[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone point out a pet/pseudo-pet class that is benefiting from this change a lot?
...
keep in mind I DO spend a lot of time IO'ing and would like the toon to improve considerable like all the other archtypes get to enjoy. Or is it a matter of that optional system put in place to add value not applying to pet classes anymore?
...
Any pet/pseodo-pet heavy toon you guys can suggest? or should I just roll a ss/wp brute or an sr scrapper and be done with it?
[/ QUOTE ]
While I cannot think of any pet-using powerset combination that will actually benefit from this change given your stated level of bind usage and tactical skills, I can suggest a few that are essentially unaffected. I am admittedly IO-crazy (every one of my characters gets Set IO'd at L32 at the latest) and have found these to feel powerful and/or survivable:
Earth|Fire|Ice/FF Controller (IO'd to near softcap defense)
Plant/FF|Kin|Rad Controller (IO'd for recharge and/or defense)
Illusion/Rad Controller (IO'd for recharge, mostly...the RIP IO sets will hopefully work now)
Robots/Dark Mastermind (IO'd for recharge and/or defense)
I am also trying a Necro/FF MM at the moment (only level 10) which seems promising... Thugs/Dark and Thugs/FF are likely good ones to try as well. I do recommend diversifying into willpower brutes and scrappers, you can really have fun powering them up with IOs.
Hopefully you find some combinations that you like...I enjoyed my IO'd, hastened stormies - especially Ill/Storm. I will probably still play them, but less often; my LStorm button (Ctrl-4) won't be quite the Awesome Button anymore. If Freezing Rain ever gets the "unintended" treament then I'll be saving money on server slot fees...
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Thanks for continuing to post. I know I would have given up a long time ago.
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And I would have banned half the board.
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Thanks for continuing to post. I know I would have given up a long time ago.
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And I would have banned half the board.
[/ QUOTE ]
and I would slide the duties onto a community rep who is hired and trained to not only handle unruly forumites, but post constructively in the best interest of the developer team. Thus freeing up very limited resources to do their specific specialty to the best of their ability rather than spreading them thin.
but you can't keep everyone happy and iirc the last rep was left to burn by the dev team...
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Cool, so the devs are willing to incorporate unintended features into the game.
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Haha, no. The floodgates were opened and there was nothing the developers could do but instigate a server wide rollback which would have pissed off too many of their paying customers even for them. Being forced to do something isnt giving.
[/ QUOTE ]How about a more recent example?
From the now-deleted thread "Unenhanceable recharge" makes me nervous, in conversation about Mind Link:
Castle:[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mind Link for Night Widows.
[/ QUOTE ]Mink Link's recharge is enhanceable.
[/ QUOTE ]Mind Link doesn't accept Recharge Enhancements. It does accept IO's and HO's which can increase the powers recharge rate.
I have no plans on changing that, at this time.
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Castle:[ QUOTE ]
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Castle:[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Via Set Bonuses only then.
[/ QUOTE ]No. If an enhancement is a dual, or tri value enhancement like, say, Membrane Exposure, you could slot it into Mind Link and it would not only enhance the Defense, it would reduce the recharge time, too.
[/ QUOTE ]What other powers are subject to this rule? I've been slotting IOs based on the "Basic" IO/SO they can slot. I figured if it couldn't accept than kind of enhancement it was just be wasted of half of an IO. Considering how expensive/time consuming it can be to buy/make the IO, that factors into how I want the character to be specced out.
[/ QUOTE ]It's not a "rule" -- this is an exception, and an experimental one at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Also, from this very thread...
Castle:[ QUOTE ]
Jibikao:[ QUOTE ]
If Pet's AI with -recharge causes major lag problem, then it should definitely be fixed.
[/ QUOTE ]You misunderstand: The Up to 50% increase wasn't pet powers. It was EVERY power, from every entity in the game -- it would require sandwiching a new check between calculating all Attribute alterations and applying those alterations in the powers system in general. So every single power in the game just because more CPU intensive, reducing the number of powers that can be processed at any given time. Things like the Zombie Apocalypse or Rikti Invasion would be horrendously affected. Hammi raids might need to be redone again.
