Guide to Issue 13 Base Costs / Requirements
By
9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-11-05 13:20 in Base Construction
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Is there a list of the minimum room size required for the base items? Like the fusion generator.
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http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...AkRNJyX_BMKHMw
You can thank MadScientist for that.
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I will check again tonight Rabbit.
@PlasmaStream
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I'm curious to know if there was a change...when I went in on test after the prestige grant, I did NOT find 'secure' plot prices to be as listed, they were a good deal higher than equivalent sizes for 'hidden' plots. Did this get changed?
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Not sure what you were looking at. The plot prices are identical to that listing you quoted. I just now checked. There ARE differences in the prices between Hidden and Secure plots once you get up to the top 3 sizes, but that difference is already reflected in that listing.
Any Idea if once this goes live if we increase the size of our plot and then decrease it again will we get the adjusted balance back? If so that would mean I would get an extra million prestige back which would help a lot.
@Sorak
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Any Idea if once this goes live if we increase the size of our plot and then decrease it again will we get the adjusted balance back? If so that would mean I would get an extra million prestige back which would help a lot.
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You don't even need to actually change your plot size. Re-selecting the exact same plot that you already have will give you a refund (unless you're on the default 8x8 plot of course).
Nice! Thank You.
@Sorak
Thank you, I have now bookmarked it.
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Part IV Upkeep
New Rent is calculated by certain items you have in base.
Enhancement Storage: 100 Prestige
Inspiration Storage: 100 Prestige
Public Salvage Storage: 100 Prestige
Empowerment Tables: 100 Prestige
For each item you have in your base of the above its 100 prestige.
This means the max rent most bases will have is approximately 2000 (as there is no reason to keep lower level empowerment stations aside from decoration)
Vaults do NOT have a prestige upkeep associated with them, so most will truly only see 1900 rent per cycle.
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SO this is storage and empowerment NOT size of base driven? I'm looking to upgrade my plot from 8x8 to a larger size to accomidate telepads for all zones. I have reconfigured my current base on live and I am selling my super computer and generator nightly before I log for the extra prestige. I'm putting a lot of thought into this, and I want to make sure I don't get hosed on rent. Please explain a bit to clarify...
Cheers...
BALANCE IS A NERF
Liberty Server
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80k is a lot. It doesn't look like a lot when people sit and farm and farm and flip and flip and farm some more. When characters don't participate in that sort of thing, those 80k tickets start adding up.
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No base needs more than 11 teleporters.
880K is, what, 3 SOs for a level 50 character?
I don't know what game you're playing, but I've got characters in their 30s sitting on 10 mill just from selling all the stuff they pick up for 1 inf on the market.
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80k is a lot. It doesn't look like a lot when people sit and farm and farm and flip and flip and farm some more. When characters don't participate in that sort of thing, those 80k tickets start adding up.
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No base needs more than 11 teleporters.
880K is, what, 3 SOs for a level 50 character?
I don't know what game you're playing, but I've got characters in their 30s sitting on 10 mill just from selling all the stuff they pick up for 1 inf on the market.
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Yes...I know this, but 8x8 does not accomidate 11 telepads (med bay, workshop etc..), thus my original question...Is rent plot size dependent or only storage/empowerment?
Cheers...
BALANCE IS A NERF
Liberty Server
@Energy Aura and @Ill Conceived on Global
Han Solo: [laughs] Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good BLASTER at your side, kid.
It will not be on plot size after issue 13 by all indications. However what it IS based on seems to be subject to change.
Edit:
You might also want to pay a bit of attention as to who the other poster was responding to. In this case it wasn't you.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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80k is a lot. It doesn't look like a lot when people sit and farm and farm and flip and flip and farm some more. When characters don't participate in that sort of thing, those 80k tickets start adding up.
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No base needs more than 11 teleporters.
880K is, what, 3 SOs for a level 50 character?
I don't know what game you're playing, but I've got characters in their 30s sitting on 10 mill just from selling all the stuff they pick up for 1 inf on the market.
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80k is just the cost under the current market. With dual builds coming, those prices will skyrocket at least briefly and probably hold higher after that initial spike. Plus this cost will probably be placed just on the SG Architect/Leader. For PvP bases this could quickly get very high.
Besides not every character wins the lotto while leveling up. I've had characters with over 50 mil by 30 and others with under 1 mil. Its highly inconsistent, though merits might even it out some.
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80k is a lot. It doesn't look like a lot when people sit and farm and farm and flip and flip and farm some more. When characters don't participate in that sort of thing, those 80k tickets start adding up.
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No base needs more than 11 teleporters.
880K is, what, 3 SOs for a level 50 character?
I don't know what game you're playing, but I've got characters in their 30s sitting on 10 mill just from selling all the stuff they pick up for 1 inf on the market.
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If it's 3 SO's on a level 50, what is it on multiple lower levels? Some folks seem to keep assuming that everyone has multiple level 50s just sitting around to fund these base additions, but here's a news flash - some people (probably mainly raging altoholics like me) DON'T have lots of 50s to be bankers for the group.
