Statesman speaks at serious games summit
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2006-10-31 18:17 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Costume changes come with a minimal cost that no one really complains about, but we complain about the costs of bases.
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Because veteran players who are still focused on the Hero side of things (who already have a slew of level 50's) aren't overly excited about PvE'g for the sake of gaining prestige to buy base stuff.
Don't get me wrong. I'll redo the same story arcs to level a hero I'm truly interested in leveling; but there's just something 'work-like' about HAVING to PvE even more than we already have to earn base stuff. It's just a beatin'.
I'd have more interest in bases if I could make some decent personal bases. I start with one room with maybe a little decoration and no functionality. Anything more costs a lot of prestige that could otherwise be going into influence/infamy. Then there's the monthly rent. I have a lot of characters, and keeping track of rent for all of them would be a pain.
I have a personal base for my two highest level characters. I hope someday that I might be able to add something useful to those bases. As it stands, I don't even have basic power and control yet. Once I get that, I have a choice between expensive additions that provide marginal benefit.
I'm looking forward to the base teleporter in the Veterans Awards, though. That could prompt me to make more bases.
Jack, you're missing the point. People love the character creator because they ARE that character as they play through the game. In many cases the character embodies something that the person find cool plus their appearence is something which is shared with everyone in the game and is part of everyday life for every player.
However. Bases are none of the above. People don't dream of being A BUILDING but they no doubt have dreams of owning a certain base, saddly the tilesets for bases are so limited that people haven't got the freedom to do what they want as much. They end up being very very similar. Additionally bases are not part of a typical play session or shared with the player population as a whole. They are created by one person or a small group of people and they are only ever seen by the smallest minority of the player population.
You really can't draw any lines between the success of the costume creator and the lack of success with bases as they are unrelated in so many ways. As stated, what makes bases less interesting is that they're too isolated and not involving enough in the typical play session. No doubt that will change with the invention system when the SG workbenches become preferable to the University workbenches.
To be frank here. When you look at player housing in other games they are very very popular because each induvidual player can afford a personal home or building. That is their pad, their little corner to do their own thing. Much in the way the costumes are made for and by a single player.
If bases are to become popular then it needs to be possible for one person to have a building/base all to themself. What you have is SGs where maybe 1 person gets to make their corner and the whole SG ends up paying to maintain that persons idea. In essense, the base becomes exactly what a single person wanted and others simply get to borrow it. Thats why they're less popular.
One solution is that SGs should have a BASE and then doors/portal which lead to a single players room. Something which is a plot for that one person and they have complete freedom to do with that personal plot as they see fit. Bases become a hub for access to personal housing rather than being the end of it. You see this in many comics, each member of the Fantastic Four having their own room, Reed has his lab for example. Or the Xavier institute being a campus where members of the team have their own little corner to themselves.
What would be nice is that the SG as a whole can contribute to the base itself and the base can be expanded as a seperate entity to each members induvidual 'room'. If players are then given their own plots which they can expand and develop seperate from the SG base but linked through it so any member of the SG can wander in and have a look then it creates a fictionally consistant equivilent of personal housing which you see in many MMOs.
My .02:
CoH has fallen into the trap of trying to be all things to all people. If they had put the massive amount of time and effort that they have put into things like arena, bases, PvP, and the crafting system into PvE and content creation; I think we would all be a lot better off. The devs did not look for the deal-breaking assumptions that were just below the surface of these requests (e.g. PvP will give xp), and pushed ahead with them at the expense of developing more and better content to satisfy their player base. Each new system has ended up disappointing and being under-utilized relative to the PvE content that the overwhelming majority of players are looking for.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't try and expand a game into new directions. But those new directions have to be consistent with the core thing that you do well and you have to realize that they have a price! Just think how many new power sets could have been designed for CoV if it had been a stand-alone game (or expansion) without PvP. How many graphic bugs could have been fixed with the staff-time money that went into bases?
People started playing CoH for PvE and they are still playing the game for PvE. The only way to keep that going is to focus on adding PvE content. Not more PvP, not crafting, not more bases, but things that add to the PvE experience. Costumes, teaming stuff, new power sets, villains, zones, missions, etc.
