Only thing I can think of to say to that...
roflcopter
I've tried, honestly, I've tried to find a context in which MoG is not a suicide pill, and the fact that I can enumerate them from memory after months of not playing my 50 regen is a sign:
1) it sure scares off stalkers. Fine if you want to be left alone. And some stalkers are so dumb they thing it was assassin strike that brought your hps so low. But PvP is a dumb reason for any power.
2) Sometimes you find those mobs of wolves who only have lethal/smashing powers, or something like that.
It's a dumb power. It's actually a flip side to another dumb thing about the game. A smart designer would not have made one form of damage the uber damage (Psionics), but would have adopted a scissors/paper/rock system (so fire should be really good against ice, for example). That would have been in the spirit of super heroes from Achilles to Superman: invincible, but one hidden weakness.
Bt anyway, there are always people who claim everything requires 'skills', they are seldom willing to explain the skill involved. It's a very tedious thing.
What if upon using MoG all the aspects remained the same, BUT every time you killed a critter you regened x% of your total hp according to enemy rank/level
say...
1% per minion
3% per lt
5% per boss
and maybe like a .5% bonus for each level over or under you they are
so...
+1 minions would be worth 1.5% of your total health regained
+4 boss would be 7%
-1 lt would be 2.5%
it wouldn't have to be enough to get your hp bar to full just enough to aleviate the problem of MoG users having about 2 mins of carnage and then having to tread lightly for fear of losing what little bit of hp they have left.
Another suggestion i thought up is: turn off the -regen component of MoG while keeping the -heal BUT have MoG only let you regen up to the 25% hp cap
Moment of Glory..
I remember respeccing out of MoG with my 50 a while back. MoG completely ruins the Regeneration set. Has nothing to do with what /Regens are made for, and even if you do have it, it takes a while for the +Defense to kick in. I noticed if you use it as an "Holy Crap!" button, it WILL get you killed. (It did a ton for me.) I use it when I have low health, mostly above the MoG drop, and the Defense it gives doesn't do [censored]. Please, if you want us to make more Regens, I'd suggest making our last Regen power a LOT mores useful. By that I mean like lots of +Regen, and +Recovery. Not a big 'drop my health down, give me NO regen, but boost my Def and Res a bit' power. (Or save yourselves some trouble, and bring Instant Healing back to a toggle with the End Cost of a thousand DA Scrappers/Brutes.) 
-Bruiser
<qr>
Let's just axe MoG and replace it. How about a clicky power that is like healing flames for endurance? It would be unique, fit thematically, be useful (I know my regen build still has stamina, although it isn't REQUIRED, in a level or so when I pick up FA I'll be glad I have it, I'm sure). Throwing in a buff back to IH would be nice too, but just a "spent 5 end, get 25 base end back" ever 60 seconds power would be useful.
Or - here's a thought - IH for endurance. Take that, sappers - you click it, it's like AB on steroids to yourself. End drain is laughable. Maybe it makes you immune/resistant to end drain.
Or, here's a thought - a passive that provides heavy resistance to -recovery and -regen powers, perhaps with some other benefit. Perhaps combine this with the "healing flames for recovery" power.
Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
MoG is purely situational, alot don't like it, some do, if you don't like it, could always find a way to work in the fighting pool and bypass it and the ancillary pool for the added def/resist. I have MoG, barely use it since Recon/DP have never failed me. Tested MoG when I got it at 38 by hitting DP, then MoG and fighting the nemesis at the boat in PI and winning. (Warhulk, fake nem and I forgot the lil ones) It's meant IMO as a purely "O crap I'm gonna die anyhow, might as well go down swinging" click. Now to make it trully such, I'd say put a +recharge on it to the point of hasten.
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
This will probably be taken poorly, but from what minimal details I see in these results, I'm not surprised at the conclusion.
