Why do the devs hate COV?

Not to the PvP contacts, but speaking to a contact that belongs to the enemy faction simple results in them refusing to talk to you, like you haven't been introduced. They usually have some [censored] remark to make, as well.

There was also a bug wherein the Recluse's Victory technician in Grandville treated villains like heroes and had a "A hero? Help! Security!" line when you spoke to him, rather than the long diatribe about what to do in the zone. It has since been fixed.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

If that's the case, then there is absolutely no reason RWZ couldn't have had faction specific contacts. The technology IS there.

Technically, yes. For some reason, though, the developers always make a really big deal out of making new missions (just missions, not enemy factions, zones, specific enemies, temporary powers or anything like that) and so we see incredibly few missions added. I've never seen an official explanation, but it feels like we should have been getting literally hundreds of new random missions with every Issue. They take all of three paragraphs of text, a pre-fab instanced map and an enemy faction allocation.

I understand why GOOD missions and GOOD story arcs would take a while to make and why they would require specific arcs, but why aren't we getting masses of random missions all the time? I'd really like to see a developer response as to why it's so laborious to make them one of these years.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

personaly i think there should nto be such a strong line between heros and villains pvping is fun but for pvers the more the marrier

I am completely behind you on this. Throwing a new contact or three down every new issue into pre-existing zones doesn't seem like a huge undertaking to me. Yes, you need to come up with a model for the guy (and this can take time, but some don't need to), you need to make sure the contact fits the zone, fills a hole, or whatever, you need to make sure the stories are alright...

But really, the actual process of adding missions or a contact shouldn't be that hard. I would be very surprised if they didn't have a tool built for easy mission creation. It's a quick way to add content to a game, and it adds up fast.

I'd like them to take it further, in the efforts to bring CoV up to par, and have 'em just release a full new zone to the Rogue Isles every issue - one not tied to the issue story arc, just something to help the villains get their alt. path set up. You throw in one each issue, you'd be DONE by now. Although I know that this is a lot more work tha just sprinkling contacts around.

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I am completely behind you on this. Throwing a new contact or three down every new issue into pre-existing zones doesn't seem like a huge undertaking to me. Yes, you need to come up with a model for the guy (and this can take time, but some don't need to), you need to make sure the contact fits the zone, fills a hole, or whatever, you need to make sure the stories are alright...

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It doesn't even have to be for new contacts, either. Just dump, say, a dozen missions in the queues of all 5-6 contacts in a zone and you're golden. Give the Golden Roller a few more jobs to pull. Give Moongoose a few more critters to hunt and small fish to beat up. Give the Shadowy Figure more shadowy missions. Give Hard Luck more gamblers to strongarm. Give Tavish Bell more a few more deniable missions. There's ground to add.

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I'd like them to take it further, in the efforts to bring CoV up to par, and have 'em just release a full new zone to the Rogue Isles every issue - one not tied to the issue story arc, just something to help the villains get their alt. path set up. You throw in one each issue, you'd be DONE by now. Although I know that this is a lot more work tha just sprinkling contacts around.

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If that were possible, I'd be down with that. Or should I say "up for that?" Regardless, I continue to maintain that CoV needs more zones, so adding a CoV zone on the side with every Issue would be a pretty dang good way to add a few more. Just more places to visit, because diverse as the current CoV maps may be, I'm sick and tired of all 7 of 'em.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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I understand why GOOD missions and GOOD story arcs would take a while to make and why they would require specific arcs, but why aren't we getting masses of random missions all the time? I'd really like to see a developer response as to why it's so laborious to make them one of these years.

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We already have random missions -- newspaper and police scanner missions. It's possible the devs think the variety offered therein is sufficient. As you note, most missions are pretty much the same, anyway.

If the difference is just cosmetic (a different-looking contact, different flavor text), how important is it that the devs spend time creating what would essentially be a variation on existing paper/scanner missions? I'm not asking to be snarky, genuinely curious how new random missions might differ.

