Consolidated Power and Weapon Customization Thread
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2007-09-08 16:38 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Back Alley Brawler: 09/2007
'Baked in' was in response to someone's comment that colors were baked into animations. The only thing really baked in are some colors into some particle textures and textures on geometry used in FX scripts. Most particle textures use a greyscale image that we tint to different hues in the particle scripts, but some of them we don't tint. It's enough that any sort of power customization to allow changing the hue of power effects we'd have to deal with them. That's not the only hurdle and it's really not even the biggest hurdle.
I really can't stress this enough, there's nothing insurmountably difficult about power color customization, it's just a tremendous amount of time to pull it off.
I am not sure if you will respond, but I will ask:
With the amount of time necessary to implement something like this would it cut into time developing new content so much so, as to stop us from receiving new content at all?
Sort of. It would completely dominate some of the artists' time for multiple issues. That would prevent any content from being developed that required any animation or FX. Obviously we'd be able to develop other things at the same time as this, but we'd definitely be doing the lion's share on this.
It would also require a chunk of support from programming. They'd have to implement the system to allow powers to reference different FX scripts or accept some kind of hue shift value, hook everything into some kind of UI so players could modify and see what they're modifying, possibly change the way character data is stored in the database, etc. I couldn't even begin to tell you the things programming would have to do to make this happen, but it's significant enough to cut into other features, bug fixes, or performance/stability improvements.
There are no costume effects triggered by powers, they're triggered by animations. In the case of Winged Boots, the effects are actually always on. They just have a scaler on the particle emitters that say emit more particles the faster the character is moving. So, whether the character is running, jumping, falling, flying, being knocked back doesn't matter. There is absolutely no way to tie costume pieces to power FX. The two systems are independent, completely unaware of each other, and there is no way to connect them.
Trust me, there is nothing that any player who has no idea how our systems work and what they are and aren't capable of doing is going to come up with an idea that we haven't already thought of. I've seen a few posts that come close to ideas we've already discarded as unfeasible, some that are decent ideas but simply don't work in our system, and the rest are generally in the category of sheer gibberish.
Even if we did figure out a super simple way to do this, the sheer number of powers and combinations alone makes this something that would take more than a single issue to develop. Potentially more than 2 or 3 issues.
It will never be scrapped. We never completely scrap any idea, no matter how impossible it might be at the time.
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I wouldn't mind if it was done sort of peicemeal, in the way portions of it are added in, even if it's 'behind the scenes' to be activated it all comes together.
Sure it would take longer to fully implement, but at least other things like bug fixing, server stabilizing, content, etc. won't have to take a back seat to it (let alone backburnered).
It would be cool to see how (existing) powers would look when the player picks power sets at character creation and at the tailor. Even if you can't currently change the colours/shades, you'd be able to check out what the character would look like with a flaming sword or drawing out a bow or being buffed with Build up.
And being able to do that would be a step in the direction of power customization, without going all the way as of yet.
well in a sense someone could do that with some nice photoshop editing...take some screenies of the power sets in use and then apply some custom looks to them...post a link to those images here just so you can show people what pc would look like for weapons and powers
I was just wondering, would anyone be happy with a lesser version of power customization?
When I mean is that we're probably thinking of something with costume creator power, but as far as I can tell from what the Devs said, it's not going to happen any time soon. Instead, what if we got copies of current powersets with a different color "baked in"?
For example:
Energy Melee (Red) - The current one.
Energy Melee (Blue) - What Luminary uses.
Energy Melee (Green) - Maybe taken from the Shivans.
or
Broad Sword (Classic) - What we have now.
Broad Sword (Tech) - What the Knives of Artemis use
Broad Sword (Magic) - Maybe taken from the CoT or Necro pets.
or
Invulnerability (White) - The Hero one.
Invulnerability (Black) - The Villain one.
Invulnerability (Gold) - A new one, for the shinyness.
That way we could still have some influence over how our powers look, but we wouldn't need to rewrite half the game to do it. A powerset is a powerset, this one is just another color.
Would we be happy with something like this? I'd be, but would you?
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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I was just wondering, would anyone be happy with a lesser version of power customization?
When I mean is that we're probably thinking of something with costume creator power, but as far as I can tell from what the Devs said, it's not going to happen any time soon. Instead, what if we got copies of current powersets with a different color "baked in"?
For example:
Energy Melee (Red) - The current one.
Energy Melee (Blue) - What Luminary uses.
