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Reading some of the reply I had to stop because all I read were:
Whine whine whine WHINE whine whine.
Just wonder if you all are like this in the real world, if you are then explains why the planet is going down the toilet.
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oh I fully agree Jutey. This whole issue has been nothing but whining since it was announced...
VEATs? "It's not nictus! WTF! Why can't my heroes wear arachnos costumes!?!"
Powerset Proliferation? "omg psi blasters, omg cold defender, WTF elec stalkers!?! = devs hate villain side clearly"
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The best part is watching people whine about whining. Priceless.
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People love to complain about complaining, it is one of humanity's stupider traits.
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People love to complain in general.
I and others are simply offering up our criticism of these changes. Isn't that part of what discussing the anouncement of these powers is all about? What would be the point of discussion if everyone was happy with the changes and just patted the devs on the back, while those who were unhappy simply remained silent? Those who don't like to hear criticism, and simply label such criticism 'whining' don't seem to understand the point of discussion boards/forums.
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“Why did Castle say no?!” At the time, he wanted each AT to keep certain sets so they were only found on that AT – Ninjitsu for Stalkers, Elec/Elec for Brutes, Ice/Ice for Tankers, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]I still support this, and hope it isn't off the table.
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wow u give blasters build up, but not doms? This game is way lopsided
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yes cause Doms don't get double damage from their inherent click
[/ QUOTE ]FYI build up does 100% more dmg + there new power inherit boost makes dmg more like 150 % + i forgot Aim doing i think 50% more then that? for a total of 200% hmm....... do they need a power boost hmm..... YEA!!!!!!!!! 
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dont forget doms teeny weeny damage modifiers of 0.75 for melee and 0.65 for range, their teeny weeny damage cap, the fact that domination is 75% damage buff not double damage 
(oh and aim is 62.5% damage buff on blasters 
)
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“Why did Castle say no?!” At the time, he wanted each AT to keep certain sets so they were only found on that AT – Ninjitsu for Stalkers, Elec/Elec for Brutes, Ice/Ice for Tankers, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]I still support this, and hope it isn't off the table.
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May as well be. Corruptors have nothing unique any longer. neither is Elec/Elec strictly for Brutes. Brutes do have Energy Aura(lol) though
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
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Reading some of the reply I had to stop because all I read were:
Whine whine whine WHINE whine whine.
Just wonder if you all are like this in the real world, if you are then explains why the planet is going down the toilet.
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oh I fully agree Jutey. This whole issue has been nothing but whining since it was announced...
VEATs? "It's not nictus! WTF! Why can't my heroes wear arachnos costumes!?!"
Powerset Proliferation? "omg psi blasters, omg cold defender, WTF elec stalkers!?! = devs hate villain side clearly"
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The best part is watching people whine about whining. Priceless.
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People love to complain about complaining, it is one of humanity's stupider traits.
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People love to complain in general.
I and others are simply offering up our criticism of these changes. Isn't that part of what discussing the anouncement of these powers is all about? What would be the point of discussion if everyone was happy with the changes and just patted the devs on the back, while those who were unhappy simply remained silent? Those who don't like to hear criticism, and simply label such criticism 'whining' don't seem to understand the point of discussion boards/forums.
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Many of them do not, no, and for others a few of it breaks down into a few reasons I have detailed here.
Many people will use the OMG, you have not seen the numbers excuse which is in itself erroneous because Blasters are an attack heavy AT. Psi will be increased in order to perform at the level of its brethren sets if only adequately so. Mind Manipulation is control heavy with some serious holds and a regen. It may not be Dominator impressive, but clearly, it is far from sub par. But Castle said, Castle also said the numbers were not final.
Some people honestly do not understand and/or care about the situation and see any content as beneficial to the game. These are some of the anti-whine crusade and merely serve to exacerbate the situation by telling people to [censored] as if they were the devs. These people can be from either side, so it is not just a hero thing.
In short no, you do not have the RIGHT to criticize. You MUST support the games content or else you are not being a team player. Personally, it pisses me off to see a set like this go to the Blasters when my DOM would love MM with the right tweaking, but eventually, you become so cynical you just stop carrying.
