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I do agree with you that there are bad players that bite off more than they can chew and dump their mess on the team.
I do agree that these players should avoided if they are beyond redemption.
However, there are a couple points in which I disagree.
You make a presumption that I equate fun with achieving some maximum overall kill rate. While getting through a mission at a good pace is a factor in my having fun, going through a task at maximum speed often sacrifices another thing I consider fun--interaction/communication between team members. Even taking twice as long as the average team can be fun if there is good interaction in team chat or on vent.
You also seem to think that I mandate running through missions in a "hero huddle". I don't know how you derived that from my series of posts. let me assure you that my playstyle is much more flexible than that.
People that set the pace are important. But on a team of friends who all play the game at various skill levels, sometimes it's best to set a pace in the middle to ensure that your friends are having fun too.
I believe my original points still hold merit. Though by the reactions I'e received on this thread I think they fall on deaf ears.
1) Everyone has their own definition of fun.
2) My version of fun deviates from that of some of the popular old time scrappers.
3) Sometimes "sharing the fun" can allow good relationships to grow or even a better understanding of the game.
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The thing is there can be some form of middle ground. Why does it bother you if a Scrapper runs ahead of the team and solos a certain spawn? If the Scrapper is handling it pretty well on his own I don't really see the issue. I know that you like to communicate with your team/have discussions with friends but there can be two different play styles on one team. You and the rest of the group continue at the rate that you're comfortable with and just let the scrapper do his own thing. You can communicate with the team and if it doesn't slow down the scrapper/if he isn't being social you can pretend he's not there which makes everybody happy.
The mission may end a bit faster but if you don't conform to the scrapper's speed then you can still be enjoying your play style while he's enjoying his. Why does he want to team if he's happy on his own? Some people enjoy the companionship of others even if they don't join in the social interaction. If the Scrapper's play style endangers your team then feel free to kick him out but I don't see why it's so wrong if everyone wants to do their own thing.
Truth be told this is the main reason why I reject teams. Many people feel the need to dictate how we play the game and expect us to stick with the group when we know full well what we can handle and what we can't. This also creates further problems in the game with other people complaining that they can't find teams (of course if you really try you can always get them but there's tons of people who WOULD be willing but are now reluctant). You seem like an understanding person but there's those out there (I know they're not too prevalent) that will make personal attacks on the person in question for not conforming to their play style.
As a Scrapper I sometimes do run off to do my own thing but I never once expect people to speed up. I also only go as fast that is safe to me and if I was going to die I'd let the group know I got in over my head and take the mobs elsewhere before I perish. I make sure that my "solo" antics don't get anyone killed.
*looks at thread, mouth agape*
*sighs*
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I'm one of those who feel there's not such a thing as I in TEAM.
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Just so everyone knows, this is a valuable lesson I learned in High School. There is an I in team
Equipo
un equipo de rugby -> a rugby team
And as one of those that is in the military, yes, I do things on my own. I am a medic assigned to a platoon. The only medic. I have to think for myself, weigh the values of my actions, the consequences of said actions against what will happen to my platoon. I'm glad I never listened to my platoon sergeant when I was in Iraq this last time. He didnt know me, and didn't know what I was capable of. When the mortar fire started, and everyone was told to run one way, I ran the other (kinda like how I do on my scrappers and brutes) and was able to save someones life.
This isn't to say I'm a hero, hell, I tried to turn down the award they gave me. This is to say that just because someone is in a leadership position, doesn't necessarily mean they know what is best for the group. In this game, just means they are the ones who started the recruiting drive. And we all know how smart recruiters are.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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I just what to know when did Scrapper=Bad player, Bad Teammate.
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There's a difference between bad players and bad teammates. Bad players are the people who don't know how to play their characters, forgetting to use important powers and similar. This thread isn't about bad players, as they play, they gradually become better players. That's something learned through experience. Bad teammates on the other hand, are those who in a team has difficulties working with the rest of the team. Bad players and bad teammates exist of all archetypes.
The reason Scrapper is overall seen as the Bad Teammate is because it is the Best Soloist. It deals a lot of damage, it is very durable. So a lot of the people who doesn't work well with a team are naturally drawn to it, due to the ease it provides to those who like solo, thereby leading to the inherent belief that the Scrapper is the Bad Teammate. I have worked with many scrappers who work well together with teams. I have worked with many who doesn't understand what teamwork is. I have also played with defenders, blasters, controllers and tankers who didn't understand what a team is. But still it is the scrappers I usually see run off in different directions, on their quest to get more frags than anyone else.