Let's throw some more details in there. While fighting this same AV spawn, IH and DP are trucking along just fine while you have inspirations to complement them. But you don't always have optimal inspirations and situations come up when nothing in your tray will help. The chips fail and your IH + DP are not keeping you out of the red; activating MoG just gave you 50 more seconds to try and finish off that AV.
Hitting MoG before a fight is silly. That's what the other tier 9's do. Regen gets the benefit of fighting the big battles to the brink of death and then using their tier 9's.
Also, I know this isn't a comparison thread, but... you said this was all damage that is defended against by MoG? No other tier 9 (in my experience) would have handled that any better. They all have a lower defense buff as well as a lower resistance buff, if any. Granted, they can still heal themselves if they have inspirations or healing powers within the set, but if they don't... they don't have another emergency button.
MoG is a true panic button. Not a "Oh, this fight looks like it will be tough" button, like the other tier 9's end up being. MoG can extend the fight - by 13 seconds, 50 seconds or by its full duration.
Also, I love the suggestion that MoG give a +recharge, also.
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Worth noting: assuming you used dull pain inside of MoG (and I presume you would), the death in 13 seconds implies an eluded scrapper would have died in even less time, unless they immediately used respites. Even with fully slotted health, an SR scrapper would only recover about 130 health in 13 seconds at level 50. A MoGed scrapper with dull pain has the equivalent of 789 health more than a conventional SR scrapper.
I think actually that one thing you might be seeing here is accuracy cap-out. The combination of invincible, and AV accuracy, and archery accuracy, is applying so much accuracy to those foes that they might more than drive Regen to the ceiling. In effect, Regen outside of MoG doesn't get hurt proportionately as much as an Eluded or MoGed scrapper because the accuracy that is boosting Elude and MoG off the floor gets partially capitated by the tohit ceiling. Was Snaptooth even, or +2 in the invincible mission?
I haven't had a chance to try this out yet: it'll be interesting to see how Invuln, SR, Regen, and DA all work out.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
This will probably be taken poorly, but from what minimal details I see in these results, I'm not surprised at the conclusion.
Let's throw some more details in there. While fighting this same AV spawn, IH and DP are trucking along just fine while you have inspirations to complement them. But you don't always have optimal inspirations and situations come up when nothing in your tray will help. The chips fail and your IH + DP are not keeping you out of the red; activating MoG just gave you 50 more seconds to try and finish off that AV.
Hitting MoG before a fight is silly. That's what the other tier 9's do. Regen gets the benefit of fighting the big battles to the brink of death and then using their tier 9's.
Also, I know this isn't a comparison thread, but... you said this was all damage that is defended against by MoG? No other tier 9 (in my experience) would have handled that any better. They all have a lower defense buff as well as a lower resistance buff, if any. Granted, they can still heal themselves if they have inspirations or healing powers within the set, but if they don't... they don't have another emergency button.
MoG is a true panic button. Not a "Oh, this fight looks like it will be tough" button, like the other tier 9's end up being. MoG can extend the fight - by 13 seconds, 50 seconds or by its full duration.
Also, I love the suggestion that MoG give a +recharge, also.
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I didn't use MoG before the battle. I used it at the time I would have went to the inspiration tray. I was at low health, recon was down, DP was up, IH was down (used it last battle). If I hadn't planned at stopped at the bartender for inspirations, I wouldn't have had any options.
So I hit MoG. MoG didn't allow me to finish the fight. For me, that's the rub. Even if I had killed snaptooth and died to his minions, at least the mission would have been done.
A power that just lets you get in a hit or two before dying is a crappy power. And this is further evidence for my theory. MoG's defenders use the power when you would easily survive out of MoG. It's the only thing that makes sense.
When do you use MoG? I've tried using it when people say use it and it fails. I'm not making this up. This power has no reasonable use I am able to ascertain.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Worth noting: assuming you used dull pain inside of MoG (and I presume you would), the death in 13 seconds implies an eluded scrapper would have died in even less time, unless they immediately used respites. Even with fully slotted health, an SR scrapper would only recover about 130 health in 13 seconds at level 50. A MoGed scrapper with dull pain has the equivalent of 789 health more than a conventional SR scrapper.
