City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Guide to Issue 13 Base Costs / Requirements

9thcircle

By 9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-11-05 13:20 in Base Construction

 

Posted

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Part IV Upkeep

New Rent is calculated by certain items you have in base.

Enhancement Storage: 100 Prestige
Inspiration Storage: 100 Prestige
Public Salvage Storage: 100 Prestige
Empowerment Tables: 100 Prestige

For each item you have in your base of the above its 100 prestige.

This means the max rent most bases will have is approximately 2000 (as there is no reason to keep lower level empowerment stations aside from decoration)


Vaults do NOT have a prestige upkeep associated with them, so most will truly only see 1900 rent per cycle.

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The empowerments are actually based on what tier level they are
Tier 1 - 100 upkkep
Tier 2 - 200 upkeep
Tier 3 - 300 upkeep
So to those who like to have all 3 of each type(not neccesary) the tier 3 has all that #1 and #2 have)
It would be 600 upkeep for all 3 empowerment stations x 2 if you want all 6-( tech and arcane)

I believe our children are our future and I reflect on the lessons and values we taught them.
I believe the world has many real Villains,what we need are more Heroes.
*May you all be a hero in someone's life.*

 

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Assumptions #1 &2: a level 20ish character with 5 million that [u]might have[u] gotten a [u]bit lucky[u].

Unless you dedicate to using the market, it is unlikely that is possible without a sugar daddy.


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Let me share my genius market strategy with you.

Before I log off for the night, see how full recipe and salvage stores are getting. If they're over 2/3 full, dump everything on the market for 1 inf.

THAT'S IT. Occasionally I may get all fancy and sell common salvage for 333, uncommon for 1111, and rare for 5555.

My genius market strategy is acknowledging that the market exists at all, which in my experience is more of a sticking point for veteran players.

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Let's assume an SG of 8 people is getting to level 20 from level 10, where they established their SG.

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Assumption #3. Size of group.

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8 is a bad size for a minimalist SG? It's half the size where you get free prestige for adding more people, I figure that's reasonable.

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But let's assume they always team up.

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Assumption #4. Possible, but not always the case.

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This effectively doubles XP relative to other measures of advancement, so that's 1,000 approximate minions per character.

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Assumption #5. Literally pulling numbers out of your <censored>. At this point the point behind your post is lost.

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Uh, no. When you team up with 8 people, the XP is... Huh. Apparently I misremembered. Anyway, there's a teaming XP bonus. Which is a factor of 2.5 instead of a factor of 2. Okay, so that's 800 scale minions.

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And let's assume they always play with rested XP on. 500 approximate minions per character.


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Assumption #6. Making up numbers again.

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Yes, but these are deliberately conservative assumptions. There's no way a team could use rest XP to get less than, well, 400 scale minions. (actually 3200 minions but since salvage is spread around, 400 scale minions.)

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So, by level 20, each member of this SG will have acquired 40 salvage, for a total of 320 salvage.

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Assumption #7. Random Number Generator.


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Binomial random distribution probability -- p=0.8, n=500 -- variance = np(1 - p) = 40(.92) = 36.8 -- standard deviation = square root of variance = square root of 36.8 = 6 and a tiny bit -- standard error of measurement = SD / sample size = .75

Yes. It's within the bounds of probability that the SG as a whole could wind up with one or two pieces more or less, 5% of the time.

(if I run it with p=0.1 n=4000 the numbers are ever so slightly higher)

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Of this about 11 pieces will be rare, 56 uncommon, and the remainder (253) common.


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Assumption #8. Random Number Generator.


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Similar small standard errors. We're looking at a sample size of over 3000 for this entire SG of 8, and that absorbs a lot of random into the comforting embrace of the normal curve.

I mean, unless the devs have coded the RNG to hate this particular supergroup. In which case, why are we even bothering?

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Now let's look heroside at all the places a level 20 character could go. Remember, to get a beacon you need to explore the heck out of a zone, which means being able to survive in it.

Atlas Park, Galaxy City, Perez Park, The Hollows, Kings Row, Steel Canyon, Skyway City, Talos Island, Independence Port, Striga Isle, Boomtown, Faultline. And Pocket D, I guess. That's 7 teleporters' worth of locations. What the heck, round it up to 8.

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Assumption #9. Hero side by level 20 on my controller, I can get PI which is a very safe short swim to the single unguarded badge, Founders a tiny bit tricky but possible, Brickstown very easy with flight, Terra Volta is 20+. The only ones locked are the hazard zones.

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Okay, I'll give on this one. A supergroup will probably not be able to build the 9 or 10 telepads it needs to transport to every possible zone just by getting 8 members from level 10 to level 20.

