[ QUOTE ]
MoG is broken. There simply shouldn't be powers like MoG in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, the same statement is essentially true for all defense powers in the presence of tohit buffs, which is why I advocate fixing that situation and them in the process, and not simply adding alternative protection mechanisms into sets that experience the problem.
For me, saying "defense is a lost cause: SR should just get other stuff and call it a day" is no different than saying "MoG is a lost cause, be thankful you get instant healing ten levels earlier than everyone else gets such a powerful power and call it even."
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MoG is broken. There simply shouldn't be powers like MoG in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, the same statement is essentially true for all defense powers in the presence of tohit buffs, which is why I advocate fixing that situation and them in the process, and not simply adding alternative protection mechanisms into sets that experience the problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you click a defense power or toggle it on. You're not worse off defensively just because that guy over there has FA. Now it might not be fair that the guy has FA and perhaps we need to give you something for that.
[ QUOTE ]
For me, saying "defense is a lost cause: SR should just get other stuff and call it a day" is no different than saying "MoG is a lost cause, be thankful you get instant healing ten levels earlier than everyone else gets such a powerful power and call it even."
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think defense is a lost cause, I think it's far harder to fix it than to just give SR something else. Fixing to-hit buffs would tick a whole lot of people off. And it would take more work than just giving SR Dull Pain.
You make this stuff too hard sometimes Arcana. I know you enjoy it and the intellectual exercise it presents, but any good former Dungeon or Game Master could fix this problem. Maybe it won't be perfect, but cripes we don't need perfect.
I don't want MoG to be changed in a way that makes Regen much better. I would prefer that it be changed as part of a reexamination of the set. I know many don't agree with that. That's cool. But I can still dream.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand, EG, I really do.
But you understand what I'm saying, too, I think.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course. But you have to understand, that I just want MoG not to be broken. It could still suck. An extra build up with a heal attached would make me happy as a clam.
[/ QUOTE ]
Roger that, man. Oddly, I'd like the same for SR. Buff the toggles and passives and nerf heck out of elude. I'd be giddy with delight.
Be well, people of CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
Regen is as popular as it is because of QR. Take QR out and you would see a whole lot less Regen although Regen's protective qualities wouldn't be any weaker.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hence the Stalker's version of Regen
[ QUOTE ]
You make this stuff too hard sometimes Arcana. I know you enjoy it and the intellectual exercise it presents, but any good former Dungeon or Game Master could fix this problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I didn't care what anyone else, including the devs or you, thought, I could fix the MoG problem in six seconds. I could fix the tohit problem in six minutes.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make this stuff too hard sometimes Arcana. I know you enjoy it and the intellectual exercise it presents, but any good former Dungeon or Game Master could fix this problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I didn't care what anyone else, including the devs or you, thought, I could fix the MoG problem in six seconds. I could fix the tohit problem in six minutes.
[/ QUOTE ]
On my way to my 2 pm meeting I was thinking of something I wanted to share with you.
A couple of years ago, I was playing Everquest Online Adventures and like here, I was an arrogant loudmouth on the boards. I used to rail against the mistreatment of my beloved druid class to no end. Long math filled posts, nothing as involved as what you did, but they were right.
Bordael (Lighthouse) just shut me down on one post with this little quip:
"Does everything have to be so mathematically precise after all?"
I was like WTH. Yes, danmit. Whole darn game was based on numbers after all. Well, I mulled over that for awhile and realized that at base he was kinda right. And I kinda calmed down. That's stayed with me in my two current MMOs.
Ironically, about a year after I left the game they wound up doing every single thing I proposed. Bastids. Which is why I still root for you Arcana! 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
"Does everything have to be so mathematically precise after all?"
[/ QUOTE ]
You should hit what you aim for. Costumes do not need to be mathematically precise. Teleportation speed does not need to be mathematically precise. Burst damage vs sustainable damage does not need to be mathematically precise.
But if you care at all, you should care enough to get it right. If the devs don't care about balance, they shouldn't shove balance in my face when they talk about changes. If they do care about balance, then the things they care about should actually balance.