EDIT: Sam answered while I was posting. Never mind!

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EDIT: Sam answered while I was posting. Never mind!

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That's it pretty much, yes

I have a beef with paper/scanner missions in that they're random, but the framework uses very, VERY few possible options and just switches a few names around. This is incredibly obvious when you fire up the radio and see how "the Arachnos" are on the rampage, or learn that "Jerian strikes again. You hated that guy on the can, and you hate him now!" when "that guy" is actually a Ring Mistress. Just feels like a lot of names got dumped into a fairly small pool.

Personally, if the only effort involved were writing the mission briefings, I'd be perfectly willing to do it for free and abandon all claims on them. At an average of about 5-6 paragraphs per well-described mission and an average of probably 2 lines A4 (the contact communications screen is very narrow) per paragraph, that doesn't strike me as a monumental effort. Hell, check out my posting history - I write more than than in an average post here on the boards

It just seems like something that should (SHOULD) be a simple, cheap and easy solution to dump more of the same content by the truckload. And, yes, I know "more of the same" isn't exactly an inspiring proposition, but considering it feels like it shouldn't (SHOULD not) come at the expense of other new stuff, I really wonder why this has never become a standard practice.

Imagine a world where we have the current specific arcs, and then literally thousands upon thousands of other missions to choose from, each unique unto itself, even if none is really anything special. In such a world, there would never be a case of "Oh, Colonel Metzger! I fought him last week. He didn't deserve being called 'slaughter.'"

Yeah, it's a silly notion, to be sure. There's probably a very real technical reason about why we don't get many cheap missions per Issue. Honestly, I'd like to know about it.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Well, I'd love to hear the reasoning for it too. I mean, IMHO, that is what SHOULD be released every issue. Sure, have the big overall scope, adding the big stuff, the new gameplay mechanics, the next big story... but there should be small additions all over as well. Adding a contact here or there, or just new mission arcs. I'd like to see a new power set every issue as well, although that may be pushing it to some.

Really though, I think if they got into the habit of figuring out new contacts or new power sets every issue, they'd get it working smoothly and quickly in a short amount of time. It shouldn't (SHOULDN'T) be a massive undertaking to add some of the smaller content to the game every issue. It would give everyone more to do, more incentive to play chars old and new, and vastly increase the perceived size of the game.

Now, a lot of issues have BEEN new zones, new contacts, new missions etc. I realize that, it's good. I'm saying sprinkle some new stuff in old zones as well, liven them up. It doesn't take a complete zone revamp to add one new contact... does it?

I concur More missions, or just more diff enemies in the paper missions...

I had some time to think about this. What CoV, specifically, needs in contacts is... more choice. More ability to shape your own personal destiny. As Sam said, the contact who gives you a bunch of things to do and expects you to do them works for heroes, and it works for mercenaries, but not so much for actual villains.

Villains need choice. Remember back in Breakout when you're given a choice between two contacts, Jimmy Dortz and Angel Lopez, and you can only choose one? And how when you get out you get a choice between Kalinda and Burke? What needs to be done is to bend that tech into something allowing an almost "choose your own adventure" story.

Imagine, a new zone like Striga, with several contacts as part of a zone story arc. It's a big jungle island with a forbidding castle at its peak. Somewhere during the course of the zone story arc, you find out that inside that castle is an old, uncompleted doomsday device. (Bingo, you have a tried-and-true comic book supervillain McGuffin.) Now the story allows you to diverge a bit. Your current contact, not wishing to get involved with this knowledge any further, presents you with an option. Your next contact can be the Arachnos marshal for the island, letting you notify them of the device's presence, and he'll need your help to get it back into working order. Or, you can be the ambitious one and get ahold of a technician contact who will assist you in rebuilding the device under the nose of Arachnos, as long as you can brave the danger of acquiring the materials to do so.

