we're not arguing that more stuff is a bad thing, just more stuff with restrictions placed on it for no reason other than "i want it to"
There are limits past which Origin simply shouldn't go, especially - or rather specifically - this late in the game.
Directly tied to origin?
We have stores. Heroside, *sort of,* contacts (your starting contact is determined by origin, and at 30-35, which store you end up having to unlock - though you can do any origin store's mission. You can do them all, in fact.)
The problem when it comes to powers is that there's no *reason* to limit them to origin - even for pools. For instance, many people would say Dark Miasma is "Magic," and have argued how "wrong" it is for a Bots mastermind to be tech and have it - yet at least one of those same masterminds explains it as sending out a cloud of nanobots to produce the effects. Another can say "We have portals that take us to other deimensions, why should I not use one to draw and direct energy from elsewhere?"
Or there's the common, on these boards, "I've got a natural hero, he can't have a travel power or he won't be natural!" OK... so does he walk to the next state when he wants to visit someone, or take a car, bus, train or airplane? Does he use trains or teleporters to get from zone to zone? Guess what, he's using technology despite being natural, enjoy the backpack.
Pretty much any power you can come up with as "having" to be for an origin or "definitively" X origin, I'm betting can have multiple alternate explanations covering other origins. And I have yet to hear a good explanation as to why one origin can't use something hinting at another origin.
The biggest issue, though, is that this is being suggested over five years into the game. Some people have picked origin, yes. I'd lay money down that a majority of the characters in game just clicked one to go to the next screen - and don't forget the epics which are tied to an origin (three natural, one science) and never had a choice. Suddenly you're putting in limitations that there's no way they could have ever known about when they made that character in 2004.
Or, as you put it...
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So you'd pick origin for the same reason and live with the consequences.
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... but they *haven't* for the past five years.
If the devs went and started asking "What do you want to see in COH 2," feel free to suggest it. Doing anything past storylines, though, this far along in the game? Just not a good idea.
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Now in conclusion, I reject your theorem and it's accompanying ideas. Your judgment and presumptions make you appear and foolish and unintelligent due to your inability to see that more stuff is a good thing.
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I reject your reality and substitute it for my own! (Name who said that!)
In all seriousness, I'm with the others. Making anything that is game-play wise Origin specific would be a detriment to this game. Thankfully, the devs agree with us and will not be making anything Origin specific that would have an impact on game-play.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
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You're over reacting. A lot.
And also wrong.
Great concept is important, I imagine thats why you picked the powers you picked, not for their effects but for their concept. So you'd pick origin for the same reason and live with the consequences. I really do not understand how this is even an issue it's like you guys are just opposed to new things being added to the game. Maybe you guys should just go play WoW. That way you can have a very clear goal to reach for, and an end game where every character has exactly the same gear or is reaching for the same gear. it might be mroe your style.
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Despite all the logic and reasoning we give to you, you simply respond with "BUT I WANT IT!!!"
Fine, have it your way. You can view everyone as wrong and you can firmly believe that you're right. You can cling to your idea forever, but it's never going to happen.
Thread over.
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You're not presenting logic or reason you're presenting a bunch of teenagers who's entire argument is "If I can't have everything I don't want anything at all."
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You're the one that is not presenting logic nor reasoning other than "I want it this way."
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
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You're over reacting. A lot.
And also wrong.
Great concept is important, I imagine thats why you picked the powers you picked, not for their effects but for their concept. So you'd pick origin for the same reason and live with the consequences. I really do not understand how this is even an issue it's like you guys are just opposed to new things being added to the game. Maybe you guys should just go play WoW. That way you can have a very clear goal to reach for, and an end game where every character has exactly the same gear or is reaching for the same gear. it might be mroe your style.
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Despite all the logic and reasoning we give to you, you simply respond with "BUT I WANT IT!!!"
Fine, have it your way. You can view everyone as wrong and you can firmly believe that you're right. You can cling to your idea forever, but it's never going to happen.
Thread over.
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You're not presenting logic or reason you're presenting a bunch of teenagers who's entire argument is "If I can't have everything I don't want anything at all."
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Their argument: "If I can't have everything I don't want anything."
Your argument: "You're wrong, because you don't think the way I do, and naturally the way I think is correct. The best way to deal with you is to belittle your ideas and insult you until you go away."
If they are teenagers, that makes you what? Four?
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Percy Winkley in that origins arc kinda hints at some other stuff, but I'm not sure if that's just for flavor, or something more.
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
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As for only adding "flavor" do tell me what the correct flavor for my mutant origin robot is.
Take your time.
Suddenly everything you've said makes sense.
Not in an I agree with you way, because I don't. But more in a "I understand why you're being so ..." well you get the idea.
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Suddenly everything you've said makes sense.
Not in an I agree with you way, because I don't. But more in a "I understand why you're being so ..." well you get the idea.
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How about you actually answer the question?
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If you do the work to create origin flavored powers then make them available to everyone then what was the point in making them at all?
