Discussion: Additional Patch Notes
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2007-08-16 13:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Well, there go any hopes I had of ever getting the 1000 pillboxes badge on my Mastermind. Bye bye to my last reason to ever set a foot in that zone (and keep in mind, I'm a PVPer).
Linna
Matt Miller: The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the �equivalent� powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character.
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At this point, you may as well just remove the heavies entirely. You can't use them for pillbox captures, you can't use them to help knock over the signature characters, and players generally ignore them when PvPing. What good are they now?
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Please, dont exagerate. I went into RV yesterday with my Blaster and using the same one heavy took out two pillboxes. And most if not all Blasters will atest to the fact that pillboxes will pummel a Blaster solo.
High Beam - 50 Blaster Energy/Ice - 1228 Badges
Munitions Mistress - 50 Mercs/Traps
Many Other 50's, Too Many Alts, All On Freedom
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!
Simpler solution I didn't see mentioned: remove patrols.
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Yes, in the next patch, Positron and Valkyrie, instead of standing around oblivious as the city crumbles around them, will now run away making scared girly noises like the useless idiots they are. :P
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Future patch: "Players in Skyway City during invasions may pick up Synapse and throw him at the Rikti."
I wonder if anyone on the dev team is actually reading this?
And BB isn't useless: I go in there to farm a Shivan Shard before a mission I don't feel 100% confident on. Very useful.
Hello, my name is @Caligdoiel and I'm an altoholic.
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[*] The combative inhabitants in a zone will move off the streets and to safer locations when a Rikti Invasion takes place.
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Now that is a shame if they are all gonna disappear. I always figured an invasion wasy like a Free Experience Announcement.
Forget the Bombs and Rikti I just start soloing bosses and mobs in the zone when I see the red warnings, 0 debt = 0 risk!
Huh maybe that was part of the problem... 
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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They'd place the heavy, and the *player* would go into the base and go AFK. Not the heavy. The *player* would be completely safe. The Heavy would be sitting out there blasting at whatever patrol went by, and the player would be pulling in INF, recipes, and the like.
Clearer?
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Then the simple solution should have been to eliminate the ability to be AFK for more than 15 minutes, even if on a Task or Strike Force.
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No, a better change would be to make the heavies leave your control once you're a certain distance away, rather like losing the benefits of sidekick/lackey. Then you wouldn't have afk farming anymore, if I understand the idea correctly. No?
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This is actually not a bad idea at all. Find some way to implement a solution similar to what happens when an SKd Mastermind is out of Mentor range too long. Pets all go poof.
If the problem is AFK farming from a distance, this deals with it pretty adequately.
The problem with these changes as they are is they hinder the usability of the Heavy on almost every level.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
*Looks at the mushroom cloud forming over the crater where the house used to be.* Five kilotons. . . okay. . . that's one way ta get rid of the roaches.
And, OF COURSE, this hits villains harder than heroes. Since the Villain heavy deals it's best damage in melee, it has to A) go into melee and get chopped apart by four turrets at once or B) get whittled down by one or two turrets while it chips away at them. I keep hoping, hoping, HOPING that the devs'll make a change or do something that doesn't rake villains over the coals. . . recently, I'm wondering more and more why I bother.
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Please use this thread to discuss the below announcement:
We wanted to let you know that we added two entries to the Patch Notes for the current live version:
<ul type="square">[*] Longbow and Arachnos Heavies used in Recluse's Victory can no longer be healed. [/list]
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Then, care to cut by half at least, the RV pillboxes/heavies badges ?
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Amen
Suriel- Scrapper MA/SR
Star Centurion- Peacebringer
War Forger- Blaster EB/Devices
Dedjinn- Stalker CL/DA
Cycnus- Mastermind Mercs/Traps
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At this point, you may as well just remove the heavies entirely. You can't use them for pillbox captures, you can't use them to help knock over the signature characters, and players generally ignore them when PvPing. What good are they now?
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Please, dont exagerate. I went into RV yesterday with my Blaster and using the same one heavy took out two pillboxes. And most if not all Blasters will atest to the fact that pillboxes will pummel a Blaster solo.
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A whole two pillboxes!
That is SOOOOO vastly overpowered!