The one thing I don't approve of is thinking you are being graded on a curve, and specifically shooting for "not provably bad." And worse: missing that.
I've said before: its possible to make a superhero themed MMO in which *nothing* is balanced. But only if you actually aim for that, and Cryptic didn't. And I'm considered extremely unrealistic for saying it.
Hit what you aim for. Or stop shooting.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
My Grandpa always said that. And he was a retired Green Beret major.
"If you're going to do something at all, then do it right."
[ QUOTE ]
But if you care at all, you should care enough to get it right. If the devs don't care about balance, they shouldn't shove balance in my face when they talk about changes. If they do care about balance, then the things they care about should actually balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're really going to have to open yourself up to the possibility that devs (not just our devs, devs in general) are full of poo sometimes! 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
My Grandpa always said that. And he was a retired Green Beret major.
"If you're going to do something at all, then do it right."
[/ QUOTE ]
That depends on what the definition of 'right' is. 
Not to mention what you mean by 'it'.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
..You make this stuff too hard sometimes Arcana. I know you enjoy it and the intellectual exercise it presents, but The_Gamemaster could trivially fix this problem. Maybe it won't be perfect, but cripes we don't need perfect...
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed that for you...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
..You make this stuff too hard sometimes Arcana. I know you enjoy it and the intellectual exercise it presents, but The_Gamemaster could trivially fix this problem. Maybe it won't be perfect, but cripes we don't need perfect...
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed that for you...
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a good thing I'm insufferably arrogant. I wouldn't survive around here for long otherwise.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Once you start buying your own ammo you shoot as many as you like.
Definitions from dictionary.com.
------------------------------------
Moment: -noun
An indefinitely short period of time; "instant".
Instant: -noun
An infinitesimal or very short space of time; a moment.
---------------------------
This is the only thing I have and will have ever said reguarding the so called Moment of Glory debate.
[ QUOTE ]
My Grandpa always said that. And he was a retired Green Beret major.
"If you're going to do something at all, then do it right."
[/ QUOTE ]
Shadow,
Sorry to rag on you but your Grandfather is a retired Special Forces major, a green beret is something you wear not something you are.
After 21yrs in the U.S. Army and wearing a beret long before it was the normal head gear it bugs to see things like this.
Anyway, your Grandfather was right; if you are not willing to do it right then you should not even try. But then who is to say what is right or not in CoX.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
..You make this stuff too hard sometimes Arcana. I know you enjoy it and the intellectual exercise it presents, but The_Gamemaster could trivially fix this problem. Maybe it won't be perfect, but cripes we don't need perfect...
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed that for you...
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a good thing I'm insufferably arrogant. I wouldn't survive around here for long otherwise.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Regen is as popular as it is because of QR. Take QR out and you would see a whole lot less Regen although Regen's protective qualities wouldn't be any weaker.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hence the Stalker's version of Regen
[/ QUOTE ]
Case closed 
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, your Grandfather was right; if you are not willing to do it right then you should not even try. But then who is to say what is right or not in CoX.
[/ QUOTE ]
The devs point at the target, and the devs voluntarily fire. They do not get to say, afterwards, that the target was not in the right place to intercept the shot.
You can argue that they should not be held to my standards, but they should at least be held to theirs. They reduced the damage of thunder kick by 16% because it didn't fit a formula that is provably irrelevant to balance in the first place, just because its the formula they happened to use to design the powers originally. In other words, their excuse for nerfing a power isn't that it was unbalanced, or made MA too good, or because it was typographically wrong. It was changed because it didn't fit a formula, period. By sixteen percent.
If they can tell me that is reasonable, their "mathematical precision" cover is blown: they have no right with me to suggest that other numbers cannot be balanced based on other, much more legitimate, balancing equations.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, your Grandfather was right; if you are not willing to do it right then you should not even try. But then who is to say what is right or not in CoX.
[/ QUOTE ]
The devs point at the target, and the devs voluntarily fire. They do not get to say, afterwards, that the target was not in the right place to intercept the shot.
