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Poster: _Synchotron_
Q: Why are merits untradable/unsellable? All the rewards they're replacing had no such restrictions, why these? If they have to be untradable/unsellable, why aren't they account-based, rather than character-based? If you run more than a couple characters at a time, this will fragment your merit pools and dramatically reduce the value of the merits you earn. If its a reward for time played, why should the particular hero I play matter?
A: Merits were designed to represent an individual characters accomplishments and time invested doing missions. Thus, untradeable and unsellable.
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I realize there are pros and cons to making merits tradable. However, I have some concerns regarding the practicality of this system.
These concerns more or less translate into the 'merits discourage altitis' argument that has been raised numerous times already. However, here is an example coming from the perspective of someone who usually puts together TFs (not necessarily speed runs)...
In the past my experience has gone something like this:
Me: "X TF is forming up. Could use a Y AT (whichever AT is needed). Still need Z number of people to start."
Player: "Sure, I have that AT. Let me switch."
Team Mate: "If we don't get a Y, I can switch toons."
How I predict i13 TFs will be formed:
Me: "X TF is forming up. Could use a Y AT (whichever AT is needed). Still need Z number of people to start."
Player: "I have a Y, but he's not my merit toon. Sorry."
Team Mate: "I also have a Y, but I really want the merits on this toon."
I realize that team composition matters on some TFs (MSTF for example) a lot more than others. However, from a very practical stand point, it does make forming teams for TFs more difficult/restrictive, especially if you are trying to form a TF that requires 7 or 8 people to start at times of the day that are not peak hours or on servers that are less populated.
If my prediction is off, please feel free to inform me. 
I haven't had as much time as I would like to review all of the feedback/changes that are being made.
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
First post after Amy!!!!
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With the complete loss of Random Pool C's and D's, there will be almost NONE on the market on either side.. Few people, if any, will 'waste' their precious merits buying something just to sell it.
I see almost no upside to the new Merit system, and lots and lots of Downside.
If they at least kept the 'random' pool C, they would continue to hit the market now and then, and since Pool C drops are and will continue to be a MASSIVE Crapshoot (will that be censored,? It shouldn't be..) that no one will waste their Merits on, it will at least keep some of those recipes available.
I don't like this one bit. I won't get Merits for running other people's story arcs, there are no Random Merits, and any of the TF's that I CAN do in my limited playtime are relegeted to the minimum reward available.
This 'forces' me to actually do what I haven't in the past - run the same stupid TF over and over for the 'best' reward I can find, and 'forces' me to just do it with one character.
I don't like it, in any scenario I can imagine. I usually try to look for the 'best' in any situation. I'm having trouble seeing one here.
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/signed
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Poster: _Synchotron_
Q: Why are merits untradable/unsellable? All the rewards they're replacing had no such restrictions, why these? If they have to be untradable/unsellable, why aren't they account-based, rather than character-based? If you run more than a couple characters at a time, this will fragment your merit pools and dramatically reduce the value of the merits you earn. If its a reward for time played, why should the particular hero I play matter?
A: Merits were designed to represent an individual characters accomplishments and time invested doing missions. Thus, untradeable and unsellable.
[/ QUOTE ]
I realize there are pros and cons to making merits tradable. However, I have some concerns regarding the practicality of this system.
These concerns more or less translate into the 'merits discourage altitis' argument that has been raised numerous times already. However, here is an example coming from the perspective of someone who usually puts together TFs (not necessarily speed runs)...
In the past my experience has gone something like this:
Me: "X TF is forming up. Could use a Y AT (whichever AT is needed). Still need Z number of people to start."
Player: "Sure, I have that AT. Let me switch."
Team Mate: "If we don't get a Y, I can switch toons."
How I predict i13 TFs will be formed:
Me: "X TF is forming up. Could use a Y AT (whichever AT is needed). Still need Z number of people to start."
Player: "I have a Y, but he's not my merit toon. Sorry."
Team Mate: "I also have a Y, but I really want the merits on this toon."
I realize that team composition matters on some TFs (MSTF for example) a lot more than others. However, from a very practical stand point, it does make forming teams for TFs more difficult/restrictive, especially if you are trying to form a TF that requires 7 or 8 people to start at times of the day that are not peak hours or on servers that are less populated.