You say I don't get it, I say it's obvious that you don't get it and you're not even trying to, you're stuck on this notion that nothing could possibly work when tied to an origin. Then why even pick an origin at all, lets just remove them from the game entirely because obviously they serve no purpose and you're not interested in having them serve one.
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Personally, I think the Origins the way they are is too restrictive. There should be an origin choice for each power set/pool that you choose.
I have characters that are Mutant/Tech or Magic/Tech in origin. Which "Origin Power Pools" would they be able to choose from?
I also have a Tech character that uses Nanobots. He's an Empathy/Electric Defender. However, the Nanobots can create pretty much anything; A Nemesis Staff, a jetpack, rocket boots, Tarot cards, a broom. You get the idea, I'm sure.
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I reject your reality and substitute it for my own! (Name who said that!)
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Adam Savage from Mythbusters.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
wow, didn't expect things to get so bent...
We are aware than origin specific powers need not be restrictive, exclusive or even all inclusive?
Example: There are one or two temp powers already in play that have one effect for most players and a different effect for those that share the origin of the temp power.
I see no reason why that couldn't be applied to other already existing temp powers or procs.
Nor do I see any problem with allowing minor power boost type bonuses when teamed up with toons of the same origin.
But that aside; I was assuming there'd be more frequent powerset proliferations based on Breakthrough's premise or more detailed arcs available from the contacts that Ashley McKnight sends you to.
Or even more origin specific EATs (being that we already have two that are origin specific) along with corresponding EAT arcs.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
The problem is, the devs make a lot of effort to make every AT/Powerset combination balanced and equally viable to a team. They've always tried to give players as much freedom as possible for character concepts, and a lot of origin-based ideas run against that.
Even a boost with players of the same origin could result in players getting rejected for having the 'wrong' origin.
I wouldn't mind a few small things along the line though. As I said, we already get one permatemp power at level 1, why not get another one at level 10, and so on?
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Just because you wrongly believe origin should mean something? It does - its a characters origin - it has role playing and story relevance.
ANYTHING you add to it as a mechanic lessens its existing value.
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Just as a note - I have a character that is tech origin, yet anything tied to origin mechanically would most like screw him up, because he uses his tech to hide the fact that he cannot use magic. Like the technomages in, what? the Babylon 5 universe I think it was?
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Why is it a bad idea to have origin based power pools available? Besides you wanting to be able to have everything?
I've said it once and i'll say it again, by your logic I shouldn't be limited to only choosing blast powers for my blaster. Whats the difference between my Blaster not being able to take Katana Melee and your tech guy not being able to use Mutant origin powers? Personally I don't see a difference and I don't see why anyone would be opposed to this.
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You're confusing options that NOBODY can have with options that only SOME people can have.
You want your MM to have fire blast or your Blaster to have katana. Well, NOBODY can have that right now. You aren't missing out on anything that anyone can have because no Blaster has katana. The proposed idea here is to have powers that are restricted to origins. That's not the same thing as powers that nobody of a certain AT can have.
This would be like making it so only Natural Blasters can have katana. Now, some Blasters can have it. But YOU can't. Not unless you make a new Blaster with the Natural origin. And ONLY with the Natural origin. You can't make a tech, magic, mutant, or science themed Blaster with a katana.
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Fact of the matter is Origins need to have a point because at the moment they don't.
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Why do they need to have a point? They're just a roleplaying mechanic, a way to personalize our characters, and a nod to comic books. Do titles need to have a point? Do badges? Do costume parts?
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You're entire argument hinges on players being able to have free reign. Well by your logic I want my Bots/FF MM to be able to throw fire balls.
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Thats a good idea, has been sugggested in the past. Seperate out the 3 personal attacks for MMs into a seperate choice, rather than lumping them in with the pet type. Would be great for concept reasons, could help with redraw issues, would allow MMs to benefit from proliferation more etc...
So yeah, Robots and fireballs for teh win.
Limiting powers or costumes or such based on origin? no thanks.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
I'm actually gonna go the opposite direction on this one, OP--
I think origins should just be taken out. Why? I see origins as an artifact of an interesting idea that was experimented with and eventually tossed out...except for the origins part that we have today.
As it is now, it's mainly an RP tool--but what prevents us from simply including a blurb about it in our character bios? This also solves the problem of multi-origin characters. What if I had a magic-user that also used technology?
AFAIK, the only thing in-game that origin determines are things like SOs and DOs. Is distinguishing between origins REALLY necessary for that? You could just as easily have 3 tiers of enhancements (basic, intermediate, advanced, or something like that).
I dunno, just my thoughts on the matter. On the other hand, I suppose it IS cool having the origin symbol thing by your name. XD
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I'm actually gonna go the opposite direction on this one, OP--
I think origins should just be taken out. Why? I see origins as an artifact of an interesting idea that was experimented with and eventually tossed out...except for the origins part that we have today.
As it is now, it's mainly an RP tool--but what prevents us from simply including a blurb about it in our character bios? This also solves the problem of multi-origin characters. What if I had a magic-user that also used technology?
