New Level Pact Squad to face the Toughest in CoH
By
10100101,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 19:36 in The Market and Inventions
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Pacting wasn't intended to be used for this purpose. Everybody knows that, and if you claim to not know that I'm going to flatly call you a lair. Pacting was so two people could always enjoy the same content together more or less.
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That's why the feature was introduced, but it was immediately obvious to everyone involved that it could and would be used to get offline characters to high levels. As far as I know the devs are OK with this because the online character is only earning at 1/2 their normal speed, so there is no reward rate disparity involved.
I don't think pacting to 50 is an exploit, or abusive. That's an honest answer.
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But it is yet another example of how certain people will judge based on their own standards (and for some people those standards are completely arbitrary) what is and what is not abuse.
The "I know it when I see it" is a joke to me.
Some people say people flipping in the market is abuse.
Some people say leveling too fast is abuse (but they won't state any but the most obvious 1-50 in 4 hours or something).
A dev has stated it is okay to repeat content if I do it for the enjoyment but not the rewards. Now if anyone cannot see the inherent problem with that definition I know I cannot communicate with them.
I'm just tired of all the "you're doing it wrong" from players. There won't be anyone left if they all get to define it.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I'd swear he said something about pacting with a buncha offline chars during this uber XP running debacle in an attempt to get them to 50 in like 10 hours.
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This is awesome. So, once again, according to some folks, using a mechanic placed in the game by the game developers is abusive and an exploit.
Wow. And some folks around here wonder why some players are up in arms over this whole issue 14 debacle.
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Pacting wasn't intended to be used for this purpose. Everybody knows that, and if you claim to not know that I'm going to flatly call you a lair. Pacting was so two people could always enjoy the same content together more or less.
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That's why the feature was introduced, but it was immediately obvious to everyone involved that it could and would be used to get offline characters to high levels. As far as I know the devs are OK with this because the online character is only earning at 1/2 their normal speed, so there is no reward rate disparity involved.
I don't think pacting to 50 is an exploit, or abusive. That's an honest answer.
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But it is yet another example of how certain people will judge based on their own standards (and for some people those standards are completely arbitrary) what is and what is not abuse.
The "I know it when I see it" is a joke to me.
Some people say people flipping in the market is abuse.
Some people say leveling too fast is abuse (but they won't state any but the most obvious 1-50 in 4 hours or something).
A dev has stated it is okay to repeat content if I do it for the enjoyment but not the rewards. Now if anyone cannot see the inherent problem with that definition I know I cannot communicate with them.
I'm just tired of all the "you're doing it wrong" from players. There won't be anyone left if they all get to define it.
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
I'd also like to add, as a side comment, that my initial train of thought for selling level pacts was this...
1. These Thug/Storm Masterminds were awesome and fun. I should make another team like that.
2. But they leveled too fast. I wish they leveled slower.
3. I could level pact them to dead-weights to slow them down.
4. I could give some of my friends 50s while slowing them down.
5. I could give the highest bidders 50s and make a pile of Infamy/Influence while slowing me down.
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.
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Based on your arguments alone I'm positive you of all people don't actually need a verbatim definition. You're well and above smart enough to know.
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I'm not psychic.
If the devs have standards they want us to follow, they can voice them publicly, or they can get stuffed.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.
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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.
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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.
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Where did you come from and why are you trolling the market board?
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.
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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.
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Where did you come from and why are you trolling the market board?
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Who are you and why do you think I have to explain myself to you?
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
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The "I know it when I see it" is a joke to me.
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It's a joke to anyone with critical thinking faculties beyond the protozoic stage.
If the devs want to set up rules, that's fine- it's their game, they can do whatever they want.
If they want to gravely punish players for breaking those rules, that's fine too- it's their game, they can do whatever they want.
If they want to punish players for breaking implied, nebulous and undefined rules, that's ridiculous and they can catch the next express handbasket down to the fiery 9th circle, and take their legion of prissy apologists along for the ride.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.
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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.
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Where did you come from and why are you trolling the market board?
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Keep in mind, a large number of this person's previous posts were in a thread "Stopping Farming", where he seems to blame "teh ebil farmers" for all that is wrong with the game.
Seems to me, he has now moved to a new target: The Ebil Marketeer.
Once farming and marketeering is stopped, all will be well within the game world, purple recipes will flow like water, and the skies will rain candy gumdrops. Oh, and everyone gets a magic pony too.
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.
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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.
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Where did you come from and why are you trolling the market board?
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Keep in mind, a large number of this person's previous posts were in a thread "Stopping Farming", where he seems to blame "teh ebil farmers" for all that is wrong with the game.
Seems to me, he has now moved to a new target: The Ebil Marketeer.
Once farming and marketeering is stopped, all will be well within the game world, purple recipes will flow like water, and the skies will rain candy gumdrops. Oh, and everyone gets a magic pony too.
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I don't have a problem with marketeers.. though people keep saying that... and the OP asked if anybody thought some of the behavior was exploitative. I answered him.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
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Define a "month".
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.
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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.
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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.
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I soloed on villainous to 50 in 175 hours. Please explain "twitchy".
