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Dear Positron,
Good afternoon. Thank you for responding to our questions for more information about Issue 13.
And on a side note. Please fix the store so that I can purchase Booster Packs for other players as gifts. I'd like to purchase 10 or so of these for my friends that also play. Plus I'd like to give you my money to help with the development of my favorite game. However, since I only have 1 account and I can't very well purchase 10 Cyborg Packs for 1 account then I guess that I'll have to keep the money that I would have liked to have given to your company.
P.S. Rocket Pack costume items please.
Thank You.
- Peregrine Falcon
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Dear Peregrine Falcon,
Thank you for your feedback. We would LOVE to come up with a way for players to "gift" our Super Boosters to other players. The real problem with this lies in credit card fraud. It may seem like a simple problem, but it's really very complex. Once we have a workable solution that Billing and Customer Service can sign off on, we will allow players to gift Microtransactions post haste.
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I know SOMEONE probably thought of it already, but couldn't the micro's be turned into a "code" Like I used when i did my normal -> GvE upgrade(for the extras and time).
That way , people would buy the CODE, and apply to WHICHEVER account they wanted(upto and including sending it in-game as a reward to someone?)
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Dear Positron,
Good afternoon. Thank you for responding to our questions for more information about Issue 13.
And on a side note. Please fix the store so that I can purchase Booster Packs for other players as gifts. I'd like to purchase 10 or so of these for my friends that also play. Plus I'd like to give you my money to help with the development of my favorite game. However, since I only have 1 account and I can't very well purchase 10 Cyborg Packs for 1 account then I guess that I'll have to keep the money that I would have liked to have given to your company.
P.S. Rocket Pack costume items please.
Thank You.
- Peregrine Falcon
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Dear Peregrine Falcon,
Thank you for your feedback. We would LOVE to come up with a way for players to "gift" our Super Boosters to other players. The real problem with this lies in credit card fraud. It may seem like a simple problem, but it's really very complex. Once we have a workable solution that Billing and Customer Service can sign off on, we will allow players to gift Microtransactions post haste.
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I know SOMEONE probably thought of it already, but couldn't the micro's be turned into a "code" Like I used when i did my normal -> GvE upgrade(for the extras and time).
That way , people would buy the CODE, and apply to WHICHEVER account they wanted(upto and including sending it in-game as a reward to someone?)
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They have mentioned that they are looking into possible ways for people to be able to gift the packs to others.
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Ok look. I'm not sure what people are expecting with this mission editor thing. But what I strongly suspect we are getting is a way to GENERATE missions that are very similar in scope to what we get in-game now. Yes we can edit the text, yes we can probably import major NPCs and determine what type of mission objectives there are. Unfortunately, from the last things we've heard about the editor, major customization is going to be impossible. Has that changed since the last info we got? Who knows...but I'm thinking not.
The other thing I want to say about this missions editor feature is that I'm finding it hard to get excited over players creating the same kinds of missions that the devs have been creating for over 4 years. I don't have any doubts that our community can produce some great story ideas and fiction for their missions. My problem is that those missions will still boil down to: Enter through front door, defeat a truckload of improbably placed enemies, click on glowy(s)/and or escort NPC to door.
If the Devs had first brought out an issue that added new types of things to do in missions like avoid or disable traps, investigative puzzles, security espionage and alternate missions paths and arcs to name a few, and THEN had announced this mission editor with more customizable options along with everything else I mentioned above, I'd be doing backflips.
As it stands now, if I'm going to be doing the same types of things I do in regular missions now but with a lesser reward, what exactly am I getting out of them aside from a potentially well written piece of player fiction?
What I'm trying to get at is that the basic mission system in the game needs to be evolved first before player created missions using that same structure become exciting.
This is an MMO. Its not a game like Neverwinter Nights, for example. You won't be able to import your own art assets, create new tilesets from scratch or change the way powers work even.
I usually try to look at things from all sides, but I'm having a hard time seeing how this feature is the only major thing coming with Issue 13. That's not me crying DOOM! I'm gonna keep on playing because I love this game, I just hope something else big is on the issue 13 list that has yet to be made public.
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Couldn't agree more!!!
I think one of the reasons they are being so tight lipped over the architecture aspect is that they are probably working on some new features that they normally don't have and are working to perfect before announcing it. the system they use to make missions will likely be EXACTLY like the system we will get our hands on with perhaps a different user interface.