/Brimstone Armor
Scorus
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But what's clear from this thread - and from many, many posts - is that bases are "too expensive". To me, that's interesting (as it is to the Serious Games crowd). Costume changes come with a minimal cost that no one really complains about, but we complain about the costs of bases. Evidently, the costs exceed the perceived value of creating one's own HQ (btw, I confess that many other games have the notion of personal property, but aside from Second Life, I don't think they offer as much customizability as our bases).
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Have you had a look around Ultima Online since they added customisable housing?
And even before then, the amount of personalization you could achieve with the pre-built house designs was near limitless due to the number of ingame items and the way they could be arranged.
(For those who've never seen UO, it uses an isometric viewpoint with 2d graphics. The classic UO house decoration is the fish tank made of dyed cloth, shells and fish. It sounds naff, but it actually looks very good.)
The reason that housing works in UO is that most players manage to get their own house which they can play with as they like. If a guild leader wants to set up their house as a guild house that doesn't impact on anyone else in the guild.
You can also hang out at your house and still be part of the game world.
In my guild in UO we used to have meetings at our guildhouse. At the end of a hunt we'd go there and split the loot. We'd have training events with other guilds there. We could easily take people who weren't part of the guild to the house.
In CoH, one of the RP groups I'm in, despite havign a nice enough base, continues to meet at Steel Canyon university. The base is sometimes used for private conversations between characters, but is usually just a transit point between zones.
#2409 - The Mystery of the MAGI vaults. Azuria has contacted you to help her stop the thefts from the MAGI vaults.
#68054 - Out of the gutters. Left for dead, you swore that you were through with being a victim (alt villain beginning story)
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Costume changes come with a minimal cost that no one really complains about, but we complain about the costs of bases.
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Obviously because the cost of bases is not 'minimal'
At any level in the game I can spend a few hours doing what comes naturally (playing the game) and have more than enough funds to change a costume. The same cannot be said for building a functional AND asthetically pleasing base. Even with an SG of thirty people in SG mode at all times it takes months to get a base that you feel is 'adequate'. Getting a downright spectacular base seems nearly unattainable.
Now, to get similar awe from the base building side, add a second floor to the base that does not allow functionality that uses the biggest plot size and decorative items only, and let us spend influence on them at a 1 to 1 ratio for prestige. Or something similar for player apartments, or whatever. You are right, the verstatility of the base editor is amazing and fun. I've played with these excellent legos many times when test was giving out 36 million prestige, and not once was I there for the functionality.
Also, you have to fix the bugs that kick coalition memebers and team mates from the bases. One of the reasons that costumes are so fun is that they are so easy to share. Sharing your base with others is... darn near impossible. Once this is fixed maybe you will start to see base building contests as well 
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Bingo.. nail meet head
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I think there's some misinterpretation here - or my speech wasn't clear.
Let's take a look at costume creation. It's been embraced beyond belief by players...we have in game costume contests and events organized by you the players...Some say it's the best part of the game. The single most requested item in CoH is to make the costume creator standalone...
Intestingly, costumes have no gameplay value. They don't boost damage. They don't boost resistance. They don't boost defense. They're only for show.
Now, let's take a look at bases. Take away the teleporters, take away anything game related.
As just a resource for expressing something unique, base creation is on par tech wise with costume creation. Admittedly, there's not quite the same amount of textures, colors, etc., but there's still a lot of versatility. And the layout possibilities are endless.
But what's clear from this thread - and from many, many posts - is that bases are "too expensive". To me, that's interesting (as it is to the Serious Games crowd). Costume changes come with a minimal cost that no one really complains about, but we complain about the costs of bases. Evidently, the costs exceed the perceived value of creating one's own HQ (btw, I confess that many other games have the notion of personal property, but aside from Second Life, I don't think they offer as much customizability as our bases).
Let's turn to the idea of an architect. We foresaw that some people would feel alienated if they weren't the architect. That's why some things (Personal Items) can be "crafted" by individuals and placed in the base. But even if there's an architect: many super groups have a member who designed a single costume which all then use. In other words, they're more than willing to accept someone else's opinion in the group identity for their avatar appearance. Again, the primary difference is cost (I think).
