I think the main grief is:
1) The power is awful
2) It is counter productive to the enitre set.
Regen is about taking hits and recovering HP fast enough to allow you to take such hits. MoG effectively kills all your powers (save quick recovery) and the entire theme of your secondary. It'd like taking Elude and making it root you, resist all damage up to 80, and regen at an increased rate. That doesn't fit the "Super Reflexes" style. Mind you, despite the rooting, that's still a better power than MoG, but you get the picture. MoG defeats the purpose of Regen and is horrible right down to its very core to boot.
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The artificial distinction being made here is between allowing tough to be judged stacked on top of regeneration, to heighten its net overall benefit, but not judging MoG's strengths and weaknesses relative to the rest of the set. It has strengths the rest of the set lacks: that is what is being counterbalanced against the weaknesses it has (that the rest of the set also lacks).
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Nonsense. We don't judge MoG relative to the rest of the set, because it overpowers or turns the rest of the set off. It has no strenghts. None.
I do not accept that a power with so many problems as useful to me. MoG's useful life is so minimal that I never have a need of it when lucks are more available.
And honestly, Arcana, I believe you are being disingenuous in this discussion. Elude is ALWAYS better than lucks. Unstoppable is ALWAYS better than Sturdies. Both give other effects that are hard or even impossible to replicate with Inspirations.
Lucks put you in a BETTER defensive state than MoG. So much so that you're better off using them. Sturdies can put you in a better resistance state than Tough....for awhile. But Tough does it all the time for what is to a Regen a minimal endurance cost.
Look, it's really as simple as we're making it out to be. I've played this set a long time and I NEVER need MoG. Ever. I have NO use for MoG. None. You can keep up with the theories, but I put the same challenge to you. Give me a situation, a real game situation where I would use MoG. I'll plan around it. Yes, I'll use inspirations often time, but who cares because that's part of our powers as well.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I've played this set a long time and I NEVER need MoG. Ever. I have NO use for MoG. None.
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I'm a nobody, but I say the same thing in every MoG thread.
I think this is something that a lot of people just "don't get". I certainly can't explain it any better, and I certainly don't blame those that just can't understand this sentiment. Until this "understanding" is reached (or MoG just goes the [censored] away), debates like this will continue as they have for however long it's been going on now.
People who "like" MoG? All the power to you. People who put MoG "to use"? All the power to you.
I can guarantee that I'll come out better than the MoGer every time in the exact same situation though. All I have for proof is my conviction and word to go on....just like those that say MoG is the holy divine power of their awesomeness. *shrug*
I've already forgotten about most of you
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I've played this set a long time and I NEVER need MoG. Ever. I have NO use for MoG. None.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a nobody, but I say the same thing in every MoG thread.
I think this is something that a lot of people just "don't get". I certainly can't explain it any better, and I certainly don't blame those that just can't understand this sentiment. Until this "understanding" is reached (or MoG just goes the [censored] away), debates like this will continue as they have for however long it's been going on now.
People who "like" MoG? All the power to you. People who put MoG "to use"? All the power to you.
I can guarantee that I'll come out better than the MoGer every time in the exact same situation though. All I have for proof is my conviction and word to go on....just like those that say MoG is the holy divine power of their awesomeness. *shrug*
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I really don't understand why this is difficult to understand. I have MoG, took it at 49 because I didn't want anything else. I really, really get that some people find it to be a fun power.
I am not making ANY claims on the power being fun. Fun is a 100% subjective term. What I am saying is that I have found MoG to be too dangerous a gamble to be effective in every instance where one would consider using MoG. I have been told that Geko will not approve any changes to the power at this time, so I made this post so we can have one permanent place to fight about MoG and so I could make my arguments once.
I agree with Wokka that he can find a use for the power. Good luck to him.
I agree with Arcanaville that an outright buff of the power would be unbalancing. I think she has the ulterior motive of insuring that Regen doesn't further outstrip SR. Fair enough, I guess I would feel the same in her shoes.
I agree with Alisson that people who don't care about the numbers can have fun with the power.
But I cannot understand how you people can disagree with this point: A prepared and skilled Regen Scrapper ALWAYS has a better option than MoG. Doesn't mean you won't use MoG anyway, just that there is probably a better option out there you've chosen to not use.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Agreeing with me?