That simply isn't a viable solution, despite it being the proper 'code' solution. Oh, it would also eliminate the ability for players to increase the recharge time of powers like Mind Link which don't normally accept recharge enhancements via Hammi-O's or Set IOs (Hasten and Speed Boost would still work, though.)
[/ QUOTE ]
This "experimental exception" for Mind Link (which still exists, and also happens to apply to Vengeance) is brought about by the "bug" of multi-aspect enhancements enhancing everything.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
ML will be changed, it is just a matter of time
[ QUOTE ]
ML will be changed, it is just a matter of time
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, at this point it should be, if only to normalize the game. Why would ML be an exception? Either that power can have increased recharge or it cant. Sneaking in recharge via Set IO has been judged a big NO NO when it comes to subpar pets. Why would it be any different when it comes to a power belonging to an AT which is certainly not underperforming?
What is making sense now anyway? Crappy Gun Drone gets shafted while overpowering Mind Link remains an exception? Way to go...
It would make so much more sense if we simply were allowed to slot any power with any kind of enhancement. We spend slots on these powers to make them better ( to enhance them literally ) and when we find creative ways to boost ourselve, we get the nerfbat. Taunt powers not accepting taunt enh.. Powers that are made unhenceable... Powers that cant recharge quicker... Always more exceptions being added... And now, your Slow powers cant even slow enemy pets. Great. That's perfect!
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
<QR>
Awwwww, c'mon. No one wants to show off their knowledge and tell me what buffs Voltaic Sentinel inherits?
[ QUOTE ]
It would make so much more sense if we simply were allowed to slot any power with any kind of enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it actually wouldn't. Some powers would see no benefit from certain enhancements even if you could slot it. What do you imagine an end mod enhancements would do to improve Gun Drone? Oh wait...nothing!
Now I have jumped on the devs myself when they have done things that I don't agree with. Repeatedly.
I am honestly having trouble though, with the 'huge number' of people who suddenly find that -recharge was the only thing making their pets worth a damn.
If pets NEED that type of boost to be effective, then there is something wrong with the pet...period. If Gun Drone is 'useless' without a -recharge to its attack and LS is laughable without a -recharge to its attack and VS is also similarly useless, then these things need a buff. Especially since that -recharge buff was a side effect of something introduced to the game that wasn't initially meant to happen.
When someone comes and posts about how they are shelving all their storm toons because suddenly, they are broken and worthless, its silly.
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It would make so much more sense if we simply were allowed to slot any power with any kind of enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it actually wouldn't. Some powers would see no benefit from certain enhancements even if you could slot it. What do you imagine an end mod enhancements would do to improve Gun Drone? Oh wait...nothing!
Now I have jumped on the devs myself when they have done things that I don't agree with. Repeatedly.
I am honestly having trouble though, with the 'huge number' of people who suddenly find that -recharge was the only thing making their pets worth a damn.
If pets NEED that type of boost to be effective, then there is something wrong with the pet...period. If Gun Drone is 'useless' without a -recharge to its attack and LS is laughable without a -recharge to its attack and VS is also similarly useless, then these things need a buff. Especially since that -recharge buff was a side effect of something introduced to the game that wasn't initially meant to happen.
When someone comes and posts about how they are shelving all their storm toons because suddenly, they are broken and worthless, its silly.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is really silly is that a tier 9 power is totally subpar to others when it is not properly enhanced, including -recharge among others.
While at the same time some other powers that are right out of the box awesome ( like MindLink ) can still get even better because they keep their "sneak -recharge IO slotting" untouched.
Silly indeed.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
[ QUOTE ]
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It would make so much more sense if we simply were allowed to slot any power with any kind of enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it actually wouldn't. Some powers would see no benefit from certain enhancements even if you could slot it. What do you imagine an end mod enhancements would do to improve Gun Drone? Oh wait...nothing!
Now I have jumped on the devs myself when they have done things that I don't agree with. Repeatedly.
I am honestly having trouble though, with the 'huge number' of people who suddenly find that -recharge was the only thing making their pets worth a damn.
