This thread is so funny to me. Johnny Tankers are in no danger of becoming extinct. The only way that would happen is for brutes to get buffed by their allies to be on tanker level. Considering that a large amount of the support ATs dont even take all their ally buffs I dont see this happening. Furthermore the one AT that was in danger of being extinct was dominators but after the discussion that Castle had about the upcoming dom buffs I dont see any AT except maybe EATs getting left out in the cold.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
scrappers and brutes are pretty even dmg wise until the scrapper crits.
really as i play it more i'm hoping to hell they never give scrappers stone melee. it's the highest single target dps set for brutes and it's pretty beastly on tankers even vs. smashing resistant enemies.
i would fear more for dominators of any at. they would be totaly pointless. permadom isnt a cheap thing to get on a 50 dom - assuming you lasted 50 levels and werent plevelled the entire way - and with the lack of any support secondary a dom simply doesnt bring anywhere near as much to a team as a controller - especialy since said controller can pick up a couple of nukes post 40 and play just like a freakin dom - perhaps better with the +dmg from containment.
no. as it is right now there's alot of hybridization between the classes. scrappers and tanks and brutes are pretty similiar. it's however substantiallyi harder for a brute to hit those tank-level resist caps than a tank since they start out with scrapper level defenses.
we will still see most people soloing. we will still see people rolling up mostly willpower (or shield if rich and with a long-term plan). we will still not see all that many masterminds (thre really arent that many masterminds who make it to 50 red side...it's a finesse class and can be extremely frustrating at times for some people)
this could be a good thing. i've been tempted to go back blue side, but i'm so invested red side from the last 3 years now that i cant fathom it. i would love to experience the new hero content that's been released in the last three years...on my brute or mastermind.
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i would fear more for dominators of any at. they would be totaly pointless. permadom isnt a cheap thing to get on a 50 dom
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I think you missed the part where Castle is buffing non-Domination damage to current Domination levels.
Gonna be hilarious when MMs replace Tankers, Scrappers AND Brutes.
And for that matter .... every other AT.
Nah, now that we know Dom damage will be boosted, I'm already building a Dominator that will have capped defenses. He will replace tankers, scrappers, brutes, controllers, corruptors, masterminds, kheledians, stalkers, etc,etc etc!
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Gonna be hilarious when MMs replace Tankers, Scrappers AND Brutes.
And for that matter .... every other AT.
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and the sad part is they can do this...with almost no io sets
a bots/ff can hit the positional soft cap and has something i dont think scrappers/tanks/brutes can get too easily - -regen
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a bots/ff can hit the positional soft cap and has something i dont think scrappers/tanks/brutes can get too easily - -regen
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The problem that such a tankermind has, though, is the near total lack of aggro abilities. Survivability on a team doesn't buy you much when mobs aren't attacking you.
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i would fear more for dominators of any at. they would be totaly pointless. permadom isnt a cheap thing to get on a 50 dom
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I think you missed the part where Castle is buffing non-Domination damage to current Domination levels.
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that only helps doms level faster. does nothing for them come 50 when they can slot for perma dom.
and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.
if your team had a choice between an empathy or kin controller vs. yoru choice of ANY dom combination....yeah. even if you already had a healer you'd take the auras and another forge. even if you already had one kin you'd take a second fulcrum. you know you would.
i will say though that mind/psi doms are great at punching through the retardedly overpowered custom enemies people are making in the MA.
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a bots/ff can hit the positional soft cap and has something i dont think scrappers/tanks/brutes can get too easily - -regen
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The problem that such a tankermind has, though, is the near total lack of aggro abilities. Survivability on a team doesn't buy you much when mobs aren't attacking you.
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that's why they take provoke
may only be 5 enemies, but they are still taunted for 30s or so
and believe me, a bots/ff has the power slots to spare to spend on provoke.
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and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.
[/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where He Said damage buff. They will be getting blaster level damage. Hell their mods will be .95 for range and 1.25 for melee. Thats hella good enough for me.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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that's why they take provoke
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Provoke is not quite up to par with tanker/brute aggro capabilities. Unenhanced, it's an 8.24s taunt duration for masterminds at level 50 (less at lower levels), the duration is affected by level-based resistance (a.k.a. Purple Patch), it requires a to-hit check, and hits a maximum of five foes at a time.
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and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.
[/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where He Said damage buff. They will be getting blaster level damage. Hell their mods will be .95 for range and 1.25 for melee. Thats hella good enough for me.