The one reason I encourage a team to stay together and the argument I usually make to get the soloists to stay with the rest of the team, is that a team together is more efficient than each of the parts. The scrapper on its own is very efficient and is a fast killer. The tanker on its own is very durable and is not as fast at killing. The blaster is the fastest killer, but also very squishy. Defenders/Controllers depend a lot of their power sets, but are generally quite squishy and their damage is rather low. When you take all of them together though, there's a strong synergy. Defenders/controllers that do -resist or -defense are a good reasoning for scrappers to stay near the team. There will be more orange numbers or the numbers will be higher. Buffs will do the same.
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Well Solo means just that...you dont have people around to tick off so you can play at your own pace...a team is just that, a TEAM. Just like when I was in the Army, they pretty much beat it into our heads (and our muscles) that there is no "I" in team. you stick with the team, you follow the leader and you do what your told.
I too would kick someone from a team if they pulled solo crap on me, and I would urge the leader to do the same if I wasnt the team leader.
Yes, this IS a game, and games are meant to have fun in, but reclessly endangering your "TEAM" makes the rest of the team usualy annoied. Which means that they arent having fun.
Sure, some of you can solo ITF, if thats your bag of tea, then you have no need for a team. Go get a bunch of fillers for your ITF or what ever and boot them when yoru ready, dont endanger everyone else and make it UNFUN for the rest of the people.
Thats my 2inf
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Yes, because every organized unit operates by walking in huddles groups within arms reach of one another. Last I checked, team work did not require holding hands. I fail to see why people insist the only viable teaming option is for 8 people to aim at the same target. In a game where so called support characters can clear 8-man spawned missions single handedly; folks still insist running missions like a mobile campfire. This isn't Voltron or Captain Planet. You're not going to turn into some giant super powered robot by holding each other's tails and ears.
Declaring you take the spawn on the right while I take the 3 on the left is still teamwork.
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Exactly. I don't need to team on my DM/Invuln brute, or my Claws/Willpower scrapper, or even my Thugs/Traps mastermind. I don't like it when people get on my case just because I'm steamrolling 8-man mobs by myself. Desmodos is right as well this is a really easy game. There is almost no death penalty. I appreciate teammates much more when they don't take the game so seriously. The other night on my Thugs/Traps mm I was on an AE..erm..'quick xp' map. I aggroed three mobs of purple bosses and killed about one and a half myself before the team got wiped. Everyone just loled, hit the hospital, and went back in...not a big deal. That's the kind of team I like to scrap with....the one that enjoys carnage and risk and doesn't throw a hissy fit about dying once.
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That's the kind of team I like to scrap with....the one that enjoys carnage and risk and doesn't throw a hissy fit about dying once.
[/ QUOTE ] Agreed. If you ain't dyin, you ain't tryin
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*looks at thread, mouth agape*
*sighs*
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love it,
Oh, and there may be no "I" in "Team" but there is a "Me", it's just mispelt, but then I'm a scrapper, and I've got no time for correct spelling, now kill faster damn you 
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If I was team leader and you were running unnecessarily quickly into battle and putting the rest of the team to any kind of risk, I would give you three warnings before kicking you from the team.
I can almost guarantee that one or more other members of the party would then congratulation me on my patience in allowing you the opportunity to curb your impulsive behavior.
I know, because I have had to do this on more than one occasion.
If I wasn't leader, and I saw you repeatedly putting the team at risk. I would say something. If there wasn't a change, then I would simply quit the team and find/start another one.
Once you are on a team, it isn't just about you. You aren't solo. You are part of a team. Act like it.
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Hehe I would quit the team on the 2nd warning and finish yoru mish for you.
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Away from that, taking enjoyment from an archetype being buffed does not equate to harboring hatred toward a playstyle.
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Does harboring a hatred toward a playstyle equate to hating an archetype?
No?
Hypocrisy++
**
Nevermind that no such equation was made on my part. I was speaking strictly to the quotation I copied in my original post, not any ongoing argument you may or may not be having in this thread.
[/ QUOTE ]So, everyone that despised having to play "Assassinate and run" with pre-buff stalkers hated the AT when they were clamoring for changes to make them more team friendly?