If pets NEED that type of boost to be effective, then there is something wrong with the pet...period. If Gun Drone is 'useless' without a -recharge to its attack and LS is laughable without a -recharge to its attack and VS is also similarly useless, then these things need a buff. Especially since that -recharge buff was a side effect of something introduced to the game that wasn't initially meant to happen.
When someone comes and posts about how they are shelving all their storm toons because suddenly, they are broken and worthless, its silly.
[/ QUOTE ]I dont think thats the case. People have always known these powers suck, its just that with IOs it made them suck alot less, enough to the point where they could be added to a build. I still think in the case of the 3 powers hardest hit by this change, the datamining info on this is just wrong. I cant see the harm in the sneaking of the recharge on those powers. Yeah I know they are balanced around SOs but at the sametime by having players use this work around that saves the devs some actual coding time to actually rebalance the power. We all know those 3 powers wont be getting a buff anytime soon, probably never. I know for me that pretty much means I wont be playing any toons that have those 3 powers till this gets addressed in a proper way instead of this half [censored] fix.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
Awwwww, c'mon. No one wants to show off their knowledge and tell me what buffs Voltaic Sentinel inherits?
[/ QUOTE ]
VS should still inherit damage buffs. Can't think what else could be relevant to it.
It seems to me Mind link and vengeance are a different in that recharge reduction gotten into them via IO's is only working in one way; to reduce the recharge of the power, the same as SOs work in the pet summons.
It seems obvious the recharge IO's weren't working as intended when recharge enhancement from SO's and (I think) basic IO's never carried over.
This fix still makes me sad because it closes a door on some possibilities. Intended or not, it had people working on projects to make toons with Storm, gun drone, elec blast, traps, whatever, lategame IO uber and now they wont. 
[ QUOTE ]
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It would make so much more sense if we simply were allowed to slot any power with any kind of enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it actually wouldn't. Some powers would see no benefit from certain enhancements even if you could slot it. What do you imagine an end mod enhancements would do to improve Gun Drone? Oh wait...nothing!
Now I have jumped on the devs myself when they have done things that I don't agree with. Repeatedly.
I am honestly having trouble though, with the 'huge number' of people who suddenly find that -recharge was the only thing making their pets worth a damn.
If pets NEED that type of boost to be effective, then there is something wrong with the pet...period. If Gun Drone is 'useless' without a -recharge to its attack and LS is laughable without a -recharge to its attack and VS is also similarly useless, then these things need a buff. Especially since that -recharge buff was a side effect of something introduced to the game that wasn't initially meant to happen.
When someone comes and posts about how they are shelving all their storm toons because suddenly, they are broken and worthless, its silly.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is really silly is that a tier 9 power is totally subpar to others when it is not properly enhanced, including -recharge among others.
While at the same time some other powers that are right out of the box awesome ( like MindLink ) can still get even better because they keep their "sneak -recharge IO slotting" untouched.
Silly indeed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe what's silly is that people have a preconceived notion of what a power is supposed to do and don't look at the context of the power and the set it is in.
Lightning Storm is a compliment to the other powers in the Storm Summoning set. Its still a power for defenders, controllers and corruptors. I highly doubt its purpose was to be a stand-alone mini-blaster. It does AoE knockback and some damage. When used with the rest of the storm powers...its hardly subpar.
VS and Gun Drone, and this is just my opinion, both need a second attack or utility function to round them out. That does not mean that they should inherit recharge to attacks from the caster or IO sets.
Yes, I understand that some people will be affected, but I don't think they are affected to the degree where the toon is so much less effective, that they need to shelve it.
[ QUOTE ]
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It would make so much more sense if we simply were allowed to slot any power with any kind of enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it actually wouldn't. Some powers would see no benefit from certain enhancements even if you could slot it. What do you imagine an end mod enhancements would do to improve Gun Drone? Oh wait...nothing!
Now I have jumped on the devs myself when they have done things that I don't agree with. Repeatedly.
I am honestly having trouble though, with the 'huge number' of people who suddenly find that -recharge was the only thing making their pets worth a damn.
