i know which build would only get SOs... also god i would love this.
Let me make a mild suggestion. One or two including the devs should spend a week playing Fury. Its all PvP all the time and they have some really good ideas, built onto a combat system very inferior to CoH/Cov.
Shadowbane was like that as well... it didn't do too hot, the engine was crummy, but they had some pretty good mechanisms for PvP.
let the dev just play PvP for a week in CoV to begin lol
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Let me make a mild suggestion. One or two including the devs should spend a week playing Fury. Its all PvP all the time and they have some really good ideas, built onto a combat system very inferior to CoH/Cov.
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Very true. I wish CoX had a queuing system like Fury's for match making PvP fights. On the other hand I am entirely happy with the fact that CoX does not have artificers.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
Very true. I wish CoX had a queuing system like Fury's for match making PvP fights. On the other hand I am entirely happy with the fact that CoX does not have artificers.
I am not sure what they would make in CoX. A suitable reward is on of the problems CoX has when it comes to PvP.
Thanks to everyone for the ideas and discussions. It's probably time to lock and unsticky this thread, and redirect people to the PVP Wishlist thread.
There's a lot of things I discussed with guildmates that would make pvp more fun. Some of them relatively easy to implement, others demanding a lot of development time.
1) Fix the balance between villains and heroes, specifically the 40+ powers (EPP/PPP) and the powers that are broken in PVP, as Jasmine already indicated.
2) This would have to be open pvp in all zones. This is a VERY hard one, and might need a specific PVP server, if anti-PVP sentiments ran up too high in the non-PVP playerbase. It would be allowed only for players level 40+, and only if there were a system in place for people to declare themselves combattant / non-combattant. There would have to be some restrictions:
- Simple system for changing status, preferably in the menu.
- A 5 minute warm-up / cool-down after changing combattant status
- Non-combattants would have to be unable to heal/buff/debuff combattants OUTSIDE OF MISSIONS
- If open world pvp were in place, guild wars could be introduced. There's ample precedent for it in the literature, even for hero-hero and villain-villain. Participation in a guild war could be set in a menu. Leaving the war should be possible, but would result in a black mark for the SG. A point system could be used to keep score (leaving war -100, someone being killed -10, killing another +10), all in proportion to the number of participants on each side, so an outnumbered group would get a bonus, resulting in a war ranking for SGs.
3) Change Recluse's Victory. Most of this could be applied in other zones too, by the way.
- Make RV a level 35+ zone. A lot of people do not like free-for-all PVP, and it would give those people more options.
- Do away with the silly turrets and Heavies, put those somewhere in PVE zones. Give Longbow a nice little base in Grandville, and give Arachnos a base in Peregrine Island. Let the PVE players have fun taking over PVE bases.
- Expand the Hero and Villain bases. Make the outlying areas of those bases attackable and conquerable for a limited amount of time and give a PVP reward doing so, for instance a random bonus to certain powers, a random buff, or somthing else that can be kept zone specific and doesn't bring farmers. Really conquering a base should take a combination of skills. One possibility is spawning non-glowing click objects in random places in the zone (only if x number of both sides are in the zone), that would be needed to open doors. The inner area of the base, with the exits and the base hospital, should be sacrosanct.
- Place a hospital in the middle of the zone where both sides can CHOOSE to rez at full health, at the risk of being attacked within seconds of rezzing there (thinking a 10 second timer, so you can get shields up). Choice would be rez at full health, but be at risk, or rez at 1 hitpoint in the safety of the base, and have to wait till back at workable health/end.
- The random exits are already in place. Maybe add a few more to avoid camping, which WOULD be a possibility in this setup.
One of the main problems I see is a totally wrong conception of how PVP works in a mixed player base. Given 100 random players, 10-15 of them will PVP with some regularity. Of that amount, not even half will PVP hardcore. Most of the others don't EVER want to be bothered with it. Forcing people to go into PVP zones to obtain certain objectives (badges, accolades) does NOT make them want to PVP, rather the reverse. Luring people into the PVP zones with the promise of phat loot only makes the relation between farmers and PVPers in the zone go VERY ugly VERY fast.