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
My feeling on the mission creator, and why we don't have more information on it, is that the mission creator as it is currently coded probably bears very little to the discussion threads about it. You can read threads all over the forums that are expecting the ability to make things that drip with awesomesauce. If it turns out that the mission creator is released and all you can do is enter:
Enemy Group
Tileset
Boss Says What When Encountered
Enemy Spawns Say What (3 Options):
Ambush Spawns Say What:
Then I think you'll have open revolt on the forums and a serious number of cancellations. In short, I think the hype has far, far surpassed any hope of this feature being accepted on release. There is literally no way that the mission creator could ever meet the expectations of even half the forum.
What should have been a complete win for CoX has become a lose-lose due to poor communication leading to false expectations.
If it is a failure it will be a shame. The fact that you can't even reskin existing NPCs for your missions sucks. They said they want to give us that option, but just the fact that it isn't an option tells me that the mission creator is not going to be as great as many are hoping. I think it would have been great to have a poll or open forum about what we the players would want to see in a mission creator BEFORE it was made. Now they are seeing what we really want and expect from it on these forums and it seems like they are scrambling to try to make it better. I gotta agree with Duuk, because this has such ridiculous potential of being the best thing added to this game since creation...the bar couldn't be any higher. If they fail to deliver a great system, there will be a huge backlash.
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Ok look. I'm not sure what people are expecting with this mission editor thing. But what I strongly suspect we are getting is a way to GENERATE missions that are very similar in scope to what we get in-game now. Yes we can edit the text, yes we can probably import major NPCs and determine what type of mission objectives there are. Unfortunately, from the last things we've heard about the editor, major customization is going to be impossible. Has that changed since the last info we got? Who knows...but I'm thinking not.
The other thing I want to say about this missions editor feature is that I'm finding it hard to get excited over players creating the same kinds of missions that the devs have been creating for over 4 years. I don't have any doubts that our community can produce some great story ideas and fiction for their missions. My problem is that those missions will still boil down to: Enter through front door, defeat a truckload of improbably placed enemies, click on glowy(s)/and or escort NPC to door.
If the Devs had first brought out an issue that added new types of things to do in missions like avoid or disable traps, investigative puzzles, security espionage and alternate missions paths and arcs to name a few, and THEN had announced this mission editor with more customizable options along with everything else I mentioned above, I'd be doing backflips.
As it stands now, if I'm going to be doing the same types of things I do in regular missions now but with a lesser reward, what exactly am I getting out of them aside from a potentially well written piece of player fiction?
What I'm trying to get at is that the basic mission system in the game needs to be evolved first before player created missions using that same structure become exciting.
This is an MMO. Its not a game like Neverwinter Nights, for example. You won't be able to import your own art assets, create new tilesets from scratch or change the way powers work even.
I usually try to look at things from all sides, but I'm having a hard time seeing how this feature is the only major thing coming with Issue 13. That's not me crying DOOM! I'm gonna keep on playing because I love this game, I just hope something else big is on the issue 13 list that has yet to be made public.
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Couldn't Agree More.
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Ok look. I'm not sure what people are expecting with this mission editor thing. But what I strongly suspect we are getting is a way to GENERATE missions that are very similar in scope to what we get in-game now. Yes we can edit the text, yes we can probably import major NPCs and determine what type of mission objectives there are. Unfortunately, from the last things we've heard about the editor, major customization is going to be impossible. Has that changed since the last info we got? Who knows...but I'm thinking not.
The other thing I want to say about this missions editor feature is that I'm finding it hard to get excited over players creating the same kinds of missions that the devs have been creating for over 4 years. I don't have any doubts that our community can produce some great story ideas and fiction for their missions. My problem is that those missions will still boil down to: Enter through front door, defeat a truckload of improbably placed enemies, click on glowy(s)/and or escort NPC to door.
If the Devs had first brought out an issue that added new types of things to do in missions like avoid or disable traps, investigative puzzles, security espionage and alternate missions paths and arcs to name a few, and THEN had announced this mission editor with more customizable options along with everything else I mentioned above, I'd be doing backflips.
As it stands now, if I'm going to be doing the same types of things I do in regular missions now but with a lesser reward, what exactly am I getting out of them aside from a potentially well written piece of player fiction?
What I'm trying to get at is that the basic mission system in the game needs to be evolved first before player created missions using that same structure become exciting.
This is an MMO. Its not a game like Neverwinter Nights, for example. You won't be able to import your own art assets, create new tilesets from scratch or change the way powers work even.
I usually try to look at things from all sides, but I'm having a hard time seeing how this feature is the only major thing coming with Issue 13. That's not me crying DOOM! I'm gonna keep on playing because I love this game, I just hope something else big is on the issue 13 list that has yet to be made public.
