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There is a solution though--compromise.
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Most scrappers already compromise. Rather than forcing the team to charge in at the exact same time as us to maximize the chaos, we compromise by letting them lag a few seconds behind before joining in the glorious carnage.
Meet us half way here, otherwise I'll just go back to demanding full team blitzes on every spawn when I run TFs. Those damn squishies need to grow a pair and join in the fun, they really kill my chaos/time ratio hanging back like that.
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Well said. It would be so nice if the scrapper haters would get the hell out of our forum.
Be well, people of CoH.
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It would be so nice if the scrapper haters would get the hell out of our forum.
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Sorry to be a buzz kill in our forum.
I don't hate scrappers by any means.
I think you and I actually have something in common! We both seem to dislike it when someone insists on doing certain things at the expense of what we consider fun.
To each their own!
Nope, we don't even have that in common. The scrapper running off and accomplishing nothing but speeding up the overall kill rate because he isn't slowing himself down by playing babysitter to a bunch of boring players is in no way detrimental to your fun.
Unless it's nothing but AT envy annoying you. And that's the envious players problem, not mine.
Yes, there are bad players out there that get in over there head and then run back to the team. They are bad players regardless of what AT they happen to be playing. Bad players should be avoided.
Therefore, any player that throws out the "stay with the team" crap when a scrapper or pair of scrappers go off to finish the mission more efficiently than staying with the team will bring about, that player is doing so ONLY at the detriment of the scrapper's fun.
If your fun is being lessened because the rest of the team is clearing baddies too slowly, then perhaps you chose your pace setter poorly. (Which is probably why the scrapper in question tore off from the group.)
Be well, people of CoH.
Personally, I dislike it when people tell me how to play my toon. They are not on my toon and don't know what works best. If I'm not doing something wrong, like herding a room up and bringing them over to the four Blasters using Rest, then I don't need to be told how to play my toon. Likewise, I do the same for others. When I lead a team, I don't order anyone about outside of critical situations where success demands it, aka 99% of the PvE content. I trust my teammates know what they're doing. And surprisingly, this tends to work really well. The only time I tell people "you're doing it wrong" is when they literally are doing it wrong, like doing nothing but using Healing Aura on auto. If you're not a detriment to the team, then you're fine with me.
Now, like any team player, I'll ask my teammate if they can do something, such as giving me this buff or taunting that mob, when I feel I or the team needs it. Naturally, this tends to work out and often is the only combat related chatter. And it can be surprising when everyone is suddenly listening to the psycho Scrapper who was rushing in ahead of everyone because the designated pace setter/leader/both is too busy bemoaning that we can't do it (and they're almost always wrong).
Regardless of what I'm playing, there's only two types of players who get on my nerves: bad players and players who can't adjust and adapt. If the squishy follows me in a bit too closely, they need to adapt and deal with their aggro. I play squishies who draw plenty of attention and sit in the middle of melee and do just fine without fancy IOs and what not, I'm sure that purpled Controller who complains the boss can two-shot him could too if he used his head.
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Nope, we don't even have that in common. The scrapper running off and accomplishing nothing but speeding up the overall kill rate because he isn't slowing himself down by playing babysitter to a bunch of boring players is in no way detrimental to your fun.
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I play all my squishies like fury-junkie brutes, dragging my teammates behind me. Some have even suggested that "Impatience" should be my middle name.
I don't even have a level 50 melee character and I have epic scrapperlock. Sounds like I should team with BillZBubba....
Hazel Black - Mind/Psi D
Stephanie Winters - Nightwidow
Jacqui Frost - Cold/Ice D
Jacqui Embers - Fire/Kin C
Simone Templar - Fire/MM B
Mallory Woods - Kin/Rad D
Sanguine Melody - Grav/Sonic C
Fumina Hara - Plant/Storm C
Nutmeg - Warshade
Lauren Wu - SS/WP B
I do agree with you that there are bad players that bite off more than they can chew and dump their mess on the team.
I do agree that these players should avoided if they are beyond redemption.
However, there are a couple points in which I disagree.
You make a presumption that I equate fun with achieving some maximum overall kill rate. While getting through a mission at a good pace is a factor in my having fun, going through a task at maximum speed often sacrifices another thing I consider fun--interaction/communication between team members. Even taking twice as long as the average team can be fun if there is good interaction in team chat or on vent.
You also seem to think that I mandate running through missions in a "hero huddle". I don't know how you derived that from my series of posts. let me assure you that my playstyle is much more flexible than that.
People that set the pace are important. But on a team of friends who all play the game at various skill levels, sometimes it's best to set a pace in the middle to ensure that your friends are having fun too.
I believe my original points still hold merit. Though by the reactions I'e received on this thread I think they fall on deaf ears.
1) Everyone has their own definition of fun.
2) My version of fun deviates from that of some of the popular old time scrappers.