Unofficial Brownnoser of PWNZ
I kiss the Devs [censored]! -Perfect_Pain
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“Why did Castle say no?!” At the time, he wanted each AT to keep certain sets so they were only found on that AT – Ninjitsu for Stalkers, Elec/Elec for Brutes, Ice/Ice for Tankers, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]I still support this, and hope it isn't off the table.
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May as well be. Corruptors have nothing unique any longer. neither is Elec/Elec strictly for Brutes. Brutes do have Energy Aura(lol) though
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so do stalkers 
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recovery aura > the entire thermal set
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All the endurance in the universe won't debuff that AV the way Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor can. Just sayin'.
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thermal isn't needed to debuff. Rad, cold, dark, poison, traps, and sonic can debuff more effectively than thermals can. People don't invite thermals for debuffs, they invite them for shields/forge/mez protection and heals
I'm pretty sure while thermal will thematically be cool for controllers, it will still get dwarfed by empathy as far as overall effectiveness.
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Yes so sad that people don't realize this, some of them not all because they're still trying to find an excuse for the devs not porting over empathy..
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recovery aura > the entire thermal set
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All the endurance in the universe won't debuff that AV the way Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor can. Just sayin'.
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thermal isn't needed to debuff. Rad, cold, dark, poison, traps, and sonic can debuff more effectively than thermals can. People don't invite thermals for debuffs, they invite them for shields/forge/mez protection and heals
I'm pretty sure while thermal will thematically be cool for controllers, it will still get dwarfed by empathy as far as overall effectiveness.
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Yes so sad that people don't realize this, some of them not all because they're still trying to find an excuse for the devs not porting over empathy..
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I agree. Porting Thermal over to Heroes is redundant, because Empthy is better. However,, particularly in PvP, Heroes will now benefit form BOTH Therm and Emp buffs, with villains stuck with the lesser of the two.
I really don't mind any of the other Power Proliferation stuff, especially with more to come. I'm sure Psy Blasters will be nerfed into oblivion during Beta. VEATs will be awesome. It's all positive for me, except for villains losing their unique healer and giving Heroes two
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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I'm guessing the numbers behind the Psi/Mind powers will be tweaked downward to balance this set.
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Fixed that for you.
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Thanks Castle!
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Reading some of the reply I had to stop because all I read were:
Whine whine whine WHINE whine whine.
Just wonder if you all are like this in the real world, if you are then explains why the planet is going down the toilet.
[/ QUOTE ]
oh I fully agree Jutey. This whole issue has been nothing but whining since it was announced...
VEATs? "It's not nictus! WTF! Why can't my heroes wear arachnos costumes!?!"
Powerset Proliferation? "omg psi blasters, omg cold defender, WTF elec stalkers!?! = devs hate villain side clearly"
[/ QUOTE ]
The best part is watching people whine about whining. Priceless.
[/ QUOTE ]
People love to complain about complaining, it is one of humanity's stupider traits.
[/ QUOTE ]
People love to complain in general.
I and others are simply offering up our criticism of these changes. Isn't that part of what discussing the anouncement of these powers is all about? What would be the point of discussion if everyone was happy with the changes and just patted the devs on the back, while those who were unhappy simply remained silent? Those who don't like to hear criticism, and simply label such criticism 'whining' don't seem to understand the point of discussion boards/forums.
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Many of them do not, no, and for others a few of it breaks down into a few reasons I have detailed here.
But Castle said, Castle also said the numbers were not final.
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Agreed. I think anyone who still thinks after CASTLE's statements in this thread that they are just going to port stuff over without making changes when necessary is smoking crack.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Thanks for answering these questions!
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===========
"So, Lighthouse, any chance of us finding out what-all powers are in Mental Manipulation?” – Bitt Player
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I'm, uh, interested to see how all those powers might be toned down, because if they haven't been, that sounds like the best Blaster secondary ever created, by a factor of 5.
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“WHY NO EMP FOR CORR?” – ELF_STALKER
Empathy isn’t a villainous trait, generally speaking.
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I'd like to introduce you to a Marvel villain named Empath.
Sure, his powers don't work the same as Empathy in City of Heroes, so perhaps Linderman is a better example.
You may argue "oh, but those are only two villains among many". My response would be, "and how many 'healer' heroes are there in superhero fiction?" I don't think there are all that many more than there are villains.