That's what the point of the talk was. I completely agree with many of the suggestions raised in the Base Construction forum, as well as one's mentioned here, would improve Bases to some degree or another. Posi and I go through them at length; really, it's just a question of time & resources. Some things would take astronomically long to do - or perhaps there's something else even more requested or popular.
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1 - Costumes are a big form of personal expression for our characters. It's important for us to play a character that looks a way we like, but also represents an idea about our character to others. Why do so many people hang out under Atlas? To be seen. As others have stated, very few people get to see the inside of other people's bases.
2 - To fix this I think there should be a simple "Invite into Base" list that works just like the friends lists. If someone accepts the invite then they can get in, but not do anything. Ofcourse there should also be a "Not-accepting Base invite" option as well to prevent base invite spamming.
3 - We don't complain about the cost of costumes because influence is fairly easy to come by after a while. Prestige is not. Don't get me wrong, I believe that a high level character paying >1mil influ to change their costume is completely absurd, but it's a more tolerable absurdity than hyper-inflated base costs.
4 - For me a HUGE thing about bases that bugs me is the rediculous base portals. Talk about something that breaks immersion! What, we can't have a real door??? Get rid of them. Take 20 doors per zone that never work except for special events (preferably doors to large buildings to foster the notion that multiple bases could actually occupy space in it) and make them Base entrences. The door will be randomly selected by the SG leader that buys the base, when the base is bought, in the zone specified.
There. Problems solved
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Intestingly, costumes have no gameplay value. They don't boost damage. They don't boost resistance. They don't boost defense. They're only for show.
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Costumes looks cool cost nothing (at first) to create and add numerous different pieces to the overall appearance over time. Costumes are as character defining as powers. To say they have no gameplay value or are "only for show" is kinda insulting to people that take pride in their costumes and the inter-relation between their costumes and their characters story/powers.
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I didn't take it as insulting, but did take it as dismissive as far as the value of the costume creator, and it's probably good to bring up. (I couldn't really shoe-horn it into the structure of my other reply.) It's a mistake on anyone's part to discount the power of the costume creator to facilitate 'immersion', which facilitates (but does not create) 'fun'. The flexibility and current costs of the costume system makes up for or papers over the creakier parts of the CoX 'gameplay' experience for a lot of people.
"Costumes have no gameplay value"? When did gameplay only consist of number-crunching? It's nigh to saying that the user interface doesn't matter that much, or level design is a minor concern. It's such a narrow, incomplete view of gameplay. I'll rack this up to awkward articulation because if Statesman doesn't "get" how much the costume creator has been a factor for drawing in and maintaining subscriptions, then it really was best for him to move up the corporate ladder and staff someone else as Lead Designer who 'gets it' when it comes to mass media entertainment.
WARNING: LONG POST
Ladies, Gentlemen, and Statesman (If you're still reaing this),
As you can see by my post count, I am not a regular poster to the forums though I have been a member since pre-release and have played CoH/V since both release dates. I hope that does not invalidate my opinion because when I do post, it is because of something that truly concerns me. Moderators, though your first inclination may be to delete this post when you read a certain word, please take into account that it is used within the context of a political ideology. Now that I have bored you with the groundwork, here is my opinion on this matter.
Bases in CoH/V are not as popular as one might have expected because the system inherently produces a social structure that is decidedly un-American. America is a democracy. It is our most valued heritage. Lets look at some definitions:
Democracy - the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges.
Not the definition you expected? Yeah, I know you thought about representative government, but isnt the above definition really what makes America so special?
Heres another definition:
Capitalism - an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision , and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
Again, the highlighted section may not be your first thought when you hear the word, but it is crucial to our American way of life. Some high-minded idealists my even prefer the following word and its definition:
Communism - a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods and responsibilities are distributed equitably.
Unfortunately, membership in a base-centric SG in CoH/V (i.e. a large SG) does not follow any of these socio-economic analogs. So what are the socio-economic factors involved? Lets look at the average player.
The primary draw of the base features is, as has been pointed out by Statesman himself, its customizability. Since the base functionality requires membership in an SG, it is safe to say that to enjoy this functionality, SG membership is a requirement. Starting a new SG is always an option but finding additional members is difficult at best. Therefore, any new SG would inherently be, a small SG. The cost of base building is currently prohibitive with regard to the small SG. Though recent changes have added minimal functionality made affordable in such small SG bases, a great deal of the aforementioned customizability is forfeited along with many of the more inventive base features.