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Going on with your next point, I used it against Snappy and his gang because I knew the accuracy was so high they probably would have been able to wear me down. But cripes 13 seconds? I was surprised how easy it was for them. But an SR would have had an advantage I lacked in MoG. Sturdies.
Elude + 5 Sturdies = Beatdown for Snappy.
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I think actually that one thing you might be seeing here is accuracy cap-out. The combination of invincible, and AV accuracy, and archery accuracy, is applying so much accuracy to those foes that they might more than drive Regen to the ceiling. In effect, Regen outside of MoG doesn't get hurt proportionately as much as an Eluded or MoGed scrapper because the accuracy that is boosting Elude and MoG off the floor gets partially capitated by the tohit ceiling. Was Snaptooth even, or +2 in the invincible mission?
I haven't had a chance to try this out yet: it'll be interesting to see how Invuln, SR, Regen, and DA all work out.
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Snappy and his boys were 52.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Worth noting: assuming you used dull pain inside of MoG (and I presume you would), the death in 13 seconds implies an eluded scrapper would have died in even less time, unless they immediately used respites. Even with fully slotted health, an SR scrapper would only recover about 130 health in 13 seconds at level 50. A MoGed scrapper with dull pain has the equivalent of 789 health more than a conventional SR scrapper.
[/ QUOTE ]
Going on with your next point, I used it against Snappy and his gang because I knew the accuracy was so high they probably would have been able to wear me down. But cripes 13 seconds? I was surprised how easy it was for them. But an SR would have had an advantage I lacked in MoG. Sturdies.
Elude + 5 Sturdies = Beatdown for Snappy.
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Snappy!
With all three Passives, five sturdies would help, but adding a couple or four reds would help more. If they ate through MoG that fast, Elude would be a complete nonfactor as well, unless you just click it for the endo recovery.
My memory must be fading...is this the same Snappy that I repeatedly beat down in the winter event, often using no inspirations at all? Even my gimp AR/Eng pounded that wuss. 
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Worth noting: assuming you used dull pain inside of MoG (and I presume you would), the death in 13 seconds implies an eluded scrapper would have died in even less time, unless they immediately used respites. Even with fully slotted health, an SR scrapper would only recover about 130 health in 13 seconds at level 50. A MoGed scrapper with dull pain has the equivalent of 789 health more than a conventional SR scrapper.
[/ QUOTE ]
Going on with your next point, I used it against Snappy and his gang because I knew the accuracy was so high they probably would have been able to wear me down. But cripes 13 seconds? I was surprised how easy it was for them. But an SR would have had an advantage I lacked in MoG. Sturdies.
Elude + 5 Sturdies = Beatdown for Snappy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Snappy!
With all three Passives, five sturdies would help, but adding a couple or four reds would help more. If they ate through MoG that fast, Elude would be a complete nonfactor as well, unless you just click it for the endo recovery.
My memory must be fading...is this the same Snappy that I repeatedly beat down in the winter event, often using no inspirations at all? Even my gimp AR/Eng pounded that wuss.
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference was that was Snappy by himself and he is a wuss. The Valentine's day Snappy calls in his boys to help beat you down. They all have an accuracy bonus on their attacks. Having twelve Redcaps and an EB hitting on you wears you down quick.
With MoG, because you can't heal and can't really get benefit from any inspirations you're stuck.
With an SR with Sturdies, the defense + resistance would have give the SR breathing room to leisurely take Snappy down. That's how my DM/EA Brute did it and she didn't even have Overload yet.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I got MoG again on my Spines/Regen. Its still the same power that I remeber, it will get me killed for just using it in the wrong situations, which I dont do. When it does work is the same situations where DP+IH works great.
