Discussion: Changes to Task/Strike Force Missions
By
Acid_Reign,
Posted on: 2008-02-14 15:00 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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"Who you are making it hard on is people who enjoy SOLOING, who enjoy CASUAL game play or those that enjoy PVP and want the accolades."
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I call BS on this statement. TFs and SFs have always been intended to be done as a team. That means not solo. If you can't manage to solo them then find a team.
The funny part is certian players are still going to manage to solo some of these.
Solo players have 98% of the rest of the game to solo with. So no sympathy here.
I also find it hard top believe that this is going to effect casual players to much. Either they have the time to do these or they don't.
All this angst is because people will have to take more time to get thier shiney from the Cap SF.
Boo Hoo.
~MR
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I don't call BS on it since I said it. If I want to team I will, HOWEVER if I feel like not teaming, I won't. This change was made to make it so I have to. I'd rather personally run a Hess TF solo myself. I find it 1. enjoyable, 2. oh yeah enjoyable and 3. rewarding. I do the entire thing, I load in my accts and bam I get the rewards. And since not all of the rewards are IMO taskforceworthy (cuz yeah...I really need that 17,000th "Sting of the manticore" or yet another "Trap of the Hunter"), I am always hoping that ONE out of the FIVE get something I either need or can sell.
As long as I'm not breaking the EULA when I play, I see no reason to penalize me for how I play OR for the devs to tell me how to play. I'm a paying customer, I expect to be treated as such.
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The fact that you need X amount of people to even start a TF should clue people in to the fact that you were not meant to solo it.
I really don't care about "casual players" that invite 4-5 other people to do a TF, have them quit or kicked, then proceed to do the whole thing themselves.
Circumventing game mechanics to suit your needs gets no sympathy from me.
Seriously, they've always been designed this way. The only sad part is how long it took them to fix this.
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I have FIVE accounts, I can start up any task force I want since I can ask a few good friends to help me start them out. So again, as long as I am not breaking the EULA by logging in five accts (and I'm not), then I stand by my opinion. Unless I'm violating a rule, then leave me the hell alone with how I play.
Thanks, NC Soft, for closing my favorite game ever without warning and with plenty of life still left in it, and thus relieving me of the burden of EVER wanting to buy, try or even hear about another game from your company. Will my decision make a dent, or persuade them in anyway, shape or form? Nope, obviously not. Don't care. NC Soft is dead to me. ~ PsyFox
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Hmm, this won't help much with the Shadow Shard TFs, since on some of those you could knock out some of the missions without the team there. It's tough to get 8 people on at one time for the duration of a few of those.
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Please can the minimum team size of the Shard TF's in particular be examined.
An adjustment to 6 should be at least seriously considered.
Manticore should also be tweaked down from 7 to 6.
All in all I did see this coming. Softloading was becoming far too commonly used as a shortcut.
Of course now I am going to have to solo a load of them again just for the heck of it 
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Agreed. Softloading was HIGHLY annoying IMO and I'm glad it won't work anymore. It just... felt like cheating to me.
Now if they'll just fix the Sewer Trial to have an upper level limit so it can't be cheated, i'll be a happy camper! 
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Or they could just fix soft loading.
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?? I think they just DID... which is cool with meh!
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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Hmm, this won't help much with the Shadow Shard TFs, since on some of those you could knock out some of the missions without the team there. It's tough to get 8 people on at one time for the duration of a few of those.
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Please can the minimum team size of the Shard TF's in particular be examined.
An adjustment to 6 should be at least seriously considered.
Manticore should also be tweaked down from 7 to 6.
All in all I did see this coming. Softloading was becoming far too commonly used as a shortcut.
Of course now I am going to have to solo a load of them again just for the heck of it
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Agreed. Softloading was HIGHLY annoying IMO and I'm glad it won't work anymore. It just... felt like cheating to me.
Now if they'll just fix the Sewer Trial to have an upper level limit so it can't be cheated, i'll be a happy camper!
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Or they could just fix soft loading.
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?? I think they just DID... which is cool with meh!
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A much better way to do it would have been for missions to spawn based on how many people are on the team -- whether logged into the game or not. No idea how possible that is, although I'd wager to say that it wouldn't be impossible for the game to know how many people are on the team, even if some of those people aren't actually online.
Making missions spawn for a static number of team members is just dumb, especially for the longer TFs. Do they really expect that teams won't ever drop below the number required to start?