There are likely new SGs starting today, dreaming of getting just their first few telepads. Hopefully they are buying them with base salvage before I13 hits, because that 80K price tag will mean they will need to choose whether to spend invention salvage on getting their IOs or getting their telepads - and who is footing that bill?
Yes, it is more than possible to have a new level 20 character with 10 million if you understand the Market even a little bit, but it's also possible to have one that's broke because they messed up their market sales badly or just sold all their salvage to the vendors and spent their Inf on buying their first SO's. Especially redside where you can't make as much Inf selling stuff to the Market (although I suspect that buying Invention Salvage for a telepad is somewhat less there, I haven't tested it.)
P.S. Oh, and actually with the addition of a beacon for Pocket D, isn't the number now 12 telepads? And I am going to guess that there will be new zones added in the future as well. Just saying.
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P.S. Oh, and actually with the addition of a beacon for Pocket D, isn't the number now 12 telepads?
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No.
IIRC there are 21 beacons heroside. If you have 11 telepads, you will have 1 with only 1 beacon, so the Pocket D beacon can be added there.
You're correct though that people should not be assuming everyone has level 50s running around to farm salvage/prestige/inf for the group. I've been messing around on the test server with rebuilding our base there and while it is a whole lot cheaper than it has been (finally), it is still going to require a lot of work for new and existing small groups to get where they would like to be.
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Yes, it is more than possible to have a new level 20 character with 10 million if you understand the Market even a little bit, but it's also possible to have one that's broke because they messed up their market sales badly or just sold all their salvage to the vendors and spent their Inf on buying their first SO's. Especially redside where you can't make as much Inf selling stuff to the Market (although I suspect that buying Invention Salvage for a telepad is somewhat less there, I haven't tested it.)
P.S. Oh, and actually with the addition of a beacon for Pocket D, isn't the number now 12 telepads? And I am going to guess that there will be new zones added in the future as well. Just saying.
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I've got 5 mil on a level 20ish character of mine who might have got a bit lucky here and there but mostly didn't.
Lemme toss out some rough numbers here.
Let's assume an SG of 8 people is getting to level 20 from level 10, where they established their SG.
There's about 100,000 XP between level 10 and level 20. This is 2,000 level 20 minions worth.
But let's assume they always team up. This effectively doubles XP relative to other measures of advancement, so that's 1,000 approximate minions per character.
And let's assume they always play with rested XP on. 500 approximate minions per character.
Salvage drops at a rate of 8% per minion. So, by level 20, each member of this SG will have acquired 40 salvage, for a total of 320 salvage. Of this about 11 pieces will be rare, 56 uncommon, and the remainder (253) common.
Now let's look heroside at all the places a level 20 character could go. Remember, to get a beacon you need to explore the heck out of a zone, which means being able to survive in it.
Atlas Park, Galaxy City, Perez Park, The Hollows, Kings Row, Steel Canyon, Skyway City, Talos Island, Independence Port, Striga Isle, Boomtown, Faultline. And Pocket D, I guess. That's 7 teleporters' worth of locations. What the heck, round it up to 8.
Assuming they care about what kind of telepad they have, and that salvage winds up evenly distributed among the types, they will have 1 piece of their desired rare salvage, 4 of their desired uncommon salvage, and 20 of each needed common salvage.
The question then becomes, how much of the unneeded 10 rare, 52 uncommon, and 221 common salvage will they need to cash in to get 7 rares and 4 uncommons?
Villainside a level 20 only has to worry about going to maybe 4 places, potentially 5, so they're only looking at cashing that giant chunk of commons in for another couple rares.
Of course, this all assumes they've got enough prestige to buy and power 4 rooms, 8 teleporters, and 13 beacons, which I don't have numbers for but which I believe may not be a very reasonable assumption.
What I am saying in so many numbers is that these terrible oppressed newbies you make up cannot actually exist, barring the largest dump an RNG has ever taken on anyone.
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Too many assumptions to be in any shape or form to be an accurate hypothesis.
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I think it depends on the speed of an unladen swallow...European swallow, of course...
I think (more seriously) it's too early to tell what kinda 'baseline' there might be. When we're dealing with a huge unknown like the random number generator, which might well drop the needed salvage for level 1 telepad recipes in the first few hours of play (or might not, of course), how can we assume that it'll be too onerous for a new SG with new players (no twinking applied) to get the magical number of porters?
