Discussion: Changes to Task/Strike Force Missions
By
Acid_Reign,
Posted on: 2008-02-14 15:00 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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5. Merge the markets. Two other major MMOs, EQ2 and WoW, both allow the opposing factions to sell to the other. There's no reason to keep an artificial separation in CoH/V, especially since the entire process in this game is blind --
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There's a fundamental reason to never do this, well at least not for several years. CoH existed for such a long time before CoV that the economies are completely offsync. Typically everything in H costs and sells for about double what it does in V. If you merge the markets, the V side will be sucked DRY. And while it will shift some money to the V side, it would take a VERY long time for that to equalize. Sorry if that doesn't seem to make sense but if you've had any college-level Economics it should be clear.
As to the main point, COOL. I think this is a very fair and balanced change. It's not even going to be noticed by myself and all my friends. We play together, and if a couple people got disconnected by a storm or something, we'd STOP the TF and wait for them, even switching to alts and resuming another day. We're just casual like that. 
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- Decrease the number of Pool C recipe drops. Taking out the less desired recipes and putting them in another pool would increase the number of desired recipes and stabalize the market. The cost of some recipes are getting out of hand, and are already unreachable to the casual player. This change will only worsen that.
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This is something that should be done anyway. The TF recipe way pool is too large.
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Our SG is getting ready to do the Quarterfield TF starting in a few days,
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Now I'll feel like I can't drop without seriously hurting the team. I'll probably have to say I can't do the TF.
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So, why not arrange to complete the TF over a few days?
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We are doing it over a few days. That said, when my son wakes up in the night with nightmares, or my daughter wets the bed. Or when I have to suddenly run to the drug store for XYZ I have to leave for a chunk of time. There is a reality to being a gamer with a family. The family comes first. If I don't feel like I can react to these minor household emergencies (which when you have a 4 and a 6 year old your house is full of) then i can't do it.
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So, in reality you wouldnt have been able to contribute 100% to your team to begin with?!?
I'm missing something here I'm sure
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I'm guessing you don't have kids.
I would be giving absollutely 100% every moment I'm there. But like I said, if a little 6 year old boy wakes up in the night screaming (and I have one prone to that) then are you saying I should ignore him.
It looks like you are say either
1) I should ignore him
2) I should never do task forces.
Otherwise I can't give 100% all the time to the TF. This is a game I love to play, but it's still just a game. Family takes priority.
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There's a fundamental reason to never do this, well at least not for several years. CoH existed for such a long time before CoV that the economies are completely offsync. Typically everything in H costs and sells for about double what it does in V. If you merge the markets, the V side will be sucked DRY. And while it will shift some money to the V side, it would take a VERY long time for that to equalize. Sorry if that doesn't seem to make sense but if you've had any college-level Economics it should be clear.
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Have you looked at villain prices? Really?
This is all well intentioned and all, but I hope they don't expect a ton of people to run Positron or Quaterfield TFs in the near (or eternal) future.
DJs for The Cape Radio
Makes videos & podcasts about reviewing toys, covering conventions, and more at Vangelus.ca
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Task and Strike Forces are due for a major revamp, anyway. Instead of just trying to plug supposed exploits, how about the developers put some time on the schedule to:
1. Address the disparity in TFs between the hero and villain sides. Namely, give the villain side more SFs to balance the two sides.
2. Reduce the minimum number of players required for a TF or SF to a maximum of six. Only exception: STF and LRSF, since they are meant to be endgame challenges and "hardcore".
3. Rework most of the original TFs in CoH. Simply put, the majority are way too long. It would be one thing if each mission was unique and exciting but they are literally nothing more than door missions strung together, something you do throughout regular gameplay. Tacking an AV to the end of the last one doesn't make a TF special. When a player gets the reward at the end of a TF or SF, it should feel like something they truly earned, not just a gift for slogging through a bunch of stock door missions and AV. Some TFs are like this now. Most aren't. The Positron TF is rather embarrassing as the introduction to TFs in general. Bland and overlong. The Shadow Shard TFs are bursting with filler missions that do nothing but extend the length needlessly.
