if I wasnt the team leader.
Yes, this IS a game, and games are meant to have fun in, but reclessly endangering your "TEAM" makes the rest of the team usualy annoied. Which means that they arent having fun.
Sure, some of you can solo ITF, if thats your bag of tea, then you have no need for a team. Go get a bunch of fillers for your ITF or what ever and boot them when yoru ready, dont endanger everyone else and make it UNFUN for the rest of the people.
Thats my 2inf
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Yes, because every organized unit operates by walking in huddles groups within arms reach of one another. Last I checked, team work did not require holding hands. I fail to see why people insist the only viable teaming option is for 8 people to aim at the same target. In a game where so called support characters can clear 8-man spawned missions single handedly; folks still insist running missions like a mobile campfire. This isn't Voltron or Captain Planet. You're not going to turn into some giant super powered robot by holding each other's tails and ears.
Declaring you take the spawn on the right while I take the 3 on the left is still teamwork.
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See, he said Army...
We Marines are scrappers. I endorse the scrapper mindset. If you all can do it without dragging anyone down... go for it.
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I endorse the scrapper mindset. I'm in the Army though. Of course, I was told to be all that I could be, even if others stay packed tight in a group, I am an army of one. Hell, I'm Army strong.
(I hate the new slogans)
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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And this is part of why I mostly solo. Lots of people have VERY specific ideas about what a team should do and what powers team members should have, and often, these ideas are VERY different from person to person. You can get kicked from a team for doing what the last team insisted you do.
Screw it. I can kill almost everything in this game solo. So that's what I do. Or play with people I know that have complementary teaming styles. The small teams I'm more routinely on don't talk (at least about what we're doing) and don't slow down. We know how each other play. We know exactly what to expect. We don't rush into battle because we're impulsive. We rush into battle because we're experienced.
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Interestingly Werner, you very succinctly expressed my approach to the game, teaming, and in your prior post, the view on LJing. 
I primarily solo or duo with my wife, and when I team it's with a few friends I actually know irl and we rarely speak about combat situations because we simply don't need to.
I admit I end up dragging the team forward faster than they can recover much of the time, but only because I don't need to rest and I figure if I'm not going to die or cause anyone else to do so, then why shouldn't I help everyone gain xp/inf more quickly by killing everything faster?
Scrapper mentality is Chaotic Good at it's best, and Chaotic Neutral at it's most fun. 
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Well Solo means just that...you dont have people around to tick off so you can play at your own pace...a team is just that, a TEAM. Just like when I was in the Army, they pretty much beat it into our heads (and our muscles) that there is no "I" in team. you stick with the team, you follow the leader and you do what your told.
I too would kick someone from a team if they pulled solo crap on me, and I would urge the leader to do the same if I wasnt the team leader.
Yes, this IS a game, and games are meant to have fun in, but reclessly endangering your "TEAM" makes the rest of the team usualy annoied. Which means that they arent having fun.
Sure, some of you can solo ITF, if thats your bag of tea, then you have no need for a team. Go get a bunch of fillers for your ITF or what ever and boot them when yoru ready, dont endanger everyone else and make it UNFUN for the rest of the people.
Thats my 2inf
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Lol, comparing a MMO to the Army. Internet is srs business.
It is the recruting tool of choice.
Back to subject... Alot of players do no know how to set a pace. Toss in a few control freaks mixed with a few defenders that think they are the primary source of damage and often you find a slow team.
I have seen some fast paced tankers, but I do agree they more often then not are slower than most scrappers unless they have played a scrapper for at least 40 levels.
When on a melee I am the one setting the pace 9 times out of 10. I have had at least 4 tankers quit ITFs becuase they felt redundant instead of getting merits and exp.
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We don't rush into battle because we're impulsive. We rush into battle because we're experienced.
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That's a very important distinction, and one that isn't made nearly often enough.
Why can't it be both? 
Couple question for all you Leroys out there:
Have any of you successfully completed a Master of Statesman's Task Force?
If you have, did you have to adjust your playstyle to get it? (let the tank go in first on Recluse and Aeon, wait for buffers to finish buffing and such)
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Couple question for all you Leroys out there:
Have any of you successfully completed a Master of Statesman's Task Force?
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Yes, on multiple scrappers.
