New Level Pact Squad to face the Toughest in CoH
By
10100101,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 19:36 in The Market and Inventions
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That's already been dealt with: the 1500 per mission limit.
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You think that actually stops ticket farming?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I'm waiting for them to hit rpers next.
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Everytime someone makes a crude sexual remark in character, the global of that person is given a three day ban. Ha ha.
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That's already been dealt with: the 1500 per mission limit.
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You think that actually stops ticket farming?
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Nope, but I don't think ANYTHING whatsoever they have done will stop farming.
Exploiting sure, they can ban those folks. Farming, errrm, NO. Unless they want to ban anyone who has ever stepped into a demon map, nemesis/freakshow wasted city map.
Just pointing out that they already made an attempt. Even if it was half-[censored].
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I'm waiting for them to hit rpers next.
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Everytime someone makes a crude sexual remark in character, the global of that person is given a three day ban. Ha ha.
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Ummm, I didn't mean it sexually. So basically your global is the one getting the ban right? 
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I have yet to hear of anyone receiving any kind of warning or punishment for ticket farming, for example.
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If no one bothered to shout out how would we know ?
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I'm waiting for them to hit rpers next.
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Everytime someone makes a crude sexual remark in character, the global of that person is given a three day ban. Ha ha.
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Ummm, I didn't mean it sexually. So basically your global is the one getting the ban right?
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No, we both are. You talked with me, therefore you are now a known accomplice.
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I have yet to hear of anyone receiving any kind of warning or punishment for ticket farming, for example.
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If no one bothered to shout out how would we know ?
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People would know. Bans ARE something you know when you see it.
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I'm not sure the devs are concerned about a specific team being able to achieve high, or even extremely high, reward rates, even on tailored maps. They are definitely concerned with maps, and especially tailored maps, where anyone can achieve absurdly high reward rates. So taking the MM group through extremely hard boss maps should be fine, since most teams would get eaten alive by them; datamined reward rates for those maps should reveal they're in line with the rest of the game. Hopefully.
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That's a point that isn't often made but is critical. For example, I heard that Posi isn't happy that a blaster can soft cap ranged defense. (This may or may not be true, it's forum hearsay.) But as long as that remains expensive/difficult/uncommon, he has bigger fish to fry. There will always be hyper-optimized teams out there doing tasks in one tenth the time of average teams. The key is not that that exists, but what percentage of the total it is.
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The SS/fire+fire/kin duo farming difficult foes who all happen to do fire damage is the real brain twister. That combo lampshades the real weakness of the reward system: it can't really take into account the real effort involved in any given combat because it's pre-determined. I suppose a really finely tuned system would recognize the "rock paper scissors" effects in the game, and reward rock less for beating scissors and more for beating paper, but that's a bit much to ask.
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That one really is a toughie. I remember being shocked a couple of years back when my Elec shields brute ran a mission full of the PPD Peacebringers and police drones. I had previously run that mission with a different character and it had been challenging. But most of their attacks were pure energy and did pitiful damage against my Elec shields.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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I heard that Posi isn't happy that a blaster can soft cap ranged defense. (This may or may not be true, it's forum hearsay.) But as long as that remains expensive/difficult/uncommon, he has bigger fish to fry. There will always be hyper-optimized teams out there doing tasks in one tenth the time of average teams. The key is not that that exists, but what percentage of the total it is.
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Lets hope he never gets around to it. Because it would kill the game and he would just dig in his heals while people tried to tell him he was wrong.
I love all the morality police that took up the chant "you know it when you see it" and damnified countless players and their actions.
Apparently the people working for the company and being given direction by the dev team don't even know it when they see it.
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I heard that Posi isn't happy that a blaster can soft cap ranged defense. (This may or may not be true, it's forum hearsay.) But as long as that remains expensive/difficult/uncommon, he has bigger fish to fry. There will always be hyper-optimized teams out there doing tasks in one tenth the time of average teams. The key is not that that exists, but what percentage of the total it is.
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Lets hope he never gets around to it. Because it would kill the game and he would just dig in his heals while people tried to tell him he was wrong.
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I'm confident that Castle (and maybe Posi) would love to slap pvp diminished returns onto the pve game. Squishies cap out at 20% def and just shy of 40% res.
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Seriously... try it. A spawn of all (8) Fake Nemesis bosses is about as hard as you can get short of AV/EB spawns.
Again, these are mobs you find in game, and Synapse even made a challenge mission using these guys.