It just discredits you. I advise against doing so.
I've already forgotten about most of you
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Agreeing with me?
It just discredits you. I advise against doing so.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everthing that comes out of my mouth is per se discredited so
- discredit * -discredit = +credit 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
*shifty eyes*
That loooks like Cryptic programming methods.
*ducks*
I've already forgotten about most of you
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Rebuttal: How can you hate a power with that cool an animation? That's right. You can't.
Therefore Moment of Glory is indeed, glorious. QED.
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That's fine. Only use it in Atlas to impress the noobs.
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Yes, that is one good use for it. Another good use for it is to scare the bejesus out of the healer on your team who has never seen MoG in use. It scares them that some invisible attack just took 75% of your HP and now they can't heal you. Priceless.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
This is an opinion based on trial and error, and is no way grounded in datamining or spreadsheets of numbers, so keep your stakes and pitchforks back....
However, from reading up and just personal experience, MoG's biggest problem often ends up being the level it's available (hear me out on this). At 38, much to SR's unfortunateness as well, Autohits, Psis and Toxics really start to pop up and be plentiful and powerful around this time (my first time using MoG was a Nemesis pack... bad move...), so what should amount to our last ditch move to clear a span ends up being a quick and painful (and often embarassing) faceplant. At least Elude gets the movement bonus...
Admittedly, MoG is more of a gambler's type of fun than Elude or Unstoppable, so there are people who are going to get their kicks out of it (hell, I use it to this day to piss off my Emp sister-in-law), but imhho, there is something wrong with a power when it is generally agreed that a buff to the power's duration is considered a nerf to the power... that shouldn't sit right with anybody.
A backup of a decent last ditch power (IH) is all MoG is ever going to amount to be, unless the other sets get buffed so far out the yin-yang that Regens have a right to demand a better tier-9 (read, never happening). Now, if they wanted to have some fun with Regen and diversify it a little from the other Scrapper secondaries, they could get rid of MoG all together, put a throw-away power in the level-28 slot, and put toggle IH (at a reduced heal rate and slightly reduced end cost) in the 38 slot. Tanks and Brutes have a defense-set with a toggle tier-9 (Stone Armor), why not use this as an opportunity to give Stalkers and Scrappers one as well?
PvPers could say this would overpower Regen, but Regens also wouldn't get any boost to defense or resistance, no extra mez protection or boosted endurance recovery with their tier-9, and can be detoggled as well as any other toggle (disorients can still be a pain) which means that Regens don't get the continuity or lasting effect of a click power (like Practiced Brawler or the current IH). Additionally, we'd actually have to worry about some REAL end management if we were using IH and FA (making us have to turn FA off during pvp fights that last more than 20-30 seconds as well as making defense-based set not so squishy against the FA-wielding Regen scrappers that infest PvP zones as much as stalkers do). On an extra note, it would still leave Regen susceptible to burst damage in PvP as well, since Regen, even at IH levels, still needs time to regenerate.
MoG at this point, unless just for giggles and personal fun, isn't really worth it. I have it as a novelty, "yay, i have my tier-9 defense!" but that's about it, unlike the SR and Invuln lines where we get our tier-9 at 38 and think, "he did what? puh-lease... WATCH THIS!!"
I think we all agree that Soul Transfer just needs redone or replace completely... DA may need more love than any of us...
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
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This is an opinion based on trial and error, and is no way grounded in datamining or spreadsheets of numbers, so keep your stakes and pitchforks back....
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And common sense. If anyone pulls out any pitchforks after your post, they'll deal with me.
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However, from reading up and just personal experience, MoG's biggest problem often ends up being the level it's available (hear me out on this). At 38, much to SR's unfortunateness as well, Autohits, Psis and Toxics really start to pop up and be plentiful and powerful around this time (my first time using MoG was a Nemesis pack... bad move...), so what should amount to our last ditch move to clear a span ends up being a quick and painful (and often embarassing) faceplant. At least Elude gets the movement bonus...