4) Change Warburg. Make it so that villains and heroes can team up. It's free-for-all, after all.
5) Do away with the police drones. The storyline already establishes that there is forcefield technology, so use it. Make defensive shields around the PVP zone entrances, that disable all offensive powers while inside it and are impenetrable for attacks of any type from the outside. In both cases, including TP foe. One less reason to whine. Taking down the base shield would, incidentally, be a fun first task in taking over a base.
6) Moderate chat in PVP zones and Arena channel a bit more. The occasional smacktalk is just entertainment, but some people go WAY too far, including detailed descriptions of anatomy, sexual preferences and positions, racial slurs, and gender-based harassment. The occasional live mod-smack would be both entertaining and useful.
7a) Let each player store one build per toon per PVP zone, to be activated only on entering the relevant zone. It would enable people to have a PVP build for PVP, while still having a PVE build for levelling and other PVE things.
7b) Introduce a new type of subscription for PVP only, with 3 character slots per PVP zone, that can be instantly levelled to the zone's maximum. These players would only have access to the PVP zones and the Arena (yes, this would mean Arena terminals in the PVP zones). They would be able to earn enhancements by doing a mix of PVE missions for regular enhancements (already there, in most PVP zones) and achieving PVP targets for the really good stuff (like the bounty system, which I incidentally enjoy VERY much, and would love to see implemented in all other zones). Please notes this would keep the instant-gratification types in the PVP crowd out of the hair of those who prefer PVE, while still giving both types of player the opportunity to gank each other if they so desire. Special bonusses like accolades should only be available to those who actually do the PVE grind. PVE players entering the zone should have the content of the enhancement tray 'put in storage' to prevent trade with the PVP sub players.
I am very serious about this. I know a LOT of PVPers who quit COV/COH because they simply couldn't stomach the PVE grind, even though they loved the speed of the PVP and the powers available. A guildwars-like system has the potential of drawing in PVPers without upsetting the anti-PVP people in the PVE playerbase.
8) Enable limited player camping, both in zone PVP and in any open world PVP. Admit it, we all like to do it /evil grin. Maybe make a rare temp power that can be earned through PVP or that is issued (one per participant) during guild wars, and that can used to cage a player for a limited amount of time - definitely no longer than 30 minutes, after which the player can escape by tp to base - forcing SG mates or the other side in general to come free them.
9) Change the communication options, make seeing the other side's chat on by default. Apart from the fact that the current setting makes it impossible to use the Help channel to help out a player on the other side, communication also prevents a lot of misunderstandings and hard feelings. It also helps build a community that transcends factions. Identification with your own side in Star Wars Galaxies was fierce, but the fact both sides could talk meant you could develop respect for a good opponent, and even agree to a cease-fire on occasion. Sometimes, like during the Winter Event, working together to gank the snow monster is a MUCH better idea than trying to ignore it (somehow, it doesn't go away).
Just some ideas...
=)
Linna
Matt Miller: The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the �equivalent� powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character.
all this don't fix the greatest problem that makes people flee PvP map.
i-m-b-a-l-a-n-c-e
How about oh...advertising the freaking pvp game on your homepage?
http://www.cityofheroes.com/
Under Game Info:
NOTHING about PvP. No mention of Arenas, hero vs. villain, the pvp zones.
How about doing a fraps of some of the ladder matches, or some stuff going on in zone and doing a voiceover. Have Positron explain PvP to newcomers, including a blow by blow of the pvp zones and the Arena. Conclude with a good 3-4 minutes of fast-paced pvp footage.
New person gets told by their friend about the game, goes to cityofheroes.com, sees game documentation and nothing about pvp? Has no idea PvP even exists in the game...