I love you guys, but powers do not a villain make. Villainy is about how you use your powers (if you have any), not about what powers you have. Healing other villains specifically so that they can continue committing crimes and atrocities is evil.
It's great that you plan to give a similar set to villains with a different theme, so I'm not exactly complaining, here. I'm just not buying the "Empathy isn't for villains" line, and I think it's really weird for a group of people that I know are superhero fans and read comics to be saying something like this. Empathy, as the human trait, may not be a villainous trait, but I don't think that's what the powerset represents unless I missed that somewhere in the set's description.
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Castle said, “No, never!” and Positron said, “Yes, do it!” In the end, the decision of which sets to give everyone bounced back and forth multiple times. The next question is, “Why did Castle say no?!” At the time, he wanted each AT to keep certain sets so they were only found on that AT – Ninjitsu for Stalkers, Elec/Elec for Brutes, Ice/Ice for Tankers, etc. Ultimately, that concept was set aside later in the process, but some aspects of it remained in the initial pass of Proliferation.
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I hope that concept is abandoned completely. I will never understand why you'd want to restrict character concepts like that. What's so wrong about allowing someone to play a hero (Tanker or Scrapper) with melee electric powers?
EDIT: I misread that as "that concept was set aside for later". If you have already set it aside, please ignore my comment, and replace it with "hurrah!"
Sorry that I'm only elaborating in the negative, the rest of the answers were great!
[/ QUOTE ]QFTMFT
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Any Red name wanna come out and let us know if Elec/Elec tank is going to be added? Lady_Dee
Castle said, No, never! and Positron said, Yes, do it! In the end, the decision of which sets to give everyone bounced back and forth multiple times. The next question is, Why did Castle say no?! At the time, he wanted each AT to keep certain sets so they were only found on that AT Ninjitsu for Stalkers, Elec/Elec for Brutes, Ice/Ice for Tankers, etc. Ultimately, that concept was set aside later in the process, but some aspects of it remained in the initial pass of Proliferation.
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Does this mean, 100%, ice armor/ice melee will go to brutes, scrappers,a nd stalkers? broadsword, katana, regen, SR and ninjitsu will go to tankers?
Is there ANY taboos? (I ask more about balance issues).
I know about balance concerns, eg. energy melee for scrappers, kin and empathy for masterminds, etc.
But does that mean:
1. It wont happen
2. It will happen
3. It will happen, with massive changes
4. We have no clue on the above sets
Any chance to add the faq what is planned to be ported, or what is NOT planned to be ported?
Thanks!
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
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Sure, his powers don't work the same as Empathy in City of Heroes, so perhaps Linderman is a better example.
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As far as I'm concerned this is pretty much a conceptual coffin nail in any argument that empaths aren't evil
Linderman is more or less a one man refutation of that whole position.
Sure call it something else... change absorb pain for another power, but basically... same set, just used for different goals.
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He can heal people! Clearly he must be an Empath!
[/ QUOTE ]That's all he can do with his powers. He can't make things with them just restore living organic matter. sounds like empathy to me. Minus absorb pain ect.
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wow wish devs cared about vils giving them crap powers and let me guess the vil epics will suck too?
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Good post. Looking forward to your next.
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lol
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Many of them do not, no, and for others a few of it breaks down into a few reasons I have detailed here.
Many people will use the OMG, you have not seen the numbers excuse which is in itself erroneous because Blasters are an attack heavy AT. Psi will be increased in order to perform at the level of its brethren sets if only adequately so. Mind Manipulation is control heavy with some serious holds and a regen. It may not be Dominator impressive, but clearly, it is far from sub par. But Castle said, Castle also said the numbers were not final.
Some people honestly do not understand and/or care about the situation and see any content as beneficial to the game. These are some of the anti-whine crusade and merely serve to exacerbate the situation by telling people to [censored] as if they were the devs. These people can be from either side, so it is not just a hero thing.
In short no, you do not have the RIGHT to criticize. You MUST support the games content or else you are not being a team player. Personally, it pisses me off to see a set like this go to the Blasters when my DOM would love MM with the right tweaking, but eventually, you become so cynical you just stop carrying.
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I don't care about your or others' complaining. I just wish you'd add some critical thought to your complaints. We have not seen the numbers. We do not know how well or poorly the Psi blaster sets will do. What we're telling you is to wait and see what the powers are all about then offer criticism.