If my prediction is off, please feel free to inform me. I haven't had as much time as I would like to review all of the feedback/changes that are being made.
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Seems about right to me.
I pride myself on being a utility player. I'm MORE active than a "casual" player, in all honesty, so i have a fair number of alts that have hit 50. One from each and every hero AT, and 3 of the villians. I pride myself on being able play any pistion as it were. Need a tank? See Carbide, my Invlun/SS. Defender? Acid Rock is your man, the Rad/Sonic. Controller? Zero G the Gravity/Kin troller of pure awsome. (he was my first 50. He has a special place in meh heart.) Blaster? Major Amp, Sonic/NRG, good to go. Scrapper... for some reason... take your pick, i got 3. Personal Fav is Gracken Kat/Invuln. I can even bring a Peacebringer if your feeling froggy.
NOW... i forsee me spending ALOT of time on Acid Rock... and while i enjoy the heck out of playin him... I enjoy changing gears from day to day.
Doing such under this new systems punishes me. and why? can the dev's give me ONE GOOD REASON why i shouldn't be able to pool my resorces between all my alts? Between my 2 accounts? Bah.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
[ QUOTE ]
Q: Why are merits untradable/unsellable? All the rewards they're replacing had no such restrictions, why these? If they have to be untradable/unsellable, why aren't they account-based, rather than character-based? If you run more than a couple characters at a time, this will fragment your merit pools and dramatically reduce the value of the merits you earn. If its a reward for time played, why should the particular hero I play matter?
A: Merits were designed to represent an individual character’s accomplishments and time invested doing missions. Thus, untradeable and unsellable.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is completely absurd. Merits should absolutely be account based or tradeable. The rewards that they are replacing had NO restrictions on them, and this completely penalizes people who play several characters. I have SEVEN 50's that I routinely play on TF's based on what kind of character my SG needs at the time. Now I have absolutely no incentive to play anyone but my "main" because ultimately that is who I want to have the best rewards.
This not only hurts players who like variety, it hurts the players that are used to them being able to fill any role in a team.
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With the complete loss of Random Pool C's and D's, there will be almost NONE on the market on either side.. Few people, if any, will 'waste' their precious merits buying something just to sell it.
[/ QUOTE ]*shrug* I, on the other hand, know there will be a good number of people that will. I like the Big 3...but I'm not overly concerned with getting them. So I'll still stick with the random roll. If I happen to get one of the big 3, I can sell it, and fund a build on an alt of mine that (probably) doesn't use one of those expensive IOs. If I don't...well, at least I only spent 20 merits on it...and I at least got something either I, or one of my friends, can likely use on one of our alts...or is at least worth a decent chunk on the market.
People really over-dramatize the quality of Pool C. Is every single recipe worth 10 million or more? No. But your odds of getting something at least worth your time are pretty good...especially now, with the ability to roll at a specific level range.
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I don't have that option now. Now I have to grind to get what I want. It just doesn't seem to be a very casual friendly system.
[/ QUOTE ]Instead, you have the option of getting a random roll with almost any task force, and still getting that chance at getting lucky.
You just can't do it in 30 minutes anymore.
((Edit: And yes, I fully realize that other TFs than Katie and Eden can be done quickly, and rewards will be nerfed, and blah blah blah. I don't want to hear the dooooomsaying. It's been repeated enough in this thread already.))
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I had a big response set but based on what others are saying I think you get the picture that you guys are way way off track by trying to force a paying playerbase to play an open ended MMO ANY way other than the way "THEY" want to play.
Your attempt to get people to play the other content "YOU" want them to play makes no sense and cannot be explained away.
[/ QUOTE ]Er...please explain to me where they're forcing you to do anything.
You still have the choice of running random missions...street sweeping...ouroing missions...running a TF...running mission arcs...or even sitting in Pocket D and cybering. Where are they taking this choice away?
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This is the one I don't get. With these merits and no more random, there won't be any recipes on the AH, or the few that are will be even costlier. Hell even the Fear and Confuse sets are going to cost more now, for the few people that do use them. As other posters have mentioned, who the heck is going to piss away merits on Pool C random, when the devs even admit :
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The cost of pool D rewards are higher due to the significantly higher likelihood of getting the desired enhancement with a single roll. Taskforce reward tables have substantially more items on them than Trial reward tables.
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which is translated to "pool c has too much crap", which is what we've been saying on the market forum for 18 frickin months!!