That's it... there were NO other factors. Nothing to help us out... nothing exploitive. Just spawns of litterally the hardest non-AV/EB mobs in the game (maybe all Master Illusionists would compare)... and because we were able to do it quickly... BAM! Accounts banned!
Add to it one final thing... that NO ONE will respond to me as to HOW this is exploitive, and perhaps you'll begin to realize why my accounts have been cancelled and I'll be leaving the game when the time runs out on them and several of my friends in game have also cancelled in the wake of this.
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I don't think you're telling the whole story. You make it sound like you created this mission and the magic ban stick whacked you in the back of the head without warning. I know players that got over 20 levels in meow farms that didn't get banned. As far as I know, deletions only happened for the most egregious farming benefits (benefits not tactics. These punishments seem to be the result of datamining rewards gained. So If you did a run or two of a meow farm, no punishment. Got from 1-50 on a meow farm? Character deleted. No difference in tactics, it's a difference of degree.). How many times did you run this map? How many folks went from 1-50 in a few hours on it? Because as it stands, your story doesn't add up.
I'm not saying I am in favor of you getting your account banned. I'm only saying that from what I've seen you had to be going pedal to the metal to get a character deleted, so I can only infer you had to be in full-frenzy mass PL mode to get your account banned. If you weren't farming that map heavily then I'd say you have good grounds to appeal the punishment and get it overturned.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
This thread has SO run its course....is there a way to ignore a thread?
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I did not have easy mobs that gave higher than normal xp. I did not have any NPC allies in the mission, much less ones that simply followed and buffed. I did not have object that blew up and killed everything while giving me xp. I did not use "the easiest mobs I could find. I didn't use any of the "PL'ers tricks". I made a map with the toughest bosses I could find.
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Did you make it using Bosses exclusively? A map filled with multiples of exactly one custom Boss enemy can afford less challenge than one with a mix of Minions and Lieutenants possessing varying attack and support powers, while at the same time providing greater payoff due to the MA's totally-inflexible-and-often-wrong one-size-fits-all XP/ticket reward scheme. Someone may have believed you arranged your mission the way you did for precisely this reason.
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No custom bosses. I used Fake Nems. I challenge you to take on a spawn of 8 fake nems. Heck, synapse made just such a challenge mission in beta!
As soon as you engage them... they bubble each other AND put up dispersion bubble effectively capping their defense. Someone earlier said luet might be harder (due to vengance) but capped defense is capped defense. It doesn't matter where they get it. Add to it, that once they're low on health (and they all have lots of health) they go into PFF and can't be touched. Add to it some more that they have a HARD hitting AOE ranged attack.
Seriously... try it. A spawn of all (8) Fake Nemesis bosses is about as hard as you can get short of AV/EB spawns.
Again, these are mobs you find in game, and Synapse even made a challenge mission using these guys.
That's it... there were NO other factors. Nothing to help us out... nothing exploitive. Just spawns of litterally the hardest non-AV/EB mobs in the game (maybe all Master Illusionists would compare)... and because we were able to do it quickly... BAM! Accounts banned!
Add to it one final thing... that NO ONE will respond to me as to HOW this is exploitive, and perhaps you'll begin to realize why my accounts have been cancelled and I'll be leaving the game when the time runs out on them and several of my friends in game have also cancelled in the wake of this.
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I was thinking more about this and I know why you were banned.
Fake nems give bonus xp due to them being ridiculously powerful and a pita for most AT's when they get low on health.
If you were running the map with some decent control (ie perma dom or 2) you could easily negate their phase powers. At which point you obviously were exceeding the hidden speed limit.
Anything that grants bonus xp is basically a trap because a min/max will likely exceed the hidden speed limit off of it. Their main criteria seems to be xp rate.
That's about the only reason I can come up with. Basically joo broke teh truce and are banned.
I have a hard time saying anything other than building a good team = exploiting the game. Evidently anyway.
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This thread has SO run its course....is there a way to ignore a thread?
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Actually it just seems to be heating up with new hot and dirty gossip.
To address your question though; do you really need someone to point out the obvious answer? Really?
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This thread has SO run its course....is there a way to ignore a thread?
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Actually it just seems to be heating up with new hot and dirty gossip.
To address your question though; do you really need someone to point out the obvious answer? Really?
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No, silly, it was a rhetorical question meant to get people to examine themselves, not turn their flamethrowers on me.
PS - This post is doing the same thing! *hint hint*
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This thread has SO run its course....is there a way to ignore a thread?
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Actually it just seems to be heating up with new hot and dirty gossip.