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Many of them do not, no, and for others a few of it breaks down into a few reasons I have detailed here.
Many people will use the OMG, you have not seen the numbers excuse which is in itself erroneous because Blasters are an attack heavy AT. Psi will be increased in order to perform at the level of its brethren sets if only adequately so. Mind Manipulation is control heavy with some serious holds and a regen. It may not be Dominator impressive, but clearly, it is far from sub par. But Castle said, Castle also said the numbers were not final.
Some people honestly do not understand and/or care about the situation and see any content as beneficial to the game. These are some of the anti-whine crusade and merely serve to exacerbate the situation by telling people to [censored] as if they were the devs. These people can be from either side, so it is not just a hero thing.
In short no, you do not have the RIGHT to criticize. You MUST support the games content or else you are not being a team player. Personally, it pisses me off to see a set like this go to the Blasters when my DOM would love MM with the right tweaking, but eventually, you become so cynical you just stop carrying.
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I don't care about your or others' complaining. I just wish you'd add some critical thought to your complaints. We have not seen the numbers. We do not know how well or poorly the Psi blaster sets will do. What we're telling you is to wait and see what the powers are all about then offer criticism.
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But I wasn't complaining, and even said I no longer care. I simply envied the MM set. Lrn2 reading comprehension before addressing an adult next time.
Unofficial Brownnoser of PWNZ
I kiss the Devs [censored]! -Perfect_Pain
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Many people will use the OMG, you have not seen the numbers excuse which is in itself erroneous because Blasters are an attack heavy AT. Psi will be increased in order to perform at the level of its brethren sets if only adequately so. Mind Manipulation is control heavy with some serious holds and a regen. It may not be Dominator impressive, but clearly, it is far from sub par. But Castle said, Castle also said the numbers were not final.
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Personally I am expecting psi to perform as well as other blaster primaries in PvE or then there's something seriously amiss. After all, blasters recently got a boost because they were one of the lowest performing sets in PvE.
As to mind manipulation. I believe its control value is somewhat questionable. It has 1 immobilize, 1 kb, 1 confusion, 1 fear and 1 stun of which most likely all of them will be lt level.
The strengths that some other manipulations have come from stackability which is something that */psi lacks. Compare the stacking of holds that other sets can do either through primary alone (ice) or combination of primary and secondary ( */elec, */ice) and those lock the mob down completelly.
Fear? You may have to dip into presence pool to actually make it stackable immediatelly. Also in PvE this is rather weak as it allows enemies to attack back.
Confusion? Nothing in any of the blaster primaries or pool powers allow you to stack confusion.
Immobilize? This probably stacks on its own like for the other sets.
Disorient? Perhaps if you use stunning shot, beanbag or screech before launching psychic shockwave - that or use it before dreadful wail.
I don't think mind can be said to be very controllerish. Not when ice, elec and energy all have powers that are either more effective on their own, or more effective when stacked.
Oh and whoever said about blaster power animation normalization and snap shot. Seems I forgot that small lil' detail so yeah, snap shot and aimed shot recharges were increased and so was their damage.
This also made me wonder if subdue and subdual actually *are* different powers after all. Subdue already follows the 1.67 activation and 6s recharge where as, I believe, mental blast does not and tk blast activates faster.
Considering it has controller elements I would certainly consider MM controllerish. Is it overwhelming? More than likely not no, but I would not call it weak by any means. I am waiting for beta before leaning towards either side of the fence completely however.
Unofficial Brownnoser of PWNZ
I kiss the Devs [censored]! -Perfect_Pain
For the whole psi/psi Blaster issue it reminds me of a friend playing his completely IO'd out Sonic/EM monster.
The guy does an AMAZING amount of damage....but he takes a shot as well as Mister Glass. That is to say....it doesn't take much to KO him in PvE (PvP is another matter but I'm not touching that because it hasn't been balanced...ever).
On a sidenote to this: How many Blasters do you know that don't have their 3rd debt badge by level 35? If they don't then they team a lot or are being PL'd. To be a Blaster is to incur muchmuch debt.