I'm late to the party, but I'll say:
1. I'm unhappy about this. I'm certainly no farmer, but me and my very small SG (3 players) like to take small groups through TFs. You can't always get a team of 6, 7 or 8 together on a radom night to start the TF you'd like to play. This is artificially gating TF content. Hamfisted changes like these hurt casual players more than the farmers, who already have a better plan.
2. My faith in the new regime has been sorely shaken with this last patch. Subs are down with the lastest Q numbers, and this is starting to remind me of Issue 5 times where you were afraid of every patch....
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I have FIVE accounts, I can start up any task force I want since I can ask a few good friends to help me start them out. So again, as long as I am not breaking the EULA by logging in five accts (and I'm not), then I stand by my opinion. Unless I'm violating a rule, then leave me the hell alone with how I play.
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/signed
Suggestion:
Since this is being done because of an exploit could we not change the spawn sizes so that it can tell the difference between people that are logged off and people that have quit?
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Making missions spawn for a static number of team members is just dumb, especially for the longer TFs. Do they really expect that teams won't ever drop below the number required to start?
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This is a great point.
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Yeah, once again the devs identify a problem and haul out a sledgehammer to 'fix' it.
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*grin* exactly... if what they're saying is true, they're using that sledgehammer to try to kill flies (namely RMT farmers).
Much like trying to kill a real fly with a sledgehammer by swinging wildly and chasing the insect all over their house, they didn't accomplish what they set out to do, and in the process wound up just putting a lot of holes in the walls...
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In response to a more recent post in the thread, YES, they have the capability to tell how many people are on a team, even if some of them are logged off... note that Ex Libris did say that spawn sizes for TF's that require less than 8 members to start going down as people quit until the team's size drops below that minimum start size.
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In response to a more recent post in the thread, YES, they have the capability to tell how many people are on a team, even if some of them are logged off... note that Ex Libris did say that spawn sizes for TF's that require less than 8 members to start going down as people quit until the team's size drops below that minimum start size.
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Which makes this "solution" make even less sense. Go team! Go team, go!
"Always remember that you're unique -- just like everybody else."
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Hmm, this won't help much with the Shadow Shard TFs, since on some of those you could knock out some of the missions without the team there. It's tough to get 8 people on at one time for the duration of a few of those.
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Please can the minimum team size of the Shard TF's in particular be examined.
An adjustment to 6 should be at least seriously considered.
Manticore should also be tweaked down from 7 to 6.
All in all I did see this coming. Softloading was becoming far too commonly used as a shortcut.
Of course now I am going to have to solo a load of them again just for the heck of it
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Agreed. Softloading was HIGHLY annoying IMO and I'm glad it won't work anymore. It just... felt like cheating to me.
Now if they'll just fix the Sewer Trial to have an upper level limit so it can't be cheated, i'll be a happy camper!
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Or they could just fix soft loading.
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?? I think they just DID... which is cool with meh!
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A much better way to do it would have been for missions to spawn based on how many people are on the team -- whether logged into the game or not. No idea how possible that is, although I'd wager to say that it wouldn't be impossible for the game to know how many people are on the team, even if some of those people aren't actually online.
Making missions spawn for a static number of team members is just dumb, especially for the longer TFs. Do they really expect that teams won't ever drop below the number required to start?
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Of course people will drop. It's a fact of life. The only TF's that this will matter MUCH on are the 8 person TF's. And, accually, so long as too many people don't drop, it shouldn't be an issue. I team of 6, if they are played by halfway compent people can handle a map set for 8. And if you loss much more then two, the TF would prolly be doomed anyways. (in the case of the STF's or LRSF. The shard TF's maybe not... it's something the dev's should look into i agree, maybe redoing the teammember requirments for some of hte TFs.)
And as for the comments about farming from others... I don't see this as being alot easier then the current methode of farming... finding fillers is fairly simple from what i gather...(I don't farm)... muilty boxers can farm without the need of many fillers, and frankly it's prolly a ton easier to reset an outdoor mission map then it is logging in and out all the time to respawn a TF mission map. Farming will still be a part of the game, just the way it is currently. I don't see a big issues with TF famring springing up over this.
And who's to say the dev's aren't taking steps to deal with farming in some OTHER way... at least... that the impression i've gotten from some recent posts... that they are looking for a solouation to the problem...
Only time will tell.