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it's a nerf to level 50 doms
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat...=0&fpart=54
there's math in the thread behind it.
not a big nerf mind you, but it does make one desire perma-dom less and in fact may no longer need to perma-dom at all.
still, that dom STILL isnt bringing anything to the table that isnt done better by a controller or blaster. in fact, fault or footstomp offer enough soft control for most things that even a controller isnt necessary - unless you couldnt find an empathy or kin defender.
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i would fear more for dominators of any at. they would be totaly pointless. permadom isnt a cheap thing to get on a 50 dom
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I think you missed the part where Castle is buffing non-Domination damage to current Domination levels.
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that only helps doms level faster. does nothing for them come 50 when they can slot for perma dom.
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It allows me to not bother with perma dom and go for other things, like soft capped defense.
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and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.
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Apparently, unless the corruptor has +dmg or -res, the dom will do more damage.
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and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.
[/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where He Said damage buff. They will be getting blaster level damage. Hell their mods will be .95 for range and 1.25 for melee. Thats hella good enough for me.
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it's a nerf to level 50 doms
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat...=0&fpart=54
there's math in the thread behind it.
not a big nerf mind you, but it does make one desire perma-dom less and in fact may no longer need to perma-dom at all.
still, that dom STILL isnt bringing anything to the table that isnt done better by a controller or blaster. in fact, fault or footstomp offer enough soft control for most things that even a controller isnt necessary - unless you couldnt find an empathy or kin defender.
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The higher base damage is a straight up buff.
Dominators will deal more damage post buff than a Dominator under Domination. The only time it is a nerf is when the Dominator is operating with stacked Domination, which is not the norm. (Heck, even perma-Dom is expensive, let alone stacked.) A Dominator using damage buffs (Aim, FE, Soul Drain) or being buffed (Forge, Painbringer, Fulcrum, etc) is better off.
Allow me to demonstrate:
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<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Difference @ lvl 50
Bonesmasher 134.07 185.37 224.31 Assuming 96% increase from Enhancements
Power Bolt 70.85 97.96 103.55 Assuming 96% increase from Enhancements </pre><hr />
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Those numbers assume 96% dmg enhancement and Domination where noted.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> Base
Now Proposed
Bonesmasher 68.4 114.44
Power Bolt 36.15 52.83</pre><hr />
Now for the kicker, a comparison of old damage compared to the new with variable outside +dmg:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
+dmg% BS (now)PB (now) BS (dom2) PB (dom2) BS (prop) PB (prop)
0% 185.36 97.97 236.66 125.08 224.3 103.55
25% 202.46 107 253.76 134.12 252.91 116.75
50% 219.56 116.04 270.86 143.15 281.52 129.96
75% 236.66 125.08 273.6 144.6 310.13 143.17
100% 253.76 134.12 273.6 144.6 338.74 156.38
125% 270.86 143.15 273.6 144.6 367.35 169.58
150% 273.6 144.6 273.6 144.6 395.96 182.79
175% 273.6 144.6 273.6 144.6 424.57 196
200% 273.6 144.6 273.6 144.6 453.18 209.21
225% 273.6 144.6 273.6 144.6 457.76 211.32</pre><hr />
now = Current slotted + Dom
dom2 = Current slotted + Dom stacked
prop = Proposed
I've highlighted when the proposed powers are better off with outside +dmg. With single dom, proposed is always better. At +25% dmg (a small red) proposed is better for melee. At +100% dmg, proposed is always better. Also check out their damage output when they damage cap, much higher.
Fascinating... Maybe this will mean tanks get all the brute power sets and vice versa... but I doubt that will happen, instead I'm sure it will give me a reason to unmothball a few brutes though.
Seeing we're in the tank forum and all.....
I think the AT is going to see a substantial rise in demand. Folks in the forums that bother to read and plan builds can probably fill the roll with scrappers, brutes, MMs, insp whatever. But we are a very tiny miniority. Pugdom does not have the patience for such things and will keep screaming "we need a tank!!1!!11" just like they keep insisting on getting a "healer" whatever that is, despite 5 years of proof that practically any def/con/corr/mm will do just as well.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
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Seeing we're in the tank forum and all.....
I think the AT is going to see a substantial rise in demand. Folks in the forums that bother to read and plan builds can probably fill the roll with scrappers, brutes, MMs, insp whatever. But we are a very tiny miniority. Pugdom does not have the patience for such things and will keep screaming "we need a tank!!1!!11" just like they keep insisting on getting a "healer" whatever that is, despite 5 years of proof that practically any def/con/corr/mm will do just as well.
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too true. 5 minutes after logging into atlas park i see this very thing. 'we could do something if we had a tank...'
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I don't think tankers were singled out, they're just collateral damage.