3) Sometimes "sharing the fun" can allow good relationships to grow or even a better understanding of the game.
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1) Everyone has their own definition of fun.
2) My version of fun deviates from that of some of the popular old time scrappers.
3) Sometimes "sharing the fun" can allow good relationships to grow or even a better understanding of the game.
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None of that falls on deaf ears. I actually agree with all of it.
It's when the "tell the scrapper to stay with the team or kick him" mindset occurs that the above philosophy falls into failure.
Be well, people of CoH.
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It's when the "tell the scrapper to stay with the team or kick him" mindset occurs that the above philosophy falls into failure.
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I can respect your position that. I am not inclined to demand others play a certain way. I would be inclined to disuade someone from conducting themselves in a way that the team (not just me mind you) feels is detracting from their experience.
After wading through several posts in which people made comments about treating their team as a filler or bunch of buff bots; hopefully tongue in cheek, though I have my doubts; I thought I'd express those 3 points.
Anyhow, thanks for having a rational discussion. I'm happy to hear that one of the forum heavies sees the value in "sharing the fun".
I'm not that fat.
Sharing brings people together.
And allows pandemics to wipe out our species.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Well said. It would be so nice if the scrapper haters would get the hell out of our forum.
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Well said. It would be so nice if the dominator haters would get the hell out of *that* forum.
Billz luvs dominators!
Bloody hypocrite.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
Looks to me like he was speaking in favor of the buffs.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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Well said. It would be so nice if the scrapper haters would get the hell out of our forum.
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Well said. It would be so nice if the dominator haters would get the hell out of *that* forum.
Billz luvs dominators!
Bloody hypocrite.
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I see agreement that doms need changing and joy that they're getting buffed.
Nice try, little boy, but a failed attempt.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Well said. It would be so nice if the scrapper haters would get the hell out of our forum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said. It would be so nice if the dominator haters would get the hell out of *that* forum.
Billz luvs dominators!
Bloody hypocrite.
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I see agreement that doms need changing and joy that they're getting buffed.
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Thus indicating an _utmost_ of respect for the archetype, right?
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Nice try, little boy, but a failed attempt.
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Sorry, ma'am. I'll try better next time.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
Some of them are bleeding from the defender forum. I take the blame for that one if blame needs to be placed. I regularly go over their and defend the one set they love to bash.
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And allows pandemics to wipe out our species.
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(thread tangent) ... WHO (World Health Organization) to Media: "I'm not sure pandemic means what you think it means." /Princess Bride-ism. But yeah, that really happened.
The term itself does not connote deadly disease. The common cold is pandemic. Pandemic simply means widespread. Sorry to go off on a rant over word usage, but the empty sensationalism in our media these days drives me to drink repeatedly. "OH GOD! OH GOD! We're ALL GUNNA DIE! It's a PANDEMIC! Doesn't that word SCARE you?!! WATCH OUR NEWS!"
Remember SARS? oh god oh god SARS? Yeah.
http://respirators.4ursafety.com/sar....html#outbreak
8K people caught it. 10% died. 774 people (worldwide).
Guess how many people die A DAY from drunk driving in the USA? ~750. Heart attacks? ~270.
EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!
/end sidetrack
Back to scrapping / leadership discussion - really, I think the people here who advocate the scrapper going off on their own are experienced players - the kind that I want on my teams. If they run off and do their own thing on a team I'm leading, usually I adapt to the situation. If I'm doing my own thing on a team and the leader gets all pissy about it without good reason beyond "you're not waiting for us", I'm probably better off on another team. And much of the team is probably better off going with me. /shrug
You might also try taking an English course.
Away from that, taking enjoyment from an archetype being buffed does not equate to harboring hatred toward a playstyle.
While I see that you aren't capable of understanding the difference, the difference is there.
Be well, people of CoH.
After having died more than once as a support member in an attempt to save the reckless scrapper who believes himself capable of taking on a group of mobs that he cannot, I've gotten to the point where I follow the designated point. Let the idiot burn for all I care. It becomes an even greater issue when the group is fighting one mob, the scrapper(s) have taken on others and when the scrappers go down, the two other mobs insta-aggro on the group and suddenly life becomes much much harder.
I'm one of those who feel there's not such a thing as I in TEAM. If the designated leader gives an order, you obey it. The people mentioning the marines, navy, army or whatever previously must know that if you do not follow orders, you'll get punished for insubordination. In CoH the closest to dishonourable discharge is /kick, so that's what I'm always supporting after the scrapper has been given a few warnings.
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Well Solo means just that...you dont have people around to tick off so you can play at your own pace...a team is just that, a TEAM. Just like when I was in the Army, they pretty much beat it into our heads (and our muscles) that there is no "I" in team. you stick with the team, you follow the leader and you do what your told.
I too would kick someone from a team if they pulled solo crap on me, and I would urge the leader to do the same if I wasnt the team leader.
