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I understand that you can switch sides in the mirror universe as just because Statesman goes Rogue doesnt mean I want my hero going Rogue hence they allow us to choose/switch sides in this mirror universe.
I dont believe they will allow us to switch sides in the real universe cause you need to have CoH/CoV to play this expansion, imo means a level restriction (could be as low as level 2) which forces you to choose a side in the real universe that can not be changed when in the real universe.
Real Universe = Hero (born)
Mirror Universe = Villain (side switch)
(go from Mirror Universe back to Real Universe) = still a Hero
Other things to consider:
WW/BM - May not be available in mirror universe; which keeps things separated
SG/VG Bases May not function in mirror universe
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I understood the new Praetorian zone to be a facilitator of the switch from hero to villain and vice versa. You travel from the Rogue Isles to the Praetorian zone, make mission choices that change your alignment from red to blue and then you can enter Paragon City to fight alongside other heroes.
The thing that I'm most looking forward to with the new expansion is going to be the ability to start your character out in the Praetorian zone as neutral and see where they wind up based on how you play and the decisions that you make. The only thing that would be better is if the Praetorian zone had some way of recording the generally accepted zone morality based on choices made by all characters in the zone and adjusted the requirements for a transition from one side to the other accordingly.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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Number one, fighting guys weaker than you seems like the exact definition of being a bully to me.
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Most superheroes wind up fighting minions weaker than themselves on a fairly regular basis and most bullies rarely ever deliver on any of their threats. So philosophically speaking any brick\heavy hitter type hero in comic-dom is in effect a bully. They use their overwhelmingly superior physical strength to intimidate others. In fact if you think about it bullying really ties into your definition of a heavy hitter Johnny. They hold back for fear of hurting someone so instead they rely on being physically intimidating and making their opponent back down "Before 'someone' gets hurt." The Thing is a perfect example; he was used to physically intimidating people prior to his appointment with destiny and has continued to bully those around him based solely on the fact that he could turn them into paste with one punch.
Even Superman, the consummate Boy Scout, is no stranger to bullying techniques. He power poses until his assailants run out of bullets and then gives them a look as if to say, Do you really want to see what happens next? The fact that his bullying is done in the name of truth, justice and the American way is really just about the ends justifying the means.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Batman is such a bully. Dude beats up regular thugs like it was a career.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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Batman is such a bully. Dude beats up regular thugs like it was a career.
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Another good example! Though not what you would call a tanker, Batman uses fear as his chief weapon against the scum of Gotham. He doesn't have to deliver on the threat for small time crooks because "Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot".
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
QR (a dev approved pre-script)
All this fuss about brutes and tanks, and the only sideswitching that interests me is playing defenders redside, and corrupters blueside.
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Tanks will replace brutes and MM's. Scrappers will replace brutes.
You'll see a lack of brutes, & silly brutes who think they can tank when the hero side has the real tanks.
All I have to say is QQ & GL brutes. LOL
I giggle when I see a brute jump into a group of bosses on AE and get instantly crushed. lol
They need to pop purples to handle what a Tanker can.
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Case in point. Spent billions on my SS/WP brute. A WP/SS tank with SOs will have better resists, similar defense, similar HP and similar regen.
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And the Tanker does about as much damage as the Brute does when he's Rage-crashed! Which is something he will never, ever make up, no matter how he IOs out.
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You make a valid point with the brute/stalker example and you are correct that simply buffing tanker damage is not the answer. Something needs to be done to make tankers and scrappers as divergent in play style as brutes and scrappers. Vox Populi had a good suggestion. I think taking that a step further and applying the increased debuff/control to any mobs affected by gauntlet would be a step in the right direction. While not increasing damage (accept maybe in the case of Fire Melees DoT) it would move tankers toward more of a group fighter role. Which, IMO, is where they should have been all along.
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Now that's interesting, and easily doable to boot. All you'd need to do for that is apply a status resistance debuff to the target, thus making controls last longer. It does gives some sets more perks than others, though.
For example, compare Axe and Mace. Very similar sets, except all of Axe's attacks have a chance for knockdown while Mace is a mix of knockdown/stun. Knockdown wouldn't be effected by the status resistance debuff (it would cause knockback which has just been removed in most cases) and the stuns would. Mace would be able to benefit while Axe would be left in the cold. Now I'm imagining giving that to Stone Melee... (Fault anyone?)
Still, it's something to think about. (Finally, a fresh idea!)
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I second that notion.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
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Tanks will replace brutes and MM's. Scrappers will replace brutes.
You'll see a lack of brutes, & silly brutes who think they can tank when the hero side has the real tanks.