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Couldn't Agree More.
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What I've been saying for a while now as well. The game is not evolving and it is somewhat frustrating.
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If it is a failure it will be a shame. The fact that you can't even reskin existing NPCs for your missions sucks. They said they want to give us that option, but just the fact that it isn't an option tells me that the mission creator is not going to be as great as many are hoping. I think it would have been great to have a poll or open forum about what we the players would want to see in a mission creator BEFORE it was made. Now they are seeing what we really want and expect from it on these forums and it seems like they are scrambling to try to make it better. I gotta agree with Duuk, because this has such ridiculous potential of being the best thing added to this game since creation...the bar couldn't be any higher. If they fail to deliver a great system, there will be a huge backlash.
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The biggest letdown to me right now is that we apparently can't even import our own toons to use in the missions we make. This is due to the fact that NPC AI is so dumb it can't use a large number of our powers without special scripting. The AI can't use pet summons or any target location type powers.
When the mission creator was first announced, I immediately had an idea to create a series of missions revolving around 6 of my characters on Victory. The fact that I can't use them as NPCs in the game makes creating the story arc I want an impossibility.
So many questions come to mind that have yet to be answered. Like:
1) Can we place specific and editable spawns in certain places?
2) Can we trigger not just ambushes but spawns in certain places in response to specific objective completions from the player?
3) Can we do anything at all with AI scripting for NPCs?
4) Can we award Temp Powers of any kind for the duration of the mission only?
5) Can we create branching story arcs with multiple outcomes?
6) Can we actually edit the maps at all? Or can we simply select a tileset?
The list goes on, but those are a few of the things that people who want to DESIGN missions and story arcs are probably going to want control over. I don't see us getting even half of them.
For the past 5 or so issues this dev team has been on a roll. This seems like a really weird shift in direction and momentum. Maybe I'm being short sighted and can't see where they are going with this...but right now I see us, the players, getting a broken/incomplete feature that even the devs have to use tricks to manipulate to create the type of missions they make for us on a regular basis. That's not a step forward.
Judging from your questions, I'm wagering you'll be one of the people most let down by the Architect.
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Judging from your questions, I'm wagering you'll be one of the people most let down by the Architect.
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Probably. But I'm also willing to admit that maybe I've been spoiled by other games with moddable/user created content(Neverwinter Nights, Half Life 2, Unreal Tournament, Battlefield etc.).
Right now I don't see the point of a mission creator with this limited scope. I hope there is more to Issue 13.
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My feeling on the mission creator, and why we don't have more information on it, is that the mission creator as it is currently coded probably bears very little to the discussion threads about it. You can read threads all over the forums that are expecting the ability to make things that drip with awesomesauce. If it turns out that the mission creator is released and all you can do is enter:
Enemy Group
Tileset
Boss Says What When Encountered
Enemy Spawns Say What (3 Options):
Ambush Spawns Say What:
Then I think you'll have open revolt on the forums and a serious number of cancellations. In short, I think the hype has far, far surpassed any hope of this feature being accepted on release. There is literally no way that the mission creator could ever meet the expectations of even half the forum.
What should have been a complete win for CoX has become a lose-lose due to poor communication leading to false expectations.
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I completely agree. The poor communications and the DEVS stating i13 will be big has caused many people to have high expectations. Too high? Probably. I have seen posts from people stating they have 20 pages of material they have put together for an arc etc.
I think you really have to look at what we have as far as missions. Then think about the mission architect - will it give us the ability to do anything drastically different from what we have? Unlikely. So, it'll be more of the same tile sets, mob groups and bosses.
I13 should have focused on a new element to the game instead of the same old same old. Maybe it still will but we can only speculate.
Why not go with cross factions and breaking down the barriers that keep us from players. Why do we have co-op zones only after lvl 35? Why not after something like level 10 for another zone?
It seems they can go in so many directions but we kinda just get the same stuff. Anyway, since we have only some details on i13 there is room to add something new and cutting edge. 
for those who have created tons of story work in anticipation of making their own arcs, I hope you had fun doing that but in no way are you "let down" by expectations that are too high or too low. we haven't been given the full details of issue 13 yet so anything is pure conjecture baring its live debut.
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
I'll have to start taking tally of those upset so I can laugh when its released. I do recall Positron making a statement along the affects of:
"The Mission Architect is going to allow players to do much of what our own designers can do but with a much simpler and smoother ease-of-use and learning curve. Its so much like the original process in ability that we want to use it for ourselves, but that we can't do."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
PLEASE Give us some more I13 info this week Positron PLEASE
The topic title is a lie!