Yes, this IS a game, and games are meant to have fun in, but reclessly endangering your "TEAM" makes the rest of the team usualy annoied. Which means that they arent having fun.
Sure, some of you can solo ITF, if thats your bag of tea, then you have no need for a team. Go get a bunch of fillers for your ITF or what ever and boot them when yoru ready, dont endanger everyone else and make it UNFUN for the rest of the people.
Thats my 2inf
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Yes, because every organized unit operates by walking in huddles groups within arms reach of one another. Last I checked, team work did not require holding hands. I fail to see why people insist the only viable teaming option is for 8 people to aim at the same target. In a game where so called support characters can clear 8-man spawned missions single handedly; folks still insist running missions like a mobile campfire. This isn't Voltron or Captain Planet. You're not going to turn into some giant super powered robot by holding each other's tails and ears.
Declaring you take the spawn on the right while I take the 3 on the left is still teamwork.
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Lol Voltron FORM! good post there.
I play the same with my scrappers and never get complaints.
�The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
@Mr. Magnifico
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You might also try taking an English course.
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But... the British Isles are so far away...
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Away from that, taking enjoyment from an archetype being buffed does not equate to harboring hatred toward a playstyle.
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Does harboring a hatred toward a playstyle equate to hating an archetype?
No?
Hypocrisy++
**
Nevermind that no such equation was made on my part. I was speaking strictly to the quotation I copied in my original post, not any ongoing argument you may or may not be having in this thread.
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While I see that you aren't capable of understanding the difference, the difference is there.
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Motes, eyes, and all that...
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
I was also in the army. 11C. I learned a very valuable life lesson while I was in:
Far too often, individuals are promoted past their level of competence.
In other words, more often than not, you'll be following someone that is poorly suited for the position they hold.
I've found that truth to be even more prevalent outside of the military.
So... no. I'm not going to take "orders" from another gamer unless it suits my purposes to do so. If they kick me for it, so be it. It won't phase me and I'll take it as nothing more than a sign that I was about to have a very dull and/or annoying teaming experience.
I recently stayed on an ITF only because the person that invited me had shown me a kindness the day before. The "leader" on that team was apparently a yes man for another teammate that took offense to my playstyle. Had the person that I felt a debt to not been on the team, I would have replied with a hearty "fark you" and quit the team at the first sign of silliness.
Be well, people of CoH.
And you still failed to prove me a hypocrite. Come back when you manage it. Otherwise, go back to your bridge.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I was also in the army. 11C. I learned a very valuable life lesson while I was in:
Far too often, individuals are promoted past their level of competence.
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A sad fact that is most definitely not limited to the army.
There's authority you're given, and there's authority you earn.
Ed: Word swap for clarity.
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I'm one of those who feel there's not such a thing as I in TEAM. If the designated leader gives an order, you obey it. The people mentioning the marines, navy, army or whatever previously must know that if you do not follow orders, you'll get punished for insubordination. In CoH the closest to dishonourable discharge is /kick, so that's what I'm always supporting after the scrapper has been given a few warnings.
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Orders? Obey? Insubordination? Dishonorable?
Wow.
Those are not exactly words or a mindset that I associate with having fun. So yeah, there's another reason I solo. I don't want to be ordered around in a GAME by someone who might be happier as a drill-sergeant.
Not to say I can't follow directions. I was an old-school Hami raider where a very high level of coordination was required. I did what I was told. But I understood the NECESSITY of doing so. But the normal PvE game? If I'm on a team that can't handle regular missions without ordering people around, I'm on a bad team. So I guess we're in agreement either you kick me, or I'll quit. Either way, we'll both be happier.
Seriously, this "teaming" thing is sounding less and less pleasant the farther we go in this thread.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Seriously, this "teaming" thing is sounding less and less pleasant the farther we go in this thread.
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I know what you mean. Glad I only team when I do TFs and I leading or one of my buddys is leading.
I just what to know when did Scrapper=Bad player, Bad Teammate.
I have play with Bad Tanks. like going in to a small group and dying bad. I don't think all tanks are bad.
I have play with bad Controllers, like trying to hear up a room on DE and causing team wipes. I don't think all controllers are bad. I could go on too.
Just because you play with one bad scrapper are 2, remember a lot of new players play Scrapper and Blaster, Don't group all Scrapper with them. That is why we have player notes.
I play the game to have fun if someone is telling me how to play and giving me non stop orders I will had a note and quite the team. I play to have fun this is a game.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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There is a solution though--compromise.
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Most scrappers already compromise. Rather than forcing the team to charge in at the exact same time as us to maximize the chaos, we compromise by letting them lag a few seconds behind before joining in the glorious carnage.
Meet us half way here, otherwise I'll just go back to demanding full team blitzes on every spawn when I run TFs. Those damn squishies need to grow a pair and join in the fun, they really kill my chaos/time ratio hanging back like that.
Infatum on Virtueverse