4. Consider allowing a TF or SF to recruit new players if they drop below the minimum number of players. Adjust rewards accordingly (ie. don't let a player that joins for just the last mission qualify for the end of TF reward).
5. Merge the markets. Two other major MMOs, EQ2 and WoW, both allow the opposing factions to sell to the other. There's no reason to keep an artificial separation in CoH/V, especially since the entire process in this game is blind -- you wouldn't know you were buying from a villain or hero, anyway.
I don't object to them trying to fix softloading but I think we are way past due on getting other just as important changes made to TFs. These should be the premier content of the game and as often as not, they are really nothing special at all.
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QFT. Every word.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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devs hate soloers.
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Dude.. what are you talking about? This change is HEAVEN for soloers. All you need is one friend to use a character they aren't playing to hold a spot to keep the TF up, then X number of folks to help start and then quit, and you get to solo 4/6/8-man spawns for an entire TF's worth of missions!
There's going to be LESS harassment of other players to pad!
This freaking rocks for soloists.
EDIT: C'mon devs, take the next step, let a single person start a TF on their own, and STILL set the spawns for whatever you decide SHOULD be running it.
Be well, people of CoH.
I call BS.
This isn't about RMT'ers. And don't make it out to be either. We're not [censored] stupid.
This is about people soft loading task forces and the devs apparently having nothing else to fix, decided that this was such a grave problem that it should be addressed.
How in ANY way could someone farm a task force spawned for one person? You've limited rewards to once every 3 hours, so it's not like this can be done over and over within a small time frame.
Yeah. Next time, don't treat us like idiots.
Edit: Not to mention the fact that the reward recipes have a GOOD chance of sucking [censored]. OH YAY! I got an orange recipe that doesn't work with any of my character's sets and sells for 10k on the market!!!! 
Or say 'afk kid issues'
We have never had a problem in our SG with someone being afk for that.
Just do it outside a mission, (or log off inside one) so that the team can move onto the next mission.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't required to do all six long and boring TF's to get an accolade I need.
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I think Synapse and Numina are hella fun.
But I agree some TF's need to be shortened now, or made easier...in order of priority Quarterfield, Positron, Psyche
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Sorry Devs, you didn't think this one through.
Minimum TF size for the Shadowshard TF's is EIGHT. So if *anyone* drops, your still stuck with their spawns. On the longest TF's in the game.
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I'm in agreement that the requirements for the Shard TFs (and perhaps a few other oddballs) need to be addressed & and in all likelihood probably will be shortly
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The only TF being farmed like this was the Cap au Diable TF, and it was the *only* thing keeping the Villain market afloat. Without it, the prices for Class C recipes are going to SKYROCKET.
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And how is that any different from the thread after thread PRIOR to this change, that stated that the Red Side Market was already dried up.
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In truth, you actually made farming EASIER for RMT farmers. All they need to do is start a Shadowshard TF, and than they have an *unlimited* amount of 8 man spawns at their disposal.
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WOOOOOOT!!! No more "will you anchor for me" requests!!! SWEET!!! However...
1. Most Farmers spawn maps for 6 & not 8 due to the abundance of Bosses
2. Most farmers use SJ (Inertial Redux) as their only mode of transportation... good luck with that in the Shard.
3. Most farmers prefer to NOT hop from mish door to mish door, because it wastes valuable farming time.
4. Most farmers prefer the large outdoor maps, not too many of those on the Shard TFs
5. They could log out of the game and then log back in to reset a map... but how is that any different than what they do already? This changes very little in that regard
If you are going to complain about something, pick a valid example... your "you actually made farming EASIER for RMT farmers" is complete BS.
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Please revert this change. In no way does this fix any percieved problems with Task Forces, and in fact makes a good deal of Task Forces(the ones that were *already* considered un-fun) significantly more difficult.
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Um Wrong... the softloading of the Villian Respec, LRTF, STF alone warrants this change.
And its not like the NPCS dont indicate that you need 'X' Number of players to run a TF
I'm loving this change 
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If you get multiple requests to anchor then lvl beyond 41 newb.