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Assuming they care about what kind of telepad they have, and that salvage winds up evenly distributed among the types, they will have 1 piece of their desired rare salvage, 4 of their desired uncommon salvage, and 20 of each needed common salvage.

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Assumptions #10 & 11. Random Number Generator.


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Assuming people specifically want a tech or arcane telepad is not RNG related, it's another one of those hyperconservative assumptions that will probably be more relaxed.

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The question then becomes, how much of the unneeded 10 rare, 52 uncommon, and 221 common salvage will they need to cash in to get 7 rares and 4 uncommons?

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Assumption #12. Assuming that people will want to use the market.


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Yes, I am assuming people who want telepads and have done the research needed to acquire the exploration badges for all the beacons will also understand and use all the existing in-game avenues for obtaining the salvage needed to build their telepads.

I do not think a large fraction of the playerbase is, shall I say, ideologically opposed to the marketplace?

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Villainside a level 20 only has to worry about going to maybe 4 places, potentially 5, so they're only looking at cashing that giant chunk of commons in for another couple rares.

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Assumption #13. I can get all the beacons except the RWZ villain side at level 1, but I generally wait till level 2 so that I can get to level 3 on my stalker just by explore beacon xp. I've done it several times.


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Yes, and all the villain beacons need a whole 4 teleporters. Maybe 5 for the RWZ? Half heroside.

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Of course, this all assumes they've got enough prestige to buy and power 4 rooms, 8 teleporters, and 13 beacons, which I don't have numbers for but which I believe may not be a very reasonable assumption.

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Assumptions #14.

I repeat that is far too many assumptions.

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Okay, you want facts? You want facts? I'll give you facts.

The first villaingroup I founded right at the start of the server had 5 guys, all of us fair newbies to CoV and the whole salvage dealie. And all we could afford was a room with one telepad. After a couple more weeks we could buy the power and control to plunk down another.

To go to different zones we all had base-editor privileges so we could swap out the beacons for other beacons, because we didn't have enough prestige to build a big enough support architecture to actually power and control more than 2 telepads and 4 beacons.

That, not salvage, was the limiting factor in how much we could expand.

And it still will be.

8 people will not be able to build a giant teleporter mega-complex with the salvage they collect just from going from level 10 to level 20. They also may not even collect the salvage to build even 1 telepad if the RNG takes an epic dump on them and they are all somehow ideologically opposed to the marketplace, or they just delete all the salvage they ever get, or perhaps their accounts are hacked and raided by mad geniuses in China with way too much time on their hands.

But you know what? It's not somehow an indictment of the system if some complete newbies to the whole supergroup system can't somehow get the wonder perfect base that's everything they want after a few nights of play. When did that start becoming a reasonable baseline? I was just trying to demonstrate that they could actually get pretty close to wonder perfect, and not even if they played smart, just if they played productively, under the worst possible salvage drop conditions they might create for themselves unwittingly.

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I don't know if anyone else has noticed this....
First, I took as much out of storage as I could before copying to test and when I converted all this base salvage to brainstorms and then to rare invention salvage I ended up with an enormous amount of rare salvage, a lot of it currently very valuable on the market. Yes, it is totally random what you get when you convert but I think I ended up with 10 to 15 Hamidon Goos. Now, my first question is what am I going to do with all this invention salvage? After using the little bit I need to make stuff for the base, do I sell it and distribute the cash to SG members? I certainly don't want to pay upkeep for the number of salvage racks I would need to store it, and I doubt I am the only one who will see it this way. Second, and more importantly, what is this going to do to the market? There is going to be a flood of rare salvage as everyone converts their base salvage to invention salvage. This is pure speculation, but I see the prices for all rare salvage going through the floor, at least for a while. If this happens, getting the salvage needed to craft base items will not be a huge issue as everything will be cheap(er). On the other hand, rare salvage drops will become "less exciting" and definitely less profitable. Not that I have an issue with this, I never made a whole lot of influence from salvage drops anyway, but this could greatly impact lowbies that don't have any cash to begin with. Just curious what everyone else thinks about this.....

 

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I doubt there will be a flood of rares. With dual builds coming any rares not used for base building will find a home making IOs.

 

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UPDATED NEWS:

Items in personal inventory will be placed at the reduced price after the issue goes live. Merry Christmas!

@PlasmaStream
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UPDATED NEWS:

Items in personal inventory will be placed at the reduced price after the issue goes live. Merry Christmas!

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Now if only my SG had the badges to actuyl craft the stuf fnow

 

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UPDATED NEWS:

Items in personal inventory will be placed at the reduced price after the issue goes live. Merry Christmas!

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This works out well for the Turbine & Mega-Monitor I've had in inventory for awhile.

 

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UPDATED NEWS:

Items in personal inventory will be placed at the reduced price after the issue goes live. Merry Christmas!