Why, you'll only need to do that another 500 times to get the last badge...
/sarcasm off
The change is stupid. Plain and simple. Combine an unhealable, unbuffable pet with a majority of people who play squishy characters combined with taking out four lvl54 bosses that can all cover each other.
Reduce the number of pillboxes needed for the last badge to the number needed for the last Heavy badge.
Of course, knowing Dev logic, they'll simply increase the Heavy badge to match the Pillbox badge...wish I had done the pillbox switching when I could...
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Please use this thread to discuss the below announcement:
<ul type="square">[*] Longbow and Arachnos Heavies used in Recluse's Victory can no longer be healed.[/list]
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This needs to be revoked. If you want to get rid of the heavies being used for farming over long periods of time just put a badge on them. That way you give the players something instead of taking something away and get the same result win-win.
Not as good as an idea, but put a progressive XP bonus depending on how long they've been out.
IF no healing is set in stone...
<ul type="square">[*] Reduce the last pill box badge requirement.
[*] Have AVs/Heroes show up as one or two not two or three
[*] If not reduced have AVs/Heroes stand further apart so they can be pulled.[/list]
Poison Pill
Personally I wish they had implimented the team rule on heavies. You know, the one where if a teammate is more than a certain distance from you in a zone you get no reward for thier defeats. That would make the farmers stick close to get thier reward and expose them to risk.
I agree this no heal change is just bad.
The more I see changes going on the more it becomes clearer and clearer. The developers WANT players to team up.
If you find anything which may allow you to solo, expect a patch note sometime soon.
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
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It'll make the heavy badges unobtainable, but you can always just delete the badges too, since in this case player unhappiness seems not to matter too much.
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Actually, it'll make the Heavy badge MORE obtainable by not having Heavies locked to certain people for farming purposes. It's # of heavies picked up, not the length of time you own them.
It WILL make the PB badge that much harder though, and I'm in agreement that the requirements for the pillbox badge, at least, be cut in half.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
I really, really think the heavy nerf is over the top. Reducing the regen to 0 made sense as a quick way to stop AFK farming. If you didn't want to come up with a new system to create a teammate effect (i.e., must be in rnage) or if there was something that made a timer undoable, sure, okay, it's lazy and it punishes everyone for the bad behavior of a few, but whatever.
Making heavies unhealable doesn't effect afk farmers (who are in their bases afk, and not healing their heavies), but does punish live, active players who want to use heavies to take over pillboxes, defeat AVs, and otherwise participate in the zone minigames.
I have to agree the healing nerf on heavies makes little to no sense. There are far better ways to handle AFK farming. Several interesting ideas have alerady been listed in the thread.
My badger is an ill/emp troller.
Let's take a look at my emp side and what's been nerfed on RV's heavies.
Healing Aura - Worthless
Heal Other - Worthless
Resurrect - Worthless
Clear Mind - Worthless
Fortitude - Neutered defense buff of 58% now.. oh joy
Recovery Aura - Worthless (I've never seen a heavy with end issues)
Regenerating Aura - Worthless
Adrenalin Boost - I believe the +recharge still works but given the movement rate reductions I wouldn't bet on it.
So basically my ENTIRE secondary is worthless? GREAT JOB!
As several people have already suggested. Cut the number of pillboxes from 1000 to something reasonable? 250 to match the heavies?
How about you just make it so you don't get any xp etc. when you are AFK.
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They'd place the heavy, and the *player* would go into the base and go AFK. Not the heavy. The *player* would be completely safe. The Heavy would be sitting out there blasting at whatever patrol went by, and the player would be pulling in INF, recipes, and the like.
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Oh, so it's the PLAYER that is safe, not the heavy. And you're saying the no-heal bit does nothing to stop this. OK.
But is that what they are trying to stop with this particular nerf? Such a heavy would only really be helping to defend the already-heavily-defended base, not knocking over most of the pill boxes while everyone was out. Could be the no-regen is to help against that tactic and the no-heal is to keep people from taking out pillboxes solo, or at least slow them down.
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Why, you'll only need to do that another 500 times to get the last badge...
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Or you could, I don't know, maybe PLAY THE GAME? Get a team and destroy pillboxes, hopefully with some resistance put up by the other side? After all, that's what the badge is actually for.