Where is all this getting to? Be patient, please. Im a teacher in real life.
In essence, in order to enjoy the full splendor of base functionality and appearance (something, incidentally, every single player with COH and COV laid out $49.99 for the game it came with), a large SG is still the requirement. So what happens when the average player joins a large, base-centric SG? First, he or she is required to play in SG mode nearly all of the time in order to earn prestige which is automatically appropriated into the SG coffers. For his efforts, he earns the use of the base teleporters, res rings, empowerment stations, and gets to go oooh and ahhh at all the wonderful decorations. The problem is, a large SG is almost always controlled by one, or a few, select individuals. These individuals have the right and the ability, under game functionality, to withhold for themselves the design, implementation, decoration, and storage functionality of the base via permissions. The average player gets to keep none of the prestige he earns and has no control over the appearance, functionality, or layout of the base. In effect, he gets none of fun associated with customizability.
In the end, the following conclusion can be made:
1) The primary draw (i.e. fun) of base functionality is its customizability
2) The average player cannot afford the majority of these features in a small SG
3) A large SG withholds these features to 1 or 2 out some 75 member players
4) Ergo, 73 odd players are working to provide fun for 1 or 2 players
Lets look at one last definition:
Fascism - a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts the nation (or the SG) above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation.
Get the point?
Cryosteel
Cryosteel 46 ice/ice Blaster
Bonfire Blaze 25 Fire/Fire Blaster
Dream of Shadows 25 Staff/Willpower Scrapper
+ 17 alts
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Other really excellent ideas have been offered that would have been easy to create, but have also been ignored.
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I would not presume that any of our ideas are "easy". One thing I've learned from being a coder, most of the time you can't really tell how difficult something is until you know the legacy code.
I would not assume the devs are ignoring us. This is all a complex cost/benefit analysis. Remember, most of the game is not bases, so significant effort put into bases is benefiting a minority of the game. For example, if the choice comes down to adding some features to bases or making missions more dynamic, I'd choose the mission upgrades without question.
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Bolded by me. Most of the game may not be bases but Mr. Emmert did say that they spent more time on developing bases than on any other feature of the game.
Where does cost/benefit fit into that equation?
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I don't fault them for this. Sometimes as a software developer you have to be willing to step out and take a risk to do something that'll really set you apart. It seems they hoped that bases would become something very noteworthy and unusual in CoX. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The big question now is should they a) chalk it up as a failure and devote resources in safer ways to make the game better, or b) risk throwing good money after bad and spend more time enhancing bases further. Very difficult decision.
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As for bases (this is for anyone reading this post) in the main SG I belong to there is one "base monkey" to build and decorate and he's done a damned good job of it. However, I have no input.
We're told not to create certain things at the worktables because they don't need it or whatever. Or told to create certain things that they do need. I still have no clue how worktables work since I don't have the freedom to just play around with them.
We're discouraged from adding personal items. I think because only the owner can delete them. I may be wrong there, but that's the impression I got. The leaders don't want a bunch of crap all over, and I can't blame them, because they can't get rid of it. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to place something only to have a leader delete it.
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A point well made. Jack's comparison of bases to costumes is wildly off because I control my costume. I help pay for my base, yet none of it is my creation.
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Bases mean nothing to me. Going there instead of the ER means I have to rest or wait for my HP and End. to fill up. If I want to buy inspirations all they sell is the lowest tier heal and end. isnpirations. I can get those from contacts and have more selection.
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Yup. A complete and utter "swing and a miss" in the value-add department. I actually get penalized for using my base as a place to rez or buy insps.
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I can never keep track of which teleporters go where and always have to click on them to see which is which, so it's just easier to go where I'm going the way I always have before bases came in.
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Good lord this drives me INSANE. PLEASE, how hard would it be to label the teleporters?! This is another negative. If I take the the CoV ferry, I get a clear list of all destinations. Using the base TP function, I blunder from pad to pad looking for the right one. Poor implementation that could be fixed fairly easily, IMO.
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CoP isn't working, so no IoPs or raiding.
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And that's a big deal. IoPs would at least give me some direct benefit as an individual.