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Absolutely correct. As the SRs are want to whine, defense gets mauled in the high levels. So when should we give Regen a defense power: THE HIGH LEVELS 
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A backup of a decent last ditch power (IH) is all MoG is ever going to amount to be, unless the other sets get buffed so far out the yin-yang that Regens have a right to demand a better tier-9 (read, never happening). Now, if they wanted to have some fun with Regen and diversify it a little from the other Scrapper secondaries, they could get rid of MoG all together, put a throw-away power in the level-28 slot, and put toggle IH (at a reduced heal rate and slightly reduced end cost) in the 38 slot. Tanks and Brutes have a defense-set with a toggle tier-9 (Stone Armor), why not use this as an opportunity to give Stalkers and Scrappers one as well?
[/ QUOTE ]
I too think they should remove MoG altogether in its current state. However, I think they should give it a non-defensive functionality. Other than QR, Regen doesn't have anything that aids with offense.
I would do a short term +dmg, +recharge boost with MoG's full heal for MoG. Perhaps about 30 seconds with a 180 second recharge. It would be thematic, and not overpowered. Arcana wants to keep +rech, but Regen is self-empathy so we got a claim to it! Interestingly enough, +rech makes more sense for Regen than defense every will.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
But at the same time I think a full heal may be a bit much, esp in PvP. Maybe a 25%, fully enhanceable, heal (similar to reconstruction? This way, fully-slotted, it's no better than reconstruction (trying to stay away from overpowering the set). Let the SR's have the movement and +recharge. It fits them. A heal and 30sec +dam (read, no +ToHit) would fit for us. Even though the +rech does fit regens, seeing as how their bodies have an inherently higher metabolism, it probably would fit TOO well with Quick Recovery, thus I'm suggesting Regens have no +rech.
30 sec duration and 180 recharge means fully slotted it's running almost every 30 out of 90 seconds (considering it recharges while the damage buff is running), so maybe 240-300 seconds down would be better (yeah, i know, kind of lengthy, but then again, attempting to not overpower). So fully slotted it's running 30 of 150 seconds and down two minutes. Seems fair for a move that amounts to Recon+.
Your moment would be good at 28, that way, with IH at 38, SRs get defense, Invulns get Resistence, Regens get Regen, and (revive should also be booted from the set for this) DAs get to rise from the dead.
What I might also like to see is the unenhanceable portions removed from the sets. I think this has been said before, but is it really necessary with ED in effect? Or would that just be too much.
I am, however, a buff bot, therefore, to make it up to the rest of the sets, the SR passives should be rolled into one (other tricks can be made up by Arcana, although I'm sure one of them is along the lines of a click that flattens Regen for at least 20 seconds), Invuln's passives should be rolled into one (Energies and Elements) and they should get a passive for Psis (even if it's only 15% enhanced). Darks can have the accuracy for Cloak of Fear boosted, along with an across the board redux in end costs. Or just put KB protection in one of their toggles (same for Fire Armor, but that's another page).
My attempt to do something for everybody...
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
Actually a +dmg 25% heal at 28 would be pretty good with Instant Healing becoming the true 38 power at the end. Only problem is that is a net nerf to the set since people get IH now at 28. So I would keep MoG at 38.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
What if it were re-made into a toggle? And completely enhanceable? But moved to 38..........
...what? 
I've already forgotten about most of you
i still like my idea of combining revive and MoG and replacing revive with a click version of QR.
/mumblemumble
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
Unfortunately, I think MoG will never be touched. Oh, they might tweak the numbers a bit but MoG will remain the same: a -regen/-heal power in a Regen set.
It has the same logic as placing a 9th tier power on Invulnerability:
Moment of Dev Supidity
Loose all +Res; Loose all +Defense.
Gain XXXXX regen.
Glow brightly.
Die fast.
lol
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Give me a situation, a real game situation where I would use MoG. I'll plan around it. Yes, I'll use inspirations often time, but who cares because that's part of our powers as well.
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That's an impossible hurdle to overcome. The regeneration set plus the proper combination of inspirations is essentially invulnerable.
Its so impossible a hurdle to overcome, its not even restricted to the regeneration set. When my dark armor needs it, she *buys* Elude from the nearest contact, and solos EBs basically with just mez protection. So do my blasters. The fact that every power including Elude can be trivialized with inspirations makes the argument worthless to me.
Or, prove me wrong: find a situation where an SR scrapper would use Elude, where I could not avoid using Elude by preparing in advance with inspirations. Or find a situation where you would use unstoppable, that I couldn't eliminate the need for it with suitable inspirations.