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Please explain "twitchy".
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You'll know it when you see it...
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Please explain "twitchy".
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You'll know it when you see it...
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True. I think we all also know what a dead guy is when he posts. 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Please explain "twitchy".
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You'll know it when you see it...
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Bwaaaaah!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
another <qr>
This question keeps eating at me. When the devs created the game, they presumably intended the leveling speed to be something of a challenge that players would enjoy solving. The combination of stone tank + kinetics defender is an obvious example - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and the result is that the pair can, in general, level faster than either alone. Kinetics has been nerfed along the way, but it's still a great set, and it is uniquely positioned to offset all stone armor's weaknesses.
Up until the MA exploits were pretty obvious to identify. Extreme power set slotting and creative teaming combos were never (AFAIK) called exploits; when they were identified as being overpowered, the devs would change things to re-balance the game, but players were never punished for identifying or using those powersets or team combos (again AFAIK). Exploits were generally objects that gave XP that shouldn't have, or gave XP over and over when they should've only given it once; or they allowed people to do things the rules normally prohibited (like trading items between factions, or bypassing base permissions to steal things).
But in the MA the line between leveraging your characters' valid strengths and exploiting unintended behaviors is pretty blurry. I'm almost at the point of saying that instead of punishing people who create imbalanced maps or scenarios, the devs should reward it, and take steps to ensure that they can deal quickly with the information that surfaces. Bug Hunter is a step in this direction, but it's a reward that only appeals to a subset of the playerbase (arguably, the subset least equipped to aggressively discover loopholes) and it has other limitations besides.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
Heh interesting take on it
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But in the MA the line between leveraging your characters' valid strengths and exploiting unintended behaviors is pretty blurry. I'm almost at the point of saying that instead of punishing people who create imbalanced maps or scenarios, the devs should reward it, and take steps to ensure that they can deal quickly with the information that surfaces.
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This is a fantastic idea, Keep.
Much more constructive and less player-hostile than their current stance.
The carrot is more effective than the stick, especially when you refuse to explain which actions trigger the beatings.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Taking a chance posting to express my undying love for you Smurphy 
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Sounds like fun, but after 4 pages I started randomly clicking around and searching for the word "market" trying to figure out why this is in the The Market forum. GL to you though!
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But in the MA the line between leveraging your characters' valid strengths and exploiting unintended behaviors is pretty blurry. I'm almost at the point of saying that instead of punishing people who create imbalanced maps or scenarios, the devs should reward it, and take steps to ensure that they can deal quickly with the information that surfaces.
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This is a fantastic idea, Keep.
Much more constructive and less player-hostile than their current stance.
The carrot is more effective than the stick, especially when you refuse to explain which actions trigger the beatings.
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Seems that would take a major attitude adjustment on the part of the development team.
Snow_Globe posted on the badge thread where Positron initially expected people to have to farm MA. So he isn't playing it straight with the players to begin with on this.
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Sounds like fun, but after 4 pages I started randomly clicking around and searching for the word "market" trying to figure out why this is in the The Market forum. GL to you though!
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Because he'll be selling the level-pacts for inf.
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-cough- -blink- Somebody explain to me how pl'ing pact'd chars makes you 'good at the game'. IMO that doesn't add up.
It's not like your headshotting 100% or taking over the world with france... your just exploiting an xp loophole. Thats not skill.
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He wants to take a full group into missions with the toughest boss mobs made by the Devs.
How is that an xp loophole?
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I'm going to readily admit I might have gotten lost in here somewhere since I've been reading like 10 threads and hunting down Lost but I'd swear he said something about pacting with a buncha offline chars during this uber XP running debacle in an attempt to get them to 50 in like 10 hours.
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Fair enough - it's hard to follow 10 threads at once.
He did indicate that people could level pact once he has it set up.
So, is the level pact the problem?
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I'm going to go ahead and answer this honestly, since I'm borderline retarded and you can all do whatever.
It's not pacting. It's not doing things as intended. Pacting wasn't intended to be used for this purpose. Everybody knows that, and if you claim to not know that I'm going to flatly call you a lair. Pacting was so two people could always enjoy the same content together more or less. Thats a little simplified I know.
I mean, you CAN run out and slap a 5 year old right now and run away and I'm pretty sure you'll get away with it, but you're not going to because you're not supposed to, it's wrong, and you know it.
Anyway have fun with that. Flame on. Yes I know you're going to have a field day with the word intended. Enjoy. Come to think of it you'll probably have a field day with my analogy too.
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I have a problem with your inability to go past one issue to consider others. You saw one problem and simply made a blanket statement.
*EDIT* I have done level pact sales before. They were not considered abuse at the time. If they were considered abuse I would respect the decision and not take such actions.
A simple statement of "this is abuse and please don't do it" is what I am asking for. This simple statement is my purpose. I don't want to take an action and get my characters deleted or my account banned. I especially don't want this to occur when someone could simply tell me "don't do it" before I started.
That is why I have begun posting situations that I may or may not do. I would like a simply "don't do this" before I do some of these things. I find it problematic, revolting, pathetic, and ridiculous that you attempted to answer these questions and thoughts without even reading them.