To address your question though; do you really need someone to point out the obvious answer? Really?
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No, silly, it was a rhetorical question meant to get people to examine themselves, not turn their flamethrowers on me.
PS - This post is doing the same thing! *hint hint*
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Sorry, I missed your rhetoric, just as you missed the new developments in this thread.
Bah was going to give you a tongue lashing, but you seem friendly and everyone is already on edge, so lets just settle this by saying:
People that level pact are ebil exploiters as are people that team. Or at least that's what I've gleaned from the dev's recent actions.
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I'm not saying I am in favor of you getting your account banned. I'm only saying that from what I've seen you had to be going pedal to the metal to get a character deleted, so I can only infer you had to be in full-frenzy mass PL mode to get your account banned. If you weren't farming that map heavily then I'd say you have good grounds to appeal the punishment and get it overturned.
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So, if someone created a character and sped their way to 50 through normal content, say Task Forces, and got from 1 to 50 in say 12 hours, wouldn't that be pedal to the metal? Should those characters also get deleted?
This is the underlying problem with that rationale.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
dombegone_:
They don't give "bonus xp" that I know of. They do give good xp... because, as you said, they're rediculously difficult. AV's give even better xp, because they're even more difficlut. A team of 6 properly built Fire/Rads can decimate an AV in about 5 seconds. Literally.
Of course, characters level quickly in that situation. That, in my mind, was besides the point. The point was, in my mind, that "I'm not using any 'exploits'. I'm doing something challenging". I'm left to assume (since no one at the company will get back with me) that even though there were no exploits and it was difficult, challenging, and fun for me and mine, that I'd "cheated".
And as a side point... I did not get a 50 in 1 or 2 hours like those using actual exploits. It WAS quickly, but again, in my mind that was besides the point since I wasn't using "exploits". The two 50's I got over the 2-4 weeks that it was up, was for PvP. I've been here years and have enough PvE 50s. I play my 50's almost exclusively at this point. But none of that info should even be pertinent.
The point is that I wasn't using any "game exploits". I used the tools provided, made a very difficult mission, and came up with a way to overcome that challenge using a lot of skill with friends, only for them to come back and without further clarification, tell me, you were cheating... banned!
I know some of you, like a poster back a bit, that think there is "another shoe"... but there isn't.
Back on subject though... G'luck with your endevour Smurpy. It's been fun teaming with you and your's when I did.
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I'm not saying I am in favor of you getting your account banned. I'm only saying that from what I've seen you had to be going pedal to the metal to get a character deleted, so I can only infer you had to be in full-frenzy mass PL mode to get your account banned. If you weren't farming that map heavily then I'd say you have good grounds to appeal the punishment and get it overturned.
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So, if someone created a character and sped their way to 50 through normal content, say Task Forces, and got from 1 to 50 in say 12 hours, wouldn't that be pedal to the metal? Should those characters also get deleted?
This is the underlying problem with that rationale.
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Exactly. If your SOLE metric is time... then you're simply trying to cover bad game design. You create something that specifically allows your players to do things you don't want them to, (level quicly) and instead of making changes to your product, you put some threat to those that might use your product to it's fullest and retroactively ban accounts for doing just that.
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I'm not saying I am in favor of you getting your account banned. I'm only saying that from what I've seen you had to be going pedal to the metal to get a character deleted, so I can only infer you had to be in full-frenzy mass PL mode to get your account banned. If you weren't farming that map heavily then I'd say you have good grounds to appeal the punishment and get it overturned.
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So, if someone created a character and sped their way to 50 through normal content, say Task Forces, and got from 1 to 50 in say 12 hours, wouldn't that be pedal to the metal? Should those characters also get deleted?
This is the underlying problem with that rationale.
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Exactly. If your SOLE metric is time... then you're simply trying to cover bad game design. You create something that specifically allows your players to do things you don't want them to, (level quicly) and instead of making changes to your product, you put some threat to those that might use your product to it's fullest and retroactively ban accounts for doing just that.
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Sadly enough, no matter how often I try to explain this point to people, they simply assume I am a dirty exploiting PLer who did it.
Me and my whole army of 8 50s over 5 years. Where I have seen average leveling time through normal solo play on the lowest difficulty drop from 600 hours to 175.
The devs have made leveling easier and now are complaining people are doing it too fast. It boggles my mind.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Also, money's tight for me on Freedom. Do you take I.O.U.'s, Smurphy?
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I think it'd be funny if Smurph accepted indentured servitude in lieu of payment- labor in his farms until your drops pay off your debt.