Energy Melee (Green) - Maybe taken from the Shivans.
or
Broad Sword (Classic) - What we have now.
Broad Sword (Tech) - What the Knives of Artemis use
Broad Sword (Magic) - Maybe taken from the CoT or Necro pets.
or
Invulnerability (White) - The Hero one.
Invulnerability (Black) - The Villain one.
Invulnerability (Gold) - A new one, for the shinyness.
That way we could still have some influence over how our powers look, but we wouldn't need to rewrite half the game to do it. A powerset is a powerset, this one is just another color.
Would we be happy with something like this? I'd be, but would you?
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See, this is very much along the lines of what I was thinking about it. I've wondered if maybe the way to color customization is simply new powersets that are recolored versions of the old sets. You've brought up a good point that some of this stuff exists already, just not for PCs. The stumbling block for me on that idea though, is that it would only benefit new characters-- you can't re-choose your power sets in a respec. 
But you've helped indicate which powersets would best benefit from coloring options; it's been correctly suggested that some sets probably wouldn't, such as Stone armor, etc. To me, the sets that benefit the most from color customization are the energy related ones: fire, electricity, energy, radiation, even dark. I'd love to see a white version of the dark set.
.
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Global @ARH
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I was just wondering, would anyone be happy with a lesser version of power customization?
When I mean is that we're probably thinking of something with costume creator power, but as far as I can tell from what the Devs said, it's not going to happen any time soon. Instead, what if we got copies of current powersets with a different color "baked in"?
For example:
Energy Melee (Red) - The current one.
Energy Melee (Blue) - What Luminary uses.
Energy Melee (Green) - Maybe taken from the Shivans.
or
Broad Sword (Classic) - What we have now.
Broad Sword (Tech) - What the Knives of Artemis use
Broad Sword (Magic) - Maybe taken from the CoT or Necro pets.
or
Invulnerability (White) - The Hero one.
Invulnerability (Black) - The Villain one.
Invulnerability (Gold) - A new one, for the shinyness.
That way we could still have some influence over how our powers look, but we wouldn't need to rewrite half the game to do it. A powerset is a powerset, this one is just another color.
Would we be happy with something like this? I'd be, but would you?
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See, this is very much along the lines of what I was thinking about it. I've wondered if maybe the way to color customization is simply new powersets that are recolored versions of the old sets. You've brought up a good point that some of this stuff exists already, just not for PCs. The stumbling block for me on that idea though, is that it would only benefit new characters-- you can't re-choose your power sets in a respec.
But you've helped indicate which powersets would best benefit from coloring options; it's been correctly suggested that some sets probably wouldn't, such as Stone armor, etc. To me, the sets that benefit the most from color customization are the energy related ones: fire, electricity, energy, radiation, even dark. I'd love to see a white version of the dark set.
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Stone armor isn't that hard to think of alternates for.
Stone Armor (Rock) - The current one
Stone Armor (Crystal) - Like the crystal DE, will change into one of those for Granite form
Stone Armor (Earth) - A less jagged, more black/brown version. Maybe the old version made stackable?
As a side note, I'd love to see a crystal version of the Stone Mallets. Maybe as an axe?
Martial Arts is going to be a bit left out, Super Strength, too, but they'd be hard to think of a way to color for a more complex system as is. Also, the Mastermind pets might be difficult to change, too. But most powers have some kind of colored effect going on or a drawn weapon and I'd imagine a lot of AR Blasters and Corrs would love to replace the Frankengun with something else.
Anyway, an idea like this would have to be handled in stages, since I'd imagine recoloring a powerset isn't an easy task. I'd like s system that would allow a limited power color respec, meaning if you have a powerset that's changed, that character would be allowed to repick the color once. I know the FF Defender in my sig could go for the Legacy Chain pure white Energy Blasts.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
That is not lesser. That is precisely what has been proposed in the past, and shot down.
No matter how few options, it's still a doubling or tripling of what exists now.
No matter how few options, it's still something that requires a new system to store, edit, and transmit that information from user/server/viewers.
You're not saving them any work by proposing that there are only 3 options per powerset.
They've tested exactly what you're asking for. That's why there are red and yellow versions of some standard Energy Blast powers. They redo the power in a new color and based on that they can do simple addition to see how long it would take to do all powers. They've done it.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
It IS the lesser version. The greater version goes something like this:
"For every powerset make a greyscale version and allow us to change primary/secondary colors of the power like we can in the costume creator."