Slashman, we can't import our own heroes/villains into the missions because NPC AI is .....dumb, but if we have the abiliy to reskin existing NPCs, wouldn't that be good enough? In the future they could work out a system that lets us actually choose from a list of powers and lets us create NPCs for our missions, but at release I would completely happy if we just had the option to reskin. I'm not just talking bosses or AVs. I want to reskin everyone from the minions up to AVs. This will allow us to make our own enemy groups for a much more interesting and creative experience. If we are stuck using existing NPCs only....I personally will view it as a wash.
I'm picturing a system that allows you to pick two minions from a list of all minions for your mission's lvl range, then two Lieuts and two bosses. You would only be selecting the powers though because you can change the look of each one to create your own unique mobs. You would then reskin an AV/Hero as the top dog. Just imagine a group made up of Tsoo/Talsorian/Knifes of Artimitus/Red Caps....reskinned to look like pink fairy ninjas with wings! Ahhh the possabilities are endless. 
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Slashman, we can't import our own heroes/villains into the missions because NPC AI is .....dumb, but if we have the abiliy to reskin existing NPCs, wouldn't that be good enough? In the future they could work out a system that lets us actually choose from a list of powers and lets us create NPCs for our missions, but at release I would completely happy if we just had the option to reskin. I'm not just talking bosses or AVs. I want to reskin everyone from the minions up to AVs. This will allow us to make our own enemy groups for a much more interesting and creative experience. If we are stuck using existing NPCs only....I personally will view it as a wash.
I'm picturing a system that allows you to pick two minions from a list of all minions for your mission's lvl range, then two Lieuts and two bosses. You would only be selecting the powers though because you can change the look of each one to create your own unique mobs. You would then reskin an AV/Hero as the top dog. Just imagine a group made up of Tsoo/Talsorian/Knifes of Artimitus/Red Caps....reskinned to look like pink fairy ninjas with wings! Ahhh the possabilities are endless.
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the re-skinning thing by itself excites me. it opens up a whole lot of options for the types of enemies you can write. I for one will also be actively pro-actively playing and positively voting for many of these missions.
The faster the more advanced options players get to open MA, the faster we get better designed and written stories.
I'd like to see some more of the ruluaru (spelling?) and major enemy group overlords in non tf content or in just one or two arcs.. Currently we don't see enough of them. 
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Ok, we know.
We should have had said something more by now, about Issue 13. But
like all great architectural endeavors, Issue 13 is taking on a life of its own and were not quite ready to spill forth all the information.
So, just a quick note to say thanks for your patience, even though we know you may not really be patient. Trust us, its coming; were working on it and theres more great stuff coming (like you havent heard that before, but really, we mean it!)
Thanks!
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Radiation Melee/Radiation Armor for Brutes...?
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Slashman, we can't import our own heroes/villains into the missions because NPC AI is .....dumb, but if we have the abiliy to reskin existing NPCs, wouldn't that be good enough? In the future they could work out a system that lets us actually choose from a list of powers and lets us create NPCs for our missions, but at release I would completely happy if we just had the option to reskin. I'm not just talking bosses or AVs. I want to reskin everyone from the minions up to AVs. This will allow us to make our own enemy groups for a much more interesting and creative experience. If we are stuck using existing NPCs only....I personally will view it as a wash.
I'm picturing a system that allows you to pick two minions from a list of all minions for your mission's lvl range, then two Lieuts and two bosses. You would only be selecting the powers though because you can change the look of each one to create your own unique mobs. You would then reskin an AV/Hero as the top dog. Just imagine a group made up of Tsoo/Talsorian/Knifes of Artimitus/Red Caps....reskinned to look like pink fairy ninjas with wings! Ahhh the possabilities are endless.
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Well I concede that if we can reskin the NPCs then it would go a long way. Still, there are things that I'd like to have the system capable of that I'm getting the feeling it won't allow.
For instance, I doubt that we can go into the map for the mission and position things and critical encounters to make the story flow a certain way. We've been told that the map will be generated. We'll get a specific tileset but a random layout.
Look. That's just one thing. My main problem as I've stated is that 'creating missions like the Devs' isn't all that exciting a prospect. The missions they have been creating over the past 4 years are extremely repetitive and bland save for a few. I'll always love Mayhems, don't get me wrong, but for far too long we have been getting the same enter front door, kill X number of badguys and possibly escort an NPC somewhere.