AFAIK, the only thing in-game that origin determines are things like SOs and DOs. Is distinguishing between origins REALLY necessary for that? You could just as easily have 3 tiers of enhancements (basic, intermediate, advanced, or something like that).
I dunno, just my thoughts on the matter. On the other hand, I suppose it IS cool having the origin symbol thing by your name. XD
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I can't see them being taken out being that so much has already been invested into it:
Contacts
Enhancements
Arcs
Characters
2 Issues
etc.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Clearly origin was originally meant to be more important. It is one of two icons shown over people's heads and in the search (along with archetype). Your info page lists origin up top, right by archetype. Even the "hello" bind by default says your origin+archetype - "Hello! I am Outlaw Sniper, a level 50 Natural origin Blaster."
But I do agree that orgin as it is currently implemented shouldn't have any new effect on the game. If they add things specific to origins -- even if they are completely "balanced" -- there will always be people for whome the new abilities don't fit or wish they had a different origin.
We already have Trick Arrow defenders who feel they have to be a certain origin, because that's the only way they can light their oil slick. We have people who don't take the Medicine pool because it feels too "techy"
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
my idea on origins would be something of each origin allowing earlier access to existing powers/costume parts/weapon styles that are already available to all. for instance a natural origin toon could access say super jump with out having to take kick or combat jumping. and a tech origin could take health without swift or hurdle.
all those powers are already accessible to all and having earlier access to them by origin would not harm the game.
My examples could be tweaked of course but i could see having fun deciding what to take by what i need for concept or making my builds more flexible in certain areas.
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my idea on origins would be something of each origin allowing earlier access to existing powers/costume parts/weapon styles that are already available to all. for instance a natural origin toon could access say super jump with out having to take kick or combat jumping. and a tech origin could take health without swift or hurdle.
all those powers are already accessible to all and having earlier access to them by origin would not harm the game.
My examples could be tweaked of course but i could see having fun deciding what to take by what i need for concept or making my builds more flexible in certain areas.
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The question then becomes, though, why would those origins have earlier access to those powers?
Using your examples (yes, I know you aid they could be tweaked,) *why* would Natural Origin get an advantage of taking Superjump that early without the prerequisite? Why doesn't it make just as much sense for, say, Tech (using an exoskeleton as a reason,) Science (Super Soldier Serum #89743,) Magic or Mutation to?
That's generally what this discussion comes down to, 90% of the time. Well, that and (again) it's 5 years in where we've had origin mean nothing but what enhancements you could use, having it shift to having an impact like that now... I just can't see as being *good.*
The sort of thing I'd see, frankly:
- Making the origin CONTACTS mean something.
Of course, that means doing a bit more definition on them redside, but have them give extra arcs for your origin. Also, we have unlockables... have your origin unlock the proper contact.
- Enemy groups
Why wouldn't, say, the Council go after your natural whatever, Crey go after Science, the Freakshow start going after tech, CoT against Magic... not quite sure who against Mutant. Just so you have an occasional ambush leading to a mission or some such.
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- Enemy groups
Why wouldn't, say, the Council go after your natural whatever, Crey go after Science, the Freakshow start going after tech, CoT against Magic... not quite sure who against Mutant. Just so you have an occasional ambush leading to a mission or some such.
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That would be the Lost.
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- Enemy groups
Why wouldn't, say, the Council go after your natural whatever, Crey go after Science, the Freakshow start going after tech, CoT against Magic... not quite sure who against Mutant. Just so you have an occasional ambush leading to a mission or some such.
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I like.
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- Enemy groups
Why wouldn't, say, the Council go after your natural whatever, Crey go after Science, the Freakshow start going after tech, CoT against Magic... not quite sure who against Mutant. Just so you have an occasional ambush leading to a mission or some such.
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I like.
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Pretty brilliant idea, actually. I like too!
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- Enemy groups
Why wouldn't, say, the Council go after your natural whatever, Crey go after Science, the Freakshow start going after tech, CoT against Magic... not quite sure who against Mutant. Just so you have an occasional ambush leading to a mission or some such.
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That would be the Lost.
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Eh. They are more science.
Outcasts, for lower levels.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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You're over reacting. A lot.
And also wrong.
Great concept is important, I imagine thats why you picked the powers you picked, not for their effects but for their concept. So you'd pick origin for the same reason and live with the consequences. I really do not understand how this is even an issue it's like you guys are just opposed to new things being added to the game. Maybe you guys should just go play WoW. That way you can have a very clear goal to reach for, and an end game where every character has exactly the same gear or is reaching for the same gear. it might be mroe your style.
[/ QUOTE ]
Despite all the logic and reasoning we give to you, you simply respond with "BUT I WANT IT!!!"
Fine, have it your way. You can view everyone as wrong and you can firmly believe that you're right. You can cling to your idea forever, but it's never going to happen.
Thread over.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're not presenting logic or reason you're presenting a bunch of teenagers who's entire argument is "If I can't have everything I don't want anything at all."