Hall of Fame is not realistically attainable
By
Amberyl,
Posted on: 2009-04-09 21:10 in Mission Architect
"Mathematically feasible" and "going to happen" are two different stories.
Dec out.
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Ye Gads! Why do I keep reading these whiney "my sooper arc can't get an award cause of all u meanies!" threads.... I see em, I know what they are, and I just read em anyway! Stupid stupid. 
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To repeat for the third freaking time -- I am not whining.
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Word.
Twoflower has an arc in Dev's Choice (and it's a truly great arc). If anything, he among all of us has the best chance at HoF status eventually. But there are some people on the boards who view every mention of a problem as "whining." Ah well. Nature of the intrawebs, I guess.
But my understanding of HoF is this: You get it after a certain number of ratings that are 4 or 5 stars. It's not an average. I remember reading this somewhare, but my search-fu is weak and pathetic. It would be nice (hint hint) for a dev to clarify this for us.
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"Mathematically feasible" and "going to happen" are two different stories.
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Okay, let me run the numbers then.
Assume 30% of all people playing the mission architect are "insane" - they play random arcs and give them random ratings. The average rating from an insane person is 2.5 stars.
If 70% of the other people play an arc and rate it 5 stars, the arc will have an aggregate rating of (30% * 2.5) + (70% * 5), or 4.25.
If "anything over 4" is sufficient for Dev's Choice, this is fine. If "4.5 and up" is sufficient, it isn't.
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True, although 30% of the raters being "insane" sounds ridiculously high to me. Slightly under a third? One out of three? I'm not buying that for a second.
But...we shall see what we shall see, I suppose. Idle speculation, at this point (OK, you did the math, so we won't call it "idle").
Dec out.
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That being said, I was also told that only a few arcs were carried over as a starter... so players would be given a range of different things available. Now, I'm far from knowing the criteria, but maybe some of the arcs given Dev's Choice on test were too similar in some way to another arc? Maybe they didn't want people to play the same sort of mission and think "Well, if that's all that's available, what's the point of using the system? I mean, all of these DC arcs are rescues filled with AV after AV, why flood the system with the same mission over and over?"
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Or they didn't want the live side playerbase going WTF when they saw some people having multiple DCs on the day of launch?
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Congratulations! You earned the Hall of Famer badge.
Hall of Famer has been selected as new title.
You already have 3 published arcs and cannot publish any more.
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This probably speaks for itself, but am I missing something here? Is something supposed to happen to the arc now? Am I really supposed to have another slot?
There's no icon next to the arc, or anything.
Okay, apparently arcs that enter the Hall of Fame can lose that rating due to down-votes (I'm now back in the Hall of Fame, but probably not for long). I have the extra publishing slot so long as the arc remains in the Hall of Fame, but once it's voted out, I lose the extra slot.
Edit: And I can confirm that "anything over 4" is definitely not the case.
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"Mathematically feasible" and "going to happen" are two different stories.
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Okay, let me run the numbers then.
Assume 30% of all people playing the mission architect are "insane" - they play random arcs and give them random ratings. The average rating from an insane person is 2.5 stars.
If 70% of the other people play an arc and rate it 5 stars, the arc will have an aggregate rating of (30% * 2.5) + (70% * 5), or 4.25.
If "anything over 4" is sufficient for Dev's Choice, this is fine. If "4.5 and up" is sufficient, it isn't.
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Number will be higher than 2.5 for average actually. I would normally say 3, but since it is technically possible to vote a 0, however, it's not as common or easy to do as the other votes, I'd prolly put the average at 2.75 to account for that.
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Okay, apparently arcs that enter the Hall of Fame can lose that rating due to down-votes (I'm now back in the Hall of Fame, but probably not for long). I have the extra publishing slot so long as the arc remains in the Hall of Fame, but once it's voted out, I lose the extra slot.
Edit: And I can confirm that "anything over 4" is definitely not the case.
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Wait you're losing you're HoF status after attaining it due to additional votes? Are we sure this isn't a bug? I would bug that..something seems off about having a 4th slot, that then vanishes after you rightfully earned it..really bug it and see what happens.
