New Level Pact Squad to face the Toughest in CoH
By
10100101,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 19:36 in The Market and Inventions
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You're contradicting yourself. The usage connot be down and the PLing where it was. A massive fraction of the initial use before the Meow change was PLing.
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The concept is per capita vs total population.
Edit
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I don't have to be anti-PL or even someone who doesn't farm/PL to disagree with what I see as your position on knowledge of what could get people in trouble with all this, just as I don't have to agree with the devs for even making it an issue.
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I have read the above three times now and I still have no idea what you are going on about.
you're wasting your time Uber, he's immune to logic & reality.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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The concept is per capita vs total population.
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How are you defining "per-capita PLing?"
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This thread has SO run its course....is there a way to ignore a thread?
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Actually it just seems to be heating up with new hot and dirty gossip.
To address your question though; do you really need someone to point out the obvious answer? Really?
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It just goes to show you are ignorant the anti farming crew is. Smurphy makes a simple statement, and says he's going to run the hardest missions available, and receive the most rewards possible, and people make a stink over it. I think next time someone runs something like this they should add "nyah nyah nyah you can't stop me"
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While they have made it easier to level, the idea that the intent of MA was to make it even easier by a factor of 10 just doesn't ring true.
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I have never ran on a team spec'd out to be better against a certain type of enemy, but I can see 8 fire/rads trollers, or 8 storm/elec defenders running missions filled with nothing but bosses that they are specialised against leveling very very quickly.
In the past, we have been able to spec our characters to be very good against some enemies. Take a Defender Storm/Elec superteam for instance. 8 of them together have energy defense and energy resist both capped. Make arcs with enemies that have only energy attacks. What MA did was now give us the means to create missions with only these enemies.
With these specialized teams and being able to create maps where these specialized teams can drop bosses like they were rikti monkeys, leveling speed increasing by a factor of 10 is possible.
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The concept is per capita vs total population.
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How are you defining "per-capita PLing?"
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What a great question. I usual define per capita as instantaneous value and as a percentage of the currently online population.
Even that is not all I would like due to the presence of multiboxers
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What a great question. I usual define per capita as instantaneous value and as a percentage of the currently online population.
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Well, I can't see how you can possibly say that per-capita PLing is not down significantly now. There are...
1) fewer people in the most populous zone MAs
2) fewer zone MAs in significant use (before the Comm Officer change, I couldn't find zones where they weren't in heavy use, except maybe Galaxy City)
3) less apparent PLees. I define an apparent PLee as a character with a security level significantly lower than the zone level, hanging out in the MA frequently zoning in and out of the digitizer beam.
One way we can conclude that the per-capita use of PL hasn't gone down is to assume that the per-capita amount of PL before was actually smaller because a smaller percentage of people were doing it before the dev's changes. However, I think there is significant anecdotal evidence to the contrary, because (if nothing else) of the sheer volume of broadcasts regarding it (usually Meow-related) in nearly all zones.
The remaining way is to have the same percentage of PLers in a smaller total MA participants. However, it's clear that things like Meow had such simple access (being, among other things, immediately in beginner zones) it greatly increased ease of use of PL by people who otherwise did not seek it out before (or after). Again, there is significant evidence of this, only some of which is anecdotal.[*] For 1.5 days after the Comm Officer change, popular MA zones echoed with the equivalent of "aw man!". This would not be the case if these players were willing to/able to/aware of PLing using other means, inside the MA or out.[*] Custom nobs in the MA were previously significantly easier to defeat in large numbers. This lowered the bar on what builds could effectively act as the PLer in such missions. Builds that were good PL builds before I14 still function fine, but there are fewer them than were able to PL in the MA.
Yes, PLing is going on still, in and out of the MA. Yes, the MA is still one of if not the premier place to get leveled to 50 as fast as you can. But it's simply disinginuous to suggest that it's going on at anything like the population density it was between the release of I14 and the combined change to Comm Officers and custom mobs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Wow just wow um I gave you both definitions cause the definition of the one refers you to the other word but wow you live in your own little world. Your logic astounds me and your complete lack of common sense is just well i think i lowered my IQ just trying to comprehend it. Taking everyone's advice and placing you on ignore before i loose my sanity trying to contemplate yours. I thought it was bizarre getting pm's from people i don't know about you now i see they were wise.
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Confirmed: You still haven't figured out that if there are two defintinons that they are both acceptable uses, and the one that I was referring to was the second.
oy, from the looks of things, you better put me on ignore, your IQ couldn't stand to get much lower.