This not only means to have to recolor every single power in the game, but also to add at least four new values per character in the database. Pirmary color 1 and 2, and secondary color 1 and 2. Then the game must reference these values and add them to a greyscale version of the power every time a power is used.
Compare that to "Copy the powersets and lets us pick a different colored one." and there's a major difference. This should work mostly like a powerset addition, which we know is possible since it has happened several times already.
The big hurdle I see here is existing characters, but finding a way to allow a character to change a powerset to a different colored copy sounds to me like less work than making every single power infinitely recolorable and make that look good.
Also, with this method, power colors could be added gradualy. Maybe Energy Blast in one issue and new swords in another. It's not an all or nothing deal like the greater version is.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Hurray for continuing to ignore every discussion on Power Customization that's ever been had!
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I was just wondering, would anyone be happy with a lesser version of power customization?
When I mean is that we're probably thinking of something with costume creator power, but as far as I can tell from what the Devs said, it's not going to happen any time soon. Instead, what if we got copies of current powersets with a different color "baked in"?
For example:
Energy Melee (Red) - The current one.
Energy Melee (Blue) - What Luminary uses.
Energy Melee (Green) - Maybe taken from the Shivans.
or
Broad Sword (Classic) - What we have now.
Broad Sword (Tech) - What the Knives of Artemis use
Broad Sword (Magic) - Maybe taken from the CoT or Necro pets.
or
Invulnerability (White) - The Hero one.
Invulnerability (Black) - The Villain one.
Invulnerability (Gold) - A new one, for the shinyness.
That way we could still have some influence over how our powers look, but we wouldn't need to rewrite half the game to do it. A powerset is a powerset, this one is just another color.
Would we be happy with something like this? I'd be, but would you?
[/ QUOTE ]
See, this is very much along the lines of what I was thinking about it. I've wondered if maybe the way to color customization is simply new powersets that are recolored versions of the old sets. You've brought up a good point that some of this stuff exists already, just not for PCs. The stumbling block for me on that idea though, is that it would only benefit new characters-- you can't re-choose your power sets in a respec.
But you've helped indicate which powersets would best benefit from coloring options; it's been correctly suggested that some sets probably wouldn't, such as Stone armor, etc. To me, the sets that benefit the most from color customization are the energy related ones: fire, electricity, energy, radiation, even dark. I'd love to see a white version of the dark set.
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Umm... wouldn't a white version of the dark set be like... a light set? But it's still called dark?
Maybe it's "light dark" or "white dark"?
I don't get it. Maybe some things don't need to be customized.
Global- @SailorET, Justice Server
Sheryl Fiero, 50 AR/Devices Blaster
Louise Fiero, 50 Merc/Traps MM
Various assorted alts
Proudly serving in our military so you don't have to.
Here are some Powers customization you can root for... if you have a vampire...
Dark moves (Ranged) - Bats - Bats flying towards enemies.
Stealth (All things from the concealment pool except Grant Invisibility) - Mist - You will transform into a dense white fog.
Flight (Hover or Fly) - Bat - You transform into a bat.
Hey i'd like to have a character with these modifications
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Hurray for continuing to ignore every discussion on Power Customization that's ever been had!
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Hooray for shooting down suggestions without either:
A: Providing useful critisim.
B: Linking to previous discussions about that specefic suggrestions.
After all, since you claim this has been shot down several times in the past, you can easily provide a link, right? In fact, the burden of proof is on you now. Prove your claim. Link me.
Hooray for ignoring the current discussion about Power Customization. While I made a suggestion for implemeting Power Customization, my original post was aking if an implementation like this was good enough for us that want Power Customization in the game.
So again, hooray for actually reading the posts!
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
dont much care for color changes or power customization..though that would be fun if it was around--what id love would be able to change weapons---for example.
im sure no one likes the Swiss-Army-gun for assault rifles..all its missing is duct tape holding all that crap on. :P
It is becoming a habit. I sometimes wounder if Lemur doesn't have an irrational hatred of PC.
Types of Swords
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It is becoming a hbit. I sometimes wounder if Lemur doesn't have an irrational hatred of PC.
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Well, someone has to. It's pretty much a law here on the forum that no matter the suggestion, someone will hate it, some times for no reason at all. You get used to it after a while.
But on a more constructive note, what powersets do actually have a NPC only recolor/model in the game? There's a variety of guns and the like for Assault Rifle, but there's no other all-in-one rifle. The Commando even uses the Frankengun.