*** I also feel the need to point out that, if it is possible to set the spawns to the size of the team, even if they are logged off, it's be a better solotion IMO. I just don't see the current solotion as the game ending nerf some people are making it out to be.***
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
Well glad to see I no longer have any reason to run ANY TFs/SFs (except for the STF) EVER again.
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We know that finding out about this change after the patch is already live is not the ideal way to go about it. It was never our intent to hide or stealth this change out, it was simply lost in the volume of other changes spanning many months.
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Odd how it's always the nerfs that "accidentally" get left out of the patch notes but the things that the devs see as things the players will like always make it in every time.
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Solo farming has just become SO much easier! Thank you!
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Very true. Maybe there will be less broadcasting for fillers now. They can just farm all the missions in a TF without needing fillers each time they clear a map.
so much for moderately quick Cap SF runs...::sigh::
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Funny, all this complaining, and all I really see in this change is "TFs will be played as they were supposed to be played"
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Might I suggest glasses? 
So, if 8 people start a TF that needs 8 to start and over the course of several hours, 4 people have to go, the other 4 (who have put in all that time) should be penalized and either attempt to deal with mobs set for 8 players or give up on the TF?
That's the way they are "supposed" to be played?
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Suggestion:
Since this is being done because of an exploit could we not change the spawn sizes so that it can tell the difference between people that are logged off and people that have quit?
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While that would be better...sometimes people don't quit before they leave the TF, never to return. Sometimes their internet connection goes out for a few hours, sometimes their computer crashes hard, won't reboot, and they decide to get some sleep because it'll be too late, sometimes the magic smoke comes out of the computer.
And there are legitimate reasons to logging out with an intent to return. "Aw, damn, I just got an emergency call, I need to get someone from the airport. I think it'll be about 90 minutes, so I'll be back before the end."
BTW, people are listing LGTF as requiring 8 people. As I recall, it was reduced to 6 in I10 beta testing, though the text was never updated. To the best of my knowledge, it's still 6 (though with all the things that didn't make it into the patch notes, who knows?).
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The reason it's bad in the limit is that they become the ones least affected by this change. The logic goes: slower/longer TF for more folks = higher prices for desirable pool C drops = more RMT business since they can still make large amounts of inf.
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Huh?
Ppl are saying that RMTers are going to exploit this TF change...
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I didn't. When I said 'boon to farmers' I didn't say anything about RMT. If you want to create the straw man argument that everyone in this thread that is talking about farming problems caused by minimum loads is solely focused on RMT, then I guess you just might win against that false premise. Score one for you!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAAHA
Where did I say "everyone in this thread" is saying that. I said "Ppl" as in "People" not Everyone. But look closely, because there clearly are ppl in this thread who are & were saying that RMTers are going to exploit this change.
Nice try though
Oh, and once more... No, simply No. RMT Farmers are Not going to be exploiting this change.
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You are being obtuse.
My SS/WP brute will easily take out a 4 man spawn of CoT with your scary Death Mage.
You think RMT Farmers or farmers in general only have fire/kins?
Obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about.
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And if you loss much more then two, the TF would prolly be doomed anyways.
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Bull. First time I ever did the Ernesto Hess TF, all hell broke loose. We started with 8 people, and by the last mission only 3 of us were left. We still completed the damn thing.
But had it been under this new "fix"? Pff. HELL no. The moment we were left with 3 the TF would have been impossible to beat.
I've done others that started with 8 and dwindled down to 4, but we still beat them. We sure as hell wouldn't have under this new "fix".
I strongly dislike this change. TFs have a high potential to lose members for various reasons. Only now, losing those members easily has the potential to automatically doom a TF/SF to failure.
Unless you have a group of dedicated players who you absolutely know are going to be there for the entire duration of the TF/SF, you have a high chance of people dropping. Some people get connection problems, some have RL issues that take priority, some decide the TF/SF is too long and back out, some just drop without ever saying a word.
I don't think this "fixes" much of anything. Quite the opposite.
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I haven't read through all of these -- but please oh please fix the [censored] bugged scientist in the first mission of the RSF. The first mission *needs* to be single spawned.
[censored] schmucks.
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This change is HORRIBLE imo.
sorry, but i'd rather not take 7 hours to do a posi TF with people who I do not care for.
ROLL BACK.