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Wait you're losing you're HoF status after attaining it due to additional votes?
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That is right.
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Are we sure this isn't a bug? I would bug that..something seems off about having a 4th slot, that then vanishes after you rightfully earned it..really bug it and see what happens.
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The Hall of Fame status being "losable" is apparently intentional (I sent a PM to pohsyb). The fourth slot disappearing along with it might not be intentional, however (he didn't seem entirely certain). I'm not sure I really like this implementation of the Hall of Fame, because just having an arc on page 1 is enough to prompt a slew of, "Somebody has voted for 'arcname,'" so I've no doubt having the Hall of Fame star will make it even worse.
Perhaps a tab for "historic Hall of Fame arcs" might be a nice compromise. It would list those arcs that ever had a Hall of Fame rating, at any point in time.
Glad to hear we've actually got someone who made HOF... un-glad to hear it's got problems attached with it.
Being able to lose your rating combined with what's clearly a 4.5+ average, rather than 4.01+, means that if you can get it you can lose it just as quickly and lose the slot that comes with it.
Thanks for the hard data, itsMu. At least we've got some player confirmation of how it works, in lieu of a dev confirming things.
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I read the first few posts and rushed to the end to say "I know someone who has a HoF arc!" but then you're already posting here and I lost my thunder.
The OP is obviously still wrong, though.
"It's attainable, but will be lost almost immediately (because people are jerks) along with the slot" is better? In either a semantic/accuracy or practical sense?
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The OP is obviously still wrong, though.
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Considering I'm talking about an outcome I don't desire, I have no objections to being wrong. But there's still some issues here to iron out, considering it keeps wobbling between HOF and non-HOF due to the extreme rating requirement.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
Hall of Fame being loseable is ludicrous.
If you arc is good enough to be there it should lock as Hall of Fame, period. Heck, I've had trouble getting 100 ratings needed for the Accolade, I can't imagine getting 1,000 4-5 ratings (though maybe my historical arc will do that, who knows...).
They didn't take the Stones' HoF status when people started saying they sucked etc...no reason for this to be different, especially with the extra slot involved!
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Some times I forget how terrible these forums are for cheerleading and then I post for the first time in months and you all jump out of the woodwork.
The OP's point has been proven incorrect in that we have a HoFer in less than a week. Is it working as well as we'd like? No, but that doesn't make the OP suddenly correct.
The lesson of the CoH forums? It's all right to [censored], but don't [censored] about the bitchers or you'll be [censored] at.
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Congratulations! You earned the Hall of Famer badge.
Hall of Famer has been selected as new title.
You already have 3 published arcs and cannot publish any more.
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This probably speaks for itself, but am I missing something here? Is something supposed to happen to the arc now? Am I really supposed to have another slot?
There's no icon next to the arc, or anything.
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A big, big gratz on that! wow, first hall of fame!
Gratz gratz grazt!
Lucy Greenleaf
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Hall of Fame being loseable is ludicrous!
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Yeppers.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Hall of Fame being loseable is ludicrous!
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This is bizarre to even contemplate. If your slot counts fluctuate like this you could easily end up with more arcs then you are allowed to have, requiring you to unpublish multiple ones to put up a single new one...
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Hall of Fame being loseable is ludicrous!
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This is bizarre to even contemplate. If your slot counts fluctuate like this you could easily end up with more arcs then you are allowed to have, requiring you to unpublish multiple ones to put up a single new one...
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Which is why I suspect it's not intentional function.
Possible consideration/suggestion, require a higher score average to achieve HoF than to maintain it, to help keep 'border' items from jumping back and forth so much.
Let's Dance!
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Some times I forget how terrible these forums are for cheerleading and then I post for the first time in months and you all jump out of the woodwork.
The OP's point has been proven incorrect in that we have a HoFer in less than a week. Is it working as well as we'd like? No, but that doesn't make the OP suddenly correct.
The lesson of the CoH forums? It's all right to [censored], but don't [censored] about the bitchers or you'll be [censored] at.
