Hall of Fame is not realistically attainable
By
Amberyl,
Posted on: 2009-04-09 21:10 in Mission Architect
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Lavitae posted something earlier in this thread that I find extremely hard to believe, and I'm wondering if Lavitae was joking or not about being able to BUY more slots to make more MArc's with! Is that even possible to do, or was Lavitae really joking around with us?
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Not currently possible.
Will it happen in the future? It might. We can buy character slots right now and buy respecs, so why not buy story slots? I plan to buy the maximum available if they do this.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
A few people might find this as amusing as I do:
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You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
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You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 20 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
[Tell] -->REMOVED: Oh my, you've just put me back in to the Hall of Fame, so I thank you!
[SuperGroup] Miracles: back in hof
[SuperGroup] REMOVED: tell us when you get your first '1'
Someone voted on 'arcname'.
[SuperGroup] Miracles: 1
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Cleaned up for presentation, but factually accurate.
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A few people might find this as amusing as I do:
[ QUOTE ]
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 20 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 20 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
You have earned 25 tickets from a storyarc. Click Here or visit an architect vendor to claim them.
[Tell] -->REMOVED: Oh my, you've just put me back in to the Hall of Fame, so I thank you!
[SuperGroup] Miracles: back in hof
[SuperGroup] REMOVED: tell us when you get your first '1'
Someone voted on 'arcname'.
[SuperGroup] Miracles: 1
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Cleaned up for presentation, but factually accurate.
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http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3203/ratingsystem.gif
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http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3203/ratingsystem.gif
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;-)
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There is *no* "better way" of searching for missions that allows players to publish without limit, because the problem (at least the one I'm referencing here) has nothing to do with being unable to find something you have a specific criteria to find. The issue is more one of being able to effectively browse.
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You're right that browsing is now difficult because there is so much stuff in there, and that's what I was trying to say, not search for a specific arc, but search for arcs that meet my needs, i.e. browse.
Let me restructure your suggestion a bit:
<ul type="square">[*] Add a new possible flag to published arcs: "advertised".[*] Players may flag a subset of their published arcs with this flag.[*] The arc browser by default hides all arcs without this flag. Although it can show all arcs if you want.[*] Players may publish more arcs up to 1 meg space maximum.[*] Initially players may advertise just one arc. If an arc gets 3 stars average 50 votes, they can advertise two. If two arcs get this they can advertise 3. If an arc gets 4 stars average 1000 votes they can advertise four.[/list]
I would support this.
I'd quite like to see additional tabs for, "Highest Rated Today," "Highest Rated This Week," and "Highest Rated This Month." It would go a little way towards aiding visibility, and alleviating the problem of having every arc in a single, ungainly list.
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Uh, no. That's in fact the opposite of my point.
You might get lucky and have your arc be above 4.5 at 1000 votes. (expected value 3 variance 2, 300 samples, not outside the realm of possibility.) Or there might be a Markov Chain model where someone can get a temporarily higher sane:insane ratio than 70:30. But in the end it regresses to the mean, which is 4.4 and out of the Hall of Fame.
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Which is where it should be, if it's true value was 4.4, the problem with flucation around that value is a different issue and leads to volatility yes.
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Well, this is the problem. The playerbase will always be 30% insane. There's no way to change that. If you arc gets absolutely 100% 5-star ratings from the 70% of the playerbase that is sane, your arc will regress to 4.4. There is no way to sustain a higher rating.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
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90% of all statistics are made up. 
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This is true. However, Its hard not to think something is odd when your arc gets nothing but 4 and 5 star ratings all the way to the front page.
and then the next 3 ratings are 3's and a 0-2
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90% of all statistics are made up.
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This is true. However, Its hard not to think something is odd when your arc gets nothing but 4 and 5 star ratings all the way to the front page.
and then the next 3 ratings are 3's and a 0-2
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It's not insanity that causes this, however, but selfish rationalism that is a consequence of rewarding people for getting their arcs played and rated.
It's quite obvious really-- there are several rewards attached to getting people to play your arcs-- badges, tickets, and the possibility of HoF. What is one of the best ways to get people to play your arcs? Get on the front page. But getting lots of 5 star ratings isn't enough to do this, because there are pages upon pages of 5 star arcs. So, how do you get on the front page?
Get everyone else off of it.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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It's quite obvious really-- there are several rewards attached to getting people to play your arcs-- badges, tickets, and the possibility of HoF. What is one of the best ways to get people to play your arcs? Get on the front page. But getting lots of 5 star ratings isn't enough to do this, because there are pages upon pages of 5 star arcs. So, how do you get on the front page?
Get everyone else off of it.
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Was it someone in this thread who suggested a rating system where you can either choose to "recommend" a mission or not? I think that would be a vastly preferable system to what we have now. It's generally just a matter of time until an arc gets on the front page and is then hit with a 1 vote that sends it to page 258. It seems to encourage hostility.
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Here's a tip, make those spots count, and have fun with it.
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THIS.
If my random sampling of arcs played and created is any indication, folks creating quality arcs are in the minority. An increase in the number of slots available would just flood the system with EVEN MORE "complete trash" arcs, and reduce the incentive to improve the lousy arcs that have been created.
