Discussion: Additional Patch Notes
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2007-08-16 13:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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The combative inhabitants in a zone will move off the streets and to safer locations when a Rikti Invasion takes place.
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... but the civilians don't.
Remarkable.
The combat NPCs don't move around much. It's the cars that continue to drive around on the roads, and the couple of hundred NPCs walking around, that are making the lion's share of the network traffic in the zones with the worst lag. And it makes even less sense for them to ignore the Rikti; they're unarmed! That first blast of the alarm siren should trigger the panic emote, then a dash to the door, for every pedestrian non-combat NPC, and every car should stop in its tracks and not move until the all clear signal.
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Actually, the last few invasions I've seen, civilians do head for the hills in panic (Except maybe CoV? Didn't pay attention last raid in CoV).
However, we're still getting hit by cars, and the contact NPCs are rock stead (although it would be a nuisance IMO for contacts to disappear during a raid, albeit a temporary one).
At least make traffic stop or disappear as well, just for lack of another annoyance. Unless they're heading out of town at 90 MPH; now that would be humorous 
I totally don't mind the non-healing of RV heavies. My badger can't heal. I never even bother helping the heavy to fight the turrets. 'Cause AR/Dev is really awful at that. I just hide and go "att agg" and the robot smashes stuff. Normally I can run through about 2-4 zone reversions, without anyone else in the zone helping/hindering, before it would die and I'd have to get another. Sure, it regenned, but whatever. Makes it even easier to get the heavy-grabbing badge when they die without people 'helping' by healing it or it regenning.
Having the enemies run out of a zone is great for running lowbies of mine around dangerous zones (like level 15s around Talos to sell at shops and WW easier).
Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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I thought 'scenery' civilians did not create lag and 'active' critters (with powers and so forth) did?
Maybe 50 scenery civvies only create as much lag as 3 or 4 combat spawns?
As far as the Heavies go, maybe there were complaints from players about the Heavies that the Devs are addressing? Haven't been on the PvP forums lately, just asking.
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The complaint was about "AFK Farming," where someone would park a heavy in a defensive mode (I think) in the street where there was a regular patrol, and go AFK somewhere safe like the base - the heavy would sit there and just wipe out spawn after spawn.
Making them unhealable doesn't really address this - if someone went AFK in any sort of healing range, they're easy prey to *anyone* from another faction in the zone.
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If the assertion of AFK camping while in your base is correct, a timer on the Heavies would have been much more preferable to this solution, IMHO. I'll agree that changing the regen and healing attributes of the Heavies makes them far less valuable when taking out pillboxes and signature AVs.
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Making them unhealable doesn't really address this - if someone went AFK in any sort of healing range, they're easy prey to *anyone* from another faction in the zone.
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!?!?!?? I don't follow this at all. First off, how do you place a heavy somewhere that it can shoot at NPC enemies but players can't touch it? Second, how is it that the heavy can't be healed by an emp defender with heal aura when it's in this spot??
This Heavy change is Sooo not needed.
Please turn this change back.
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Have Fun & Stay Safe
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The combative inhabitants in a zone will move off the streets and to safer locations when a Rikti Invasion takes place.
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Chase will have to change his Guide to Issue 10 comic.
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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Plus, nothing beats seeing a lone Carny in PI get nuked by the big double laser cannon.
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Amen! I'd pay good money anyday to see that! 
Rook
Healing nerf: Not needed.
Timer: Preferable.
The heavy change is a bit much, but perhaps we would understand where you are going if you explained what the heavy's use is in the zone.
Is it to ward off players, fend off arch-villains, conquer pillboxes? Right now their durability is just inferior for many of those tasks. Do you view them as a sort of temp power reward?
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Longbow and Arachnos Heavies used in Recluse's Victory can no longer be healed.
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My Empath badger will see perma-debt in RV now. Additionally the Pillbox badges are now further out of reach. This is a bad change.
Suggestions:
Reduce Pillbox badges (the third one a LOT) 10-50-100.
Buff the damage output/speed of the heavies.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
The nerfs were the wrong way to go. I have a better idea actually.
Problem:
Afk farmers were using heavies to get free xp and inf without doing anything.
Solution:
Introduce a badge for defeating player controlled heavies and/or code them to give xp and inf on defeat.