In fact, the only scrapper tier 9 you can't actually replicate with inspirations in full is Soul Transfer.
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Interestingly enough, +rech makes more sense for Regen than defense every will.
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Yep, increased health makes more sense for regen, increased endurance recovery makes more sense for regen, and now increased speed makes more sense for regen than any other set. It won't be long before increased damage makes more sense for regen, increased accuracy makes more sense for regen, and increased perception makes more sense for regen. I'm sure there's an issue of Wolverine that backs that up.
All passives, of course, because attention deficit disorder also makes more sense for regen. I'm sure there's an issue of Wolverine that backs that up also.
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[ QUOTE ]
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Give me a situation, a real game situation where I would use MoG. I'll plan around it. Yes, I'll use inspirations often time, but who cares because that's part of our powers as well.
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That's an impossible hurdle to overcome. The regeneration set plus the proper combination of inspirations is essentially invulnerable.
Its so impossible a hurdle to overcome, its not even restricted to the regeneration set. When my dark armor needs it, she *buys* Elude from the nearest contact, and solos EBs basically with just mez protection. So do my blasters. The fact that every power including Elude can be trivialized with inspirations makes the argument worthless to me.
Or, prove me wrong: find a situation where an SR scrapper would use Elude, where I could not avoid using Elude by preparing in advance with inspirations. Or find a situation where you would use unstoppable, that I couldn't eliminate the need for it with suitable inspirations.
In fact, the only scrapper tier 9 you can't actually replicate with inspirations in full is Soul Transfer.
[/ QUOTE ]the last statment is untrue,but only becuse there is no insperation that turns off your ability to regen or be healed.
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Or, prove me wrong: find a situation where an SR scrapper would use Elude, where I could not avoid using Elude by preparing in advance with inspirations. Or find a situation where you would use unstoppable, that I couldn't eliminate the need for it with suitable inspirations.
In fact, the only scrapper tier 9 you can't actually replicate with inspirations in full is Soul Transfer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, no problem. Beside the defense, Elude gives's 34.6% resistance to defense debuffing, a 50% run speed increase, some additional Jump and 100% endurance recovery. So to get Elude you need:
12 Lucks; 12 CaBs
That gives you the defense and the endurance. Oh darnit. There's a defense debuffer. Oh wait: YOU HAVE ELUDE!! With Elude and your toggles and passives, you have a 97% resistance to defense debuffing. Hmm... Lucks don't do that. I know, Positron beat the crap out of my EM/FA the first time using lucks.
Oh who's that over there. Darn. Speed debuffer. My regen's moving like they are on acid. Oh, your Elude guys gets a clicky +speed +jump. WoW. Where's my inspiration for that.
Oh and one other thing. You notice how I have 12 Lucks and 12 CaBs up there. Guess what? You can only hold 20 inspirations!!!111lol11!!
As for Unstoppable you need more Break Frees than you can carry to match its mez protection. It's true for MoG as well, but Unstoppable doesn't debuff you to damage types you're normally strong against.
Your biases are showing, Arcana.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
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Give me a situation, a real game situation where I would use MoG. I'll plan around it. Yes, I'll use inspirations often time, but who cares because that's part of our powers as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's an impossible hurdle to overcome. The regeneration set plus the proper combination of inspirations is essentially invulnerable.
Its so impossible a hurdle to overcome, its not even restricted to the regeneration set. When my dark armor needs it, she *buys* Elude from the nearest contact, and solos EBs basically with just mez protection. So do my blasters. The fact that every power including Elude can be trivialized with inspirations makes the argument worthless to me.
Or, prove me wrong: find a situation where an SR scrapper would use Elude, where I could not avoid using Elude by preparing in advance with inspirations. Or find a situation where you would use unstoppable, that I couldn't eliminate the need for it with suitable inspirations.
In fact, the only scrapper tier 9 you can't actually replicate with inspirations in full is Soul Transfer.
[/ QUOTE ]the last statment is untrue,but only becuse there is no insperation that turns off your ability to regen or be healed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Replicate, or exceed.
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[ QUOTE ]
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Interestingly enough, +rech makes more sense for Regen than defense every will.
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Yep, increased health makes more sense for regen, increased endurance recovery makes more sense for regen, and now increased speed makes more sense for regen than any other set. It won't be long before increased damage makes more sense for regen, increased accuracy makes more sense for regen, and increased perception makes more sense for regen. I'm sure there's an issue of Wolverine that backs that up.