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Neglect can be a form of abuse. In this case, neglecting the impact side switching will have on Tankers, dismissing it and then steaming ahead anyways.
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But Johnny, if tankers get rare, really rare, because of brute-tanking hero-side, then tankers will get something good to revive 'em.
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Not gonna happen. Defenders have been the least popular blue side AT for how long and they haven't done anything for them yet. If anything, I say Tankers get pushed further into their niche by the devs over this.
I'm betting we'll see a damage reduction and the implemention of an inherent power where Inf, salvage drops and recipes are automitically removed from the Tanker's inventory at regular intervals and evenly distributed among his teammates.
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I'm betting we'll see a damage reduction and the implemention of an inherent power where Inf, salvage drops and recipes are automitically removed from the Tanker's inventory at regular intervals and evenly distributed among his teammates...
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The sad thing is, I can't tell if you're joking with this. Seriously.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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I'm betting we'll see a damage reduction and the implemention of an inherent power where Inf, salvage drops and recipes are automitically removed from the Tanker's inventory at regular intervals and evenly distributed among his teammates...
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The sad thing is, I can't tell if you're joking with this. Seriously.
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I'm dead serious. That fits 100% with the apparent vision the devs have for Tankers and their role/concept.
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if your team had a choice between an empathy or kin controller vs. yoru choice of ANY dom combination....yeah. even if you already had a healer you'd take the auras and another forge. even if you already had one kin you'd take a second fulcrum. you know you would.
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At the risk of enabling another tanks are crap thread, having a 50 fire/psi dom myself, teams always prefer it when I give them a choice among my other 50's (which includes a kin, fire/rad, 1 corr, 1 mm, s/s & ss/el brutes & of course tanks & scraprs).
Because you don't need capped Def & buff auras if everything is choking, burning and disappearing in two clicks.
But Tanks play differently, really more superhero-like imo. When I get on one of my tanks it feels like you're playing Superman, more so then the other AT's, especially minus exterior buffs, and that's why (according to dev data mining) they're more popular then you may expect, as is.
ymwv
--------------------
Tanker Fun
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and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.
[/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where He Said damage buff. They will be getting blaster level damage. Hell their mods will be .95 for range and 1.25 for melee. Thats hella good enough for me.
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it's a nerf to level 50 doms
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat...=0&fpart=54
there's math in the thread behind it.
not a big nerf mind you, but it does make one desire perma-dom less and in fact may no longer need to perma-dom at all.
still, that dom STILL isnt bringing anything to the table that isnt done better by a controller or blaster. in fact, fault or footstomp offer enough soft control for most things that even a controller isnt necessary - unless you couldnt find an empathy or kin defender.
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a dominator 'comparative nerf'. right.
You know, I said the exact same thing about /ea, /wp and /ragen stalkers when the nimrods increased the base HP without increasing the HP cap... those three sets got massively 'comparatively' nerfed.
The same people griping about the dominator changes are the ones that were saying that what stalkers got wasn't a comparative nerf to some sets. To hell with them.
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tanks are crap
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You said it, I didn't.
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and that's why (according to dev data mining)
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I don't trust anything coming from these devs. Period.
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tanks are crap
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You said it, I didn't.
I trust these devs. Period.
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I don't know. By level 40+ you have 20 insps slots, inspirations drop often, you can combine everything into purples. I've been on missions where I was taking the alpha (on a scrapper) all the time and had to pop purples to survive, and I don't remember running out that often. It certainly wouldn't happen at all if I bothered to buy insps, something I hardly do.
In my opinion, 12.5% def is also a lot more than 25% dam. The latter, assuming 95% damage slotting in powers and no procs or other damage buffs for the sake of simplicity, will be a ~12.5% total damage boost. Best case scenario (no damage slotting in powers, no procs, no damage buffs), it's a 25% damage boost. On the other hand, a luck insp can multiply your mitigation by 250% if you're jumping from 32.5 to the softcap.
With insps, it seems much easier to increase defense than damage output, to me.
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First, I agree, it's easier to boost def rather than damage. I won't argue the point, but it's not an unnoticeable boost, either. I mostly pointed that out because JB always points to purples for getting squishier ATs through trouble spots, but found rages to be an unacceptable solution.
As for lucks... I think it's a stretch to assume that Scrappers always have enough. How big is the team? How fast does the team kill (slower killing = less insp drops)? What is your con to the rest of the group (are you on the high or low side)? Are we talking SOs or IOs? I find it hard to believe that the average scrapper would be able to keep 1-2 up every minute in a mission. Specific team makeups / players? Sure. They may circumvent the need completely.