The mission system the Devs use needs an upgrade...we don't need the exact same capability to create the same limited scope missions that they do. Granted, I'm sure it will satisfy people who just want to put their stuff out there but I'm not happy getting an already limited system with additional limits.
This is just my personal rant and I don't expect everyone to share my view. However, I've been waiting 4 years for the Dev team to add new and interesting stuff to do in our missions to make them more compelling and largely there's been nothing. Its still click the glowy. Or automatically disarm the bomb(never mind that the bombs have been set by a villain group with extremely high technical prowess...just pull out all the wires and voila). I'm saying they haven't upgraded their own mission creator. Why in the heck are they trying to give us one that is in the same state(or worse since we can't write scripts or alter code to get around the limitations)?
Go to any game forum on the net and bring up COX and you'll hear the same kinds of things. 'Are their any more tilesets? I can't stand seeing the same ones over and over.'
'Are there any different kind's of missions? The kill all the bad guys thing gets old.' Yes it does get old when you don't feel like the setting of the mission helps to drive home the story being told.
If missions and their lack of variety are arguably the weakest part of this game, why give us a system that will highlight just how limited it is? This is why I'm hoping that there are things to come that we haven't seen yet.
I don't mind being proven horribly wrong(I liked Inventions more than I thought I would), I just have the sinking feeling that this time I won't be.
I got the impression that there would be around 1,000 specific maps to work with. Not tilesets - specific maps. These maps all have anchors where things happen (paintings/wall safes can be places here here or here, desks/terminal/floor vaults can be placed here, here, or here). Similar anchors exist for hostages, and even the enemy spawns. I think you'll be able to populate those anchors specifically, so the placement of stuff on the map should be controlable be a designer. "I want some hellions over in this corner, and some skulls over there. The target painting glowy always appears back in that room at wall anchor 5 - right next to the thief-boss I've placed in the room."
You only use random maps to try to generate (IMO false) replayability, and with people creating missions in vast numbers, replayability of any single mission is not something the tool needs to preserve. Precision scripting is the only way mechanics will be able to back up story.
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Please fix the store so that I can purchase Booster Packs for other players as gifts. I'd like to purchase 10 or so of these for my friends that also play. Plus I'd like to give you my money to help with the development of my favorite game. However, since I only have 1 account and I can't very well purchase 10 Cyborg Packs for 1 account then I guess that I'll have to keep the money that I would have liked to have given to your company.
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This! I was also prevented from buying Cyborg and Wedding packs for friends as gifts. I estimate at least a 5% loss in revenue because of other people having the same problem!
Edit: Bah, I'm always late.
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I got the impression that there would be around 1,000 specific maps to work with. Not tilesets - specific maps. These maps all have anchors where things happen (paintings/wall safes can be places here here or here, desks/terminal/floor vaults can be placed here, here, or here). Similar anchors exist for hostages, and even the enemy spawns. I think you'll be able to populate those anchors specifically, so the placement of stuff on the map should be controlable be a designer. "I want some hellions over in this corner, and some skulls over there. The target painting glowy always appears back in that room at wall anchor 5 - right next to the thief-boss I've placed in the room."
You only use random maps to try to generate (IMO false) replayability, and with people creating missions in vast numbers, replayability of any single mission is not something the tool needs to preserve. Precision scripting is the only way mechanics will be able to back up story.
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I'm hoping that's the kind of thing we get.
My idea was to create a story arc which tells the story of several characters of mine to the player who experiences the missions from helping them complete certain objectives and acquire information etc. To tell the story the way I would want to though, requires me to have the ability to put those characters into the missions with their powers(or at least SOME of their powers to make it believable).
Other things I'd like to be able to do: Suppress all travel powers, suppress all stealth powers, put in base defenses and security networks to hack or control. Put an NPC inside a mission that its possible to interact with and talk to with branching dialogue options.
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Ok, we know.
We should have had said something more by now, about Issue 13. But
like all great architectural endeavors, Issue 13 is taking on a life of its own and were not quite ready to spill forth all the information.
So, just a quick note to say thanks for your patience, even though we know you may not really be patient. Trust us, its coming; were working on it and theres more great stuff coming (like you havent heard that before, but really, we mean it!)
Thanks!
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So, Positron, how about a "Happy Autumn" gift in the way of an issue 13 info release tomorrow? ....even just a smidgen of info <gives Positron sad puppy eyes,> 
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I have to say this sums up my feelings exactly.
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Thank you. I'm glad someone sees my point.