All passives, of course, because attention deficit disorder also makes more sense for regen. I'm sure there's an issue of Wolverine that backs that up also.
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Umm.. take your pill.
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now increased speed makes more sense for regen than any other set.
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I DID NOT SAY THAT!!
I said +recharge makes more sense for Regen than defense. I did not say it makes more sense for Regen than it does for SR. You can read, you're too smart for that BS, Arcana. I'm not going to allow you to strawman me.
A person who heals fast also recovers from the strain of using their abilities faster. That's just frikken common sense. That why I said +recharge makes more sense for Regen than being able to dodge.
I did not say that it doesn't make sense for SR and I wouldn't because it does.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Or, prove me wrong: find a situation where an SR scrapper would use Elude, where I could not avoid using Elude by preparing in advance with inspirations. Or find a situation where you would use unstoppable, that I couldn't eliminate the need for it with suitable inspirations.
In fact, the only scrapper tier 9 you can't actually replicate with inspirations in full is Soul Transfer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, no problem. Beside the defense, Elude gives's 34.6% resistance to defense debuffing, a 50% run speed increase, some additional Jump and 100% endurance recovery. So to get Elude you need:
12 Lucks; 12 CaBs
That gives you the defense and the endurance. Oh darnit. There's a defense debuffer. Oh wait: YOU HAVE ELUDE!! With Elude and your toggles and passives, you have a 97% resistance to defense debuffing. Hmm... Lucks don't do that. I know, Positron beat the crap out of my EM/FA the first time using lucks.
Oh who's that over there. Darn. Speed debuffer. My regen's moving like their on acid. Oh, your Elude guys gets a clicky +speed +jump. WoW. Where's my inspiration for that.
Oh and one other thing. You notice how I have 12 Lucks and 12 CaBs up there. Guess what? You can only hold 20 inspirations!!!111lol11!!
As for Unstoppable you need more Break Frees than you can carry to match its mez protection. It's true for MoG as well, but Unstoppable doesn't debuff you to damage types you're normally strong against.
Your biases are showing, Arcana.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see a situation in there.
For an SR scrapper to get I7 Elude's defense only requires 2 lucks per minute, not four. With four, you can drop toggles, and those CaBs are much less necessary. If you're going to count CaBs, then you should in fact count the number of break frees required to equal MoG's additional mez protection during its running time (about 2-3 per minute), not dismiss them out of hand.
I normally don't count things like running and jumping boosts for the same reason I don't count quick recovery itself when comparing damage mitigation: too complex to give it a fair look. I think when I drop the run speed boosts SR gets and the endurance recovery that regen gets when I look at both sets, I'm not being especially biased against regen when I do. Ditto the tohit bonuses in invincibility.
Don't even get me started on the defense debuff resistance.
And the same disingenous biases led me to calculate in a more precise way just how much MoG is underpowered. So I guess its only disingenously biased when I disagree about *how* MoG is underpowered, not when I state *the degree* to which Mog is underpowered.
Now that you mention Positron, I was on a team with a regen stalker that was forced to go MoG against him. High damage + regen debuffing. Granted, that was a stalker, not a scrapper, but you're suggesting lucks would not have been reasonable against him. MoG's very high base defense allowed the defense debuffs to be absorbed even though they were not resisted: replicating that would have taken about seven or eight lucks per minute at least.
I don't actually consider it an especially meaningful thing to be able to come up with a single example of where MoG is useful, so I don't usually mention it, but it does satisfy your criteria of a case where MoG was inherently useful: against a high order defense debuffing, regeneration debuffing, opponent. Under those circumstances, the best protection is ultrahigh defense, sufficiently high to work in the face of severe debuffing.
Even Elude (even Elude + toggles + passives) don't go quite that high.
As an aside, MoG's defense (71.25% according to Prima) implies a base scale of 9.5, or 95% defense at AT modifier 0.100 (which scrappers do not have, but at one time did). MoG's defense number appears to be a fossil of a time when someone probably really didn't understand how their own game engine worked, and thought 95% defense is what you needed to guarantee a 5% floored attacker. Which strongly implies that the power has never been properly balanced for effect: its just been tweaked here and there, but may have serious design flaws frozen into it just because the original designer of the power made significant mechanical errors.