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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<ul type="square">[*]Add rare recipe rewards to Siren's Call and Recluse's Victory minigames. (#1 with a bullet, not enough ingame reward for PVP in this game)[*]Siren's Call style bounty system throughout the zones (with rare recipe reward)[*]Fix map holes (Arena and zone)[*]Cross-server PVP[*]New Arena rewards and content (eg CTF, Battlegrounds, Onslaught).. not just new maps[*]True PVP missions, for example Hero vs Villain Safeguard/Mayhem[/list]
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I'd be happy with just those... It wouldn't fix the arena problems, but it would still address most of the "LoL PvP" mentality and cynicism this community has had to adopt.
There's still the matter of AT balance though that NEEDS to be addressed in order to curtail FotM's at different levels of PvP interaction. IE:
<ul type="square">[*]Stalkers and Blasters are the Burst damage AT's, and as such, should have REAL VULNERABILITIES in teams. IE: lower Defense, -KB, & StatusProtect caps than any of the other Archetypes. Scaling by level of course... but something needs to be done to encourage players to play more than just Spikers in PvP. Unstoppable Spiker FotM's are the #1 reason that casual players avoid PvP...no one ENJOYS getting farmed over and over again by the same damn TankMage![*]Brutes should get a LARGE fury bonus based on the duration of every Taunt they cast. You can't "fix" Fury with traditional means, no opponent is stupid enough to intentionally HELP a brute build fury... you can only piggyback off the Dominator PvP-Inherent system and apply it to something non-DPS based like Taunt.[/list]
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.no one ENJOYS getting farmed over and over again by the same damn TankMage!
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personnally i would not mind if the "damn tankmage" is a good player.
the problem is that a FoTM can tear you apart even if it's his first PvP experience.
in the same way some build can kite, use lot of skill and so one to just be blocked by a xp or a single power and then destroyed in 10 seconde.
Right, that's my Point. I don't mind if the Blaster is one of the best players on the Server... he'll do that kinda thing anyway whether he has 220% DEF or 0%. My Problem is that a FotM Fire/EM can get buffed to the Gills and walk in and Farm the team's squishiest d00de without ever dying or being held himself. This is extremely Problematic for Villains who can't counter the levels of Unresistable damage and Accuracy that FotM has access to via Buff/Range stacking. The only guy on their Team who should be able to walk right into a Hornet's nest like that and live should be the Tanker, who DOESN'T have access to any form of unresistable damage, meaning the opposing team still has time to react. This is the central argument for why Casual's are excluded from most PvP, b/c they can't react fast enough to do anything besides get Farmed while also lacking the Gear/Skill to kill the other team's Spikers. Guildwars and other well balanced PvP games DON'T allow this kind of BS...even when the "Spiking" Class has huge amounts of Blocking or Armor, they're still vulnerable to a ton of other counters (Stripping, Conditions, Hexes, Energy Denial, Etc.)
Changes needed for PvP? You bet.
1) Prolong the fight, but dont prolong it through a binary means of 'you take damage, I heal you'. Enhancement diversification was a step in the right direction to ensure that kills required a mix of debuff and damage, however that wasn't enough as CoH PvP is missing a huge portion of its design concept through lessening the impact of crowd control. Stacking buffs such as Clear Mind and Clarity completely remove the aspect of crowd control (Hold, Snare, Fear, Disorient). Remove the stacking buffs and allow holds to actually work or rework these buffs to stack X number of times and work to decrease the cc duration by x%. Likely this will mean putting cc's on a longer recharge. If needed, make epic shields not drop while cc'd.
By correlation, redo Taunt's to function as a CC, and as the previous suggestion, increase recharge as necessary or even require the Tank/Scrapper to not switch targets away from the taunted for the taunts to last full duration.
These cc changes may require a reworking of cc's so they last a shorter period of time each time they are used before immunity, thus promoting a variety of cc's. Breakfree's would also likely need to be re-engineered to either a)decrease cc duration if popped premptively, b) protect against the next cc only or c) immediately break a cc but does not provide any further protection.
