Poll: Issue 9 Breakthrough!
By
4_Thirty_5,
Posted on: 2007-05-30 18:24 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I enjoy I9 quite a bit, I love the many options it brings my characters. the IO sets allow us to take more ownership over our creations and tweak them in any way we choose.
However my problems with I9 are the following:
We need a way to store recipes just like salvage.
I'd like a way to transfer salvage/enhancements/recipes/infamy from any of my characters to another of my characters.
The IO Sets seem a bit underpowered, why are they so much lower than a lvl 53 SO, yet a lvl 50 IO is higher than both?
The price to create recipes seems too high. We pay twice for it, once to purchase the recipe and once to create it, that seems unfair. I think a reduced price for SG tables would be a nice perk.
I9 has all but killed Supergroups. There is no benefit for mid-high level toons to run in SG mode now, unless the leader of said SG provides incentives.
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Allow a percentage slider for missions from 100% infamy/influence to 100% prestige.
This way you can get 50/50 if you would like to do both.
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That is, I think, one of the best idea I have heard this year.
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Agreed, Excellent idea. Put it in the SG window in the next patch.
Personally I would have liked this poll to have included a "least liked new feature" option. That way I could qualify my vote of the Consignment House being the best new feature (something I indulge hours messing with every day) with the actual Inventing System being the worst. The prohibitive costs for constructing a low-end IO and lack of any actual skill (in or out of game) involved combine to make crafting a pursuit for wealthy badgers, rather then something that could be an end in itself. A system were people could have made some real sacrifice (like taking an Inventing pool power) to gain some real benefits (lower costs, the ability to memorize set IOs, or maybe even the ability to Invent in the first place) might have made it interesting as a pursuit, but for now I mostly see it as something that tricks people into being profit sources for my consignment related pursuits.
Want better looking NPCs Contacts? Check out this NPC Contact/Trainer/Etc Revision Thread and Index
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Remember: Guns don't kill people; Meerkats kill people.
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The CH needs to be shot in the head, thrown into a shallow unmarked grave and replaced with a full disclosure system. Other than that, i9's a big win.
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Get out my head devil.
In other words.
QFT.
EDIT: I'm loving the responses. People pinning for more pre-nerfed powersets and zones they'll consume in 2 hours. Laughable. They got a great new zone in Issue 8 and complained there was nothing in I8 for them.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Personally I would have liked this poll to have included a "least liked new feature" option. That way I could qualify my vote of the Consignment House being the best new feature (something I indulge hours messing with every day) with the actual Inventing System being the worst. The prohibitive costs for constructing a low-end IO and lack of any actual skill (in or out of game) involved combine to make crafting a pursuit for wealthy badgers, rather then something that could be an end in itself. A system were people could have made some real sacrifice (like taking an Inventing pool power) to gain some real benefits (lower costs, the ability to memorize set IOs, or maybe even the ability to Invent in the first place) might have made it interesting as a pursuit, but for now I mostly see it as something that tricks people into being profit sources for my consignment related pursuits.
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I will say that the actual process of crafting is pretty bleak. They could have put a table into Wentworth's without much loss in immersion.
The universities should have been the starting point for a tinkerer/crafter.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Love the STF and the IOs are brilliant too. Costume drops are fine...its nice to get one once in a while but its also cool that everyone isn't running around with the costumes yet.
I like the invention system, I like IOs, I like the new costume pieces.
I hate the salvage storage limits, the way I have to search for someone everytime my defender gets a drop my blaster needs, I hate the fact that some rare drops are common and common drops are rare. I hate that there are FIFTY MILLION SNIPER RECIPES, and the stupid sniper and pet damage are in the rare recipe pool so that I can't get a good drop for doing a task force. I hate the drop rates in general and how damn laggy wentworths is.
I like that I no longer get kicked out of the base though.
I also despise that there is still no cathedral of pain trial, a touted FEATURE of City of Villains when I dropped 65$ on it, and there's not even ONE POST from a Redname telling me where it is or what's going on with it.
I like the market as it is, with the secret bid thingy. Makes things move along faster.