You can argue that they should not be held to my standards, but they should at least be held to theirs. They reduced the damage of thunder kick by 16% because it didn't fit a formula that is provably irrelevant to balance in the first place, just because its the formula they happened to use to design the powers originally. In other words, their excuse for nerfing a power isn't that it was unbalanced, or made MA too good, or because it was typographically wrong. It was changed because it didn't fit a formula, period. By sixteen percent.
If they can tell me that is reasonable, their "mathematical precision" cover is blown: they have no right with me to suggest that other numbers cannot be balanced based on other, much more legitimate, balancing equations.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahem....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But if you care at all, you should care enough to get it right. If the devs don't care about balance, they shouldn't shove balance in my face when they talk about changes. If they do care about balance, then the things they care about should actually balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're really going to have to open yourself up to the possibility that devs (not just our devs, devs in general) are full of poo sometimes!
[/ QUOTE ]
And with that, screw you guys...I'm going home.
(If anyone thinks I insulted them, watch more South Park).
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My Grandpa always said that. And he was a retired Green Beret major.
"If you're going to do something at all, then do it right."
[/ QUOTE ]
Shadow,
Sorry to rag on you but your Grandfather is a retired Special Forces major, a green beret is something you wear not something you are.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm aware of this. But I also post considering the audience of people who are going to read it.
But after 21 years in the Army, I can see why you'd be edgy to that nickname.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But if you care at all, you should care enough to get it right. If the devs don't care about balance, they shouldn't shove balance in my face when they talk about changes. If they do care about balance, then the things they care about should actually balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're really going to have to open yourself up to the possibility that devs (not just our devs, devs in general) are full of poo sometimes!
[/ QUOTE ]
And with that, screw you guys...I'm going home.
(If anyone thinks I insulted them, watch more South Park).
[/ QUOTE ]
HEY!!! I RESENT THAT BOLD COMMENT!!!!
<QR>
Since this is a debate, I'll jump in here with my rather unscientific opinion. I had a regen scrapper pre-ED (thus, also pre- defense scaling) and, despite what everyone said, I took MoG and slotted it out. I loved it. It wasn't that power that I'd hit in preparation of the huge mass of reds and purples I was about to jump into. It was that power that allowed me to survive that huge mass of reds and purples -after- I jumped into them and realized I was in over my head. It's the only super-defense power that is truely useful at less than 10% of your hp. It's the only power I've seen that lets you keep fighting -after- you've already fought yourself to your last breath.
It really does fit the name. You're a regen. You jump into a group and start tearing them apart. Unfortunately, they're tearing you apart just as much and your team is falling left and right. You're in the red. Hit MoG. You're still in the red, but you'll probably have more hp than before you hit it. If you were invuln and hit Unstoppable at 10% hp, you're probably still going down. If you were SR and hit Elude at 10%, you're banking on that one lucky shot never landing. No, as a regen, you've already fought and are gasping at your last breath... that last breath invokes MoG and you're back at (functional, except vs. psi & toxic) full glory.
It provides a higher defense than any other tier 9 and, with just one resist enhancement (barring any large resist debuffs), you are taking only one quarter the damage you would have taken, but it's hitting one quarter the hp you normally have. That's a wash.
It's also the only tier 9 I've seen that doesn't crash your endurance - or worse, crash your endurance and your hp at the end. If you've survived the full duration (and you were going to die if you didn't hit it, anyways), then you hit Dull Pain and Reconstruction and, voila, you're once again at full efficiency.
As a disclaimer to my own experiences with MoG, I will note that I did not have an optimized build. MoG saved my rear end and, pulling agro with shockwave, allowed my team to retreat and regroup on more than a couple occasions.
I guess the main point I would make in this rambling, scattered post is that, to me, MoG does make thematic sense. The regen already has all the tools it needs to survive his everyday fight well before MoG. This Moment of Glory is truely a "I'm dead" moment that gloriously becomes a very resilient second wind.