I enjoy it a little more now becuase I know when I use it its a crap shoot on my survival. I was using it on Wolves, Freaks, Shadow Monkey things, Malta and Nems with Vengance. The last 2 where the times when I died or was close to dying. But I was never in trouble when I didnt use it. I have yet to be in a battle where I said "Oh crap! Time to use MoG" its more like "Hey guys, watch me be a goof and use MoG when I dont need to".
MoG is like climbing a mountain. I dont need to and the act may get me killed, but I get some wierd thrill out of trying it anyways. I can see why some people like it, I just cant see how some people think they're better off or get themselves to a point where they need to click it because they have run out of other options.
This is coming from a long time MoG hater, I will continue to use MoG because I get a wierd thrill out of it but I still believe its a bad power that will get you killed more often then just using the other tools you have, Recon + DP +IH + Inspirations + Aidself(EG bad teachings). I understand both sides a little better now but I still wish they would change it to some power that I can use more often for a smaller benefit.
I'm in the same boat as Gangrel. I actually use MoG sometimes, like with Snappy when I know it's a gamble. I just wish the gamble would pay even money.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Worth noting: assuming you used dull pain inside of MoG (and I presume you would), the death in 13 seconds implies an eluded scrapper would have died in even less time, unless they immediately used respites. Even with fully slotted health, an SR scrapper would only recover about 130 health in 13 seconds at level 50. A MoGed scrapper with dull pain has the equivalent of 789 health more than a conventional SR scrapper.
[/ QUOTE ]
Going on with your next point, I used it against Snappy and his gang because I knew the accuracy was so high they probably would have been able to wear me down. But cripes 13 seconds? I was surprised how easy it was for them. But an SR would have had an advantage I lacked in MoG. Sturdies.
Elude + 5 Sturdies = Beatdown for Snappy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Snappy!
With all three Passives, five sturdies would help, but adding a couple or four reds would help more. If they ate through MoG that fast, Elude would be a complete nonfactor as well, unless you just click it for the endo recovery.
My memory must be fading...is this the same Snappy that I repeatedly beat down in the winter event, often using no inspirations at all? Even my gimp AR/Eng pounded that wuss.
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference was that was Snappy by himself and he is a wuss. The Valentine's day Snappy calls in his boys to help beat you down. They all have an accuracy bonus on their attacks. Having twelve Redcaps and an EB hitting on you wears you down quick.
With MoG, because you can't heal and can't really get benefit from any inspirations you're stuck.
With an SR with Sturdies, the defense + resistance would have give the SR breathing room to leisurely take Snappy down. That's how my DM/EA Brute did it and she didn't even have Overload yet.
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12 redcaps! I see...
Not to mention--Dark Melee>>Broad Sword 
Actually for this particular content. BS >> DM
Parry gives you a Defense buff to everything hitting you. DM is mostly single target and so the -to-hit only works on what you have your attention one. Additionally BS has better AoE.
My DM/EA had to use Lucks as well as sturdies, but Snappy was missing quite a bit because of ToF.
During the Winter event Snappy DM >> BS because of the damage type and the lesser number of mobs.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Testing update.
Heroic spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in MoG in 50 sec.
Invincible spawn of Snaptooth AV and minions - Died in 13 sec.
That's all damage MoG is supposed to protect you from, folks. Same spawns with inspirations and or IH/DP led to victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
I even went so far as to do my own testing with MoG against Snaptooth. I'll try and be as concise as I can.
Character: Salostophus
lvl 50 Spines/Regen
Spines powers all have 3 HO's in them (green at 50+)
Character has Freedom Phalanx Reserve, Atlas Medallion, Portal Jockey and Task Force Commander.
Fought lvl 51 EB Snaptooth on Invincible.
Dull Pain and MoG turned on with Hasten and began the battle.
Died in 29 seconds.
Fought lvl 50 EB Snaptooth on Heroic
Dull Pain and MoG turned on with Hasten and began the battle.
Died in 1 minute and 28 seconds.