Either story arc culminates differently. While you may not be able to blow up Paragon City in the end (status quo must be maintained and all) your actions can still make the difference between gaining Arachnos's respect as one of their loyalists, or as a villain in your own right.

Bonus points if you get the opportunity to monologue.

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As it should have. Giving Blasters Unstoppable is unforgivable.

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And yet some folks want to compound one error by duplicating it villanside ?

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Yes. It's called a level playing-field.

Make PPP's available to Heroes through some series of quests.

Make EPP's available to Villains.

Call it a day.

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More choices = more better.

At 40+, everyone should have a choice between

1) a Patron Pool (one of the Arachnos Elite or Freedom Phalanx, depending on your faction - basically a set of powers in the theme of your patron)
2) a Mastery Pool (elemental/weaponry/generic energy type pools like the current hero "epics" - for people who don't like the Patron Pools for flavor or suck reasons)
3) a 5th Generic Power Pool for people who think both the Patron and Mastery pools are a waste of their time, but would really like to fit in Recall Friend in a build that already had 4 Power Pool choices.

Then you could have your cake and eat it too. You could still have "pick one patron you're stuck with forever", but you could respec FROM that Patron Pool to one of the Mastery pools or the 5th generic.

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i realy do not have anything against the ppp out of the 4 toons i have that can have them only 1 of them has taken there powers so take a 5th common pool power is something i would love

why are the hazard zones beeing remade? i hate to point this out but i realy want to know this

Because only a tiny fraction of the population use them, and the Devs want them to be used.

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Why are the hazard zones being remade? I hate to point this out, but I really want to know this.

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Hazard zones are being remade because there is no point to visiting them any more. Once upon a time streethunting was by far the most lucrative way to level up. That has since moved on to missions for reasons of convenience and experience, so a zone the sole purpose of which is to facilitate streethunting is pointless. Changes are made to add missions to the zone in an effort to bring a reason for people to visit it, thereby turning what is wasted space into useful content.

Once upon a time, City of Heroes broke many MMO clichés half by accident. The game was designed with the idea that, among other things, people will want to streethunt in big teams and level up this way. To facilitate that, large zones virtually devoid of other content were designed. However, the developers failed to realise that streethunting would not end up as popular as they expected. Maybe it's because they simply saw other MMOs completely made out of hunting and felt it was a natural activity to focus on, or perhaps because they underestimated how much people would flock to the "best" way to level.

For whatever reason, we ended up with gigantic, beautiful, memorable zones that are almost completely unused. Adding content to them, as opposed to creating brand new zones, is a good way to recycle some of the better parts of the game into something that will be used.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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However, the developers failed to realise that streethunting would not end up as popular as they expected. Maybe it's because they simply saw other MMOs completely made out of hunting and felt it was a natural activity to focus on, or perhaps because they underestimated how much people would flock to the "best" way to level.

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That and once you have travel powers, fighting your way through the streets to a mission seems a pointless waste of time when you can just hop over the mobs (something other MMOs don't give you the ability to do) and get right into the mission. With the mission XP increase and reduced debt inside the mission, the fate of streethunting was sealed.

The Devs definitely learned a lot of lessons, especially from the ways that they unintentionally broke the mold.

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The Devs definitely learned a lot of lessons, especially from the ways that they unintentionally broke the mold.


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Exactly which is why COH has several large empty zones that are barely used. Note that the hollows aren't used for street sweeping there are 4 TF's and a Trial there that people do.

Anyway this state of Hazard Zones is why I always shake my head in amazement at people COV side asking for Hazard Zones. I guess they want large empty zones that are hardly ever used.

I expect that what they want and what they are asking for are not the same thing. It is just a misunderstanding of the nature of hazard zones. Ie.. new zones.... good. new hazard zones... not so good.

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Why are the hazard zones being remade? I hate to point this out, but I really want to know this.