Edit: not to mention I wasn't the only one to correct you.
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@Philly:
Dictionaries are great but usage and common sense prevail at times as well.
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Guess your ignore list will grow, maybe someday it can be as big as the Goat's list. Such illustrious company.
And I won't even touch the question of why people are too scared to actually speak up in the thread if they think something about me. We have a word for people like that around here, but it will just get filtered out.
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Think I'll /ignore both of you and save myself on high blood pressure meds.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
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What a great question. I usual define per capita as instantaneous value and as a percentage of the currently online population.
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Well, I can't see how you can possibly say that per-capita PLing is not down significantly now. There are...
1) fewer people in the most populous zone MAs
2) fewer zone MAs in significant use (before the Comm Officer change, I couldn't find zones where they weren't in heavy use, except maybe Galaxy City)
3) less apparent PLees. I define an apparent PLee as a character with a security level significantly lower than the zone level, hanging out in the MA frequently zoning in and out of the digitizer beam.
One way we can conclude that the per-capita use of PL hasn't gone down is to assume that the per-capita amount of PL before was actually smaller because a smaller percentage of people were doing it before the dev's changes. However, I think there is significant anecdotal evidence to the contrary, because (if nothing else) of the sheer volume of broadcasts regarding it (usually Meow-related) in nearly all zones.
The remaining way is to have the same percentage of PLers in a smaller total MA participants. However, it's clear that things like Meow had such simple access (being, among other things, immediately in beginner zones) it greatly increased ease of use of PL by people who otherwise did not seek it out before (or after). Again, there is significant evidence of this, only some of which is anecdotal.[*] For 1.5 days after the Comm Officer change, popular MA zones echoed with the equivalent of "aw man!". This would not be the case if these players were willing to/able to/aware of PLing using other means, inside the MA or out.[*] Custom nobs in the MA were previously significantly easier to defeat in large numbers. This lowered the bar on what builds could effectively act as the PLer in such missions. Builds that were good PL builds before I14 still function fine, but there are fewer them than were able to PL in the MA.
Yes, PLing is going on still, in and out of the MA. Yes, the MA is still one of if not the premier place to get leveled to 50 as fast as you can. But it's simply disinginuous to suggest that it's going on at anything like the population density it was between the release of I14 and the combined change to Comm Officers and custom mobs.
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Power leveling and exploit maps are not the same thing. There was overlap but there were plenty of people going onto a comm officer map just to grab tickets.
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Power leveling and exploit maps are not the same thing. There was overlap but there were plenty of people going onto a comm officer map just to grab tickets.
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I'm sure all those "L12 Dom LF meow team" were in it for the tickets.
Did you actually read what you quoted there? Ticket farmers weren't filling the MAs with characters under-level for the zones they were in.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Actually, yeah, low level is where ticket farming pays off the most.
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Power leveling and exploit maps are not the same thing. There was overlap but there were plenty of people going onto a comm officer map just to grab tickets.
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I'm sure all those "L12 Dom LF meow team" were in it for the tickets.
Did you actually read what you quoted there? Ticket farmers weren't filling the MAs with characters under-level for the zones they were in.
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Go into atlas now and look how many 20s 30s 40s and 50s you will find looking for team. The ticket farmers were running below level missions in mass because the comm officers paid incredibly well. The numbers were something like 4 million inf/15 minute run on an 8 man map and about 3k+ tickets. thats 1 1/3 merits/min equivalent and heck of a lot more inf.
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Actually, yeah, low level is where ticket farming pays off the most.
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In case you haven't noticed, you don't have to be low-level to get low-level drops from the ticket vendors. For any recipie I've looked at, the highest sales througput density is clustered at the level cap for desirable low-level recipies. If you want to make the most money over time, instead of just the most money per individual sale, you don't bother parking someone at low levels. More people are placing bids at the recipie cap levels, so you're better using high-level characters to farm for tickets, since they're universally more effective at combat, and they earn more inf per kill on the side.
So no, I disagree completely.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Go into atlas now and look how many 20s 30s 40s and 50s you will find looking for team.
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I have. It's way, way down from where it was.
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The ticket farmers were running below level missions in mass because the comm officers paid incredibly well. The numbers were something like 4 million inf/15 minute run on an 8 man map and about 3k+ tickets. thats 1 1/3 merits/min equivalent and heck of a lot more inf.
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You do realize that those rewards were proportional with XP, right? Yes, level 42 Comm Officers were massive reward in XP, inf and tickets.