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QFT
This seems like a poor solution to me, more likely to punish PUGs that lose members over the course of a long TF than it is to really clamp down Pool C recipe farming. Additionally, it seems like allowing a single character to set himself up with an infinitely repeatable group mission could only be a boon to influence farmers.
I've never liked the way the Pool C recipes were implimented, so I'm not really interested in 'fixing' any exploits we use to actually get them. But even so, a hamhanded fix like this is borderline insulting when TFs like Positron and Quaterfield are still day long slogathons. But pushing such a fix live without any testing or warning is beyond insulting. The last thing this game needs is a return to the sloppy change documentation that plagued it's first year. Get your act together, devs!
I'd recommend pulling this change back to the test server and actually testing it rather than letting it stand as an ill-thought out fait accompli.
-D
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The reason it's bad in the limit is that they become the ones least affected by this change. The logic goes: slower/longer TF for more folks = higher prices for desirable pool C drops = more RMT business since they can still make large amounts of inf.
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Huh?
Ppl are saying that RMTers are going to exploit this TF change...
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I didn't. When I said 'boon to farmers' I didn't say anything about RMT. If you want to create the straw man argument that everyone in this thread that is talking about farming problems caused by minimum loads is solely focused on RMT, then I guess you just might win against that false premise. Score one for you!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAAHA
Where did I say "everyone in this thread" is saying that. I said "Ppl" as in "People" not Everyone. But look closely, because there clearly are ppl in this thread who are & were saying that RMTers are going to exploit this change.
Nice try though
Oh, and once more... No, simply No. RMT Farmers are Not going to be exploiting this change.
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You are being obtuse.
My SS/WP brute will easily take out a 4 man spawn of CoT with your scary Death Mage.
You think RMT Farmers or farmers in general only have fire/kins?
Obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about.
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After reading all his/her comments I can safely say Treme doesn't know what the hell she/he is talking about. And knows jack [censored] about farming.
And news flash: death mages ain't all that. My fire/kin easily destroys groups of 2-3 death mages.
LOL, death mages.
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Um, that TF (ice Minstral) caps at lvl 40. So unless you want to up the difficulty to spawn lvl 41 & 42s...
Guess what, now you are back into the Bosses Issues
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I just pointed the "instant farm just add water" aspect of the TF change to one of the guys we sometimes farmed BZ with. He was immediately excited. This guy regularly runs Liberate TV at max difficulty with a team of 8. He doesn't care about sissy little death mages.
You seem to fail to grasp that boss XP and thus Inf went up... a lot. Or that some builds are in fact better at boss killing than minion killing (EM anyone?).
But that's okay, go ahead and live in your fantasy world.
Oh, I wanted to add I know he's RMT'd in the past. Used to sell on Ebay I think, actually, before Ebay did the big RMT ban stick. Btw, he's about as American as you can get.
Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, but that's more evidence than your "lol bosses" has.
Congratulations on killing PUG TFs. And most small SG TFs.
Congratulations on killing the Black Market.
Congratulations on killing the Shard TFs, not that anyone actually did them.
Congratulations on forcing teaming in a game without a whole ton of people on at any given time outside of Freedom or Virtue. Again.
Congratulations on killing the IO system for me.
Congratulations on giving me a reason to viciously chew out anyone who logs during a 5+ hour task force. Even if it's because their mother had a heart attack.
Congratulations on giving people great new ways to grief others.
Congratulations.
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2. Reduce the minimum number of players required for a TF or SF to a maximum of six. Only exception: STF and LRSF, since they are meant to be endgame challenges and "hardcore".
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Just to quickly touch on this (since I'm on the Training Room with the Wedding Event, but reading here too) - most Task Forces and Strike Forces have a requirement of 4. I was looking over documentation on the list of SF/TF.
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Unless it changed yesterday:
Positron 3
Synapse 4
Sister Psyche 5
Moonfire 6
Hess 6
Citadel 6
Katie Hannon 6
Manticore 7
Numina 4
Eden 4
Doc Q 8
Sara Moore 8
Justin Augustine 8
Faathim 8
Lady Grey 8
States TF 8
Virgil Tarikoss 4
Silver Mantis 4
Operative Renault 4
Ice Mistral 4
Lord Recluse 8 45 to 50
Respec Trials 4
Cavern 8
Sewer 1
4 Hero TF with 3-4
4 Villan SF with 4
11 Hero TF with 6 or more (6 with 8)
2 Villan SF with 6 or more (2 with 8)
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