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If you have, did you have to adjust your playstyle to get it? (let the tank go in first on Recluse and Aeon, wait for buffers to finish buffing and such)
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The final mission of STF is the only scenario where I personally feel I want a tanker on the team. It is also the only mission where I wait for the tanker before running in. Granted, the folks I run with herd up GW, Mako, Scorpio, and Scirocco to take down all 4 at once. We then wait for the tanker occupy Reclue's attention before taking down the towers.
Who attacks Doctor Aeon is more about who took the debuff power from the CoT mission, running in before it's applied is pointless.
My group tends to run these in under an hour. On the Dr. Aeon mission they're expecting the scrappers to run ahead "Security Chief?" hopping for the sake of speed. We call it teamwork
MSTFs are a poor example to bring into this discussion. It's not exactly an example of what players typically encounter in game.
SI Radio has many DJs and listeners whom hold City of Heroes close to their hearts. We will be supporting many efforts to keep CoH ALIVE!!
I like where my little thread went. 
Briar: No, never done a normal STF either. *gasp* I do hold back when it's appropriate, of course, but there's not too much my scrapper can't handle when he isn't exemped down.
Also:
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We don't rush into battle because we're impulsive. We rush into battle because we're experienced.
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That's a very important distinction, and one that isn't made nearly often enough.
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I wore the Poor Impulse Control badge title as soon as I got it. Up until a level 40 tanker kicked me out of a Freak LT fa-slaughter mission because myself and the 2 other scrappers kept going in before he did. He kicked the other two scrappers first actually. This caused our team to not have enough damage (me, a defender, and 3 tanks), and somehow the tanks let the defender die, then the 40 tank and the granite tank died (lol) while myself and the invuln tank kept fighting.
He kicked me after I kept making fun of him for kicking the scrappers for not following his lead.
After that little episode, I started wearing the "Tank" badge title. Now when people say "Tank goes in first", they're talking about me!
I play all my Scrappers and Tanks just like I play all my Brutes. I set a very fast pace and a lot of teams have a hard time keeping up. It is one of the reasons I play red side most of the time. Heroes just tend to sit around too much.
At least I have my chicken. *munch munch*
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Right.
Well put me in 3 warnings and then /kick group. The reason this playstyle drives me crazy is that it wastes MY time as a support team member trying to figure out who just attacked what and whether its safe to assist them yet. While you might have defenses good enough to survive multiple things shooting at you, I and the rest of the squishies generally don't, and a Scrapper's ability to protect me if I miscalculate aggro is about zero.
And if you are wondering why the tank is standing around while you are running in, its often because s/he is trying to make sure not run toward the group she was *originally* planning to attack before you went charging in. There's a reason most teams designate a single person to lead the charge. It's to make sure everyone is shooting at the same group so the Blaster doesn't end up peeling aggro off the Scrapper in a mob she expected to be Taunted and fully controlled, while the Controllers blow their AoEs on the group next door. When someone runs in unexpectedly it's jarring and forces all other team members to recalculate their next move. How would you like it if the Storm Defender decided it would be more fun if they dropped a Tornado on the next mob because they felt like, it's fun for them, and it works when solo?
Further, I can't tell you how many times I've been playing an Ice or Earth Controller with a maximum damage output of around 20 when the team ran off and left me face to face with a pair of bosses who con pink to me. Extra credit goes to the Scrappers who do this while never actually turning off Super Speed as they run and aggro each new mob.
All of this said, it's not that I don't think a Scrapper can handle the alpha. It's more about communicating with the team and making sure we understand what you're doing. If the Tanker is designated as the, err, tank, that's who the group is expecting to follow. When you tear off on your own you at best waste our time while we rethink the situation and at worst get us all killed because we make the wrong decision.
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Right.
Well put me in 3 warnings and then /kick group. The reason this playstyle drives me crazy is that it wastes MY time as a support team member trying to figure out who just attacked what and whether its safe to assist them yet. While you might have defenses good enough to survive multiple things shooting at you, I and the rest of the squishies generally don't, and a Scrapper's ability to protect me if I miscalculate aggro is about zero.
And if you are wondering why the tank is standing around while you are running in, its often because s/he is trying to make sure not run toward the group she was *originally* planning to attack before you went charging in. There's a reason most teams designate a single person to lead the charge. It's to make sure everyone is shooting at the same group so the Blaster doesn't end up peeling aggro off the Scrapper in a mob she expected to be Taunted and fully controlled, while the Controllers blow their AoEs on the group next door. When someone runs in unexpectedly it's jarring and forces all other team members to recalculate their next move. How would you like it if the Storm Defender decided it would be more fun if they dropped a Tornado on the next mob because they felt like, it's fun for them, and it works when solo?