I saw nothing that indicated that the majority of people were coming along on the ride for tickets. This was especially true when being on a large team diluted ticket drops worse than standard drops. (Ticket rates were related to the inverse of team size squared). For essentially the whole of the time that the Meow farm was available, if you were farming tickets on a large team you were really ignorant or unobservant.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I have. It's way, way down from where it was.
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Everything is way down on MA from where it was. Overall usage on servers in general is down. We were talking percentage
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I saw nothing that indicated that the majority of people were coming along on the ride for tickets. This was especially true when being on a large team diluted ticket drops worse than standard drops. (Ticket rates were related to the inverse of team size squared). For essentially the whole of the time that the Meow farm was available, if you were farming tickets on a large team you were really ignorant or unobservant.
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Seeing as I did the numbers and was the person that posted them here you are quite off base. Are you trying to adopt Nethergoats style of argument where you just become endlessly insulting until the other person is too ticked off to respond ?
After the ticket fix it became exceptionally advantageous in both terms of inf and tickets to farm in large teams that could clear quickly. The patch pretty much completely eliminated the penalties for large teams and actually gave a significant bonus.
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Actually, yeah, low level is where ticket farming pays off the most.
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Should have warned you agreeing with me is verbotten on this board.
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Seeing as I did the numbers and was the person that posted them here you are quite off base. Are you trying to adopt Nethergoats style of argument where you just become endlessly insulting until the other person is too ticked off to respond ?
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I was in that thread, and I posted numbers as well. You never disputed them. Hoewver, this whole ad-homenim retort of yours is negated by the response below, since it addresses how you here have convenviently ignored part of my post above.
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After the ticket fix it became exceptionally advantageous in both terms of inf and tickets to farm in large teams that could clear quickly. The patch pretty much completely eliminated the penalties for large teams and actually gave a significant bonus.
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Yeah, guess what? Meow farming went on for a couple of weeks before the ticket fix. So are you claiming all those people looking for 8-man teams before the ticket fix still farming for tickets at ~1/64th the rate of doing it solo?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Actually, yeah, low level is where ticket farming pays off the most.
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Should have warned you agreeing with me is verbotten on this board.
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My disagreement with what he said has nothing to do with you. You might notice that nothing I said to him references you at all.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yeah, guess what? Meow farming went on for a couple of weeks before the ticket fix. So are you claiming all those people looking for 8-man teams before the ticket fix still farming for tickets at ~1/64th the rate of doing it solo?
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The ticket fix was what caused the explosion. Prior to that all boss map or all lieutenant maps were the way to go depending on your abilities.
Second your math is in error. First you are neglecting the direct inf drops which was averaging around 4 to 4.5 million a run. A team of 8 could easily clear those maps in less than 15 minutes a reasonable team where everyone had at least some AOE could clear it in less than 10. This gives conservatively 24 million inf an hour. Pre ticket fix you are neglecting inf income.
Post ticket fix, the inf income was the same but in addition 3K+ tickets a run on a team of 8 were common results. This gives 18k/hr and 24 million inf.
Hardly what you are trying portray as a horrible rate of return.
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I was in that thread, and I posted numbers as well. You never disputed them. Hoewver, this whole ad-homenim retort of yours is negated by the response below, since it addresses how you here have convenviently ignored part of my post above.
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No you are comparing applles and oranges. The point was never that ticket farming was all of meow farming just that it was a very large part. The combination of the comm officers plus the patch pumped it up, now it has moved on to farming level 53 enemies boss maps and other tactics that are designed to maximize tickets+inf/time
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Yeah, guess what? Meow farming went on for a couple of weeks before the ticket fix. So are you claiming all those people looking for 8-man teams before the ticket fix still farming for tickets at ~1/64th the rate of doing it solo?
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The ticket fix was what caused the explosion. Prior to that all boss map or all lieutenant maps were the way to go depending on your abilities.
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I think your memory is faulty. The explosion was well underway before they fixed tickets. Farmers were doing just fine without the ticket fix. You didn't need or want eight people in the map if you were a farmer.
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Second your math is in error. First you are neglecting the direct inf drops which was averaging around 4 to 4.5 million a run. A team of 8 could easily clear those maps in less than 15 minutes a reasonable team where everyone had at least some AOE could clear it in less than 10. This gives conservatively 24 million inf an hour. Pre ticket fix you are neglecting inf income.
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I was making 30+M inf an hour solo. So no, my math is not faulty. And that wasn't even on a Meow map.