Explaination:
Heavies were already far easier to destroy in RV than the players that control them, especially experienced players.
Afk farming works because players ignore heavies without operators since they give no reward and aren't bothering them.
If there were a badge for defeating heavies every badger over 40 would waste any heavy left unattended.
Heavies don't need regen nerfs or healing nerfs anyway. They can still kill any patrol that comes along with ease at normal damage. The only thing that got nerfed is the ability to use the heavy for taking pillboxes or signature characters.
Maybe I should start a new thread with this idea to go off of.
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The Heavy change was a stupid one. It disadvantages the people who were using them in any form of legitimate way as a means to stop "AFK Farming". This is a terrible decision that actually helps an AFKer as they can set it and walk away until it's destroyed. Rinse and Repeat.
The biggest problem with this Heavy nerf is not that it happened, it's that it took so long to come in.
That aside, Heavies have been noted as being overpowered for quite a while now, even when they weren't being used for AFK farming. Putting a timer in would simply make farmers come back every X minutes to pick up a replacement heavy, return to their spot of choice, then go afk again.
What this change has done is a move towards forcing players to team up if they want to take on the PvE objectives in RV, instead on relying on soloing with the Heavies. This is probably closer to how the devs saw players conducting themselves in the zone. Players used to the now non-viable "solo with a heavy" method aren't going to be happy with this change.
However: yes, the pillbox badge requirements are ridiculous. The 10 - 50 - 100 progression makes a lot more sense.
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I can't say that I was heavily into RV to begin with but now that the heavies have been nerfed this much, well, I have other things I can do with my time anyway. PvP isn't my cup of tea, but because of the badges in RV I at least gave it a shot. The heavies allowed me to actually accomplish some progress on the pillbox badges.
Oh well, I knew I'd never be able to get every badge in the game for various reasons, time being the biggest factor. Now I can cross the rest of those RV badges off my list of ones to get.
So, thanks, I guess. 
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The combative inhabitants in a zone will move off the streets and to safer locations when a Rikti Invasion takes place.
[/ QUOTE ]
... but the civilians don't.
Remarkable.
The combat NPCs don't move around much. It's the cars that continue to drive around on the roads, and the couple of hundred NPCs walking around, that are making the lion's share of the network traffic in the zones with the worst lag. And it makes even less sense for them to ignore the Rikti; they're unarmed! That first blast of the alarm siren should trigger the panic emote, then a dash to the door, for every pedestrian non-combat NPC, and every car should stop in its tracks and not move until the all clear signal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the last few invasions I've seen, civilians do head for the hills in panic (Except maybe CoV? Didn't pay attention last raid in CoV).
However, we're still getting hit by cars, and the contact NPCs are rock stead (although it would be a nuisance IMO for contacts to disappear during a raid, albeit a temporary one).
At least make traffic stop or disappear as well, just for lack of another annoyance. Unless they're heading out of town at 90 MPH; now that would be humorous
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Yes, in the next patch, Positron and Valkyrie, instead of standing around oblivious as the city crumbles around them, will now run away making scared girly noises like the useless idiots they are. :P
SadysCHICK ALL the Badges! (I can get. 1396)
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At this point, you may as well just remove the heavies entirely. You can't use them for pillbox captures, you can't use them to help knock over the signature characters, and players generally ignore them when PvPing. What good are they now?
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Best idea yet, and one that PvPers have been asking for from the begining.
Get rid of the Heavies.
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Making them unhealable doesn't really address this - if someone went AFK in any sort of healing range, they're easy prey to *anyone* from another faction in the zone.
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!?!?!?? I don't follow this at all. First off, how do you place a heavy somewhere that it can shoot at NPC enemies but players can't touch it? Second, how is it that the heavy can't be healed by an emp defender with heal aura when it's in this spot??
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What?
They'd place the heavy, and the *player* would go into the base and go AFK. Not the heavy. The *player* would be completely safe. The Heavy would be sitting out there blasting at whatever patrol went by, and the player would be pulling in INF, recipes, and the like.
Clearer?
One part of this is awesome beyond belief. I can't wait to see Lusca and Paladin running away from the Rikti. Will they head for the nearest doorway? If so how will they get in?