Further, I can't tell you how many times I've been playing an Ice or Earth Controller with a maximum damage output of around 20 when the team ran off and left me face to face with a pair of bosses who con pink to me. Extra credit goes to the Scrappers who do this while never actually turning off Super Speed as they run and aggro each new mob.
All of this said, it's not that I don't think a Scrapper can handle the alpha. It's more about communicating with the team and making sure we understand what you're doing. If the Tanker is designated as the, err, tank, that's who the group is expecting to follow. When you tear off on your own you at best waste our time while we rethink the situation and at worst get us all killed because we make the wrong decision.
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I see more time wasted by 8 people attacking the last mob in a group and the tanker not going to the next group to prep the next group for the aoe goodness that no doubt the team has.
I also see more wasted time by the lack of thought some have when they are "left" fighting a single or two mobs to die. If you know your hero or villain lacks the ability to finish the job, is it really so hard a concept to move forward with the 7 other people on you team thus bringing the one or two mobs along be taken care of?
Also, if the scrapper aggros and there is a tanker on the team, doesn't the tanker grab aggro? And in those scenarios where the scrapper has run off and aggroed a second group, why aren't you following the designated "tanker" and let the scrapper die? (trick question cause you know the scrapper will live!)
My last comment in this game so few people understand aggro managment that their own individual actions are the things that get them killed.
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There is a very big difference between teams on red side and blue side. Heroes tend to take things a lot slower then Villains do when running through missions. Rarely do you see villain groups pausing between mobs since most are being driven by the Brutes fury bar. I have spent 90% of my time running red side Brutes, so that is how I play. I find the sitting around most blue side teams do to be very frustrating. I know the AT's are very different, but in most cases blue side just takes way too long on most teams when steamrolling the mobs is just as safe and in the long run much faster.
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I see more time wasted by 8 people attacking the last mob in a group and the tanker not going to the next group to prep the next group for the aoe goodness that no doubt the team has.
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I agree. But this is not what I was talking about.
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I also see more wasted time by the lack of thought some have when they are "left" fighting a single or two mobs to die. If you know your hero or villain lacks the ability to finish the job, is it really so hard a concept to move forward with the 7 other people on you team thus bringing the one or two mobs along be taken care of?
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Consider this combination of facts:
- A Controller's powers hold things in place
- A Controller without support might be lucky to survive 5 attacks from a boss, and sometimes as few as 2
Once the mob is mezzed, its not going anywhere, but it sure does remember the last person who attacked it. So there is no way I'm going to chance running off to the next group so the boss, who was previously frozen, can come charging down the hallway and shoot me at range before I stack control on it again. What I'd really be hoping for is someone who specializes in single-target damage (like, say, a Scrapper) to take the boss out so I don't have to play hide-and-go-seek with it while trying to deal with the next group.
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Also, if the scrapper aggros and there is a tanker on the team, doesn't the tanker grab aggro? And in those scenarios where the scrapper has run off and aggroed a second group, why aren't you following the designated "tanker" and let the scrapper die? (trick question cause you know the scrapper will live!)
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Maybe, if the Tanker guesses correctly and picks the same group to attack, and everyone else in the group realizes it was just the impatient Scrapper who jumped in the fight and holds their shots until after the Tanker makes it in.
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The reason this playstyle drives me crazy is that it wastes MY time as a support team member trying to figure out who just attacked what and whether its safe to assist them yet. While you might have defenses good enough to survive multiple things shooting at you, I and the rest of the squishies generally don't, and a Scrapper's ability to protect me if I miscalculate aggro is about zero.
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Why are you attacking the same targets as a Scrapper? It's simply not going to be alive long enough for you powers to be anything but wasted, and regardless, it's focusing on the scrapper, not the rest of the group. That mob is effectively out of the fight. As a support character, your powers would be more effectively used against lower-priority, status-effecting mobs, no? Ignore the Sappers and target the Gunslinger, as it were.