Remember this: Developers of other PvP games are seeking to extend the matches such that kills are garnered through coordination beyond simple damage spam. There's a reason for this: Forcing players to multitask beyond Buff/Debuff/Autofollow+spam ranged attacks provides depth to the game and allows for greater variety and longevity of the game.
2. Change the way Buffs/Debuffs work:
-Remove stacking debuffs
-Remove unresistable damage and debuffs
-Adjust 'unresistable' buffs.
-Introduce a means to remove buffs or reduce a buff's duration in PvP.
The whole nature of buffs in CoH is entirely fire and forget with the exception of Increase Density. As an example, the short duration of ID requires that the lone kinetic (on many teams) to be nothing short of amazing when required to keep both Speed Boost and ID on all of their teammates while trying to contribute with damage or cc. Often, ths is what separates a good kinetic from an amazing kinetic, because of the great deal of micromanagement going on. In fact, making some buffs be reactionary instead of proactive would vary the game play significantly. All buffs should function the same way such that each buffer should be presented with a choice on either refreshing expiring buffs or adding to another avenue of attack/defense. Having long duration stackable buffs reduces the decision points for those players.
By adding buff removal powers (long recharges please; dont make them spammable) buffers are forced to remain alert for removed buffs such as the ever important Speed Boost or Clear Mind. In conjunction with adding cc back into the game, this will further remove CoH from the formulaic approach to PvP with various buff classes. If you must, add these powers to archetypes that are rarely played or to powers that arent often taken.
When points 1 and 2 are taken together, and a coordinated burst or a target swap burst is executed properly, any character will be able to be dropped as they will not be getting chain healed on top of ever present powerboosted buffs. Furthermore, balanced game mechanics such as endurance recovery/drain will allow for a variety of teams to be considered. It's ludicrous that a couple of speed boosts will nullify any endurance drain in the game.
3) Give people a reason to bring a variety of classes into the arena. Giving Tanks a sizeable -healing debuff a la Poison Masterminds to their long recharge attacks would instantly make this class desireable. Give a Peacebringer/Warshade a unique IO set that allows their long recharge flight form blast to remove buffs and youve got a long range buff stripper/damage dealer. Normalize scrapper damage with blaster damage.
By correlation, give people a reason to bring a variety of powersets to the arena. Balance out effects with animation+recharge times such that powers with long animations+recharges. CoH's strength is the variety of its powersets. Play to it. Archery has long animations+recharge? Well, give it the most damaging attacks. Fire Control has fast animation and recharge immobilizes? Make their snare duration a bit shorter. You have infinite ways to make each set unique. Give people a reason to bring something different to each fight.
4) Remove Auto Follow in the Arena. There's no reason anyone can just target anyone without knowing where their target is or is moving to and automatically turn towards that target. If the intent is to stick with ranged attackers being dominant in the arena, they should at least work towards getting into range instead of just tab+autofollow. If playing melee is too difficult without this function, then allow it as self buff for melee. Call it scrapperlock or something.
5) Own your product. (no really, own it) As a company, promote a variety of formats and team sizes. It's great that your 'sanctioned' matches are 8v8, but having other 'official' ladders or NCSoft supported contests will bring people to the game. Where there's incentive, there's competition (which means more subscribers to generate more revenue for additional development). In addition, both smaller and larger team formats will allow more casual people to get into PvP. If there was an organized and official 2's ladder with prizes, you would see people coming out of the woodwork. Making the prizes be special costume pieces or in game titles or badges would further the participation. It doesnt have to always be money. A monthly PvP challenge that alternates between Base Raids, 4v4, 8v8, or 12v12 would be interesting!