If pets NEED that type of boost to be effective, then there is something wrong with the pet...period. If Gun Drone is 'useless' without a -recharge to its attack and LS is laughable without a -recharge to its attack and VS is also similarly useless, then these things need a buff. Especially since that -recharge buff was a side effect of something introduced to the game that wasn't initially meant to happen.
When someone comes and posts about how they are shelving all their storm toons because suddenly, they are broken and worthless, its silly.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is really silly is that a tier 9 power is totally subpar to others when it is not properly enhanced, including -recharge among others.
While at the same time some other powers that are right out of the box awesome ( like MindLink ) can still get even better because they keep their "sneak -recharge IO slotting" untouched.
Silly indeed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe what's silly is that people have a preconceived notion of what a power is supposed to do and don't look at the context of the power and the set it is in.
Lightning Storm is a compliment to the other powers in the Storm Summoning set. Its still a power for defenders, controllers and corruptors. I highly doubt its purpose was to be a stand-alone mini-blaster. It does AoE knockback and some damage. When used with the rest of the storm powers...its hardly subpar.
VS and Gun Drone, and this is just my opinion, both need a second attack or utility function to round them out. That does not mean that they should inherit recharge to attacks from the caster or IO sets.
Yes, I understand that some people will be affected, but I don't think they are affected to the degree where the toon is so much less effective, that they need to shelve it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its not that people will shelve them because they are much less effective, people are disgruntled because they can see "weaker" sets getting weaker. We dont have fire/kins in here complaining because quite frankly fire/imps is not where they get their damage from, the majority of that is from hotfeet, but poo man from earth control however needs all the DPS he can get Jack frost too (yeah yeah this magical fix will resolve all AI issues they would ahve us beleive but people on test are not reporting this)
VS and Gun Drone are just insulting powers in their current state even with their current "game breaking" ability to recycle their attacks faster. The cost to summon these is 26 end per minute which is rediculous, to put it in context if the crappy patron epic pets were on the same cost to existence ratio they would cost 104 end per summon, so you would need an accolade before even being able to summon it and these are powers in primary and secondary sets.
Many other summmons cost 26 end but not per 60 seconds, we have
Dark Extraction
Phantom Army
All patron pets
Dark servant
Fire imps
Phantasm
Fly trap
and probably more, all with longer durations, ranging from 200 seconds (dark extraction i beleive you can still get multiples of them out as well) to perma. I dont think anyones asking for GD and VS to be perma but even if they were it wouldnt make much of a difference as they still recycle the one crappy attack as opposed to the much better "pets" listed above and I never ever thought I would be calling a patron pet better than anything.
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I am just saying now that you take away something that some MMs been enjoying (-recharge in pet's attack chain), are there gonna be some adjustments to make up for it?
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Fixing their pets' attack cycling generally makes up for it...
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You're assuming that the change really did that. From what I've seen only the Bruiser is behaving better.
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Really? Because that goes against other people's reports in this thread...
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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I find it hard to believe that the power is too powerful if allowed to use generic IOs but not if you use the more powerful set IOs.
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As far as pure recharge is concerned, Set IOs do not buff more (except possibly through set bonuses, but there are ways to simulate that) than pure recharge SOs/IOs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, Set IOs can buff more than SOs/Basic IOs, if you wish to improve more than one aspect of a power. By frankenslotting two Def/Rech IOs in Mind Link, you can get higher bonuses to both Defense and Recharge than you'd get by slotting a single basic Defense and basic Recharge IO.
Similarly, by slotting a Def/Rech and a Def/Rech/End IO, you could boost Mind Link's Defense and Recharge by a little more than using basic IOs would and get some Endurance Reduction for free.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
so quick question. Becasue its entirely unfair to just not have powers like AB/SB and AM affect pets recharges, you ARE going to keep working on how to fix the "issue" and let those powers buff pets still right? You're not just saying "never again will they be boosted by +recharge"
Also, back to the original please look into boosting pets recharges of their attacks using recharge enhancements.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
My preferred solution to a problem like this would be a 'pet powers preference' interface. But that would probably get super effort intensive.