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And if you are wondering why the tank is standing around while you are running in, its often because s/he is trying to make sure not run toward the group she was *originally* planning to attack before you went charging in. There's a reason most teams designate a single person to lead the charge. It's to make sure everyone is shooting at the same group so the Blaster doesn't end up peeling aggro off the Scrapper in a mob she expected to be Taunted and fully controlled, while the Controllers blow their AoEs on the group next door. When someone runs in unexpectedly it's jarring and forces all other team members to recalculate their next move. How would you like it if the Storm Defender decided it would be more fun if they dropped a Tornado on the next mob because they felt like, it's fun for them, and it works when solo?
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This is an experience claim, not a mindset. A decent scrapper should be able to tell where a group is going, and decide how best to deal with the next mob. Pick a few choice targets and drop them quickly.
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Further, I can't tell you how many times I've been playing an Ice or Earth Controller with a maximum damage output of around 20 when the team ran off and left me face to face with a pair of bosses who con pink to me. Extra credit goes to the Scrappers who do this while never actually turning off Super Speed as they run and aggro each new mob.
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Again, this seems to be a problem with the team, not the particular players. My sympathies for your situation, though.
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All of this said, it's not that I don't think a Scrapper can handle the alpha. It's more about communicating with the team and making sure we understand what you're doing. If the Tanker is designated as the, err, tank, that's who the group is expecting to follow. When you tear off on your own you at best waste our time while we rethink the situation and at worst get us all killed because we make the wrong decision.
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There's this little thing called trust. I trust, when I begin attacking a group, that the other people on my team will act in a manner that helps us, as a whole. If you spend all your time worrying about what everyone else is doing, you're spending no time worrying about what you should be doing. Which only hurts the team more.
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While you might have defenses good enough to survive multiple things shooting at you, I and the rest of the squishies generally don't, and a Scrapper's ability to protect me if I miscalculate aggro is about zero.
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That depends very much on the scrapper, how good his taunt aura is, and how much threat he can generate with his first couple of attacks.
My BS/SD has tanked entire TFs. No tank, just me, and no deaths. You see, with AAO on, once I hit a pack of enemies with Shield Charge, nothing short of Taunt is going to peel them off me (nothing they can survive, anyway).
As a scrapper, I stay on task. And I go where that task takes me at whatever speed it takes me there. If a tank stays ahead of me, fine; but if not, that's fine, too.
I'm no Leeroy, as I actually succeed in my objectives and don't get my teammates killed; but I do pretty much go where I please and kill whatever is there, at the time of my choosing; unless the particulars of an unusual mission dictate otherwise, I don't wait for the tank.
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Consider this combination of facts:
- A Controller's powers hold things in place
- A Controller without support might be lucky to survive 5 attacks from a boss, and sometimes as few as 2
Once the mob is mezzed, its not going anywhere, but it sure does remember the last person who attacked it. So there is no way I'm going to chance running off to the next group so the boss, who was previously frozen, can come charging down the hallway and shoot me at range before I stack control on it again. What I'd really be hoping for is someone who specializes in single-target damage (like, say, a Scrapper) to take the boss out so I don't have to play hide-and-go-seek with it while trying to deal with the next group.
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But isn't it you out of sync with your team if you are the last remaining person playing around with the last mob. I have several controllers and you over exaggerate the issue given spawn distances, line of sight, etc.
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Maybe, if the Tanker guesses correctly and picks the same group to attack, and everyone else in the group realizes it was just the impatient Scrapper who jumped in the fight and holds their shots until after the Tanker makes it in.
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But even if the tanker did not guess correctly, you will not aggro the second group just because the scrapper did, he will aggro and unless he is past the aggro cap for that group (a rare occasion in spawn mechanics) you suffer nothing by targeting what the tank attacks.
Well Solo means just that...you dont have people around to tick off so you can play at your own pace...a team is just that, a TEAM. Just like when I was in the Army, they pretty much beat it into our heads (and our muscles) that there is no "I" in team. you stick with the team, you follow the leader and you do what your told.
I too would kick someone from a team if they pulled solo crap on me, and I would urge the leader to do the same if I wasnt the team leader.
Yes, this IS a game, and games are meant to have fun in, but reclessly endangering your "TEAM" makes the rest of the team usualy annoied. Which means that they arent having fun.
Sure, some of you can solo ITF, if thats your bag of tea, then you have no need for a team. Go get a bunch of fillers for your ITF or what ever and boot them when yoru ready, dont endanger everyone else and make it UNFUN for the rest of the people.
Thats my 2inf
I hate all this terrorist business. I used to love the days when you could look at an unattended bag on a train or bus and think to yourself.... I'm going to take that.