For the record I have easily completed RSF over 150 times( likely more) RSF teams dont softload if they are any good.
YOu know what totatlly (censor) up this game? People blathering their mouths about things of which they have no inkling.
Guess what Mr Tremere? If you BOTHERED to play redside youde not be so loud and assured in your opinions. I will guarantee a dead BM in less than 2 weeks if this change stays as is. Watch and see.
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devs hate soloers.
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Dude.. what are you talking about? This change is HEAVEN for soloers. All you need is one friend to use a character they aren't playing to hold a spot to keep the TF up, then X number of folks to help start and then quit, and you get to solo 4/6/8-man spawns for an entire TF's worth of missions!
There's going to be LESS harassment of other players to pad!
This freaking rocks for soloists.
EDIT: C'mon devs, take the next step, let a single person start a TF on their own, and STILL set the spawns for whatever you decide SHOULD be running it.
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it rocks for soloers the devs consider illegitimate, but ones they don't (well at least shouldn't since with this change they apparently do) consider illegitimate i.e. people like me who run TFs solo simply because I don't want to team with [censored] heads and prefer to run PvE solo if I can?
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- Decrease the number of Pool C recipe drops. Taking out the less desired recipes and putting them in another pool would increase the number of desired recipes and stabalize the market. The cost of some recipes are getting out of hand, and are already unreachable to the casual player. This change will only worsen that.
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This is something that should be done anyway. The TF recipe way pool is too large.
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I'm also wondering why theres 2 snipe sets in it at 50. At least make executioner's contract stop at 40, so you arent twice as likely to get a garbage snipe recipe as any other set.
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2. Reduce the minimum number of players required for a TF or SF to a maximum of six. Only exception: STF and LRSF, since they are meant to be endgame challenges and "hardcore".
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Just to quickly touch on this (since I'm on the Training Room with the Wedding Event, but reading here too) - most Task Forces and Strike Forces have a requirement of 4. I was looking over documentation on the list of SF/TF.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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Tasks
Spawns in Task Forces, Strike Forces and Trials will now spawn enemies for at least the minimum size required to start the Task Force, Strike Force or Trial.
For example, if a Task Force requires 4 players to start and a team of 8 start the Taskforce, the spawns will spawn for a team size of 8. If 4 players drop out of this Task Force leaving only 4 players left in the team, the spawns will adjust to a team size of 4. If 2 more players leave the Task Force leaving only 2 players, the spawns will remain at a team size of 4, since that is the minimum size required to start the Task Force.
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Such missions have always been intended to be group activities, hence the reason for the minimum group size requirement to start them. We feel that the group size requirements are certainly not onerous and that the need for grouping is a good dynamic in a social environment like City of Heroes. We want to continue to offer good rewards based on a group accomplishment through such missions and maintaining that requirement is the reason for this change.
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We know that finding out about this change after the patch is already live is not the ideal way to go about it. It was never our intent to hide or stealth this change out, it was simply lost in the volume of other changes spanning many months.
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I call shenanigans on this one. Once again, a stealth "oops" has made it into the game. Personally, I like to solo tfs with my scrapper, so I load in "x" number of accts, and I start them up. You are not making it any harder on "RMTers" you are making it EASIER. Who you are making it hard on is people who enjoy SOLOING, who enjoy CASUAL game play or those that enjoy PVP and want the accolades. Who are you to tell me - a paying customer - how I should play? As long as I am not breaking your EULA, leave me and the other paying customers alone.
I'd think about rescinding this change.
People who want recipes will have to farm TWICE as much to afford the recipes they want because I'm sure they certainly won't be doing tfs to get them.
Edited to add gleefully: First post after a red name (in 3 years! ha!).
Thanks, NC Soft, for closing my favorite game ever without warning and with plenty of life still left in it, and thus relieving me of the burden of EVER wanting to buy, try or even hear about another game from your company. Will my decision make a dent, or persuade them in anyway, shape or form? Nope, obviously not. Don't care. NC Soft is dead to me. ~ PsyFox
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To echo what others are saying not only does this help the RMT farmers by making it easier for them to farm,
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How does this help RMT Farmers?