Ex:
My bruiser runs up and gets stuck on foot stomp, I have no problems. It's the hurl cycling that I have problems with. So, um.............. If I can edit my pet AI in a very basic way (a checkbox window that shows all my pets, with the option to set up two or three I can switch between) and have the decision tree sit on the client while the verification system sits on the server, my pet becomes less effective during lag but stops being such a [censored] otherwise.
Now, I'm not a game programmer, but that's the way I would try and work it as a non-game programmer. I know AI's are a real mess.
@ Frost.
[ QUOTE ]
Forgive me for exploiting the game and having no idea I was doing it. You are smart enough to realize that if you put a rech SO in a fire imp the detailed power widow tells me it is attacking faster right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well since it wasn't supposed to be like that I'm guessing... no... not that smart at all.... and I don't know... I'm weird I thought that when I slotted recharge into pets it was for the purpose of reducing the down time of the power.... not the down time of everything the pet does ever.... you know... the same way it works for So's, to's, do's, and other single enhancements (only effects one thing)?
[ QUOTE ]
How the hell was I supposed to know they weren't and only by slotting a thunderstike dam/rech was LS actually benefiting?
I guess I should have asked the devs to send me the code to know I wasn't supposed to be benefiting...
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I don't know.... Did you think putting a rechage SO should do the same thing that a recharge IO did for pet powers? Do you assume that putting a green into a bots healing power should effect their regen too? Or that end mod enhancements in pets should increase their recovery? I'm not in your mind.... so explain it to me.
@ IceScykle
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Its not that people will shelve them because they are much less effective, people are disgruntled because they can see "weaker" sets getting weaker.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the way to make them stronger is to take advantage of loopholes that many prob don't know about rather than advocating buffs and trying to bring it up to par? 
And I may be crazy.... but I thought people would go bonkers over any perceived nerf whatsoever.... not one in specific......
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VS and Gun Drone are just insulting powers in their current state even with their current "game breaking" ability to recycle their attacks faster.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again loopholes are not the way to "fix" a power. If it needs buffing that can probably be done via a second power added. Unfortunately datamining is slow as [censored]......
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The cost to summon these is 26 end per minute which is rediculous, to put it in context if the crappy patron epic pets were on the same cost to existence ratio they would cost 104 end per summon, so you would need an accolade before even being able to summon it and these are powers in primary and secondary sets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats only if you overlook the fifteen minute recharge of the pets compared to what..... 60- 180 seconds? Lets compare again.
Gun drone is up for a minute and a half. Down for a minute and a half. Out of the box it can be used 50% of the time.
VS is up for a minute, down for... well nothing really it is done recharging as soon as you finish. So it can literally be used 100% of the time.
Lightning storm is up for a minute down for a 30 seconds after. So it is up 2/3s of the time.
Now the Patron pets (not going to even touch on the fact that the are patron powers and prob go by a different set of rules) are up for four minutes and then down for 11. So it is up pretty much 36% of the time.
Also I'm not quite sure where you are going with your point... besides comparing the powers of controllers and villain epics to primary/secondary powers..... but anyway continuing on...
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Many other summmons cost 26 end but not per 60 seconds, we have
Dark Extraction
[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize that it has an acc check as well as needing an enemy body to work right? I think that may make it a little different from the general summon an go powers.
[ QUOTE ]
Phantom Army
Fire imps
Phantasm
Fly trap
[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize that these are controller primary powers right? They were designed that way with a reason in mind you know? Not quite sure what point your trying to make... other than "VS and Gun drone were ok as is because of all these controller, villain epic, and warshade powers!"
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dont think anyones asking for GD and VS to be perma but even if they were it wouldnt make much of a difference as they still recycle the one crappy attack as opposed to the much better "pets" listed above and I never ever thought I would be calling a patron pet better than anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then as said before... they need to be fixed through advocating a buff... like possibly a second attack to chain through. Not by taking advantage of a loophole in a system.
I had a few questions which I didn't find the answers to (and i apologize if they were answered within these page, I didn't see it). Could someone answer or direct me to an answer?
