I didn't appreciate CoX's innovations until ...
By
AlexEss,
Posted on: 2007-12-26 09:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Flight: ...Nowadays, of course, all of the smarter players have Raptor Packs no later than level 8.
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Amen brother!
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Sidekicking and Exemplaring: ...How could all these veterans of the industry not know that this problem got solved three and a half years ago?
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Amen... almost. It's still a pain if you have more than one other friend and everyone is all different levels.
What they should do is just GM code (Giant Monster) all instances. Only the powers possessed by mobs and their relative levels (lieut, boss, elite boss, etc.) should be coded in a mish. Difficulty in a mish should be set entirely by Hero Corps/Fateweaver. There should be a way to reduce the difficulty to the equivalent of green mobs, just in case.
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Cellphones:
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A-frickin'-men!!
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Extraordinary Forum:
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Well the players here are more intelligent, better mannered and better looking than any other MMOG. What do you expect, we're superheroes!
I guess some of us are super villains too. But we're much more intelligent and better looking super villains, by far.
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I even like competing for resource nodes despite the fact that it often makes me want to slap my fellow players.
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Uh oh... Castle condones farming!
U LEEV NAO OR I PK
rock on dude, welcome to the club
I'm an old-school MUD'er myself, came from MajorMUD and dived into Ultima Online when it first came out (was raised on Ultima V, VI, VII, SI, and Underworld 2)
never got into EQ, but tried AC2 for a bit, was good for awhile (sad too hear that it crapped out, but the dev's there killed it)
and while I'm reluctant to throw down my semi-hard earned cash on just any new game, if I haven't played something, then I've probably seen it or have at least heard of it
so I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that IMHO at least, the City of Heroes/Villains game is by far the most forward-designed MMORPG out there right now
sure Blizzard is a great company (I can't wait for SC2), and yes WoW is a great and beautiful game, well designed for what it is too, but did they break the mold? no, they simply sharpened the razor
whereas if CoX didn't break the mold, it at least cracked and weakened it
almost all of my friends either have played WoW or still do, and I gave it a run, but really all it did, was remind me of how much better UO and CoH did things (the original UO has a lot of high water marks in my book)
and since I had deactivated my CoH account awhile back (my computer had broke and I was lazy and didn't want to fix it), basically playing WoW got me back into CoH (and CoV since I bought the GvE pack), it's just too bad that I don't have all the vet rewards now =[, since I didn't have an active account for the whole time
but yeah anyways, I know this is going off-topic (as if my rambling wasn't already), but aside from CoX, the next big thing, if/and/or/when it happens, is Darkfall
Darkfall is looking at not only breaking the mold, they're talking about SHATTERING it into it's sub-atomic components
as far as I'm concerned, until Darkfall comes out, nothing touches CoH/CoV (Guild Wars comes close though)
but again yeah, Brad, I couldn't agree with you more, everything you said is well put, I'm definitely glad the CoH development team has done what they have (minus the /Regen jury-rigs), and I'm even happier that they all stayed with their "baby", cause it really let's us (the players) KNOW that they really care about making this the best game they can (since in most of our books, it's already the best game out there)
so thanks again Positron, Castle, BaB, Jay, and crew, hope you guys all do great things in this new year (and since I saved Baby New Year from that psycho Snaptooth, you damn well better, that dudes a monster)
On the Care and Feeding of Your Scrapper (V2.0)
Martial Arts - A Comprehensive Guide
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I don't know where NCsoft is finding these people, or how they're taking ordinary moderators and community reps and training them to be this good. But only recently has anybody gotten it through to me just how rare and unusual this talent is, to what extent NCsoft has a near monopoly on it. And it's important to both the quality of the game and the quality of the relationship between us customers and you the company, it's the source of an awful lot of the goodwill between us. So again, thank you for making it look so easy that I never appreciated just how unusual and amazing you were being.
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Being a community guy in the industry myself, I have to say I agree with you for the most part. All of the community people in the industry that I've had the chance to talk to are typically the most fun, friendly (and in most cases smart) people you will ever meet. That being said however, if you want to see how to truly be "good" at the job, then I always strongly point people here.
I've been here since before I was even in community and to be honest, I've applied things I learned from watching Ex and Lighthouse, Aura, Cricket, and Cuppa Jo and applied to to my own forums and community. While I don't work with a community anywhere near as large as this, I can say that a majority of the success I've had with my players is because of what I learned watching them.
The community people here really are excellent and by god so are the devs, even for just responding to posts as much as they do. It's SO rare in mmo's to have actual DEVELOPERS post more then a handful of times (and not just the community or marketing guys)..and it shouldn't be rare at all in my opinion.
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... the next big thing, if/and/or/when it happens, is Darkfall
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lolz
oh wait, you're serious?
lolz 
Very nice post... I think you said a lot of things I definatly feel myself. Thank YOU.
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I think you short change the concept of street sweeping in other games a bit -- if all you do is instance missions, an MMO can begin to feel awfully empty and lonely!