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The OP has only been proven incorrect if the game only has 100 players. How many HoF entries are there right now?
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Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
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Some times I forget how terrible these forums are for cheerleading and then I post for the first time in months and you all jump out of the woodwork.
The OP's point has been proven incorrect in that we have a HoFer in less than a week. Is it working as well as we'd like? No, but that doesn't make the OP suddenly correct.
The lesson of the CoH forums? It's all right to [censored], but don't [censored] about the bitchers or you'll be [censored] at.
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The OP has only been proven incorrect if the game only has 100 players. How many HoF entries are there right now?
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Oh, please.
The title says: "Hall of Fame is not realistically attainable," right?
Well, we have one as of this morning. It was attained within the first week. It was attained within the first 6 days. It was attained within the first 140 or so hours.
If things continue at the same established pace, then the first month should have 4, the first quarter should have 12, the first year should have 48.
It's meant to be hard to get. I certainly don't expect to ever see any of mine get there. That said, one in the first week does not equal the "Hall of Fame . . . not [being] realistically attainable."
Stop cheerleading. The guy was wrong in his main point. You saying "NUH UH!" doesn't change that.
I repeat myself -- again -- I WANT to be wrong. Obviously I will not be cheering an HOF system that's nearly impossible to attain.
However, aspects of the issue still remain. 4.5 is a very flux-unfriendly rating, as we've seen with the ONE arc that's made it wobbling on and off. The mechanics of it may still need adjusting. I still feel that 4.01 is more realistic AND a good quality indicator, especially given the sheer amount of ratings required and the flux factor.
Or would you prefer I say "Oh no, I am wrong, you are right, you are so awesome, I should crawl under a rock and die?" I'll say that if it makes you happy, I suppose.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
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Oh, please.
The title says: "Hall of Fame is not realistically attainable," right?
Well, we have one as of this morning. It was attained within the first week. It was attained within the first 6 days. It was attained within the first 140 or so hours.
If things continue at the same established pace, then the first month should have 4, the first quarter should have 12, the first year should have 48.
It's meant to be hard to get. I certainly don't expect to ever see any of mine get there. That said, one in the first week does not equal the "Hall of Fame . . . not [being] realistically attainable."
Stop cheerleading. The guy was wrong in his main point. You saying "NUH UH!" doesn't change that.
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If my single solitary post on this thread is cheerleading to you then I really hate to see what your definition of "moderate support of a theory" is.
I asked a question. You didn't answer it. How many HoF arcs are up right now? 1 in a week? Please, I've been playing this game long enough to know that THAT small of a number is microscopic. How quickly did we have a level capped hero at game launch? How 'bout a villain? How quickly did we get a level 50 VEAT? The only one of those that took longer than a week was the first, and that's only because nobody yet knew how to game the system. MArc gaming has been pretty obvious since the get-go.
Now, once we know how many HoF arcs are up, how many are remaining HoF in anything resembling a stable manner? If they are bouncing on and off the list like the one mentioned in this thread, that is not a realistically attainable goal. That's more of a realistically teaseable goal.
Kung Ru - 50++ MA/Regen Scrapper
Kalleesta - 50 Necro/Dark MM
Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
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Ye Gads! Why do I keep reading these whiney "my sooper arc can't get an award cause of all u meanies!" threads.... I see em, I know what they are, and I just read em anyway! Stupid stupid.
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To repeat for the third freaking time -- I am not whining. I'm pondering the logic of the way the ratings system is set up, because a 4.5+ is not realistically attainable. (Hey, it's the title of the thread! Wow!)
Would I enjoy more slots? of course. Is that the sole reason I posted? No. My concern is that the current system is flawed and I wanted to see what the range of opinions were about it. That is all.
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I was told, "There will be no limits placed on the amount of Dev's Choice a person can earn. Why would we stop anyone from making the game better?"
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Okay, good to know. My impression from my own dev interactions was that they were shying away from multiple-DC due to all the backlash -- if you talked directly to a dev and got a clarification, though, that renders some of my point moot. I don't mind being wrong.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!