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Why, you'll only need to do that another 500 times to get the last badge...
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Or you could, I don't know, maybe PLAY THE GAME? Get a team and destroy pillboxes, hopefully with some resistance put up by the other side? After all, that's what the badge is actually for.
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No, it's not what the badge is for.
The badge is for taking control of 1000 pillboxes. That's it.
It's not for PvP. It's not for 'getting a team'. It's not for fighting against some imaginary 'resistance'.
Using a heavy IS part of taking down pillboxes, since only a minority of badging characters are able to do so in relative safety solo. Not to mention actually finding a team in the for the most part, empty wasteland that is RV on all but Freedom and Virtue servers.
If they want the Pillboxes to be team-only content, then come out and say it. Not this nickel-and-diming everything to death on taking them on.
Edit - Not to mention, why is it whenever one of these nerfs rolls around, there's always someone who will invariably say 'Get a team' like teaming is the solution to every problem?
Or the inevitable 'Play the game' comment.
Gee I guess I wasn't playing the game when I was fighting pillboxes with my Heavy. Guess that was just some dream, huh?
Edit ^2 - And quite honestly, I am tired of getting punished repeatedly for the actions of a very few.
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Using a heavy IS part of taking down pillboxes, since only a minority of badging characters are able to do so in relative safety solo. Not to mention actually finding a team in the for the most part, empty wasteland that is RV on all but Freedom and Virtue servers.
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Take this nerf as a message from the devs telling you that, if you are going to spend time in a PvP zone, perhaps you should strongly consider getting a team to do so.
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If they want the Pillboxes to be team-only content, then come out and say it.
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That's essentially what they have done. Notice has been served. Did you get the healing badges on your own? Did you get the mentoring badges on your own? Get used to the idea that some badges will require you to suck it up and get a team if you want the bling.
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That's essentially what they have done. Notice has been served. Did you get the healing badges on your own? Did you get the mentoring badges on your own? Get used to the idea that some badges will require you to suck it up and get a team if you want the bling.
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No, what they have done is nerfed something.
If they want to make it as a true intention, then come out and say it. The time for 'cryptic' hints and pointings at what they want a person to do is over. It's been three years now, the time for 'nudging' us into the playstyle they desire is past.
And actually, I CAN get the healing badges on my own. All it takes is going to Siren's and healing the Longbow/Arachnos Hotspot groups.
Mentoring badges I can do the same thing with. All I do is fire up my second account.
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Take this nerf as a message from the devs telling you that, if you are going to spend time in a PvP zone, perhaps you should strongly consider getting a team to do so.
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Except, this isn't about PvP, not at it's heart, IMO.
It's about the PvE in a PvP zone, again, IMO.
No one bothers fighting the heavies in PvP, they go right for the controllers of said heavies, because the controllers of said heavies are vastly easier to take down, especially the types that need the heavies to function viably.
As a test tonight, I took a FC Heavy in RV. Now, the Heavy only has a couple of attacks that it uses in short range fashion. The short-range uber attack that recharges in a molasses fashion and a couple grenade style attacks. I was able to get ONE uncontrolled PB turret with that heavy. ONE. TURRET. There is also something wrong with the AI that it will hardly ever, if at all, use the double hand blast thingie (not the shoulder cannon) when at short range. I can't even imagine what the Villain heavies go through.
As a second test, I got another Heavy and had it stay at range so only one turret could attack. I was able to take the other three turrets out that time, but the second turret of the next PB killed the heavy.
These things are supposed to be amongst the pinnacle of Freedom Corp technology and 5 turrets can take one out?
They might as well not even be there.
Oh, and as to your team comment? Ya, again, try finding a team when at prime time on a Friday night, there were a grand total of 5 (or thereabouts) people in RV on Protector. And at least three of them were Villains.
Edit - I have no problem with getting defeated by another player while in a PvP zone, it's the nature of the beast. But getting defeated by lvl54 bosses while trying to help my supposedly 'Elite' pet? That's a horse of a different color.
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No, what they have done is nerfed something.