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These polls REALLY need a 'none of the above' option.
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QFT
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
In response to the "I will post" bit: My favorite things were the little quality of life stuff. The rail line added to Founder's Falls and the yellow and green lines being in both Skyway and Steel Canyon. The trainers (store) added to King's Row, and Castle's addition to Peregrine Island.
The rest I really couldn't care two beans about. It's like when I was still a smoker, and was in a car. I liked having the ashtray and the electric cigarette lighter and occasionally used it, but since I already had a lighter in my pocket, and an open window rarely saw reason to make use of either (except to snub out my butts in the ashtray; I hate littering).
I almost feel bad about relaying that, because I know you worked very, very hard on it, but I've never been that big on the economic stuff in games.
Luerim
My only complaint is I don't fully understand the entire Market system for selling and purchasing. I've never really liked the blind auction system, personally.
I'm also still a little hesistant with the IOs, but a little more forum searching could probably clear up the rest of my 'issues.'
Arc ID: 475246, "Bringing a Lord to Power"
"I'm only a simple man trying to cling to my tomorrow. Every day. By any means necessary."
-Caldwell B. Cladwell
There should be a tutorial for the CH as well as for inventions.
f.b.
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My only issue with Issue 9 remains this. The feature (which I love don't get me wrong) means SG members tend to grind much harder for infamy/influence now then prestige.
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Odd, I notice just the opposite. Salvage and high level recipe drops provide so much inf, there's no reason to get out of SG mode. Especially with non-set IO enhancers being so cheap on the black market.
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By far this is not the case on our server. Prestige earnings have slowed to a crawl.
I have spoken with the majority of the coalitions and they all state that it is a problem.
A slider would solve this dilemna. I am sure you would not be opposed to such a concept. There is no reason that I could think of why we should not have such an option.
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
Overall I liked I-9 but could not give it a higher mark due to the fact that the improvements are a good start but need to be expanded and improved.
SG storage for invention salvage / recipes asap. New temp powers.
Issue 9 seems about half finished to me. With the number of recipes, salvage (graded according to level), and enhancements, the complication factor looks like it went straight through the roof.
I get a fair number of salvage and recipe drops--though costume drops are unbelievably rare--scattered over my characters. If I want to assemble a set I have to consolidate all of the recipes and salvage on a single character. That means I have to find a friend who is willing to take the time to help me transfer all of that.
This could have been solved by building in a realistic vault system that would store more than a token amount of recipes and salvage, and be accessible by every character on the server. And while SG base enhancement bins will work just fine for 1 man SGs, having two or more people in a SG means you'll have to trust them not to raid your hard won stash.
I'm also wondering how mid to high level respecs will work out for those characters with more than ten level 35--or lower--IOs. With the amount of influence some of these set IOs cost I expect that some folks will be annoyed at being forced to take them as a dead loss.
I'm still waiting to be impressed by whole IO system.
Major Jolt
Major Jolt Lvl 50 elec/elec Blaster
GhostWind Lvl 50 AR/Dev Blaster
Iron Knight Mk2 Lvl 36 Inv/SS Tanker
Twisted Quark Lvl 31 WS
Thereon Lvl 30 Dark/Rad Defender
Mad Maggie Lvl 50 Kat/SR Scrapper
Crimson Steele Lvl 50 BS/Regen Scrapper
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If you people havent figured out that the costume drops and rare salvage, combined with a hundred new badges, are designed to get you on and keep you on, no matter how it inconvieniaces you, then you never will. \
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I don't mind having to earn a few different costume pieces..
I mean, look at WoW...once you max out your guy, what is there left to do?
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start a new one. Preferablyt a differnt class and race so you can see differnt stories
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obtain the hardest of the hard costume pieces and get a cool mount. that is what this game is coming to...and for good reason. It gets you hooked!
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IF i want that, i can play wow. I liked CoH when it wasnt that
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I love the Io sets, but hate the amount you have to pay for everything. I say that I'll get them when I get them. Just know that dispite all the complaining, that it is all like this way on purpose, and it is here to stay. complaining that stuff is hard to get is like angel's voices to people who want your monthly payment people!