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For a minute there, I thought indentured servitude was something graphic and explicit and not something I could post about ... until I looked it up. Sorry, the mind wanders.
Hrm. Dear Devs: New market object: Indentured Servant.
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I thought it was maids with false teeth...
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
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dombegone_:
They don't give "bonus xp" that I know of. They do give good xp... because, as you said, they're rediculously difficult. AV's give even better xp, because they're even more difficlut. A team of 6 properly built Fire/Rads can decimate an AV in about 5 seconds. Literally.
Of course, characters level quickly in that situation. That, in my mind, was besides the point. The point was, in my mind, that "I'm not using any 'exploits'. I'm doing something challenging". I'm left to assume (since no one at the company will get back with me) that even though there were no exploits and it was difficult, challenging, and fun for me and mine, that I'd "cheated".
And as a side point... I did not get a 50 in 1 or 2 hours like those using actual exploits. It WAS quickly, but again, in my mind that was besides the point since I wasn't using "exploits". The two 50's I got over the 2-4 weeks that it was up, was for PvP. I've been here years and have enough PvE 50s. I play my 50's almost exclusively at this point. But none of that info should even be pertinent.
The point is that I wasn't using any "game exploits". I used the tools provided, made a very difficult mission, and came up with a way to overcome that challenge using a lot of skill with friends, only for them to come back and without further clarification, tell me, you were cheating... banned!
I know some of you, like a poster back a bit, that think there is "another shoe"... but there isn't.
Back on subject though... G'luck with your endevour Smurpy. It's been fun teaming with you and your's when I did.
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by bonus, I just meant higher than a normal boss.
I certainly don't think you were exploiting, but the only explainable reason I can come up with is that:
You made a very effective and efficient team that tackled content that when done at a very fast rate rewards xp faster than their secret speed limit.
It is retarded that it has come down to this but: If you are a good player and you min/max I'd avoid running missions in MA altogether. If you do decide to go there I'd go out and kill a generic mob and record the xp (ie council?) if the mob you are fighting in MA rewards more xp and you then combine it with a powergamer mentality you might be stepping in to a speed trap.
The devs are hiding in the bushes and giving out speeding tickets for people driving too fast on a hwy with no posted speed limit.
They should update their stance on MA from "not intended to be farmed" to "not intended for fast players".
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I'm not saying I am in favor of you getting your account banned. I'm only saying that from what I've seen you had to be going pedal to the metal to get a character deleted, so I can only infer you had to be in full-frenzy mass PL mode to get your account banned. If you weren't farming that map heavily then I'd say you have good grounds to appeal the punishment and get it overturned.
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So, if someone created a character and sped their way to 50 through normal content, say Task Forces, and got from 1 to 50 in say 12 hours, wouldn't that be pedal to the metal? Should those characters also get deleted?
This is the underlying problem with that rationale.
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First let me be clear that I'm just observing what seems to be the case for MA content, not defending/advocating the devs' actions.
There have been longstanding highly publicized ways to get insane levels of xp per hour using normal non-AE content. A couple of fire/kins dual running Battle Maiden with a perma-46 will give the SK'd lowbie a fast ride. A team of 8 fire/rad controllers can basically self-PL. I'm sure the devs aren't happy with that, but as long as that activity doesn't become dominant they focus on other stuff. To take your example, if people occasionally got to 50 in 12 hours via TFs then the devs for sure wouldn't do anything. If it became widespread they would. In practice, it's always a matter of degree.
The issue with AE farming wasn't that it existed, it was that it dominated the AE, IMO. I suspect that they'll eventually change MA so that you have to have mixed ranks for the main group in a map and they'll eliminate the auto-SK system. Once they've done those you'll still be able to farm to your heart's delight in the AE but the rate of return will be no different than traditional farms.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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From what's been going on the last few days, it's obvious that Customer Services does NOT know it at all, let alone see it. EDIT: The pages and pages of farm arcs in the MA which are [censored] obvious but then they have idiocy like the stuff that has been stating all over the forums.
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It is increasingly obvious that the sole criteria for dev action seems to be leveling speed. It looks like it has nothing to do with exploits, abuse, risk or anything else. But if you level fast enough to trip whatever trigger the devs put in place, you get hammered. Those using some discretion seem to be OK.
I have yet to hear of anyone receiving any kind of warning or punishment for ticket farming, for example.
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That's already been dealt with: the 1500 per mission limit.
I'm waiting for them to hit rpers next.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!