I still think the requirement for rare salvage in the porter recipes is ridiculous, don't get me wrong, I personally favor the idea of doing away with base item recipes completely, but I also think it's too early to tell just how much of a 'gating' this could be...for that matter, it's hard to say just how necessary it really is to have all the porters. When you can go (hero-side at least) from King's Row to Founders, Talos, and Faultline via Pocket D, I forget how many zones from level 25 (I think?) via the Oreo portal power, and even cut from Steel to Founders to Croatoa via the Midnighter's Club at whatever level you can first get into there (yes, I know you can't get to CinnamonRoar until 35, but you can still get into the club and use it as a shortcut quite a bit sooner than that, I've done it), we have a LOT of other travel options without even counting the trams. Yes, it's a heck of a lot easier to have base portals to every zone, but it's not the be-all, end-all...a group starting out could easily wait a little while 'til they get 'em all, this ain't Pokemon, don't haveta catch 'em all right away.
I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but does anyone know the salvage requirements for the AES?
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I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but does anyone know the salvage requirements for the AES?
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Here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...umber=12468209
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Sounds like Fabricator fun to me 
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It is. 
All the conversions to Brainstorms will count and all the Brainstorm to Invention Salvage will count.
Notation: Crafting a Base component like Tech Power to Brainstorms gives 3 Brainstorms but only ONE tick of progress for Fabricator.
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Maybe I missed it, but how do compenants work now? I have a ton of them currently how do they factor in?
ALso I have a Fushion generator already made but not installed? Does this get taken away? Can anyone test if you make an item with the current base salvage and hop over to test does it still appear with the new price or does it not recognize it? (I am at work atm)
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Currently if you have premade items like AES and Fusion crafted and ready to install and live and copy to Test, they will be at the OLD price. However this was with a VG of mine on Test that has NOT yet unlocked the Fusion Generator badge (coming soon). Unlocking the badge may alter the price of the one that is pre made......or not.
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QR
What happens if you have more than 30 salvage in a base salvage rack when the capacity is lowered? does all the salvage stay where is now, but once you take it out you can't put it back in? Or does it get lost in limbo?
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The salvage will remain in the bin but until you reduce the bin's contents to below the limit of 30 you can't store anything in them. No salvage was lost for me when this occurred, and my test base was quite....loaded.
This is speculation only:
It IS possible that we are seeing three recipies to craft an item like the teleporters as a prelude to an update that gives us different upgraded versions of the teleporter, similar to how there are 3 versions of the empowerment stations.
I can see having a version 2 and 3 teleporter unit, bigger in size then the model 1 units, needing a bit more power and control but also being able to take more teleporter beacons....
It's possible that items with multiple recipies could be receiving enhanced versions of them that would require a recipie that contains Hami Goo for example.
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This is speculation only:
It IS possible that we are seeing three recipies to craft an item like the teleporters as a prelude to an update that gives us different upgraded versions of the teleporter, similar to how there are 3 versions of the empowerment stations.
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Or each recipe corresponds to an io salvage level tier (lvl 4-25, 20-39, 35+)
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There are three level brackets: Low-Level, Mid-Level, and High-Level. Low-Level invention salvage may be dropped by enemies from levels 4-25. Mid-Level salvage may be dropped by enemies level 20-39. High-Level salvage may be dropped by enemies level 35+. Note that these ranges overlap. Enemies in an overlap might drop invention salvage from either valid bracket.
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<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Hidden__________Old Cost__________New Cost____% Savings
8x8____________________0________________0
8x12____________1,653,861___________84,500________ 95%
12x12___________3,307,772__________312,500________ 91%
12x16___________4,671,491__________722,000________ 85%
16x16___________6,597,540________1,250,000________ 81%
16x20___________8,623,310________1,984,500________ 77%
20x20__________11,271,093________2,812,500________ 75%
20x24__________14,027,605________3,872,000________ 72%
24x24__________17,458,263________5,000,000________ 71%
24x28__________26,573,949________6,384,500________ 76%
Secure__________Old Cost__________New Cost____% Savings
12x16__________11,250,000__________722,000________ 94%
16x16__________20,000,000________1,250,000________ 94%
16x20__________31,250,000________1,984,500________ 94%
20x20__________48,828,125________2,812,500________ 94%
20x24__________70,312,500________5,000,000________ 93%
24x24_________101,250,000________7,812,500________ 92%
24x28_________137,812,500_______11,250,000________ 92%</pre><hr />
8x8 ... 8x12 ... 12x12 plots: Hidden Only
12x16 ... 16x16 ... 16x20 ... 20x20 plots: Hidden and Secure
Note that a Secure plot is priced exactly the same as a Hidden plot of same size, meaning that for any plot size between 12x16 and 20x20 there is NO ADVANTAGE to staying with a Hidden plot. Conversely, there are multiple advantages to "upgrading" to a Secure plot in which you can have two Control and two Power main items. This essentially makes Hidden plots in these sizes completely redundant and unnecessary (barring changes to the pricing structure).
20x24 ... 24x24 ... 24x28: Hidden and Secure
Only at these plot sizes do Secure plots become more expensive (to buy) than Hidden ones ... and even then, not by all that much.
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I'm curious to know if there was a change...when I went in on test after the prestige grant, I did NOT find 'secure' plot prices to be as listed, they were a good deal higher than equivalent sizes for 'hidden' plots. Did this get changed?