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Other than meeting there before teaming up, what purpose do bases serve me? None, really. I lived without them before they came in, I can live without them if they took them out.
Personally, I'd have had more enjoyment from an apartment. Maybe no one could enter it and see it, but at least *I* built and decorated it. That's more than I'm getting from bases at the moment, and it's sad, considering how much work, and time, the devs put into them. 
Edited to add, and if there were no bases, I'd have a hell of a lot more infamy on my villain than I do atm. That's another thing I dislike about bases, the exchange rate of inf/prestige, and getting no inf. at all after a certain level. That's not any way to get me to like bases.
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That's one of my biggest gripes. In terms of game mechanics, a fundamental principal of CoX is that you start off with very few resources,and as you level up you are able to purchase more; more powers, more slots, better enhancements, costumes, capes, auras. You're rewarded for progressing through the game. Infamy generation in SG mode is the only example I can think of in the game that works completely counter to everything else. As I level up I get less and less infamy, which now pits my personal needs against the needs of my SG. This sucks. For me right now it's a no-brainer because the base provides me with exactly zero benefits. The devs should eliminate the entire mechanism of declining inf generation.
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Interesting post, States. It's good to hear you're looking at the success of costumes compared to the problems with bases. The costume system really IS one of the greatest parts of the City of universe.
I think what really allows the costume system to succeed, is the simple fact that the form of your character in no way reflects its function. In nearly every other MMO, players must sacrifice their beloved appearance for an outfit that provides better bonuses. The end result is that people sacrifice their individuality in the world and simply become part of the mass. City of is the only game I've played in which each player is completely unique and memorable from the moment they join a team.
The real problems with bases is that they force players to choose between functionality and authstetics. I'm not talking about the 100 prestige lighting that could have gone towards a generator when I say this, as what I'm talking about has nothing to do with Prestige. The problem is actually in the plotting system and the limitations it presents.
Plots are THE most restrictive element of the base system, and the one that truly forces players to choose between a functional base and a fun one. The base plot is simply too restrictive. The starter is 8x8 or 64 total spaces. The problem is, the buffer required between rooms is what really creates problems. A 2x2 room actually takes up anywhere between 3x3 to 4x4 spaces (9-16 of your 64). With power, control, workshop, teleporters, hospital, and entrance, that's a minimum of 6 2x2 rooms which will take up at least 48 of your spaces.
If you want a large decorative room, there's really no way to place it in the tiny grid provided. A 3x3 room fits so poorly into the grid restrictions being 4x4-5x5, it essentially takes up the space of at least 4 2x2 rooms for slightly over 2x the space. That means your base goes from having 4x2x2=16 usuable spaces to 3x3=9. In addition, this decorative room will eat at space that could be used for actual functionality.
I really think if you got rid of the whole plot concept, the base system would really work. It's the horribly restrictive floorplans that stop people from flexing their creativity with bases. There's no reason I should be forced to put 9 rooms in a perfect Tic-Tac-Toe pattern. Let me make a giant hallway, or 3 rows of 1-4-4 or whatever combination I want. That's what will give people the freedom they crave.
The United States of America is a democratic republic. 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Get the point?
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Boo, I thought you were heading towards Feudalism.
True, but I teach English not Social Studies 
and most large SGs are still Fascist States, or Feudal kingdoms (though creativity was still supported under Feudalism)
Cryosteel
Cryosteel 46 ice/ice Blaster
Bonfire Blaze 25 Fire/Fire Blaster
Dream of Shadows 25 Staff/Willpower Scrapper
+ 17 alts
given the page sprawl already this probably won't be read.. but..
<.< the easiest way to make ppl happy with bases, and to give ppl things to ACTUALLY DO IN THEM, would be to add an elevator to the entrence room.
o.o on the second floor, have a long corrodor with doors, each one links to a member of the sg. let them then build, fill out, or just randomly set lighting to that room(s) where the money comes from inf, ie, their own pocket.
This lets ppl design if they want, alter whenever, and generally have the fun with bases that they have with costumes. While the current crafting and placing of objects is a good idea in theory, ALL THE OBJECTS YOU CAN MAKE COST ALOT!!!!! you basically pay twice for them, once in salvage, and again in prestige. And most of the items you craft aren't worth putting down for their prices...
o.o another thing, having a second floor gets you bonus points with the player base over a thing that they've been asking for since day 1, it gets them PERSONAL housing.