It's like Wolverine pushing back against Jean Grey/Phoenix in the third movie... he's dieing, his flesh is peeling back and he's losing his footing. He calls upon a Moment of Glory right there. (Please note, my knowledge of Wolverine and the comics is limited almost entirely to this set of movies, so I use this scene as only an analogy of what MoG is like to me - not as any comment or comparison of what Wolverine should or shouldn't be able to do.)
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
Since this is a debate, I'll jump in here with my rather unscientific opinion. I had a regen scrapper pre-ED (thus, also pre- defense scaling) and, despite what everyone said, I took MoG and slotted it out. I loved it. It wasn't that power that I'd hit in preparation of the huge mass of reds and purples I was about to jump into. It was that power that allowed me to survive that huge mass of reds and purples -after- I jumped into them and realized I was in over my head. It's the only super-defense power that is truely useful at less than 10% of your hp. It's the only power I've seen that lets you keep fighting -after- you've already fought yourself to your last breath.
It really does fit the name. You're a regen. You jump into a group and start tearing them apart. Unfortunately, they're tearing you apart just as much and your team is falling left and right. You're in the red. Hit MoG. You're still in the red, but you'll probably have more hp than before you hit it. If you were invuln and hit Unstoppable at 10% hp, you're probably still going down. If you were SR and hit Elude at 10%, you're banking on that one lucky shot never landing. No, as a regen, you've already fought and are gasping at your last breath... that last breath invokes MoG and you're back at (functional, except vs. psi & toxic) full glory.
It provides a higher defense than any other tier 9 and, with just one resist enhancement (barring any large resist debuffs), you are taking only one quarter the damage you would have taken, but it's hitting one quarter the hp you normally have. That's a wash.
It's also the only tier 9 I've seen that doesn't crash your endurance - or worse, crash your endurance and your hp at the end. If you've survived the full duration (and you were going to die if you didn't hit it, anyways), then you hit Dull Pain and Reconstruction and, voila, you're once again at full efficiency.
As a disclaimer to my own experiences with MoG, I will note that I did not have an optimized build. MoG saved my rear end and, pulling agro with shockwave, allowed my team to retreat and regroup on more than a couple occasions.
I guess the main point I would make in this rambling, scattered post is that, to me, MoG does make thematic sense. The regen already has all the tools it needs to survive his everyday fight well before MoG. This Moment of Glory is truely a "I'm dead" moment that gloriously becomes a very resilient second wind.
It's like Wolverine pushing back against Jean Grey/Phoenix in the third movie... he's dieing, his flesh is peeling back and he's losing his footing. He calls upon a Moment of Glory right there. (Please note, my knowledge of Wolverine and the comics is limited almost entirely to this set of movies, so I use this scene as only an analogy of what MoG is like to me - not as any comment or comparison of what Wolverine should or shouldn't be able to do.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Just one thing: MoG is not a good comparison to make to Wolverine. In that scene basically Wolverine's health was always regening. Think of it of maximum IH all the time. There never is a need for wolverine to MoG. Regen scrappers ain't got nothing on Wolverine.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
..You make this stuff too hard sometimes Arcana. I know you enjoy it and the intellectual exercise it presents, but The_Gamemaster could trivially fix this problem. Maybe it won't be perfect, but cripes we don't need perfect...
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed that for you...
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a good thing I'm insufferably arrogant. I wouldn't survive around here for long otherwise.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow... I've more in common with EG than I thought.
Be well, people of CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
Since this is a debate, I'll jump in here with my rather unscientific opinion. I had a regen scrapper pre-ED (thus, also pre- defense scaling) and, despite what everyone said, I took MoG and slotted it out. I loved it. It wasn't that power that I'd hit in preparation of the huge mass of reds and purples I was about to jump into. It was that power that allowed me to survive that huge mass of reds and purples -after- I jumped into them and realized I was in over my head. It's the only super-defense power that is truely useful at less than 10% of your hp. It's the only power I've seen that lets you keep fighting -after- you've already fought yourself to your last breath.