I read Pet Powers will no longer be affected by an "outside" source (i.e. Speed Boost), and I wish I remembered the post. Does this mean that slotted Enhancements within the power itself will affect it still? Or are those still considered 'outside sources' making the power unaffected by the enhanced slots? Would a recharge enhancement be ignored completely by this power reducing not only the pet's attack recharge, but also the overall power recharge?
Thanks for he help folks.
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read Pet Powers will no longer be affected by an "outside" source (i.e. Speed Boost), and I wish I remembered the post. Does this mean that slotted Enhancements within the power itself will affect it still? Or are those still considered 'outside sources' making the power unaffected by the enhanced slots? Would a recharge enhancement be ignored completely by this power reducing not only the pet's attack recharge, but also the overall power recharge?
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pets and pseudo pets can no longer have their own powers' recharge affected at all. slotting recharge ehancements will still make the summon come up faster.
Edited for clarity
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blah blah blah, out of context blah blah pyramid blah blah missing the point blah
[/ QUOTE ]
Your comments are summed up perfectly there, you seem to be accusing people of taking advantage of a "loophole" which is farcical, this has been the status quo for 7 issues and certainly known about within the dev team (but not by the majority of players) People will have become used to however this effects their damage output and this will unfairly effect many players.
Personally this wont even affect me, I have long since given up (after many many trys) to gain benefit from VS and my characters are not pet dependant (hell MM is the only AT i havent managed to ever get to 50)
What I find gauling though is sub par powers are being held up as examples of specifcs that need this "nerf" VS and Gun Drone, without any lip service whatsoever of "if we find this affects said power too negatively we will look at what we can do to improve it" That line alone would have shut up 90% of people annoyed at this change, we cannot expect that as a given as player powers have remained broken and unchanged for years previously.
This is just another nerf that they tried to pass off as a buff "yeah yeah it will fix retarded pet ai....maybe....perhaps....in one pet....." and "but dont worry, your pets wont be able to be speed DEBUFFED either..... you know all those rampaging mobs that -recharge debuff your pets.....well ok theres hardly any.....and this will also mean enemy pets are immune from your -recharge debuffs which are much more numerous.....but maybe we will change enemy pets in the future so they can be debuffed again....... honest...."
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blah blah blah, out of context blah blah pyramid blah blah missing the point blah
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Your comments are summed up perfectly there, you seem to be accusing people of taking advantage of a "loophole" which is farcical, this has been the status quo for 7 issues and certainly known about within the dev team (but not by the majority of players) People will have become used to however this effects their damage output and this will unfairly effect many players.
[/ QUOTE ]
K.... and in my counterargument I will compare granite armor to pff to make my point that I should be able to attack through the pff... because that to me was the way you were going.
And since i5? Like before Io's, villains, and such? What the hell does the KTF have to do with anything? And as much as you would like to believe that large groups of people were using (hamis?) to get past the recharge of gun drones and Vs I can pretty much assure you that that is not true.
And people got used to it? People got used to the smoke grenade fix, mag 100 protection in Acro, and a number of things.... what is your point exactly? Oh yes, if people get used to something it should stay that way forever.
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What I find galling though is sub par powers are being held up as examples of specifics that need this "nerf" VS and Gun Drone, without any lip service whatsoever of "if we find this affects said power too negatively we will look at what we can do to improve it" That line alone would have shut up 90% of people annoyed at this change, we cannot expect that as a given as player powers have remained broken and unchanged for years previously.
[/ QUOTE ]
They are being held up as examples of what it is supposed to do and what it is actually doing? I just thought he chose them because they were the clearest examples (ie only one attack) of the problem... and not because they were overpowered (a shark that seems to be jumped alot in this thread).....
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This is just another nerf that they tried to pass off as a buff "yeah yeah it will fix retarded pet ai....maybe....perhaps....in one pet....."
[/ QUOTE ]
From the little I know of coding it is pretty much impossible to tell whether or not a bug will be fixed until after you do the change... more so in more complex systems. From my (very little) experience it tends to be trial and error until you solve the problem. As much as you would like for them to leave certain aspects untouched while they try to fix negative aspects... I'm pretty sure that is impossible/very hard to do.