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I'd like to see the devs make some minor improvements to bases and, of course, fix existing bugs but otherwise just let them be and focus their manpower on other things that would benefit the game and the playerbase more.
I'm not saying they're "good enough", just that I don't think continued extensive investment in them is the best use of resources at this point.
^^ oh, and before I forget, reading that line about how SGs are just a chat channel of friends.. thats kinda like why British icecream taste so bad (cause they think its just for kids, thus, why bother making it well?).
O.O an SG is more than a collection of individuals who just want to talk to each other!! its a group! a symbol! thats like saying ppl who live in a country are just there to talk to each other, they're there to LIVE in it! to interact! to pool resources and get things done!! SGs have been the most ignored thing in this game. We still have SG bugs from over a year ago that matter so little to you that you don't even have them listed as bugs!!
o_o I keep hoping that things will change, that you'll clue in that making it a fun group experience for SG will help you keep customers... so far I've heard some things (the SG TFs in issue 9 (and I hope that S there is right), the sgs by global so we can actually have 75 individuals...) that I'm really hoping are true.. but they keep getting pushed back.
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
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But what's clear from this thread - and from many, many posts - is that bases are "too expensive". To me, that's interesting (as it is to the Serious Games crowd). Costume changes come with a minimal cost that no one really complains about, but we complain about the costs of bases.
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respectfully, states:
We complain about how expensive bases are because they are expensive. We can't get a 1:1 ratio for inf to prestige, so it's harder to raise the amount needed to do anything to the base.
Also, there are 2 (mainly 1) reasons why we don't complain about costume changes:
1. It's just not AS expensive. i think the most i've ever spent is 120k or so max. upper levels, that's only 3-5 SOs.. not much.
2. the main reason is all the freaking costume tokens. Now i know a lot of people love them, because they love to change their costumes a bunch.. but for a lot of people i know, they're just building up.. 1 costume token per slot, means everytime costume tokens are awarded, we're getting 4 (now 5) a time.. it just builds up so much, barely anybody is actually paying inf for the changes now, instead of just using a token. I know several people with 30+ tokens.. if the token awarding was scaled back, then you "may" hear more of complaining about costume prices..
heck, let us exchange the costume tokens for 100k prestige.. and PLEASE give us a better exchange rate for inf to prestige..
@Death Conqueror
-Goal for 2011: Survive, stay alive, and continue to thrive.
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That mission computer is pretty empty right now - how about allowing SG's to start all TF's from there provided someone in the SG did it previously (SG badge). Likewise, Police Band missions should be accessible from the SG computer. All of these should be flagged to generate some extra prestige when in SG mode to encourage groups to use their base.
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Ohh, nice idea, and it has the virtue that I'd guess it wouldn't be too hard to program or balance (compared to some things like PvE stuff in bases).
It has the nice feature that it would also give a reason for folks to actually spend a little time in their base, putting together the tf team, and they could work out of there to do selling, rezzing during the tf (sometimes a pain), etc. Right now I just swing through to drop off insps/enhs/salvage and to use the teleporters, though I usually use a coalition base for the latter, since they can afford to have more than 4 zones on the teleporter, unlike us.
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The "Mission computer" has A mission...one mission.
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*inserts tongue in cheek*
But... it says so right in the name of the item, right? If it offered more than one, it would be named "Missions Computer", wouldn't it?
Bases cost too much. As usual Jack you overvalued bases and devalued players.
A minimal base with just teleporters and a rez ring is astronomical....considering for 24 lvls we get 13 prestige a kill......or less.
The items that dont affect game play (costume like options) cost 1000 a piece....take up space. Teleporters are glaringly huge. You have to almost be a puzzle master in some rooms to get anything looking decent to fit inside.
The medbay with its 2 by 2 room....Looks awfully huge when you can really only afford to put one rez ring in there. Which is all a small base needs................but why in the hell is the room so freaking huge? Why is a teleporter so huge but a rez ring so small?