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I think we'd get more street sweeping in outdoor debt and indoor debt became the same again. I remember street-sweeping in Perez and Boomtown - sweet times!
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Very nice post, Brad. Thanks a ton!
I've played a ton of MMOs. I've yet to play one I couldn't take some ideas from. I think you short change the concept of street sweeping in other games a bit -- if all you do is instance missions, an MMO can begin to feel awfully empty and lonely! I like seeing other player wander by doing whatever it is they are doing while I'm gathering the whatsits for my collection quest. I even like competing for resource nodes despite the fact that it often makes me want to slap my fellow players. I definitely get where you are coming from; but I do think there is room for this style of play.
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Actually I say too much instancing is City of Heroes/Villains weakness. I completely agree with you Castle. I miss street sweeping and seeing other players. Sometimes it feels like Diablo II where the "world" is just a visual representation of a chat room and then you "login" to the game either by yourself or up to 7 others.
Since I come from old school MMORPGs (Ultima Online, Everquest up until Planes of Power), I always liked competition and the feeling of a shared world. I even dislike having instances in World of Warcraft.
I liked how in Everquest you had dungeons that were camped. It gave them life in my personal opinion. I also like the outdoor world of Everquest/World of Warcraft (See: Non - Instanced) since you can run into other people and interact.
I wouldn't mind if the developers (If it is even possible with this engine) to somehow create a co-op zone where there is no instance missions. All of the content and story arcs take place in the "real" zone. There could be certain spawns and NPCs you might have to hunt. (Destroy the Nemesis Horse Automation) Yes it would be similar to World of Warcraft but there should be a balance.
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I even like competing for resource nodes despite the fact that it often makes me want to slap my fellow players.
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Actually, we used to have resource competition in CoH, but only in one zone and for one mission.
Defeat 10 Circle of Thorns in King's Row. Before the Hollows came along and ruined everything, everyone was waiting for nightfall so they could spy out those telltale eldritch blasts from the rooftops. Most of the time, we'd help each other as well as competing, especially if a new player was having trouble understanding how to find the CoT.
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I think you short change the concept of street sweeping in other games a bit -- if all you do is instance missions, an MMO can begin to feel awfully empty and lonely!
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I think we'd get more street sweeping in outdoor debt and indoor debt became the same again. I remember street-sweeping in Perez and Boomtown - sweet times!
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I also think that if the security chiefs gave unlimited hunting missions, you would see a lot more people use the outdoor content.
I would level character that way, for example.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Actually I say too much instancing is City of Heroes/Villains weakness.
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On behalf of all players who don't have the time to line up and wait to fight the big bad that might drop the item you need to complete a quest or might drop a powerful item you need to enhance your character: no.
It's been my experience that those players who dislike instances and want non-instanced content have a lot of time to play the game and wait for said non-instanced content to be reset for them. I really don't have that kind of time.
As an old-school EQ and UO player, you certainly have to remember those queues, as well as ninja looting and other non-fun things that exist when players have to wait for the content to be available for them, rather than the player being able to access the content whenever is convenient.
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But now that I realize just how far the entire rest of the industry lags behind City of Heroes and especially behind City of Villains in overall level of innovation and customer service, I realize just how well and thoroughly spoiled I am. Thank you!
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This post is teh win.
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I have played more MMOs (avidly) then I care to admit. The dev team for COX is absolutely the best in the industry. For those of you that have only played this MMO, trust me you are spoiled and don't even know it. I think one very important aspect of the difference is our devs have many gamers among their ranks. That in my mind is a key to customer service in this industry. Anyone can learn technical skills, however being a gamer adds a whole extra dynamic to things.
Juzam
Tanker aficionado
Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way.
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Actually I say too much instancing is City of Heroes/Villains weakness.
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On behalf of all players who don't have the time to line up and wait to fight the big bad that might drop the item you need to complete a quest or might drop a powerful item you need to enhance your character: no.
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except that's not how the game works.
way to get worked up over nothing, though.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I'm not sure you read those two posts.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I wouldn't mind if the developers (If it is even possible with this engine) to somehow create a co-op zone where there is no instance missions. All of the content and story arcs take place in the "real" zone. There could be certain spawns and NPCs you might have to hunt. (Destroy the Nemesis Horse Automation) Yes it would be similar to World of Warcraft but there should be a balance.
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To an extent this is in the game already - just look at the PvP zone missions. The problem is balancing it in such a way that people keep doing it - and are able to keep doing it with the inevitably diminished participation after the majority of players have the badges from it and are back to their instances.
Story arcs in non-instanced missions though? No way.