[/ QUOTE ]So...the pool is going to dry up...which means prices are going to go up...which means your likelihood of getting a good recipe will go up.
Hmmm...seems the idea of going random seems more lucrative now, no?
It may not stay exactly the *same*...but random rolls will still be used.
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Why was this not the way it was originally or changed after the above became more than clear? Makes too much sense.
[/ QUOTE ]Some people, myself included, actually *do* consider the fears and confuses and such to be worthwhile recipes.
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Now if you WANT to spend 3000 merits instead of 1000, that's your business. But don't pretend that it makes sense.
[/ QUOTE ]I like you. Let's be friends.
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Doing such under this new systems punishes me. and why? can the dev's give me ONE GOOD REASON why i shouldn't be able to pool my resorces between all my alts? Between my 2 accounts? Bah.
[/ QUOTE ]Not a dev, but my guess would be the difficulty in making them "account tradable", so to speak...and not tradable, period.
I know this isn't a suggestions thread, and thank you for the Q&A:
Question 1:
"Would there be any consideration to adding pool C&D recipes to random mob drops or normal mission rewards? As long as the rate remains rare, then there would still be a supply of random pool C&D drops to feed the auction house."
Question 2:
"Why is there a disparity in time between Task Forces and normal game content? Radio missions and task forces are all that is ever done. Wouldn't a bonus for completing in game missions given from contacts more fit the design goal of getting people to play the actual content of the game?"
Question 3:
"Is there a way to measure how long you are in a task force that doesn't count time logged off the system? Wouldn't that make the most sense to gear rewards for the actual time spent in a TF capped to a certain amount. If there was enough of an inherent bonus and a smaller time component, this would discourage dragging feet."
Thanks and nice to meet another Dev.
Any possibility of adding merits as rare drops; like Vanguard Merits... but from any faction; at a less frequent rate?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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I appreciate that our feedback has been at least given a good hearing, and some of it, like the Knockback uniques and the Random drop pricing has been tweaked.
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The one thing that bothered me about Synapse's response to my queries was that while the issue with Steadfast Protection vs. Karma KB protection drops is going to be addressed, it's being addressed (IMO) in the wrong way.
Neither recipe is unique, which is the only slotting restriction that exists that modifies prices consistently in the merit window. Both of them are going to cost 50% more than every other non-unique uncommon recipe in Pool A.
Because they're popular? There's an unlimited quantity of things that are popular, so you make people earn more fake loot to buy things that more people want?
This logic makes no sense to me. They should both be the exact same cost as any other uncommon Pool A drop. If you were going to price-adjust based on popularity, the adjustment should be DOWN, not up, because the point of the game is supposed to be to have fun. Getting something that keeps you from getting knocked around enhances fun. Grinding 50% longer to get the same level of reward impedes fun.
I say, just leave the popularity of the recipe out of it. If they see the need to price adjust within pools, make it based on slotting status (unique vs. non) and leave it at that. If they need to increase merit prices for things that are more popular, then it's only logical to decrease merit prices for things that are less popular.
Yes, Trap of the Hunter, Sting of the Manticore, and Glimpse of the Abyss, I'm looking at you. And your reduction should be way more than 50%.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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With the complete loss of Random Pool C's and D's, there will be almost NONE on the market on either side.. Few people, if any, will 'waste' their precious merits buying something just to sell it.
[/ QUOTE ]*shrug* I, on the other hand, know there will be a good number of people that will. I like the Big 3...but I'm not overly concerned with getting them. So I'll still stick with the random roll. If I happen to get one of the big 3, I can sell it, and fund a build on an alt of mine that (probably) doesn't use one of those expensive IOs. If I don't...well, at least I only spent 20 merits on it...and I at least got something either I, or one of my friends, can likely use on one of our alts...or is at least worth a decent chunk on the market.
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Agreed. I think the people who believe there won't be any Pool C's introduced to the market haven't tested the system much to see what a 50 can produce doing nothing but flashbacks. I've not run that many flashbacks (my postings in the Meritorious Measurement thread pretty much list them all) and have earned better than a hundred merits. Total time investment? Not that huge, and certainly something I could do logging in for a half-hour each day and just running a couple of random flashbacks with friends who happen to be on, or solo. I do ghost everything I can, so not everyone will earn merits at the same rate I do, but I think that most solo-capable toons will be able to earn merits at a pretty good clip - and drops have always favored solo-capable toons, so that's no big change.