While you're at it, automate your ladder! Make a website that automatically tracks individual rankings and statistics based off of information submitted by Team captains. This was a huge talking point of one of the now defunct leagues It can't be that hard. Give it a ELO rating system and devise an intelligent point system (to prevent win-trading)
Lastly, get behind your community! Many of us PvPer's who left the game left because the company didnt do anything to improve the PvP environment. The environment hasnt changed much more than a few power changes here and there and a few individuals who have taken up responsibilities to organize a community; that which should have been your responsibility in the first place.
The latest TPVPL is somewhat of a joke (no offense to the organizers) as an outsider looking in. You have this huge league that has been /signed by over 200 people, yet it will take months of hard work of non-NCSoft employees to organize and execute, while trying to maintain a) enough motivated captains, b) the motivation of the people who signed up and won't get to play for months c) the expectations of all the attendees at the start of the process and through the duration of the league. Can they do it? Probably. Would it be easier for them if they had the resources of NCSoft to help them with something as small a real signup page (LOL forum sign ups with KoS' 'just for my convenience' posts)? Definitely. Will the player draft probably be some god awful Forum draft, too? We'll see.
Bottom line (or TL;DR): NCSoft, you have a great game engine, and a resurgence in PvP activity. Don't throw this opportunity away by ignoring your playerbase or not learning from established PvP game design concepts from arguably more successful PvP MMO's. Understanding what draws active PvPers towards a game and keeps them there will guarantee you a following on top of the already strong PvE fanbase.
And now that Blasters have gotten their upgrade???
Get rid of their Fury Buildup on their Melee attacks...
and give then a 33% chance for their damage to be unresisted...
possibly unrelated but, i think we should be able to add villains to friends list , trade with them, etc. why can't we?
I would just pass over my hammi-os to my Dom. Apparently, the Devs have a problem with this. Since I don't want to do their crappy broken hamidon raid or their crappy broken Recluse's Strike Force.
PVP is in total need or a rework.
There is no reason whatsoever that I have to specificly build for pvp in a game where 95% of the action takes place in PVE.
As for any kind of reccommendations, get rid of the nerfs on me entering a zone and within 5 minutes I' out of end, yet when I roll through a mission, thats the last thing I have to worry about.
F^%$ PVP until we get a basic rewrite of the whole deal. 
Debuff heroes. Seriously. Help a villain out here.
Gimp AS. Make it take no more than 50% of your targets health. In turn give stalkers a moderate HP boost and raise the damage of every set besides EM by...well...alot. That AS+ET combo needs to be fixed.
Blasters are a touchy subject. Without inspirations or an emp they are weaksauce.
With them it's God mode.
What you do to them I don't know...
Gratz to whoever recommended tweaking CM/Clar/Thaw. Let's hope the change sticks for the short term.
I guess they don't like my idea of lowering the Status Protection cap on Spiking AT's.
But hey, it's still great news for Balanced Emp-blaster Teams (IE: Emp+Sonic Super-Teams)
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Gratz to whoever recommended tweaking CM/Clar/Thaw. Let's hope the change sticks for the short term.
I guess they don't like my idea of lowering the Status Protection cap on Spiking AT's.
But hey, it's still great news for Balanced Emp-blaster Teams (IE: Emp+Sonic Super-Teams)
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Ok, so now you have dom + emp = autowin? Dom + Emp was already better than blaster + emp imo when platyed right.
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Dom + Emp was already better than blaster + emp imo when played right.
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Which on freedumb... is all of 5 ppl, right?
(that was just a guess, I've actually only witnessed like 2 so far so that estimate might be high)
Ice/cold + emp
I'd do more, a LOT more if there was some sensible way by which I would not have to choose between a pvp and a pve build. Others have mentioned this, but it's a big sticking point for me.
In other words, 2 different builds for the same character.
ONE strictly PvE, and ONE strictly PvP. Same toon.
Just think Dev's because I am slotting up the same toon twice it's, YET ANOTHER INF SINK! WIN WIN!
Masterminds annoy everybody, sooner or later. Heck, Masterminds annoy themselves.
-ShadowsBetween