Just to prove the point even further I then set the mish on Unyielding and played against a lvl 51 Snaptooth EB.
Using just Dull Pain, 1 small purple, Instant Healing, Hasten and Air Superiority on auto fire I defeated him swiftly and relatively quickly in just over 2 min. I never ONCE came close to death. If that just doesn't make you want to cry blood I don't know what does 
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FYI: Snaptooth is not an AV. He's an EB no matter what setting you put it on. I beat him on Invincible, just not in the "Moment of Glory".
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Actually for this particular content. BS >> DM
Parry gives you a Defense buff to everything hitting you. DM is mostly single target and so the -to-hit only works on what you have your attention one. Additionally BS has better AoE.
My DM/EA had to use Lucks as well as sturdies, but Snappy was missing quite a bit because of ToF.
During the Winter event Snappy DM >> BS because of the damage type and the lesser number of mobs.
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I guess, EG, but against that many mobs, Soul Drain>>BuildUp and Shadow Maul becomes a mowing scythe...meanwhile, ToF neutralizes the EB long enough for you to dispatch his help.
Fight! Fight! I just had a flashback to the smelly cafeteria in my High school and I blame you both and the "Americans"
Dont forget DM has that extra heal to help with the inc damage.
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Actually for this particular content. BS >> DM
Parry gives you a Defense buff to everything hitting you. DM is mostly single target and so the -to-hit only works on what you have your attention one. Additionally BS has better AoE.
My DM/EA had to use Lucks as well as sturdies, but Snappy was missing quite a bit because of ToF.
During the Winter event Snappy DM >> BS because of the damage type and the lesser number of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess, EG, but against that many mobs, Soul Drain>>BuildUp and Shadow Maul becomes a mowing scythe...meanwhile, ToF neutralizes the EB long enough for you to dispatch his help.
[/ QUOTE ]
Shadow Maul's tiny cone just doesn't do it for me. When you hear the CRUNCH of Slice and the BOOM of Whirling sword connecting 13 times, you feel all tingly inside. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Actually for this particular content. BS >> DM
Parry gives you a Defense buff to everything hitting you. DM is mostly single target and so the -to-hit only works on what you have your attention one. Additionally BS has better AoE.
My DM/EA had to use Lucks as well as sturdies, but Snappy was missing quite a bit because of ToF.
During the Winter event Snappy DM >> BS because of the damage type and the lesser number of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess, EG, but against that many mobs, Soul Drain>>BuildUp and Shadow Maul becomes a mowing scythe...meanwhile, ToF neutralizes the EB long enough for you to dispatch his help.
[/ QUOTE ]
Shadow Maul's tiny cone just doesn't do it for me. When you hear the CRUNCH of Slice and the BOOM of Whirling sword connecting 13 times, you feel all tingly inside.
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I certainly can't dispute the coolness of or the tingly feelings brought on by swinging a Broadsword...I was just talking about winning the fight.
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Actually for this particular content. BS >> DM
Parry gives you a Defense buff to everything hitting you. DM is mostly single target and so the -to-hit only works on what you have your attention one. Additionally BS has better AoE.
My DM/EA had to use Lucks as well as sturdies, but Snappy was missing quite a bit because of ToF.
During the Winter event Snappy DM >> BS because of the damage type and the lesser number of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess, EG, but against that many mobs, Soul Drain>>BuildUp and Shadow Maul becomes a mowing scythe...meanwhile, ToF neutralizes the EB long enough for you to dispatch his help.
[/ QUOTE ]
Shadow Maul's tiny cone just doesn't do it for me. When you hear the CRUNCH of Slice and the BOOM of Whirling sword connecting 13 times, you feel all tingly inside.
[/ QUOTE ]
I certainly can't dispute the coolness of or the tingly feelings brought on by swinging a Broadsword...I was just talking about winning the fight.
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BAH!!! What's the point of winning the fight if you don't get all tingly inside. What the hell kinda Scrapper are you!?! 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Interesting.