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One of the problems with compareing this game to a game like wow, is the sheer amount of alts the players here tend to have. So it being difficult to max out one or two characters is reasonable, but 12? Per server? Not to mention that at least in wow you can send stuff to your alts on the same server/faction. SO if you want to grind your tradeskills, you can use your highby to provide the materials or money. Here that is curtailed. Also here players here tend not to play their 50's.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
I like the idea of the IO sets as they allow for a new level of customization for characters. I'm a nut for choices, replayability and so forth so I like that.
I also love the fact that most of my alts that are not worried about IO sets right now will never be hungry again lol! I have a lvl 8 Blaster with over a million Inf from the sale of one item! Most of my alts below the teens have over 100k Inf and can afford regular DOs and SOs for a long time.
However, there are still no new Powers, no new ATs, gear for Bases still costs too much and there is long and growing list of QoL changes that have not been addressed like server transfers, easier communications with Contacts and Brokers and so forth.
As much as the mad scientist in me likes crafting stuff I'd trade it all if we could make up a list of 25 nit-picky QoL issues and get them done/fixed.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
I've played the game almost every single day since Issue 9 went live.
I've done a dozen Task Forces hero side. Seven or Eight of those times I received a Pacing of the Turtle recipe.
I've done six Task Forces/Strike Forces whatever Villain side. Five out of those six times I receive a Pacing of the Turtle recipe.
Not one costume drop. Only one temp power drop.
I guess I can't complain too much since I've made millions selling magic common salvage I get for street sweeping Circle of Thorns.
Between the Ultra-Rare drop rates and the complex math needed to figure out just what the IO sets will do for you I have to say the claim that this system is "Casual Player Friendly" is just laughable.
Maybe if I ran 12 Task Forces a day on multiple characters for 30+ days in a row then maybe I'd have gotten a costume drop by now.
Maybe if the prices of the common IO recipes which are available for sale at the University for retardedly high prices weren't so expensive then maybe I'd fill up with common IOs. I won't blame the Devs for the prices of salvage to make those IOs cause those prices are set by the players, and will eventually come down. The recipe prices available in the University are WAY TOO HIGH. Something that we told them during the closed testing, but as usual the reports of the testers was ignored.
The only thing I wanted were more costume pieces. I can only hope that the future space mission content has space suit type stuff--chest details that look like life support units, fishbowl space helmets, bulky spacesuit gloves and boots and other joys of retrofuturism.
My main villain is Telstar Man, and I cannot wait until he can finally get into orbit.
Favorite feature post cause I said I would when I voted that way! 
My favorite feature of I9 is that its progress towards the next issues. I like the Invention system alright, and I use it and enjoy the things it adds, but I liked the game before we had it. Yet I still like it afterwards. Nothing much else changed. I still enjoy the game a lot, and I9 didn't make me like the game any less. My enthusiasm for City of Heroes/Villains is unchanged.
I am am very much looking forward more to I10 and the story updates it will bring. My favorite feature of I9 then is that it moved the number from Issue 8 to 9 and that's one closer to 10. 
global: @SuperSean
Undersecretary of Awesome
because of the way certain items seem to be 'staple ingredients' (like flour and eggs in nearly every baking recipe), even though they're listed as commons, they're in high demand, so if you need one, you either have to wade through lots of junk to find a drop, or pay thru the nose.
haven't played long enough to say if the IO's will really help the finances in the endgame. as for the sets... I've three chars with sets in place, and I can't honestly say i NOTICe the effects. At all. not even the chance to proc stuff. Arrrnh? So yeah, I see no real need to hunt down full sets.
costume pieces - I've received exactly ONE costume piece recipe in all the chars I've been playing since I9 went live. One. And it was for something totally inappropriate for the character (fairy wings on a succubus who already has demon wings... riiight.) So, I ended up selling it. I set the price based on the sale history, and the listing fee broke the bank!! plus it didn't sell for several days. Maybe Heroside fairy wings were in demand. Villainside... not so much. So, costume recipes are falling flat IMO... they're like a lottery prize that may or may not be using the right monetary system.