A good farmer with a good build always does best either alone or with only their secondary accounts on the map.
If you want to argue that the majority of the activity before the comm officer fix was substandard farmers who also happened to not be PLing people, I think you've proven my point for me.
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No you are comparing applles and oranges. The point was never that ticket farming was all of meow farming just that it was a very large part. The combination of the comm officers plus the patch pumped it up, now it has moved on to farming level 53 enemies boss maps and other tactics that are designed to maximize tickets+inf/time
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I never said it was. Very few of the players I knew who were ... making inventive use of the MA were messing with Meow farms. They all had stuff that worked better.
The point is not what was good farming. It was how much of the MA activity was fueled by desire to PL characters (and earn tickets on the side) as opposed to earn tickets on their own. All the explanation of ticket rates in the world does nothing to explain away things that would not happen if people were farming for tickets primarily. For example, after the Comm Officer change, all the other ways to earn tickets remained in effect for a while longer, and yet the mass teaming and armies of lowbies fell off dramatically within two days.
The farmers had already moved on. The PLers were what were making up the majority of people in the AEs. When they left the farmers and the less public PLers were still there, but the point of all this is that PLing dropped off dramatically.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The farmers had already moved on. The PLers were what were making up the majority of people in the AEs. When they left the farmers and the less public PLers were still there, but the point of all this is that PLing dropped off dramatically.
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In an absolute sense yes, in terms of percentage of AE use that is not so apparent. AE use is overall down post nerf and ticket cap but as far as I can see the big use is still to gain fast xp or fast tickets. If anything I am seeing more XP oriented farming than I did before. (I am perfectly aware that I am a sample of 1 and rather biased to begin with).
There is also something I am seeing now that I never saw pre nerf, which is teams going into AE farm missions and staying there after they have hit the ticket caps. During the meow mania individuals who hit their caps would run out and grab a couple of gold rolls run back in. If a team hit the bonus max they would pile out or complete the mission reset and move on. Now I see teams even more focused on the xp that don't seem to give a hoot about efficient earning strategies.
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Go into atlas now and look how many 20s 30s 40s and 50s you will find looking for team.
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I have. It's way, way down from where it was.
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I don't 'do' Another Fan any more, but can't help chiming in to note that the proof of Uber's statements is in the pudding.
Market prices on recipes that were 'crashed' by runaway farming have bounced back.
Anyone can see this, it doesn't rely on anecdotal MA head counts- stuff that was selling for 10k is back up to 6 million.
Cratered supply = way less farming, period.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Go into atlas now and look how many 20s 30s 40s and 50s you will find looking for team.
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I have. It's way, way down from where it was.
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I don't 'do' Another Fan any more, but can't help chiming in to note that the proof of Uber's statements is in the pudding.
Market prices on recipes that were 'crashed' by runaway farming have bounced back.
Anyone can see this, it doesn't rely on anecdotal MA head counts- stuff that was selling for 10k is back up to 6 million.
Cratered supply = way less farming, period.
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Lol thank you for making my point.
I have to wonder though how I manage to be on both your ignore list and your obsess over list.
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Go into atlas now and look how many 20s 30s 40s and 50s you will find looking for team.
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I have. It's way, way down from where it was.
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I don't 'do' Another Fan any more, but can't help chiming in to note that the proof of Uber's statements is in the pudding.
Market prices on recipes that were 'crashed' by runaway farming have bounced back.
Anyone can see this, it doesn't rely on anecdotal MA head counts- stuff that was selling for 10k is back up to 6 million.
Cratered supply = way less farming, period.
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Lol thank you for making my point.
I have to wonder though how I manage to be on both your ignore list and your obsess over list.
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Well, considering that he seems to have an obsession with talking about his ignore list, it might be impossible to not be on both.
I was going to say though, if there is anything that might give you some pause to rethink your argument, it would be who you suddenly find yourself allied with.
Let's not forget that the last few updates have sped up the normal leveling rate considerably. the xp curve smoothing. day job double xp, addition of radio missions(decreased traveling times) have all shortened the leveling time acros the board. So much so that they actually allow you to disable xp for that very reason. I think alot of the vets here are remembering the grinds of old and applying that memory to a totally different game we have today.
If a person were to only play a toon while he had patrol xp to burn that toon would be leveling the same as a person doing it all on dbl xp weekend. and if you say only have an hour per night to play and spread that time amog 7 alts you will level 7 different toons to 50 at double the rate before those changes.