It's the same situation as Dominators are in. Their playstyle really is less than attractive, the "Jekyll & Hyde" feel for an entire AT is a major turn-off, especially when there's soloability issues outside of Domination. Not all of us can afford a Perma-dom build easily, nor do we all want to need one to be effective at high levels of play. I would like to point out that the current Dominator damage scalars are around where Kheldian scalars used to be, which were determined to be "just too damn low" and buffed for that reason.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Sounds like it'd be fun to team with some of the Scrappers in this topic. Just walk into the mission map, say "Go!", and watch as the Scrappers run off in their own directions and clear out the map in five minutes, including the AV.
But, if you're having issues with bad Scrappers running off and getting killed, just roll a Rad/ Defender with Recall Friend, Vengeance, and Fallout. I mean, who said reckless players aren't useful?
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Sounds like it'd be fun to team with some of the Scrappers in this topic. Just walk into the mission map, say "Go!", and watch as the Scrappers run off in their own directions and clear out the map in five minutes, including the AV.
But, if you're having issues with bad Scrappers running off and getting killed, just roll a Rad/ Defender with Recall Friend, Vengeance, and Fallout. I mean, who said reckless players aren't useful?
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Gotta take Mutation too...
How else will you get to fire Fallout again when it's recharged? 
I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Seriously, this "teaming" thing is sounding less and less pleasant the farther we go in this thread.
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CoX has always been a solo-game with optional teaming, hasn't it? Maybe I misread the manual...
OK, so Werner, BillZ, and BrokenPrey when can we all get together to form an anti-teaming team? Seriously, this would be a hell of a fun group methinks.
That's what the all scrapper ITF I recently did felt like. It was awesome.
All scrapper teams are pure bliss. There may be faceplants a plenty, but no one cares a bit.
Be well, people of CoH.
That's how we were. Although it did bug me that I face planted twice in the second mission.
I've been meaning to get an all scrapper ITF together for a while.
(The few times I have organised them, they've been pure chaos anyway, with us only coming together for the final mish, but meh, that's what happens when a Scrapper gets the star right?)
2am, doesn't sound to good though, I'm thinking about 6pm tonight on Justice,
Who's with me?
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Seriously, this "teaming" thing is sounding less and less pleasant the farther we go in this thread.
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CoX has always been a solo-game with optional teaming, hasn't it? Maybe I misread the manual...
OK, so Werner, BillZ, and BrokenPrey when can we all get together to form an anti-teaming team? Seriously, this would be a hell of a fun group methinks.
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I'm trying to organize a people who hate people club. I can't seem to get anyone to show up to meetings, though, and the members keep leaving nasty messages on my answering machine.
I actually do some anti-teaming teams already. Some of the small groups I've leveled up with have been very tightly coordinated, like a tank and two blasters. Some are pretty much everybody solo whatever portion of the map looks tasty to you, like when we all choose tanks and scrappers (or Brutes and Masterminds, or whatever). We seem to split up and fall together kind of automatically, without much communication, other than maybe boss for the end boss, and then we come running to try to get some of the fun if we can get there in time. Sometimes we arrive to a corpse. Or sometimes there's just the mission complete sound while we're doing something totally unrelated.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Christ almighty, if I waited for the team to be ready before jumping into things, my scrapper would die of old age. Tanks are especially bad; for such a heavily-defended AT they sure act like whiny babies when it comes to jumping in and busting heads. The thing I love about scrappers is that I don't care whether the rest of the team is ready. I appreciate buffs and fire support but they are optional in the extreme. If I die while off soloing the next spawn while the tank is typing out "herding to here" with his big old tank fingers, then so be it, that don't confront me none.
Worst thing in the world is a team who doesn't understand that the purpose of a scrapper is to kill things early and often, not to twiddle thumbs and wait until everyone has a fat and happy blue bar or whatever. I don't expect backup, I don't expect the tank to come in and taunt mobs off me. If I start a fight I did it with the intention of finishing it. Help is appreciated but not expected. I think this is what [censored] tankers off so badly; they don't like the fact that scrappers don't place them on a pedestal as being the most important member of the team, the one that decides what happens when.
Of course all this goes out the window when it actually matters. If me scrambling off and picking a fight with a certain minotaur is gonna cause a teamwipe, that minotaur is safe from me. I might put my own neck on the block but I won't stretch anyone else's out there.
edit: Tomorrow I am gonna make an all-scrapper ITF, me and my wife will start it. This is gonna be awesome.
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I might put my own neck on the block but I won't stretch anyone else's out there.