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People really over-dramatize the quality of Pool C. Is every single recipe worth 10 million or more? No. But your odds of getting something at least worth your time are pretty good...especially now, with the ability to roll at a specific level range.
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My plan right now is to take random drops from the 10-14 pool whenever I can for the first few weeks the issue is live. Why? So that I can get Pool C recipes from the new 10-30 sets (at max level) as fast as possible, either for my own characters or to take advantage of the "OMGGOTTAHAFITNOW!" crowd's willingness to pay a premium, that I can then use to buy other stuff.
Random is more fun than saving up. Being able to earn more than a random drop's worth of merits for almost every TF out there makes the idea appealing enough that at least until I realize there's something I specifically want for a build, I have no intention of saving up.
And if the doomcryers are correct, and most people aren't taking the random drop, that means that I'll be one of the few people who ARE supplying the market. That's not a bad position to be in, either.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Yeah, I'd echo the concern about a majority of 'fast TFs' being run by the same groups of players repeatedly and often, rather than by everyone and at the same intervals. This is especially true because average players who are likely to generate average times will play less, and do taskforces much less often, than 'powergamer' type players.
Ie, if average people do perhaps one regular-speed TF X per week, a farmer or power-gamer who does three 'fast' TF Xes per day, everyday (by alternating characters), will generate twenty fast "time samples" to the average person's one normal time sample. How will this be dealt with and accounted for, especially in a manner that will be fair to average players and in light of the fact that the optimal-reward oriented TF players will simply move on to the next piece of optimal content if their current content is made unoptimal?
At what point, basically, will 'adjustments' based on relatively small numbers of people running the content quickly, stop?
Additionally - villains need more SFs. Really, I expect it's going to be ridiculous how much easier getting merits will be for heroes as compared to villains.
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Which is my concern there is a reason I have done more Katie TFS and Respec TFS than most the others ones. It is time factor I rarely get to play more than 2 hours at a time. In fact alot of my toons where grinded out levels at 30 minute intervals.
I do run large task forces when I can that averages out to about 1 every 2 months heck I only average about 2 -3 katies a month and they are Super Fast
I run Lady Grey Statesman; synapse a couple times I done the Rikti Task Force a few times.
It is not that I do not like the content it is hard for me to have 4-6 hours to play a TF
I hate running Orbus but that looks like the way I will have to go just grind out Orbous missions over and over and over again
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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And if the doomcryers are correct, and most people aren't taking the random drop, that means that I'll be one of the few people who ARE supplying the market. That's not a bad position to be in, either.
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My prediction is that initially, very few people will be using random rolls, but that over time and as things settle out, the number will increase.
I'll be doing it from the outset. My odds are pretty good of getting something useful, and I think that there are enough people who can earn inf faster and more easily than they can earn merits that there'll be people who will be willing to pay me for that stuff.
My first thought was that I would start doing this only after I'd used my first merits on a character to obtain a -KB IO--the only particular IO that I have a very strong desire to get. But those are Pool A, after all, so there will still be a supply of them, and possibly less demand (to get them through the market), so I'll plan on buying those with inf instead.
We will see. It'll be crazy at first, but I expect it'll settle out to something reasonable in the end. Hope so anyway.
I expect that I'm going to hoard merits for a while. I have 3 different builds in Mids that are only lacking purple sets and LotG +recharges from being put together. All told, I'm aiming for 13 of them - and that's just for one of the builds for each of those characters.
Random recipes being 1/10 of a LotG isn't efficient for me when I know through experience that random rolls don't get me anywhere close to that percentage.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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1) Make merits tradeable / sellable..
2) Give option at end for either getting Merit or spinning the wheel
3) Market was brought in for a player driven economy, Now the economy is not based on the market...This for recipes not salvage.
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Again there is a lot I love about i13, but merits and base salvage lose is the breaking point.
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The one thing that bothered me about Synapse's response to my queries was that while the issue with Steadfast Protection vs. Karma KB protection drops is going to be addressed, it's being addressed (IMO) in the wrong way.
Neither recipe is unique, which is the only slotting restriction that exists that modifies prices consistently in the merit window. Both of them are going to cost 50% more than every other non-unique uncommon recipe in Pool A.