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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They'd place the heavy, and the *player* would go into the base and go AFK. Not the heavy. The *player* would be completely safe. The Heavy would be sitting out there blasting at whatever patrol went by, and the player would be pulling in INF, recipes, and the like.
Clearer?
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Then the simple solution should have been to eliminate the ability to be AFK for more than 15 minutes, even if on a Task or Strike Force.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
What this change has done is a move towards forcing players to team up if they want to take on the PvE objectives in RV, instead on relying on soloing with the Heavies. This is probably closer to how the devs saw players conducting themselves in the zone. Players used to the now non-viable "solo with a heavy" method aren't going to be happy with this change.
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However, that WAS how I used them. They were extra Elite Boss damage to add into a fight with a team. They made fighting the RV AVs a lot more managable as well. So I guess I'm in the remove the Heavies crowd now.
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I can't say that I was heavily into RV to begin with but now that the heavies have been nerfed this much, well, I have other things I can do with my time anyway. PvP isn't my cup of tea, but because of the badges in RV I at least gave it a shot. The heavies allowed me to actually accomplish some progress on the pillbox badges.
<snip>
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Personally I'm not a big fan of PvP, and I solo quite a bit, so it appears that RV can be crossed off the list of places I need to go back to for badges as well.
*shrugs* No big loss, I guess. Just another area I'll avoid now, like the other PvP zones.
Quote:
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
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They'd place the heavy, and the *player* would go into the base and go AFK. Not the heavy. The *player* would be completely safe. The Heavy would be sitting out there blasting at whatever patrol went by, and the player would be pulling in INF, recipes, and the like.
Clearer?
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Then the simple solution should have been to eliminate the ability to be AFK for more than 15 minutes, even if on a Task or Strike Force.
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No, a better change would be to make the heavies leave your control once you're a certain distance away, rather like losing the benefits of sidekick/lackey. Then you wouldn't have afk farming anymore, if I understand the idea correctly. No?
Quote:
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
Well, no reason to bother with RV now. Since most of the time its void of pvp, and since no team goes there, and you really can't use the heavies (unless you want to do the silly afk farming--which this change DOESN'T solve), I guess I can cross it off as a legitimate zone finally.
Just like bloody bay.
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Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The combative inhabitants in a zone will move off the streets and to safer locations when a Rikti Invasion takes place.
[/ QUOTE ]
... but the civilians don't.
Remarkable.
The combat NPCs don't move around much. It's the cars that continue to drive around on the roads, and the couple of hundred NPCs walking around, that are making the lion's share of the network traffic in the zones with the worst lag. And it makes even less sense for them to ignore the Rikti; they're unarmed! That first blast of the alarm siren should trigger the panic emote, then a dash to the door, for every pedestrian non-combat NPC, and every car should stop in its tracks and not move until the all clear signal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the last few invasions I've seen, civilians do head for the hills in panic (Except maybe CoV? Didn't pay attention last raid in CoV).
However, we're still getting hit by cars, and the contact NPCs are rock stead (although it would be a nuisance IMO for contacts to disappear during a raid, albeit a temporary one).
At least make traffic stop or disappear as well, just for lack of another annoyance. Unless they're heading out of town at 90 MPH; now that would be humorous
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, in the next patch, Positron and Valkyrie, instead of standing around oblivious as the city crumbles around them, will now run away making scared girly noises like the useless idiots they are. :P
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Positron- "Wait a minute! Those aren't gray to me!! Mommie!!!" 
I've never been to RV. I'm not into the pvp or badge collecting so the heavy changes don't affect me, but I can understand people getting upset about it since it looks to be another way the devs are trying to force thier playstyle onto everybody else.
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I thought 'scenery' civilians did not create lag and 'active' critters (with powers and so forth) did?
Maybe 50 scenery civvies only create as much lag as 3 or 4 combat spawns?
As far as the Heavies go, maybe there were complaints from players about the Heavies that the Devs are addressing? Haven't been on the PvP forums lately, just asking.
[/ QUOTE ]
The complaint was about "AFK Farming," where someone would park a heavy in a defensive mode (I think) in the street where there was a regular patrol, and go AFK somewhere safe like the base - the heavy would sit there and just wipe out spawn after spawn.
Making them unhealable doesn't really address this - if someone went AFK in any sort of healing range, they're easy prey to *anyone* from another faction in the zone.