That last point goes on to many other things, Workshops. The workroom that can hold 3 things or so is over crowded, but the the next size up can hold 4 things and is almost 3 by 3. Its a hodge podge and you know it.
Actually look at bases, dont belittle the player base with your snide remarks and think were stupid. Were not the stupid ones......its you thats come back time and again with your half baked plans like boss changes, AV regen rates and that damn Regen scrapper video that clearly shows you dont have the foggiest clue whats going on in the Live version of the game.
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Lets look at one last definition:
Fascism - a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts the nation (or the SG) above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation.
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Let's not go non-sequitur by inferring Godwin's Law please.
First off, someone earlier pointed out wanting "windows". I think this is a pretty cool idea, and it would be nice to choose a "zone" where your base is theoreticly located (even though you can still access it from any base portal), then allowing the windows to have a view based on the appropriate zone (note, this would also include interdimensional zones and such as well as the various cityscapes).
Choosing an associated zone might also be a good way to limit the list of bases to visit when viewing a "public" base, if for instance, to enter a public base you actually had to go to the correct zone to see it.
Though I understand that there would be many difficulties involved, and some practical reasons not to do this, I would also rather see a means of choosing a door somewhere to use as a base entrance rather than just the generic base portal in every zone. That is part of the reason bases feel so "generic" to me to begin with, regardless of all the options we "theoreticly" have for customizing them (I don't actually have most of those options, since my VG consists only of my alts... I'm not one who would enjoy being part of a guild/SG/etc.)
As for the costs of bases, I agree wholeheartedly that they should be reduced nearly across the board (I don't have a problem with the 100 prestige decorative items, but most everything else should be re-examined). Furthermore, I would like to see base costs scaled to account for the number of people in the SG/VG. I know that people would look for ways to exploit this, such as having everybody but 1 quit the SG before rent comes due and other such silliness, but I'm sure there are ways to prevent that type of exploitation as well. (Not to mention that if costs were adjusted to a reasonable level, the only people who would bother with attempting such exploits are the people who get there primary enjoyment out of knowing they're exploiting something, and pretty much everyone else would just get on with the game)
One other small thing I'd like to see in bases is a option to play a choice of "zone/neighborhood" music inside the base (personally I'd set mine up with the Aeon City music).
As for what I get out of bases at the moment... Not much. I really have very little use for them. I have a minimally functional base using the new "control center" to manage a minimal medbay (which I'll be dumping as soon as I get the vet reward that lets me teleport directly to my base), a teleporter that goes to Port Oakes (to ease payment of base rent) and Cap au Diable (which is a travel hub I can go nearly everywhere from), and an enhancement storage device so I can twink my lower level alts without having to find somebody else to help me transfer inf to them first (I tend to play late at night, and can't always find someone when I need to)
Frankly if there was a way I could transfer inf between alts with a standalone ingame system (like /banktip in SWG or the mailboxes in WoW), and I was able to get a vet power that would teleport me to Cap au Diable instead of my base, then I'd have absolutely no need to even mess around with the hassle of bases. As things stand, I'm never going to be able to afford the prestige cost to build something worth "showing off", and even if I did want to play with numerous full teams (talk about excessive lag... I can hardly play if I have 2 MMs in my team), it's not like they're ever likely to get the Cathedral of Pain working anyway.
All in all, I'd rather see the dev teams working on something that is more universally useful, like vehicles or power customization... or a moon zone.
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
http://xx-starhammer-xx.deviantart.com/
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Admittedly, there's not quite the same amount of textures, colors, etc., but there's still a lot of versatility. And the layout possibilities are endless.
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And they're hidden away, effectively in their own dimension. Other people can see my costume and go 'wow' simply by my flying past. To see my base, they have to be in a coalition with me, or on my team while we go there (and for that to happen, we need to have a reason for them to go, other than me saying 'come check out the base'). They can't simply happen across it and go 'wow!'
When something has substantial show value, you have to be able to show it off!
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Agreed. Our SG has nine coalition links but we rarely ever journey into those other bases. No point other than to see what they're up to - and most times bases are empty because players are elsewhere in the game.
That said, they're supposed to be "secret" so not sure how you can make them visible without upsetting the roleplaying aspect. Hate to say it, but player apartments probably would have been more valued than community space inside a base - because we already have community space in the public zones.