[/ QUOTE ] Sometimes when a team I'm on is playing too timid(meaning the team is good enough to steam roll, but plays scared) I'll start pulling extra mobs to us just to show them what we are capable of doing. It works about 90% percent of the time. The other 10% I just blame the blaster.
edit: So have people done all Scrapper LGTF and STF? I would love to join one of those.
I'm suddenly reminded of an odd instance along the lines of the topic. I was on my Scrapper doing the Sister Psyche TF. The team wanted to get it done as fast as possible for the badge and merits. I'm first to arrive at a glowie hunt mission. So, what do I do? Step in, pop a purple to bring my defenses back to the softcap as they were 25 levels higher, and run through to the glowie and grab it, completing the mission. The leader immediately complained about the mission getting completed just as she was reaching the door. I was confused quite a bit by that. If you're aiming for all out speed to the point where the only thing that mattered was the end reward for the TF, why are you complaining that you got taken closer to it that much faster? I could understand if she wanted the mission completion bonus (which she wouldn't have gotten without us standing around for several minutes anyway), but sheesh, that makes no sense. Meanwhile, everyone else was happy to be moving on.
I guess some players can't stand Scrappers far outperforming their expectations.
Emberly,
You've nailed it.
They're my thoughts exactly.
On an amusing side note, my current project is DM/Inv, shes not yet 50, but has had a few set bonuses added, mainly from Kinetic Combats, and has already soloed Bobcat (though used a lot of Reds)
Anyway, there I am with her on an AE Freak map today. Theres a Tank on the team, but he dies on the first mob.
I "could" wait for him to hosp and come back, but wheres the fun in that?
So I leap into the mob in front of them, pull it back to what's left of the first, hit Soul Drain and go to work.
Oh it was beautiful, this is how we did the rest of the map.
Sure, it took a while for the rest of the team notice me leapfrogging ahead in this manner while the Tank struggled with one mob at a time, but when they did realise, oh man, it was a thing of beauty.
There is something about being surrounded by 30-40 +3 freaks and knowing they can't overcome your defenses, that is so AWESOME.
And then a blaster comes alongside and hits nova, which is like awesome covered with chocolate sauce!
Who needs a Granite Tank when I can do that?
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Sounds like it'd be fun to team with some of the Scrappers in this topic. Just walk into the mission map, say "Go!", and watch as the Scrappers run off in their own directions and clear out the map in five minutes, including the AV.
But, if you're having issues with bad Scrappers running off and getting killed, just roll a Rad/ Defender with Recall Friend, Vengeance, and Fallout. I mean, who said reckless players aren't useful?
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Gotta take Mutation too...
How else will you get to fire Fallout again when it's recharged?
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Recall Friend to port the body around.
My fire/rad has vengeance and fallout, but no mutation.
Insp combine makes wakies trivial.
[quick reply]
I've decided, in general response to this entire thread, that the "Six Second Rule" should be amended into the Scrapper Description on the AT Selection Screen.
Maybe then it would sink in for some folks that the way most (see: Experienced Scrappers) of us play Scrappers after a fashion is the way that the developers intended for us to play as. Solid Damage and enough survivability to stand long enough to make everything bleed to death before we could slap a band aid on and stick a knife in the next thing that looks at us sideways, funny from across the room and down the hall in the next room up the elevator.
Screw the other seven names on the team window, you're just padding since the mechanics state I can't target you and thus is the only reason you're still standing when I walk back through the rooms you're still catching up to. Not that I don't value everyone's rights to team as they see fit; but if you have a member on your team that is self sufficiently capable of taking care of themselves in a manner that warrants their ability to solo and 8-Man Team Generated Mob, then let them if their not in a capacity to buff/support the team otherwise. Generally this means: Let the Scrapper Go.
This has been my mentality in nearly every game I've ever played. Take advantage of the member on the team that is self reliant and use that to your advantage. Feels a bit redundant though to say it though since for those of us that it matters to, already know this, and those that refuse to listen will continue to face plant in the wake of Scrapperdom.
Hail the Era of the Scrapper with our Wernerscores and School of BillZ Memberships breaking Arcanatime with our DPS while we pad our missions with 8-Man Teams and wonder why the difficulty scale says invincible but feels like easy mode.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
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Hail the Era of the Scrapper with our Wernerscores and School of BillZ Memberships breaking Arcanatime with our DPS while we pad our missions with 8-Man Teams and wonder why the difficulty scale says invincible but feels like easy mode.
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Hmmm... 'twould appear we done broke the game.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I play to have fun this is a game.
[/ QUOTE ] This.
Like you, I usually only team when doing a task force.