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As repeated several times in the thread, it gives them access to a mission they can reset indefinitely, while only padding once.
It's a lazy fix (AGAIN OMFG NOWAI THE DEVS BEING LAZY WITH FIXES? LOL) if their goal (who knows) was to fix softloading.
How, long topic quite quickly. I'm far too lazy to read it, and now gonna add a long post on top of it... But I'll be happy when a redname answers some of the stuff, and admits the real reason for the change. (personally I go with softloading for MSTF and LRSF badges.... or possibly reward recipes).
I think poor Lighthouse was told by someone else what the reasoning was and posted about it. Unfortunately, that reason is a complete crapfest of fail. Inf farmers don't farm TF's... well, they didn't use to. They might now since they can reset their favorite TF mission for a team by logging off and back on. But don't worry, I'm sure the next fix will be if everyone from the TF logs off, the TF automatically fails.
Side note on this. I am not upset with this change at all. I usually like the idea of a harder challenge. Solo'ing the freakspec on my blaster was a ton of fun, and I could see solo'ing the TF's on him quite fun with this change.
I am quite annoyed with the sneaking it by (come on, that's what it was...) and then blaming it on the RMTers. What a total cop out.
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llotg's are already going for 75 mill redside. 75 mill. you think the average player can afford that? hell, lighthouse, i've been known to farm a bit (not gonna lie), and i can't afford those.
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here's a hint... then don't!!!
The prices are set by the buyers NOT the sellers. If noone is buying at a given listed price... then guess what... eventually the prices will drop
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No the prices wont drop because the people that were originally supplying the recipes now require more time to get them. THOSE people will be doing half the tf's they used to do in a day. THOSE people will want their drops for THEIR characters and be much less inclined to sell ANY. Supply and demand .. yea... .
I have a lotg recharge or a deci trimod villianside and I am wondering " shall I keep or sell?" I go look on the market and low and behold there are 85 -200 bids and NONE for sale. I'll name my 100 million + price.... tyvm.
Its a sellers market NOT a buyers market. YOu checked the prices on villan common salvage latelly?
Another scenario. After the doubles weekend I noticed a deficit in supply for rubies and fortunes. About 2 hours later salavage that had previouisly sold for 100 was going for 10-20k each. THATS called market pvp. You bet your [censored] people do it every day to make enfamy// influence. Buyers market my pretty pink cheeks.
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5. Merge the markets. Two other major MMOs, EQ2 and WoW, both allow the opposing factions to sell to the other. There's no reason to keep an artificial separation in CoH/V, especially since the entire process in this game is blind --
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There's a fundamental reason to never do this, well at least not for several years. CoH existed for such a long time before CoV that the economies are completely offsync. Typically everything in H costs and sells for about double what it does in V. If you merge the markets, the V side will be sucked DRY. And while it will shift some money to the V side, it would take a VERY long time for that to equalize. Sorry if that doesn't seem to make sense but if you've had any college-level Economics it should be clear.
As to the main point, COOL. I think this is a very fair and balanced change. It's not even going to be noticed by myself and all my friends. We play together, and if a couple people got disconnected by a storm or something, we'd STOP the TF and wait for them, even switching to alts and resuming another day. We're just casual like that.
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As Inspector 6 pointed out, when was the last time you actually looked at the markets? I think you have things switched around. LotGs hero side are going for like 30-40 million. Dont think ive ever seen one go for more then 45 million. Villain side, they are going for a minimum of 40 million, with a few going for upwards of 85 million. Everything is much more costly on villain side.
And onto your second point... so it doesn't effect you in anyway but you approve of the change? Can I consider this guy as grief'ing me? If it doesnt effect you, and it negatively effects others, why support it?
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
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It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't required to do all six long and boring TF's to get an accolade I need.
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I think Synapse and Numina are hella fun.