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I still don't think I'm going to be able to afford to upgrade my bases, even with the changes. I'm looking for a basic workshop/teleport solution (maybe two enhancement bins, two salvage bins, and a worktable, and three teleport pads per base). Right now I'm sitting on about 430k prestige in one group and about 200k in the other.

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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

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Ok, I have tried searching for it, but I can't find the new recipe for the AES. Anyone have it?

Edit - Nevermind, I found it. I hate the search function.

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If I upgrade my base plot now and this issue goes live this Tuesday, will I owe old rent or new rent?

Topher Wade lvl 50 Claws/Regen
The Crimson Heroes Society SG
Chaos Faction VG

Official Naturalized Citizen of Justice since 2007

 

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THIS JUST IN:

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<ul type="square">[*]Refunds for Base Plots, Base Rooms, and Base items will be issued if the price has changed. [*] Any crafted items stored on a character in personal inventory will charge the new prices.
[*] Players must access the base editor before a refund is generated.
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Want those discounts without replacing rooms and items? Just hit the base editor when I13 goes live. BAM!

 

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so any word if they are retro-refunding us the millions of prestige we spent on rent over the last 3 years on bases? it would add up to a very nice amount for those of us that are paying the 2-3 million rent everytime its due. anyone heard anything on this?


DEAR CHAMPION, DEAR CHAMPION, II Protectors of Neverland
"8 years Guys....What a Ride"
224 LvL 50's

 

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They didn't refund rent paid when they changed the system the first time, so I would not expect it now.

"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21

Guide to Base Teleporters

 

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NOTE:

To recoup Base plot costs, you can simply buy the same plot. I will add that to the top.

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Is there a guide to that somewhere....rebuilding? Or a good post? with several old bases that don't need changes or prestige, can/should I just leave thing alone?

seeing stuff like needing Hami Goo for telepads......

 

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NOTE:

To recoup Base plot costs, you can simply buy the same plot. I will add that to the top.

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Is there a guide to that somewhere....rebuilding? Or a good post? with several old bases that don't need changes or prestige, can/should I just leave thing alone?

seeing stuff like needing Hami Goo for telepads......

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They took out the Hami goo for telepads.

In order to recoup cost differences now, all you need to do is go into the editor after issue 13 hits.

"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21

Guide to Base Teleporters

 

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NOTE:

To recoup Base plot costs, you can simply buy the same plot. I will add that to the top.

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Is there a guide to that somewhere....rebuilding? Or a good post? with several old bases that don't need changes or prestige, can/should I just leave thing alone?

seeing stuff like needing Hami Goo for telepads......

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They took out the Hami goo for telepads.

In order to recoup cost differences now, all you need to do is go into the editor after issue 13 hits.

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great news on both fronts, thanks. The more I read, the more I don't see any reason to be concerned...sounds like we'll get a big 'refund' and we already have prestige banked....we do use a buttload of storage though, so we will see what comes out in the wash.

 

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In order to recoup cost differences now, all you need to do is go into the editor after issue 13 hits.

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When did they make that change? In Sunstorm's OP he just says someone has to enter the base. Doesn't mention the editor at all.

 

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It's not a change, it's a discrepancy. We're not sure which is correct. The patch notes say "enter the editor" and Sunstorm said "Just enter the base, not the editor".

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I found a base I could verify this with. The prestige refund is done when you enter the base, not the base editor.

 

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It's not a change, it's a discrepancy. We're not sure which is correct. The patch notes say "enter the editor" and Sunstorm said "Just enter the base, not the editor".

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I found a base I could verify this with. The prestige refund is done when you enter the base, not the base editor.

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In that case, I've dropped a note into the Scrub thread. I've consolidated other suggestions I've seen in the same thread, as well.

Prophecy & Dreams | Prophecy & Dreams Discussion

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I am seriously delinquent in doing my own research I'm afraid - been doing r/l construction for upcoming family addition. So, didn't get to make use of my beta invite this time.

Question: Does anyone know if there are any last-minute changes to the rent rate now that the issue has gone live?

Second question: Are we now allowed to have more than 18 storage units or did all the limits remain the same? Did not see a ref to it, but if teleporter amounts changed, I figured anything's possible.

Thanks!

~Elizabeth

Leave the saving of the world to the men? I don't think so! -Elastigirl

The SOLUS Foundation - http://www.solusfoundation.com
A Liberty-based bastion, seven years strong.

 

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Thanks, Plasma!

Leave the saving of the world to the men? I don't think so! -Elastigirl

The SOLUS Foundation - http://www.solusfoundation.com
A Liberty-based bastion, seven years strong.

 

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gumble I've gone from ZERO rent to owing 1600 prestige. so &lt;BEEP&gt; it. I'm leaving the game as soon as they turn off the power.