New tilesets - Good.
New NPC chat - Good
Still have bugs everywhere from as far back as issue 4 (when I started).
Would have to say, while overall the issue is decent, the new shiny is NOWHERE cool enough to offset the added hassles of the invention/consignment systems, or the lack of bugfixes.
So.. looking forward to LOTS of incremental patches between now and I10.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
I loved i9 the only thing I can really say is id had loved a new zone event. As we seem to be still waitting on.
Atlas - Galaxy
Founder Falls - Brickstown
and PI
and flypose4 is my Fav
Frostyfrozen lvl 50 Pure Ice Blaster @Les Femmes Mystique
Meltalika lvl 50 - Snowdriftta lvl 50 - Icesong lvl 50 -Frostyblue lvl 50
Have Fun & Stay Safe
The invention system was probably needed, that said it's really more complicated than it needs to be, and yet not as flexible as I would have hoped. And of course, the rewards for actually using it are minimal. At first I thought maybe it would allow me to prune a few enhancers from some of my powers, but not really. 2 level 50 IOs only put you at 80%, so you still need 3 to get the ED cap. It may sound "uber", but I really expected them to cap out at 50%. (to optimistic perhaps) The set bonuses are often tiny, and disproportionate. 3% damage? Woopty? Even 5 stacked that's meaningless, but 5 x 9% accuracy - nice. or 5x6.5% recharge? That adds up, .58 cold resist? Not so much. (it doesn't help that cold resist/defense is essentially pointless)
As has been noted - there are a lot of entire sets that are just worthless. You literaly can't give them away. (really, put them up for 1 inf, so that you actually lose money if someone buys it - and no one will.)
A lot of sets just have bizarre bonuses, debt protection in a 35-50 set? Why? I don't like debt protection as a set bonus period, but putting in an endgame set is just a bit silly.
Also, we don't actually invent anything. We just create things that other characters in the game world have apparently already invented. As always our C-class hero status is reaffirmed. I'll make another post about STF that relates to this issue also. (not in an entirely negative way)
Complexity wise: trying to balance enhancement bonuses, set bonus, and the effects that exemping has on both of those... driving me nuts. Throw in hundreds of different salvage items that I never know the full use of and the requisite inventory management... ug.
I would really like more inventory space in our storage - it would feel less pointless if we could shove more in the vault than we can carry around in our back pocket. The invention system ends up interfereing with normal gameplay, which I know was not the goal. You do some missions and eventually you find yourself absolutely full of salvage and recipes, and you end up being forced to run to WW and do something about it. Of course, since all your slots are full already this process ends up being incredibly involved and time consuming. It doesn't help that you have to run back and forth between WW, the invention table, and the auction house 20 times during this process.*
I jump in the game to do a few missions - I end up spending 3 hours at WW trying to liquidate salvage and recipes. (and trying to avoid inadvertantly selling something I need)
*Let me give a few scenarios of having to run between table, AH, and storage.
First, establish that you're almost completely full - personal storage and vault included. The salvage info only lists the recipes its used in that you have on you. Even if you do, the salvage doesn't give the level range for the IO it's used in, just the name. You end up having to run back and forth to the vault and the AH/university to check what salvage you need and swap them out.
Then you have things like recipe prices. People sell recipes on the AH for highly unpredictable prices. 60 selling, 0 buying, and yet the "going" price is twice what the university sells the recipe for. People also buy recipes in the same unpredictable manner. Sometimes you get more than the university buying price, sometimes despite great demand no one is willing to pay the vendor sell value. We need an indicator of what those prices are. Give us the purchase price and sale value wherever applicable, that way we don't have to run back and forth between the university and AH (when buying) or the store and the AH (when selling)
And finally, we need "show item" links on the AH. Click on a recipe in your list, or on the AH list and have an option to display the recipe along with all the salvage it requires. As well as the simple ability to quick search for items you're looking to sell. (right click on an item in your inventory, and click "show in AH")
In other words, make information available at every stop in invention process.