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Yes, this bothers me too. I was hoping to get the knockback protection IOs through merits for a couple of my characters... someday. It would take me a very long time to get 50 merits. For 75, I might as well forget about it, and make use of dual builds to gat Acrobatics. But that's no real loss, since I don't have the knockback protection IOs now. It's just a minor disappointment.
Any way I look at it, merits are a nerf to the existing system. If they had been an option instead of a replacement, they could have allowed some to save for something good, while others could grab the random recipes. This will significantly slow down players' ability to get a large number of recipes. If I cared about the rare recipes or the market, I might be concerned about that. Fortunately this doesn't affect me much. I do understand the problems other players will be having though.
[ QUOTE ]
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The one thing that bothered me about Synapse's response to my queries was that while the issue with Steadfast Protection vs. Karma KB protection drops is going to be addressed, it's being addressed (IMO) in the wrong way.
Neither recipe is unique, which is the only slotting restriction that exists that modifies prices consistently in the merit window. Both of them are going to cost 50% more than every other non-unique uncommon recipe in Pool A.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, this bothers me too. I was hoping to get the knockback protection IOs through merits for a couple of my characters... someday. It would take me a very long time to get 50 merits. For 75, I might as well forget about it, and make use of dual builds to gat Acrobatics. But that's no real loss, since I don't have the knockback protection IOs now. It's just a minor disappointment.
Any way I look at it, merits are a nerf to the existing system. If they had been an option instead of a replacement, they could have allowed some to save for something good, while others could grab the random recipes. This will significantly slow down players' ability to get a large number of recipes. If I cared about the rare recipes or the market, I might be concerned about that. Fortunately this doesn't affect me much. I do understand the problems other players will be having though.
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Two questions. One, why do people see merits as a replacement rather than an option? If you want the random roll option, you can use the random roll option. The only difference is that you have to go to a merit vendor to do it rather then rolling on the spot. Okay, and that some TF's will give you less than one random roll (while others will give you more.) But it is still an option. It hasn't disappeared.
Two, why not buy the -KB IO with inf instead? You don't have to rely on merits to get it. Did I miss something and something is going to happen to Pool A drops? If not, the supply will be more or less the same.
Might even be cheaper if some people are using merits to get them so the market demand goes down. Plus there's a third set now that has a -KB, so that should reduce the demand too.
[ QUOTE ]
Two questions. One, why do people see merits as a replacement rather than an option? If you want the random roll option, you can use the random roll option. The only difference is that you have to go to a merit vendor to do it rather then rolling on the spot. Okay, and that some TF's will give you less than one random roll (while others will give you more.) But it is still an option. It hasn't disappeared.
[/ QUOTE ]
Opportunity Cost. Spending those 20 merits on a random roll at Pool C is a bad bet if you're looking for something specific. The most you'll have to spend for a specific recipe is 250 merits. Or 12.5 random rolls. It's a bad gamble to take the roll. Before this, it wasn't a choice. You did a TF you got a roll, not skeeball tickets.
This isn't a problem with Pool D which is tiny and nearly everything it it is good.
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Two, why not buy the -KB IO with inf instead? You don't have to rely on merits to get it. Did I miss something and something is going to happen to Pool A drops? If not, the supply will be more or less the same.
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Agreed. The -KB IOs should be extraordinarily cheap depending on where the Universal Travel ones drop.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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The one thing that bothered me about Synapse's response to my queries was that while the issue with Steadfast Protection vs. Karma KB protection drops is going to be addressed, it's being addressed (IMO) in the wrong way.
Neither recipe is unique, which is the only slotting restriction that exists that modifies prices consistently in the merit window. Both of them are going to cost 50% more than every other non-unique uncommon recipe in Pool A.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, this bothers me too. I was hoping to get the knockback protection IOs through merits for a couple of my characters... someday. It would take me a very long time to get 50 merits. For 75, I might as well forget about it, and make use of dual builds to gat Acrobatics. But that's no real loss, since I don't have the knockback protection IOs now. It's just a minor disappointment.