All I have to say is QQ & GL brutes. LOL
I giggle when I see a brute jump into a group of bosses on AE and get instantly crushed. lol
They need to pop purples to handle what a Tanker can.
[/ QUOTE ]
Case in point. Spent billions on my SS/WP brute. A WP/SS tank with SOs will have better resists, similar defense, similar HP and similar regen.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the Tanker does about as much damage as the Brute does when he's Rage-crashed! Which is something he will never, ever make up, no matter how he IOs out.
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No the tanker will not be close to brute damage, and he should not be. It is just how IOs are currently. It is much easier to slot for durability bonuses like +def +regen +hp compared to +damage.
My point is this. After a massive expense I was able to make a brute about as hard to kill as a tank with SOs.
That same tank slotted with IOs would be damn near impossible to kill without some serious debuffs.
Last point, if you are having issues with the tanker damage, ask for help. There are plenty of people in the tanker forums that would gladly give advise on how to get more damage out of your build.
Post deleted by Moderator 08
+1
IBTL.
One thing some people dont get i see is that Brutes are not red side tanks Mastermind are the dev planed tanks. Brutes are more scrapper like. also stalkers ar kind like blasters for dmg heavy. This arch-types will not be replaced by other types but give more options on game play.
------------------------------------------------------------ Stealth is your ally -------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------- Trust no one ------------------------------------------------------------------
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One thing some people dont get i see is that Brutes are not red side tanks Mastermind are the dev planed tanks. Brutes are more scrapper like. also stalkers ar kind like blasters for dmg heavy. This arch-types will not be replaced by other types but give more options on game play.
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Agreed. The only replacements I can really see happening is in the hybrid population. "Scrankers" will go for brutes, "offenders" will go for corruptors etc...
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
+1 on the idea of gauntlet debuffing effectct and debuff resists. Would give the AT something truly unique and highly desirable without having a balance breaking effect on solo performance.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
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Thematically, I can accept Tankers holding back on the lesser foes; minions, LTs...IF they were able to open up on the Bosses, EBs AVs and GMs.
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Now this idea has merit, actually. That's pretty much how all of the "Comic-Book Tanks" operate.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Thematically, I can accept Tankers holding back on the lesser foes; minions, LTs...IF they were able to open up on the Bosses, EBs AVs and GMs.
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Now this idea has merit, actually. That's pretty much how all of the "Comic-Book Tanks" operate.
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Oh hai.
I agree 100%.
That's pretty much the original idea behind Fury; that Tankers hold back at the begining of a fight and cut loose as it wears on.
And it was the idea behind my Tanker Domination proposal, executed differently of course. You'd save your big hits for the last encounter on a mission.
And I've also suggested Tankers could get a flat damage increase against just Bosses and up. That's quite possible, technically speaking.
I was inspired by Supe's little speech here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJ2Bd41zsw
Which, as you said, is something that could speak to the Tanker's concept.
Many people here shot down the concept(Tankers holding back against everyone but the big guy), and any execution of it suggested by me. And the devs, of course, ignored me and the idea.
I still think is a viable hook for Tankers being able to be heavy hitters, some of the time.
So yeah, it's nothing new.
Glad you like it, though.
.
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Thematically, I can accept Tankers holding back on the lesser foes; minions, LTs...IF they were able to open up on the Bosses, EBs AVs and GMs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now this idea has merit, actually. That's pretty much how all of the "Comic-Book Tanks" operate.
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Oh hai.
I agree 100%.
That's pretty much the original idea behind Fury; that Tankers hold back at the begining of a fight and cut loose as it wears on.
And it was the idea behind my Tanker Domination proposal, executed differently of course. You'd save your big hits for the last encounter on a mission.
And I've also suggested Tankers could get a flat damage increase against just Bosses and up. That's quite possible, technically speaking.
I was inspired by Supe's little speech here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJ2Bd41zsw
Which, as you said, is something that could speak to the Tanker's concept.
Many people here shot down the concept(Tankers holding back against everyone but the big guy), and any execution of it suggested by me. And the devs, of course, ignored me and the idea.
I still think is a viable hook for Tankers being able to be heavy hitters, some of the time.
So yeah, it's nothing new.
Glad you like it, though.
.
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Not surprising, as most don't want to have their tankers to "play" that way.
it's once again down to the "feel" issue. Aka, see the epic argument going on in the I5 dom buffs thread, related to /psi.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Not surprising, as most don't want to have their tankers to "play" that way.
it's once again down to the "feel" issue. Aka, see the epic argument going on in the I5 dom buffs thread, related to /psi.