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I would love to have my arc well liked just like anyone else. But I'm trying to remember that this is the coolest thing ever introduced into this game. Standing away from myself, it would seem pretty silly to complain that I "only" get to make 3 story arcs. And maybe the "stars" aren't really important other than to my self esteem. Maybe the truth is that I can have unlimited arcs. I shouldn't be that concerned about unpublishing an arc and putting another one in its place. I probably shouldn't worry about losing those 6 ratings.
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THIS
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Hall of Fame being loseable is ludicrous.
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Actually, it's not, in my opinion. Based on what others have said regarding "paying for 5-star reviews" and friends providing high-rankings regardless of the mission quality, it makes perfect sense that an arc rating can decline to a point where it's no longer worthy of the HoF. Add to that the fact that HoF arcs can still be edited, allowing someone to dramatically reduce the quality of an arc. There's no reason HoF should be permanent, imo.
Now, please play my mission "Free Terp & Friends" and one-star me simply because I agree that HoF should not be permanent. Thank you! Terp 
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Based on what others have said regarding "paying for 5-star reviews" and friends providing high-rankings regardless of the mission quality
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Maybe if we had a voting system that didn't favor low-voters over high, people wouldn't feel a need to resort to these methods as much (and how many of the 1000+ votes you need these methods could really generate is pretty questionable anyway). In the HoF race it takes *7* 5s to cancel out a single 1 vote, and *9* to cancel a 0 vote. Most real world voting systems wouldn't function with a design in which it only takes 10-12.5% of the voters to totally shut down the process if they so choose. This is especially true in a community like the internet which has so many people who like spoiling things for fun that we had to develop special terms for them.
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Right. I've had Hall of Fame back for the last few days, so I was able to make another arc (a fourth) and put it up to see what would happen.
It went up. It stayed up.
Then I lost Hall of Fame.
It is still up, but I cannot edit it. Which is not great, because it has a couple of text errors I would like to fix.
Anyway, for those wondering, this is how the exciting fourth slot works (i.e., poorly).
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It is still up, but I cannot edit it. Which is not great, because it has a couple of text errors I would like to fix.
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MA usability fail.
At this point, I kinda don't WANT Hall of Fame. If it's this volatile and it could lock me out of editing my own arcs (not even HOF ones, but just other arcs I publish!) I'd rather wait for whatever vetreward / microtrans / craftable slots the devs inevitably add. They'd be a LOT safer to use.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
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Right. I've had Hall of Fame back for the last few days, so I was able to make another arc (a fourth) and put it up to see what would happen.
It went up. It stayed up.
Then I lost Hall of Fame.
It is still up, but I cannot edit it. Which is not great, because it has a couple of text errors I would like to fix.
Anyway, for those wondering, this is how the exciting fourth slot works (i.e., poorly).
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Ugh. That would drive me nuts, being unable to edit for typos.
Having HoF should permanently unlock a 4th slot, but that arc ID should be flagged to not trigger the unlock in the future. IN that way a player can have no HoF arcs and an infinite number of unlocked slots theoretically but it prevents punishing players for making new arcs, when HoF is supposed to encourage players to make new arcs.
Also everyone should play my arcs and rate them high so I can have HoF too
So it seems that both HoF and DC were implemented... poorly.
*headdesk*
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Right. I've had Hall of Fame back for the last few days, so I was able to make another arc (a fourth) and put it up to see what would happen.
It went up. It stayed up.
Then I lost Hall of Fame.
It is still up, but I cannot edit it. Which is not great, because it has a couple of text errors I would like to fix.
Anyway, for those wondering, this is how the exciting fourth slot works (i.e., poorly).
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Before crying DOOOOOOOM!, this is the same problem we originally had in Beta where you couldn't edit an arc if you had 3 published. That was a bug. And that got fixed.
You are now encountering another form of that bug. Don't assume that this is working as intended.
I forget whether it was pohsyb or Posi that said it, but if you get a HoF, you get the rewards of the HoF and if later votes undo the HoF you don't lose the HoF badge or your extra slot. So, you should have 4 slots and all of them editable.
If they're not editable, that's a bug. Bug it.
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I forget whether it was pohsyb or Posi that said it, but if you get a HoF, you get the rewards of the HoF and if later votes undo the HoF you don't lose the HoF badge or your extra slot.
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You only keep the badge. The slot is currently tied to the Hall of Fame status of the arc. This is why I cannot edit, because to do so requires a republish, and a republish performs a publishing check for free slots, which I no longer have.
I have already told pohsyb.
To make it clear, again, I was posting the details for people who wanted to know how it was working right now, not how it's supposed to be working. I believe people were interested in whether arcs would get deleted or corrupted if the slot they were using disappeared. They don't, they just can't be republished.
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So it seems that both HoF and DC were implemented... poorly.
*headdesk*
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...and this surprises you why, exactly...?
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Lavitae posted something earlier in this thread that I find extremely hard to believe, and I'm wondering if Lavitae was joking or not about being able to BUY more slots to make more MArc's with! Is that even possible to do, or was Lavitae really joking around with us?
Try my 3 MArcs: I.D.#67166:Protect the Artifacts!! I.D.#97724:Level-Up Time. I.D.#243803:Witch War! Salem vs. Croatoa!