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and "but dont worry, your pets wont be able to be speed DEBUFFED either..... you know all those rampaging mobs that -recharge debuff your pets.....well ok theres hardly any.....
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean besides the 5th column, arachnoids, Arachnos (soldiers, widows, fortunatas, Tarantulas, the robots), banished parthenon, Cabal, Carnival of shadows, Circle of thorns, Coralax, Council, Crey, Devoured Earth, Freakshow, Knives of artemis, longbow, The lost, Malta, Outcasts, Paragon Police Department, Paragon protectors, Psychic Clockwork, Rikti, Soldiers of Ruluruu, Tsoo, Vahzilok, Vanguard, Winter hord, and Wyvern?
Haven't read the rest of the thread except for spots here and there but my thoughts are these.....
Sparky was buffed a couple issues ago because it was under performing. It's not targettable (so it can't be destroyed), it accepts recharge enhancements, it has a finite duration, you can only have one out at a time, and it's recharge time matches its duration with out slotting, so the only reason that recharge is even allowed is that you devs know it was there to speed up the firing of sparky's blasts. In essence this nerf nullifies the buff that Sparky received so he's back to the same level of underperformance that he was pre-buff.
Auto turret was a poor performing pet. It took too long to cast, was interruptible, and was only mobile through the "unforseen" use of recall friend. When you fixed the griefing exploit from using TP foe on Malta turrets you made the old turret non-viable. It's "buff" was in the current form on live. Self mobile instead of fixed and able to accept recharge since it is both destroyable and has a shorter duration than recharge. Recharge still has a function here but the firing speed nerf makes gun drone not worth the power pick again. (If you want to really make gun drone worth it make it identical to the Malta Gun Drone. 1 second of non-interruptible cast time. Even at the current endurance costs and with the recharge nerf this would make it a viable power.)
Lightning storm was always good, even back in the days of SOs only. This change for Lightening storm just takes it from Uber back to good again so I have no reason to complain here.
Recharge intensive pet sets. I understood that these were created to increase the firing rate of the pets that they were accepted into. What exactly is their purpose now? Sparky accepts them but post nerf gets absolutely no benefit from the "recharge intensive" part of the set or the recharge aspect that's a part of the IOs in these sets. Since Sparky isn't targettable it's not affected by recharge slows pre-change anyway.
Gun Drone "could" actually benefit from the recharge in the intensive pets sets and the purple set but it can't slot them. What gives here?
What's the chances of getting some consistancy on pet rules before taking the proverbial machette to all of them?
How about waiting an issue (it's all ready in place on live can it be worse by waiting an issue to get a real fix toghether?) and actually getting consistant pet rules for all pet class powers (taking destroyable and non-destroyable into account) and making a game wide improvement instead of nerfs of various strengths?
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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You're assuming that the change really did that. From what I've seen only the Bruiser is behaving better.
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Really? Because that goes against other people's reports in this thread...
[/ QUOTE ]I know Grave Knights and Jack Frost are both acting much better with this change.
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Sparky accepts them but post nerf gets absolutely no benefit from the "recharge intensive" part of the set or the recharge aspect that's a part of the IOs in these sets.
[/ QUOTE ]As has been said several dozen times already, that recharge will *still* allow you to get the pet out more often. Which was the point of these sets in the first place.
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of course, Castle being the math and spreadsheet worshipper that he is see that in a particular instance with a particular build with a particular set while being under the influence of particular external buffs a pet MAY be summoned that deals fractionally more DPS than he could stand for.
Gamebreaking = player benefits
Inconsequencial = player detriments
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Before you continue bashing the spreadsheet approach to trying to make powers work, how else would you propose Castle do it? People in here complain that the Devs don't have a clue about how the game actually plays. It takes more than "how it feels" to make the powers, or animations, or writing, or any other aspect of the game, work.
Also, if it were inconsequential, it wouldn't be worth fixing. Since we can't see as far down the development road as Castle and the other Devs, I'm guessing that the problems Castle described are a little bigger than that, and therefore, worth fixing now that there's a way to do it. And when a better way is found, that fix will supercede this one.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.