Energy Blast and Melee have a white and a blue respectively. Red Energy Blast is somewhat playable on a Dominator. The Knives use special swords, so do the CoT and various others like the BP. Well, the BP use clubs or axes. Malaise uses darker Illusion pets, and Silver Mantis has a metallic Spines set.
Then there's the "one side only" animations. Darker Dark Miasma, Dark Armor, Fire Amor and Invul, for instance. Red Electic attacks that arc out from the Mu. Ghost Widow has some recolored soul versions of Dark powers. Also the Stalker Claws look a lot more deadly than the Scrapper ones. We have a lot of recolors in the game already. They're just not available.
I can see why the Devs would hesitate in letting us use these. It's a Pandora's Box. Release White Energy Blasts only and the forums would go nuts. Everyone wants to see their favorite powerset get the love and a lot will scream about it until it happens.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Don't forget Silver Mantis and her awsome thorns/spines, and Mantacore's bow. I could go on, but my wife is calling me for dinner.
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Yeah, as a temporary measure, I could go with the powers and weapons used by our enemies..as options. Certainly, the entire 'blade/axe/katana' and AR powers either need these options or a complete redo. They're just ridiculous looking. Oh, and that hovering technocratic eyeball thing.
I can't stand taking any of that with a magick origin. Pathetic.
So, whatever needs to be done in the most cost effective option I'm all for. It's extremely irritating to not have PC when I can CC all I want.
So, the Team needs to burn the midnight oil for a bit and get this coded and launched asap, IMO.
Cal
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It is becoming a habit. I sometimes wounder if Lemur doesn't have an irrational hatred of PC.
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Not that I think he needs my defense, but I am not sure that that is a fair characterization of Lemur. While he is a very critical person, I think, from what I have gathered reading his posts, that it comes from a very logical mindset and less from an emotional place (although I have no doubt that illogical statements irk the heck out of him/her).
I think that BAB did talk about the RGB values. And did discuss why simply changing them would not work. it should be linked at the beginning of this thread.
Well with the pics of Dual scimitars floating around, our hopes and dreams of it being a selectable weapon model may be in the crapper. Keep you fingers crossed that I am wrong.
Also my comment about Lemur was in jest.
Types of Swords
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heh, I dont mind PC so much as long as there will be some way to have alternate graphics at some point and time.
Example: For a few months I sported a nice light blue katana instead of the standard one. It was one of those skin types that only you the player can see, all other players see the standard model. If one of those gets made for Dual Blades, the I will be happy...I want me a Dual Katana scrapper!
"You, dear sir, are a legend. "- nelly. "PIE DOESN'T HAVE TENTACLES!"
Bladewing Draconian lvl 30 KAT/SR scrapper
DarkNinjutsu lvl 50 DM/REG scrapper
Dajoji Hino lvl 50 elm/ela scrapper
Bloody Byakko lvl 20 claws/sr scrapper
Not sure if it was ever suggested...
But for Masterminds, why not "Multiples" or "Clones" like multiple man? It shouldn't be that big of a streach. The benefit could be sheer numbers of clones, the negative no diversity.
Another option for Tankers: Steel Armor (ex. Colossus).
Finally, is there a way to make Super Strength a little more interesting to watch. I am falling asleep.
(QR)
Weapons Customization in Issue 11!
That is all. 
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
I want to point out something... some people said Weapon Customization would 'never happen' and attempted to discourage the conversation from happening. (And being that the 'Back' menu doesn't appear in the image of WC, there's a slight chance this could still be a silly hoax.)
Nyanny nyah nyah, nyanny nyah-nyah-nyah. 
Now that that's out of my system... going forward... could we try to be a little more tolerant of ideas coming out of the woodwork? We don't yet know how we got to this point, what eureka-flash made what Cryptic said wouldn't happen suddenly happen, but you never know-- could have been something they read here that, even wrong, sparked the right answer.
And anyway you slice it-- this is where people should throw those ideas out, even the ludicrous and already rejected ones.
Food for thought.
I just came in to say,
WELL, WELL, WELL.
OH, OH, OH.
WHAT HAVE WE HERE?
I still dream of color customization, but they really pulled a rabbit out of the hat with this one.
.
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Invasion on Earth BX1132! (poster 1) - (poster 2) - Arc ID# 98943 (comments)
Global @ARH
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I would rather them stick to the current model, and it be free. Now if the only way (which I don't thing it is) to get PC is a paid expansion I would do it.
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