But I agree some TF's need to be shortened now, or made easier...in order of priority Quarterfield, Positron, Psyche
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Synapse - "Check out three warehouses". Lets try 1.
Numina could cut some of the pointless zone hunts. At least change Faultline's to Arachnos instead of Vaz, since it sucks to stand around with your thumb up your butt waiting for grey mobs to spawn at night...
Also, have TF contacts give their phone numbers from the start. This stuff is supposed to be important. I'm fairly sure they can burn some anytime minutes.
Hopefully this will start a real discussion on what sucks about task forces.
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2. Reduce the minimum number of players required for a TF or SF to a maximum of six. Only exception: STF and LRSF, since they are meant to be endgame challenges and "hardcore".
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Just to quickly touch on this (since I'm on the Training Room with the Wedding Event, but reading here too) - most Task Forces and Strike Forces have a requirement of 4. I was looking over documentation on the list of SF/TF.
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BS, LH.
let's walk through this together.
Posi: 3.
Synapse: 4.
Sis: 5.
Cit: 6.
Manti: 7.
Numina: 4.
Q: 8.
Sara: 8.
Augustine: 8.
Faathim: 8.
STF: 8.
LRSF: 8.
Cap, mantis, renault, mistral: all 4.
LGTF: 8.
The average is higher than 4.
@Death Conqueror
-Goal for 2011: Survive, stay alive, and continue to thrive.
This just shows how stupid the devs really are. I was unsure before, but now I am convinced.
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1. Most Farmers spawn maps for 6 & not 8 due to the abundance of Bosses
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Boosted boss XP/Inf means that they are now almost certainly time-efficient to classes that are good at farming.
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2. Most farmers use SJ (Inertial Redux) as their only mode of transportation... good luck with that in the Shard.
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Infinite jet packs through O-portal, check. (at least villain side, I assume)
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3. Most farmers prefer to NOT hop from mish door to mish door, because it wastes valuable farming time.
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They won't. They'll get one and log out to reset it.
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4. Most farmers prefer the large outdoor maps, not too many of those on the Shard TFs
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Plenty more large TFs available. All they need is ONE good map.
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5. They could log out of the game and then log back in to reset a map... but how is that any different than what they do already? This changes very little in that regard
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They (used to) have to get a team back together to re-spawn the map at their desired size. Now the game does it for them.
Note that this means previously TF maps (other than the first, or maybe second if the first mish was fast) weren't farmable. Now they are. I'll bet I can find some sweet farm maps later on in TFs. Heck, the villain respec is a great lv 50 CoT indoor for AoE mission. Only spawns for 4, but with a diff setting you can put that up to for 5.
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If you are going to complain about something, pick a valid example... your "you actually made farming EASIER for RMT farmers" is complete BS.
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Can I have what you're smokin? They really did.
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Um Wrong... the softloading of the Villian Respec, LRTF, STF alone warrants this change.
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Softloading of things indicates only one thing: doing them the usual way is un-fun to people. Maybe this is because they receive their 15th Crap of the Hunter. Maybe this is because they don't like playing with others. Maybe it is something else. It certainly warrants a change, but it does not warrant only this change.
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And its not like the NPCS dont indicate that you need 'X' Number of players to run a TF
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Yeah they tell my brute to bring friends to kill a little sissy EB too. There are brutes (and MMs) who can solo an AV. Your point?
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llotg's are already going for 75 mill redside. 75 mill. you think the average player can afford that? hell, lighthouse, i've been known to farm a bit (not gonna lie), and i can't afford those.
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here's a hint... then don't!!!
The prices are set by the buyers NOT the sellers. If noone is buying at a given listed price... then guess what... eventually the prices will drop
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So... folks who are already IO'd out win the game and the rest of us should just accept being inferior. I see now.
Brilliant understanding of economics too, I might add. I betcha diamonds would be cheap as glass if people just stopped buying them, wouldn't they?
Prices are set by buyers and sellers based on supply and demand. NCSoft just reduced the supply without affecting the demand at all. On top of that they've been changed the game to cause inflation (i.e. more inf per recipe drop) Guess what that means?