Any way I look at it, merits are a nerf to the existing system. If they had been an option instead of a replacement, they could have allowed some to save for something good, while others could grab the random recipes. This will significantly slow down players' ability to get a large number of recipes. If I cared about the rare recipes or the market, I might be concerned about that. Fortunately this doesn't affect me much. I do understand the problems other players will be having though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two questions. One, why do people see merits as a replacement rather than an option? If you want the random roll option, you can use the random roll option. The only difference is that you have to go to a merit vendor to do it rather then rolling on the spot. Okay, and that some TF's will give you less than one random roll (while others will give you more.) But it is still an option. It hasn't disappeared.
Two, why not buy the -KB IO with inf instead? You don't have to rely on merits to get it. Did I miss something and something is going to happen to Pool A drops? If not, the supply will be more or less the same.
Might even be cheaper if some people are using merits to get them so the market demand goes down. Plus there's a third set now that has a -KB, so that should reduce the demand too.
[/ QUOTE ]I think with merits being an option the prices on them will hit rock bottom in addition to other pool A stuff that is overly priced. With time it will be better to get these with inf again. All merits did for those recipes is put up a price cap.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Two questions. One, why do people see merits as a replacement rather than an option? If you want the random roll option, you can use the random roll option. The only difference is that you have to go to a merit vendor to do it rather then rolling on the spot. Okay, and that some TF's will give you less than one random roll (while others will give you more.) But it is still an option. It hasn't disappeared.
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Because on average you'd get a lot more random recipe drops through the old system. I was including the random rolls through the vendor in my assessment.
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Two, why not buy the -KB IO with inf instead? You don't have to rely on merits to get it. Did I miss something and something is going to happen to Pool A drops? If not, the supply will be more or less the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
My two characters who received the knockback protection recipe drops didn't have a use for them, and aren't on the same servers as the characters who could really use them. The characters who could really use them don't have the inf necessary to purchase them.
But that doesn't really matter, because I'll be able to get knockback protection using the dual builds come I13. It's a little awkward, but I can mix some roleplaying into it.
[ QUOTE ]
Opportunity Cost. Spending those 20 merits on a random roll at Pool C is a bad bet if you're looking for something specific. The most you'll have to spend for a specific recipe is 250 merits. Or 12.5 random rolls. It's a bad gamble to take the roll. Before this, it wasn't a choice. You did a TF you got a roll, not skeeball tickets.
[/ QUOTE ]That's assuming you want one, and only one thing...and won't be satisfied with inf, either.
How many people will that actually be the case for?
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Opportunity Cost. Spending those 20 merits on a random roll at Pool C is a bad bet if you're looking for something specific. The most you'll have to spend for a specific recipe is 250 merits. Or 12.5 random rolls. It's a bad gamble to take the roll. Before this, it wasn't a choice. You did a TF you got a roll, not skeeball tickets.
[/ QUOTE ]That's assuming you want one, and only one thing...and won't be satisfied with inf, either.
How many people will that actually be the case for?
[/ QUOTE ]
Even if you're looking for a range of products, you're still better off taking the roll because of the very large number of recipes in each band. It's still a bad bet because for the same reason gambling in Vegas is. The odds are stacked against you.
As I said, this is not true of Pool D and would not be true of Pool C at a merit cost around 10.
If you're looking for influence, you're betting off saving for a Numina's or a LoTG 7.5% and selling that. Taking the roll is still a bad move. Ironically, this result is what I'm hoping we see a lot of, people looking for influence and so saving up merits for high-priced stuff to sell.
But then with influence, I'm not convinced that people will value influence as highly unless purples get completely out of control, which they may.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Opportunity Cost. Spending those 20 merits on a random roll at Pool C is a bad bet if you're looking for something specific. The most you'll have to spend for a specific recipe is 250 merits. Or 12.5 random rolls. It's a bad gamble to take the roll. Before this, it wasn't a choice. You did a TF you got a roll, not skeeball tickets.
This isn't a problem with Pool D which is tiny and nearly everything it it is good.
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Agreed that if you want one specific thing, and anything else is basically worthless to you, then the random roll is a very poor deal.
If your needs/wants are a little more flexible, it becomes a better deal.
At any rate, what this line of reasoning seems to come down to is: by adding a second option that is better (at least in some common situations), they took the first option away. That still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. People talk about it as if the random roll option no longer even existed.
I suppose this is just a semantics issue that I'll have to get over. I'll try.