It really does fit the name. You're a regen. You jump into a group and start tearing them apart. Unfortunately, they're tearing you apart just as much and your team is falling left and right. You're in the red. Hit MoG. You're still in the red, but you'll probably have more hp than before you hit it. If you were invuln and hit Unstoppable at 10% hp, you're probably still going down. If you were SR and hit Elude at 10%, you're banking on that one lucky shot never landing. No, as a regen, you've already fought and are gasping at your last breath... that last breath invokes MoG and you're back at (functional, except vs. psi & toxic) full glory.
It provides a higher defense than any other tier 9 and, with just one resist enhancement (barring any large resist debuffs), you are taking only one quarter the damage you would have taken, but it's hitting one quarter the hp you normally have. That's a wash.
It's also the only tier 9 I've seen that doesn't crash your endurance - or worse, crash your endurance and your hp at the end. If you've survived the full duration (and you were going to die if you didn't hit it, anyways), then you hit Dull Pain and Reconstruction and, voila, you're once again at full efficiency.
As a disclaimer to my own experiences with MoG, I will note that I did not have an optimized build. MoG saved my rear end and, pulling agro with shockwave, allowed my team to retreat and regroup on more than a couple occasions.
I guess the main point I would make in this rambling, scattered post is that, to me, MoG does make thematic sense. The regen already has all the tools it needs to survive his everyday fight well before MoG. This Moment of Glory is truely a "I'm dead" moment that gloriously becomes a very resilient second wind.
It's like Wolverine pushing back against Jean Grey/Phoenix in the third movie... he's dieing, his flesh is peeling back and he's losing his footing. He calls upon a Moment of Glory right there. (Please note, my knowledge of Wolverine and the comics is limited almost entirely to this set of movies, so I use this scene as only an analogy of what MoG is like to me - not as any comment or comparison of what Wolverine should or shouldn't be able to do.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Just one thing: MoG is not a good comparison to make to Wolverine. In that scene basically Wolverine's health was always regening. Think of it of maximum IH all the time. There never is a need for wolverine to MoG. Regen scrappers ain't got nothing on Wolverine.
[/ QUOTE ]
I went ahead and highlighted what I thought was an important bit of disclaimer in my original opinion. For clarity (and, hopefully, some teasing humor), I'll simply rewrite that entire paragraph.
It's like Noodle pushing back against Lobster/Roborock in some random movie... he's dieing, his flesh is peeling back and he's losing his footing. He calls upon a Moment of Glory right there.
In this particular scene, which has nothing to do with Wolverine or his unimaginable regenerative properties, Noodle's flesh is being stripped away by the combined powers of Lobster and Roborock. Man, that's some boiling, flesh-flaying gritty pain, right there. Noodle is dieing and he knows he's going to go down. But, Noodle has one extra packet of sauce left. He tears open his sauce packet and basks in his Moment of Glory, restoring him from near death to once again slapping his enemies like a wet noodle. For sheer entertainment purposes, I always imagine this scene looking exactly like that one scene in that comics movie, where that regenerating guy's flesh is being eaten up by some psychic schizo's assault.
[ QUOTE ]
wait wait wat so your telling me THE best scrapper secondary, and the only one to get an auto power better than stamina, and the only one to get a god like mode at 28 should also get the same priveledge as all the other lackluster sets that get a true god mode?????
how about dark??
jeebus you regens are so pissed about your previous nerfs your blind that this will never change because it IS balanced. instant healing works fine as a semi god mode, and with all of regens other redeeming qualities IMO it doesnt even deserve MoG it should have the rez as the tier 9 and some other auto similar to resilience but +def instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please read the first post to the end.
By the way, a +def auto would be great. I don't even disagree that a rez makes sense for Regen as it's ultimate power. I don't disagree that IH is our godmode. All this stuff has been vetted before.
But I will take one issue. "Deserve" is meaningless in this discussion. Regen is as popular as it is because of QR. Take QR out and you would see a whole lot less Regen although Regen's protective qualities wouldn't be any weaker.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.