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Hazard zones are being remade because there is no point to visiting them any more. Once upon a time streethunting was by far the most lucrative way to level up. That has since moved on to missions for reasons of convenience and experience, so a zone the sole purpose of which is to facilitate streethunting is pointless. Changes are made to add missions to the zone in an effort to bring a reason for people to visit it, thereby turning what is wasted space into useful content.

Once upon a time, City of Heroes broke many MMO clichés half by accident. The game was designed with the idea that, among other things, people will want to streethunt in big teams and level up this way. To facilitate that, large zones virtually devoid of other content were designed. However, the developers failed to realise that streethunting would not end up as popular as they expected. Maybe it's because they simply saw other MMOs completely made out of hunting and felt it was a natural activity to focus on, or perhaps because they underestimated how much people would flock to the "best" way to level.

For whatever reason, we ended up with gigantic, beautiful, memorable zones that are almost completely unused. Adding content to them, as opposed to creating brand new zones, is a good way to recycle some of the better parts of the game into something that will be used.

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One of the things they did in beta which I wished they had kept was they had feedback on missions after completion where you rated mission and said why you liked or hated them. I think they should have kept that feature and we might have seen more missions like the Hockey Goalie mission in Croatoa or Planet Warwolf . It could be set up as a player option. I would be very interested to see which missions would get the best player rating. I also think that the player input helped a lot with the design of later missions and helped make them more fun.

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Anyway this state of Hazard Zones is why I always shake my head in amazement at people COV side asking for Hazard Zones. I guess they want large empty zones that are hardly ever used.

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Diversity isn't about how much things are used, it's about having options.

Heroes have the option, villains don't.

I do support revamps of the Faultline/RWZ type, but villains want more zone diversity and aren't being picky about how they get it.

I have no problem supporting more zones for villain side, I just don't see the value in the new zones being hazard zones.

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I have no problem supporting more zones for villain side, I just don't see the value in the new zones being hazard zones.

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I agree with this, unreservedly. I'd love to see a new low- or mid-level zone in CoV ... but not a "hazard zone", we simply don't need THOSE. I want a zone like Faultline or Croatoa, but with a villainous flavor ... something with an internal storyline for my villains to explore.

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I have no problem supporting more zones for villain side, I just don't see the value in the new zones being hazard zones.

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it's not going to happen, so there's nothing to argue about.
But villains getting access to hazard zones would be an improvement over villains not getting anything.

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I have no problem supporting more zones for villain side, I just don't see the value in the new zones being hazard zones.

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i may be wrong but are the shadow shards considerd hazzards zones i would love to do the tf in there

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I have no problem supporting more zones for villain side, I just don't see the value in the new zones being hazard zones.

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it's not going to happen, so there's nothing to argue about.
But villains getting access to hazard zones would be an improvement over villains not getting anything.

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In your opinion. Hazard Zones on CoV would be a huge waste of code. I play CoV more often then CoH and I would HATE the idea of the Devs spending time creating wastelands like hazard zones rather then adding additional SFs or new storylines or QoL improvements or bug fixes or lag reduction.

Any new CoV content/fixes > New CoV Hazard Zone

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I have no problem supporting more zones for villain side, I just don't see the value in the new zones being hazard zones.

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it's not going to happen, so there's nothing to argue about.
But villains getting access to hazard zones would be an improvement over villains not getting anything.

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In your opinion. Hazard Zones on CoV would be a huge waste of code. I play CoV more often then CoH and I would HATE the idea of the Devs spending time creating wastelands like hazard zones rather then adding additional SFs or new storylines or QoL improvements or bug fixes or lag reduction.

Any new CoV content/fixes > New CoV Hazard Zone

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I think what most people meant was giving villains access to the Hazard zones.

Quite frankly, that'd be rad provided they update them with villain content. It'd give villains a way to interact indirectly with heroes. Like, both sides throw monkey wrenches in the other's plans with the content.