I still think it won't always be a bad deal to take the random roll. The greater the proportion of possible results that is desirable to you, the better deal it is. I prices do rise on the less popular Pool C's, as has been predicted by some, then it becomes even better. At least by those who aren't looking for one specific thing.
Siofir: in your case, I wouldn't random roll either. But if I do random roll, and happen to get one of those things you want and put it on the market, would you be willing to bid on it? My random-roll strategy is kind of based on the idea that some people would, so it wouldn't be worthless on the market.
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Two questions. One, why do people see merits as a replacement rather than an option? If you want the random roll option, you can use the random roll option. The only difference is that you have to go to a merit vendor to do it rather then rolling on the spot. Okay, and that some TF's will give you less than one random roll (while others will give you more.) But it is still an option. It hasn't disappeared.
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Opportunity Cost. Spending those 20 merits on a random roll at Pool C is a bad bet if you're looking for something specific.
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Agreed. If you have a single-minded focus on obtaining a given reward, you should never take a random roll. If you don't care/have lots of alts you could use lots of different things for/insert other reason here, the random roll certainly makes more sense.
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The most you'll have to spend for a specific recipe is 250 merits. Or 12.5 random rolls. It's a bad gamble to take the roll. Before this, it wasn't a choice. You did a TF you got a roll, not skeeball tickets.
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Again - only a bad gamble if you have something specific you're working toward. Otherwise, it's just something to do with the merits you're getting anyway.
To me, the main problem with merits is that they can make a game that's "All about the journey" into something that is intrinsically destination-focused. If you're grinding out 200 merits to buy a LotG, you're not looking at the journey - you're looking at the end product. That's a significant shift in the way this game has always seemed to market itself, and how players market it to other players.
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Two, why not buy the -KB IO with inf instead? You don't have to rely on merits to get it. Did I miss something and something is going to happen to Pool A drops? If not, the supply will be more or less the same.
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Agreed. The -KB IOs should be extraordinarily cheap depending on where the Universal Travel ones drop.
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Pool C. When I found that out, I laughed. This is supposed to be an answer for folks who complained that there wasn't a -KB IO that went up to 50? Stick it in an already over-full Pool C where random drops won't reliably get you the IO, and purchasing it with merits costs over 100 merits more than what it would cost to get a Karma, which can find a home in two of the existing travel pools? Bad idea. Should've been Pool A.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Opportunity Cost. Spending those 20 merits on a random roll at Pool C is a bad bet if you're looking for something specific. The most you'll have to spend for a specific recipe is 250 merits. Or 12.5 random rolls. It's a bad gamble to take the roll. Before this, it wasn't a choice. You did a TF you got a roll, not skeeball tickets.
This isn't a problem with Pool D which is tiny and nearly everything it it is good.
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Agreed that if you want one specific thing, and anything else is basically worthless to you, then the random roll is a very poor deal.
If your needs/wants are a little more flexible, it becomes a better deal.
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As I said, it's never a good deal. Pool C has stuff that is so valuable that basically, there just isn't any reason not to save up for them. Numina's and LotGs and Miracle uniques will always be worth saving for.
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At any rate, what this line of reasoning seems to come down to is: by adding a second option that is better (at least in some common situations), they took the first option away. That still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. People talk about it as if the random roll option no longer even existed.
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You can't look at this in isolation. Yes they provide the option, but they provided another option that is so obviously better than it's foolish to take the first. Furthermore, they made the first option significantly more expensive than it was previously.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I think this is the crux of the issue. Will the players take what's behind door number 3 or will they save up for what they really want.
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This is excatily IT. Well people still buy random rolls in enough volume to feed the market... so that prices don't skyrockt or IO's go out of circulation.
I don't think they will. I think they'll save there merits.
On ONE hero. There TF hero.
That's what I forsee this system encourging people to do. Pick on guy, and grind rewards with him. Not everyone will, but i belive a majority will, for as long as they can stand it.
At least if we still had random rolls on tf's, supply to the market would stay consistent somewhat, (people would be more incline on shorter tf's to take a roll instead of merits) and would allow those of us that ENJOY our current playstyle to KEEP PLAYING OUR WAY. Will AT THE SAME TIME encourge people to play longer TF's and run story arches...
Your limiting our choices... encouring single hero/villian "mains", and discourging teaming. HOW can you thing that's a good idea is BEYOUND me. Are you being force by upper managment to do this? It seem uncharatistic to me...
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...