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If executed the way I proposed, the inherent I suggested wouldn't impact anyone who didn't want to use it ONE BIT. You could drag the icon off your tray and you wouldn't notice a difference between your Tanker then or before. Their playstyle
would remain the same if they wanted it to. Period.
That was one of my goals behind the proposal; not to take anything away from people who liked Tankers as is.
.
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Not surprising, as most don't want to have their tankers to "play" that way.
it's once again down to the "feel" issue. Aka, see the epic argument going on in the I5 dom buffs thread, related to /psi.
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If executed the way I proposed, the inherent I suggested wouldn't impact anyone who didn't want to use it ONE BIT. You could drag the icon off your tray and you wouldn't notice a difference between your Tanker then or before. Their playstyle
would remain the same if they wanted it to. Period.
That was one of my goals behind the proposal; not to take anything away from people who liked Tankers as is.
.
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Except possibly some more of their survivability because of game balance issues caused by those who are using your Tank-omination inherent. The GDN, though prompted by tanker's insane level of survivability at the time, was not applied only to tankers. Game balance dictated that everyone have their defenses reduced.
Also, let's look at how Tank-omination would affect the other archetypes. If Tank-omination goes into the game to "make tankers more like comic book heavy hitters" what do you think the blasters will have to say about not being able to generate their own protective shields just like in the comic books? For that matter why should controllers have to use multiple holds to defeat a mob when their comic book counterparts can easily achieve victory with a single hold? While we're at it why not take knockback protection away from scrappers since most scrapper types get tossed around like rag dolls during battle in the pages of comic books? I don't have an example for defenders but I believe that I have made my point.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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what do you think the blasters will have to say about not being able to generate their own protective shields just like in the comic books?
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"I should really spec into the Force Mastery Blaster epic pool"?
.
Then a tank should spec into Pyre mastery if they want to do more damage?
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
I was inspired by Supe's little speech here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJ2Bd41zsw
Which, as you said, is something that could speak to the Tanker's concept.
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Rousing speech but you might want to use a shortened version of the video clip to make your point. Based on the resultant collateral damage Superman landed two incredibly massive blows before he was convinced that Darkseid was defeated but apparently Darkseid wasn't even phased.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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Then a tank should spec into Pyre mastery if they want to do more damage?
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I didn't want to be the one that said it. I figured Johnny would come to the same conclusion eventually.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
Then a tank should spec into Pyre mastery if they want to do more damage?
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Boo specifically asked for protective shields for Blasters. That's a very narrow concept. Force Mastery is exactly that.
Now, if you want to argue Blasters should get better survivability without resorting to that pool, by all means you're welcome to in the Blaster forum. I won't impede you.
Tankers as a whole don't need fire attacks, nor should they need them in order to fulfill what's missing from them in general that conceptually should be there.
Why should it(being a heavy hitter) be there?
Comic books indicate heroes with powers like the Tanker get are heavy hitters. The official description calls them "a devastating hand to hand combatant". In media based on the CoH universe, like the comics and the novels, Tankers are indeed excellent fighters and heavy hitters. Back Alley Brawler, an admitted Tanker, when refering to his offensive fighting ability, is said to be one of the best in the world.
The precident for Tankers and Tanker-like heroes as heavy hitters is there: In super hero comics, games and movies. In the cannon of the game itself. In the media derrived from the game. The lead designer himself said they should be.
I don't think the Tanker's current even, mediocre damage that's 40% behind the next hardest melee hitter satisfies any of these depictions, descriptions and comparisons.
You can argue they already are heavy hitters, but I'm willing to bet if you posted to the Brute or Scrapper forum saying they are, most people would disagree. If you opened it up to Joe Public on the live servers, I don't think they'd identify Tankers as they are currently as heavy hitters either. Or excellent fighters.
.
I'm ok with tankers having more damage, as long as they are prepared to have their soft caps lowered.
I understand that you can switch sides in the mirror universe as just because Statesman goes Rogue doesnt mean I want my hero going Rogue hence they allow us to choose/switch sides in this mirror universe.
I dont believe they will allow us to switch sides in the real universe cause you need to have CoH/CoV to play this expansion, imo means a level restriction (could be as low as level 2) which forces you to choose a side in the real universe that can not be changed when in the real universe.
Real Universe = Hero (born)
Mirror Universe = Villain (side switch)
(go from Mirror Universe back to Real Universe) = still a Hero
Other things to consider:
WW/BM - May not be available in mirror universe; which keeps things separated
SG/VG Bases May not function in mirror universe