So really, to me, it doesn't seem like much is changing with Blasters PvE side with Psi. They're still going to do a lot of damage using sets that most NPCs have little resisant too, but it's also going to cause them to die a lot from getting too much aggro.
Then there's also the fact that as far as we know the VEATs Widow-side are Psi-blasters as well.
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For the whole psi/psi Blaster issue it reminds me of Neutra playing his completely IO'd out Sonic/EM monster.
The guy does an AMAZING amount of damage....but he takes a shot as well as Mister Glass. That is to say....it doesn't take much to KO him in PvE (PvP is another matter but I'm not touching that because it hasn't been balanced...ever).
On a sidenote to this: How many Blasters do you know that don't have their 3rd debt badge by level 35? If they don't then they team a lot or are being PL'd. To be a Blaster is to incur muchmuch debt.
So really, to me, it doesn't seem like much is changing with Blasters PvE side with Psi. They're still going to do a lot of damage using sets that most NPCs have little resisant too, but it's also going to cause them to die a lot from getting too much aggro.
Then there's also the fact that as far as we know the VEATs Widow-side are Psi-blasters as well.
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Is anyone aware of when further information relating to the VEATS will be released?
Unofficial Brownnoser of PWNZ
I kiss the Devs [censored]! -Perfect_Pain
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Considering it has controller elements I would certainly consider MM controllerish. Is it overwhelming? More than likely not no, but I would not call it weak by any means. I am waiting for beta before leaning towards either side of the fence completely however.
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Erm, but by that standard most manipulations are controllerish.
Energy has stuns and kb
Electricity has sleep, hold, disorient, immobilize and kb
Ice has sleep, hold, immoblize and aoe knockdown
Devices, while not manipulation, has immobilize, disorient and kb
A lot of those have elements that are very effective and easily stackable by primaries or within the secondary itself (hold, stun).
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Considering it has controller elements I would certainly consider MM controllerish. Is it overwhelming? More than likely not no, but I would not call it weak by any means. I am waiting for beta before leaning towards either side of the fence completely however.
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Erm, but by that standard most manipulations are controllerish.
Energy has stuns and kb
Electricity has sleep, hold, disorient, immobilize and kb
Ice has sleep, hold, immoblize and aoe knockdown
Devices, while not manipulation, has immobilize, disorient and kb
A lot of those have elements that are very effective and easily stackable by primaries or within the secondary itself (hold, stun).
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That was never in dispute. Effectiveness aside MM is based on the concept of mental control, so I am not really sure why you are disqualifying it.
Unofficial Brownnoser of PWNZ
I kiss the Devs [censored]! -Perfect_Pain
a fairly easy 'fix' to the imbalancing factor of fears and confuses - put a little protection in some pool power buffs.
I suggest maneuvers gets a little confuse protection (enough to counter one application of a single target confuse such as Deceive), because leadership-led maneuvering seems like it would keep you organized enough not to be easily confused; and tough should get the same amount of fear protection (enough to protect you from one application of a fear power such as Touch of Fear). Tough guys don't scare easy
Approximately the same amount of protection that's in Acrobatics vs hold would be fine.
Since these are non travel power pools, and PvP'ers like to take two travel powers, there would be a sizable tradeoff for taking both.
Alternatively or in addition, give sonic Clarity (and/or the similar thermal buff, Thaw) a protection level from fear and/or confuse (maybe clarity gets confuse and thaw gets fear - protecting from being 'frozen' with fear ). That way villains and heroes both would get some protection at higher levels from an ally.
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He can heal people! Clearly he must be an Empath!
[/ QUOTE ]That's all he can do with his powers. He can't make things with them just restore living organic matter. sounds like empathy to me. Minus absorb pain ect.
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All he can do is heal. However Empaths in CoH can do much more than only heal. Your comparison falls apart right there.
Not only are Empaths NOT the only healers, Empaths are also not ONLY healers. Therefore the villain from Heroes is not NECESSARILY an Empath.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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wow u give blasters build up, but not doms? This game is way lopsided
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yes cause Doms don't get double damage from their inherent click
[/ QUOTE ]FYI build up does 100% more dmg + there new power inherit boost makes dmg more like 150 % + i forgot Aim doing i think 50% more then that? for a total of 200% hmm....... do they need a power boost hmm..... YEA!!!!!!!!!
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