Suggestions:
Give us a way to mark recipes we want to make eventually - so that we can always reference what they require.
When we look at a recipe, put in an indicator when we have a required salvage item in our vault. (another column of digits for the salvage list on the recipe)
Indicate the break even price for salvage and recipes. That is, what would get you the same inf as selling it to a store - for common salvage this would say something like "278 inf (250+28)" indicating the sale price to the vendor and well as the market fee. You could also actually put a "sell to store" button on market menu. (or maybe the *option* for a sale to time out eventually - if it doesn't sell than it just gets dumped for base inf value.)
AH terminal for bases, while your at it how about stores for bases as well. A reclamator that will buy salvage, recipes, and enhancers. Possibly BM and WW outlets in pocket D. (would make the 2 apparently redundant vaults a bit more sensical) The only issue is that I'm not sure DJ Zero would actually want illegal black market purchases going on in his club. It could be done a bit more subtly though perhaps - shady individuals sitting at the tables in the villain side of the club. No crates or anything sitting out, just people that are willing to talk business.
On the topic of bases - tab sorting for enhancement storage. 
(in theory we could use enhancer storage to distribute IOs to our guildies)
Lower the salvage requirements for low level enhancers. Generic IOs of very low level should only require 1 piece of common salvage. The lowest level (level 10) should require "either/or". So it starts out "boresight or luck charm", than maybe boresights for 15, luck charms for 20, and bore and luck charm for 25.
I think the procs would benefit from a system similiar to what we have with Accuracy, that forces a hit after a certain amount of misses.
I did a test, and though the sample size is tiny in the long run, I went 66 attacks before triggering a 20% proc. The bonuses from the procs are generally tiny anyways - such that I would probably never bother to slot them - but the unpredictable randomization is just the cyanide laced icing on the cake. (overall, in 150 attacks, I got 6 or so of the 20% proc - 3 of them in the last 10 attacks. Expected number would be around 30)
STF.
The good: The Aeon fight, and final Recluse fight are how AV fights should be. Fighting an enemy with 50 gajillion hps that kills anyone that isn't a tanker in one hit is not fun. It's boring. Really boring. Fighting enemies that are always inexplicably infinitely more powerful than us is just annoying. Indigo can trade blows with 8 level 50 villains? Why did she even bother farming out missions to our heroes in CoH? Does every character with a name have to be able to crush us like insects - with no explanation as to why they are more powerful than we could ever become?
Aeon, Lord Recluse - these feel like real superhero fights.
The final battle of LRSF is pretty cool also, it's an unfortunate that it's pretty much requires vengance cheese and nukes - but we actually get to beat down the FP in an straight 8 vs 8 fight.
By comparison - in the STF the signatures show up as insanely powerful level 54s. To kill them we have to resort to pulling. Somehow the other AVs are happy to sit there while their companions chase off after us one by one. If we don't do that, we get annihilated. Often we still do. Lord Recluse has a reason for being super tough in this TF, as does Dr. Aeon - why is GW single handedly annihilating us? (and is it just me, or when the signature villains are presented out of the context of the CoV game do they have all personality drained out of them? I remember in the comic books when Scirrico was presented bearing a Snidely Whiplash grin on his face. What up with that?)
Oh, the little bonus "miniboss" fight in the thorn mission is very cool. I wish we fought more enemies like that in this game.
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1) it felt like a slap in the face to have our final showdown with Recluse begin with him yakking about the mighty Statesman, who is idly standing on some boat back in Independence Port, while we are standing right there, ready to give him a run for his money. Please remember that we might like to be considered real heroes, and not bit players. He should be worried about stopping us.
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They did explain this part.
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The explanation is meaningless. The point is that we get past all of Recluse's minions and traps, defeat his incredibly powerful buddies, and we're still not the real heroes of the story, we're second (more likely third, given the power of the Vindicators) string.
This complaint is entirely about Recluse's last line about "the mighty Statesman himself". Had that line not been there, I'd have felt like the hero.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)