If they want to make it as a true intention, then come out and say it. The time for 'cryptic' hints and pointings at what they want a person to do is over. It's been three years now, the time for 'nudging' us into the playstyle they desire is past.
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Short of exploits, the devs thankfully have never come out and told us how we should play the game, and they never will. They have however told us through these kinds of changes how they don't want us to play the game. Farming of any type has been frowned upon by the devs and many changes have come about as a way to discourage it. This change is as clear of a message as they are going to send that farmers of all types should seriously reconsider how they play in RV.
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Mentoring badges I can do the same thing with. All I do is fire up my second account.
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So, essentially a different type of farming. Don't get too comfortable with it.
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Except, this isn't about PvP, not at it's heart, IMO.
It's about the PvE in a PvP zone, again, IMO.
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Except that, at it's heart, it is about PvP. The whole point of the zone is PvP, and everything that occurs in the zone is designed to bring about interaction between players. That includes the PBs and Heavies.
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They might as well not even be there.
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Now there is something we can both agree on.
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Short of exploits, the devs thankfully have never come out and told us how we should play the game, and they never will. They have however told us through these kinds of changes how they don't want us to play the game. Farming of any type has been frowned upon by the devs and many changes have come about as a way to discourage it. This change is as clear of a message as they are going to send that farmers of all types should seriously reconsider how they play in RV.
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You're jumping back and forth here, which is it? A change to discourage farming, nevermind that the majority of the people used the heavies for their intended purpose i.e. taking down Pillboxes and the Sig AVs/Heroes when possible, or a change to encourage teaming to take down the Pillboxes?
You missed the entire point of the post.
Majority of people don't 'farm' in the sense you are talking about. An extemely small minority of people leave the heavies on and AFK compared to the ones who are fighting at the keyboard with the heavy.
Now, who gets punished the most in this situation? The foreign influence/infamy farmers or the legitimate players working towards a goal? The farmers will move onto something else. The legitimate players get screwed. Net profit = farmers aren't hurt but the legit players are.
You really need to distinguish between the RMT farmers and the legitimate players that get lumped in with them.
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So, essentially a different type of farming. Don't get too comfortable with it.
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You mean actually playing the game with my alt following me? How in the heck is that 'farming'?
By that logic, anything in this game can be considered 'farming'.
Me: "Hey, I'm fighting Rikti in RWZ."
You: "FARMER!"
Me: "Hey, I'm trying to get the Monkies for Zookeeper."
You: "FARMER!"
Me: "Hey, I'm dancing in AP."
You: "FARMER!"
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Except that, at it's heart, it is about PvP. The whole point of the zone is PvP, and everything that occurs in the zone is designed to bring about interaction between players. That includes the PBs and Heavies.
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No, it's not, the change to Heavies that is.
Again, anyone who does PvP in RV ignores the Heavies. Between the lumbering speed, slow recharge of their attacks, and large amount of hitpoints, they are ignored and just about useless for the user of the Heavy. The people that could use them no longer really can because of the zero buffability status.
But guess what? There's that nice squishy Empath Defender over there. You take him out and you don't have to worry about the Heavy.
Let me break this down for you:
Fighting another Player = PvP
Fighting a Pillbox = PvE, even if in a PvP zone
Which one of those fights is Regen and Healability status going to matter? Really think about this one.
PvP is entirely too fast paced for the Regen value and being able to heal the Heavy to make that big a difference.
But being able to heal a Heavy when taking on Lord Recluse or Captain Mako? That could mean the difference between success and failure.
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Now there is something we can both agree on.
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Get rid of them, BUT at the same time lower the level of the Pillbox Turrets to 50 or reduce their rank to Minion. And reduce the badge requirements as well. There is absolutely no reason for those things to be the same level and rank as the Rikti on the Warship.
Let's punish people actively playing the zone game or PVPing by making the heavy unheable. And lets have no effect whatsoever on afk farmers! This is such a great idea.
Oh, wait, it's a terrible idea.
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<ul type="square">[*] Longbow and Arachnos Heavies used in Recluse's Victory can no longer be healed. [/list]
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This is ridiculous. A pet under your control that you cannot heal or support. Fantastic.
Just remove them completely from the zone.
Or lower the requirements of the Pillbox Badges to match the Heavy Badges.
"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."