@Mindshadow
If there's something from Everquest that I don't miss, it's the unenviable situation of 1-5 pieces of loot for 72+ people. It boggles my mind to this very day how all the people who didn't get anything (and I mean that literally: little to no cash other than maybe a few pennies, virtually no experience gained, perhaps not even some objects that could be sold later for cash) in return for all their time and hard work to consider this situation remotely fair. I certainly would like to throttle whichever idiot came up with this idea, because damn, it was responsible for Lord knows how many bitter arguments over loot. Then, just when you finally got a full set of that great gear, along comes an expansion where a single piece of gear from said expansion rendered entire sections of your just-acquired hard-earned gear obsolete. It's stupid situations like this and more that has me vowing to never go back to Everquest again.
-Kirov
"To be violent at first and wind up fearing one's people is the epitome of ineptitude."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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On behalf of all players who don't have the time to line up and wait to fight the big bad that might drop the item you need to complete a quest or might drop a powerful item you need to enhance your character: no.
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As long as a couple things happen, its not too bad.
Having something else to do instead, that can grant you equal rewards, for example.
Also, having that mob not take 2 hrs to respawn and more like 2 to 5 min at most.
Its also best when that NPC isn't dropping loot, but quest items instead.
That way, one group comes in, kills the NPC and leaves. Instead of having people camped around the spawn point for ages.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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If there's something from Everquest that I don't miss, it's the unenviable situation of 1-5 pieces of loot for 72+ people.
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The same goes for every MMO that utilizes loot determine character effectiveness.
That's one thing I absolutely love about CoX. I'm actually done developing my Controller. I've been done developing him since last respeccing him, shortly after the release of ED. He's as effective as I want him to be, and I will likely never get over how awesome it feels to be able to say that about a character I play in an MMO!
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If there's something from Everquest that I don't miss, it's the unenviable situation of 1-5 pieces of loot for 72+ people.
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The same goes for every MMO that utilizes loot determine character effectiveness.
That's one thing I absolutely love about CoX. I'm actually done developing my Controller. I've been done developing him since last respeccing him, shortly after the release of ED. He's as effective as I want him to be, and I will likely never get over how awesome it feels to be able to say that about a character I play in an MMO!
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Why keep playing the character if theres nothing left to do with them?
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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If there's something from Everquest that I don't miss, it's the unenviable situation of 1-5 pieces of loot for 72+ people.
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The same goes for every MMO that utilizes loot determine character effectiveness.
That's one thing I absolutely love about CoX. I'm actually done developing my Controller. I've been done developing him since last respeccing him, shortly after the release of ED. He's as effective as I want him to be, and I will likely never get over how awesome it feels to be able to say that about a character I play in an MMO!
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Why keep playing the character if theres nothing left to do with them?
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Maybe because for some people, character development isn't the be all, end all of enjoyable game playing?
Boggles the mind, no?
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If there's something from Everquest that I don't miss, it's the unenviable situation of 1-5 pieces of loot for 72+ people.
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The same goes for every MMO that utilizes loot determine character effectiveness.
That's one thing I absolutely love about CoX. I'm actually done developing my Controller. I've been done developing him since last respeccing him, shortly after the release of ED. He's as effective as I want him to be, and I will likely never get over how awesome it feels to be able to say that about a character I play in an MMO!
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Why keep playing the character if theres nothing left to do with them?
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Maybe because for some people, character development isn't the be all, end all of enjoyable game playing?
Boggles the mind, no?
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lolrp
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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Maybe because for some people, character development isn't the be all, end all of enjoyable game playing??
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:: points to CoH_Player_101 ::
What he said.
Whats left?
Doing the same kind of missions again and again?
Standing around in Atlas Park for a few hours?
What is there?
You've simply said that character development isn't the only thing there is but completely forgot to tell me what else there is?
Or was the reply simply some sort of smart [censored] remark to make when you really don't have an answer to a question?
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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Why keep playing the character if theres nothing left to do with them?
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Maybe because for some people, character development isn't the be all, end all of enjoyable game playing?
Boggles the mind, no?
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lolrp
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RP nothing; I think he was referring to "levelling up". I have a number of characters at 50, several of them with far more set bonuses than anyone really needs, and I still enjoy playing them. I may not pull them out solo much, outside of events, but I'll still run task forces or exemplar down to join people I know.
Even though the characters aren't "earning" anything anymore, they don't stop being fun to play. I wouldn't have gotten them to 50 and IO/HO'd them if that weren't true.
@Mindshadow
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I could never play another MMO, I've tried WoW and EQ, and FFXI, and other less mentionables. and they all suck compared to COX!
Also LOL
Edited for loliness
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FFXI seemed to look at everything every MMO previously did wrong, and either a) forgot about it, or b) "improved" that to make it worse.
From what I recall - randomized server placement (not good for a group of friends just starting wanting to play together) if you don't have a world pass - and a long cut scene before you know which one your character has been placed on? And the pass cost ingame money, and let you start a NEW character on the server. From what I heard, by the time you could afford to buy one for a friend, you would be quite a bit ahead of start.
Cheapest monthly price, last I looked, of it's "generation" - but each character slot beyond the first (and no, not one per server) costs extra money?
A character race that is incapable of running straight?
Makes SWG sound downright friendly to me.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.