The side-effect of being unable to be resistance buffed is probably just one of those side effects that is probably unintended, and makes the side effects of the power much more severe than they are supposed to be. Possibly a good case for suggesting that MoG was originally supposed to turn off *enhanced* healing, but not actual *base* healing, but that was too complicated to do initially, and the thought was that that was numerically unimportant. *IF* its a design error, its a much more important one than they probably assumed.
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[ QUOTE ]
Don't even get me started on the defense debuff resistance.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it's not working, that's another problem. It SHOULD be working and it SHOULD be a benefit over lucks.
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For an SR scrapper to get I7 Elude's defense only requires 2 lucks per minute, not four. With four, you can drop toggles, and those CaBs are much less necessary. If you're going to count CaBs, then you should in fact count the number of break frees required to equal MoG's additional mez protection during its running time (about 2-3 per minute), not dismiss them out of hand.
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The difference between the two, and what you keep ignoring is that Elude does not make you weaker in ANY way. MoG does. That makes it's benefits inherently less valuable than Eludes. You pay with Elude with an endurance crash three minutes from activation. MoG pays in second 2 through 195 of the powers effects. That's why I poo poo the mez protection. Normally, I would count that as a significant benefit, but at the times where incredible mez protection (mostly PvP) would be a benefit, MoG blows.
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And the same disingenous biases led me to calculate in a more precise way just how much MoG is underpowered. So I guess its only disingenously biased when I disagree about *how* MoG is underpowered, not when I state *the degree* to which Mog is underpowered.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you're always disingenuous. You use arguments that if someone used them regarding SR, you would jump down their throat. For example, anytime someone says that SR is fine because they have Elude, here you come with your arguments for why that isn't fair. Well, this is the opposite. MoG isn't fair just because the rest of Regen is strong, but that doesn't stop you from arguing it.
You saying that MoG last too long didn't require math, it required using the power. Many people said the same thing long before you came along. No offense, but your word doesn't have any inherent authority. You're a generally good egg, a Scrapper advocate, I can't have any hate for a fellow killer. But your stated goal has been to ensure than Regen doesn't get improved in any way and SR does.
Taking 60 seconds off MoG would make the power better, but it wouldn't be a buff. It would just make it less annoying.
Now, while I think you don't come into this discussion as an honest broker, that doesn't mean I don't think you're basically right. MoG would be too powerful if just straight buffed. I don't even want that. I don't think Fanboy's idea of a Revive uber power is out of line. I don't think my heal plus damage click is out of line. I think both are nerfs of sorts, since some people take the MoG gamble and do alright.
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I don't actually consider it an especially meaningful thing to be able to come up with a single example of where MoG is useful, so I don't usually mention it, but it does satisfy your criteria of a case where MoG was inherently useful: against a high order defense debuffing, regeneration debuffing, opponent. Under those circumstances, the best protection is ultrahigh defense, sufficiently high to work in the face of severe debuffing.
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Who's that? Positron? Well, I've fought Anti-Matter with Sturdies and it worked fine. And I could heal. As for a Stalker, well they have other problems.
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As an aside, MoG's defense (71.25% according to Prima) implies a base scale of 9.5, or 95% defense at AT modifier 0.100 (which scrappers do not have, but at one time did). MoG's defense number appears to be a fossil of a time when someone probably really didn't understand how their own game engine worked, and thought 95% defense is what you needed to guarantee a 5% floored attacker. Which strongly implies that the power has never been properly balanced for effect: its just been tweaked here and there, but may have serious design flaws frozen into it just because the original designer of the power made significant mechanical errors.
The side-effect of being unable to be resistance buffed is probably just one of those side effects that is probably unintended, and makes the side effects of the power much more severe than they are supposed to be. Possibly a good case for suggesting that MoG was originally supposed to turn off *enhanced* healing, but not actual *base* healing, but that was too complicated to do initially, and the thought was that that was numerically unimportant. *IF* its a design error, its a much more important one than they probably assumed.
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That's probably all true. I just don't think Geko cares that much honestly. So long as somebody's taking the power and using it, he's probably happy. But you've shown how problematic defense is in this game for years now.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
You guys realize you are both beyond the ability to debate either Regen or SR (or the powers within) without either seeming completely biased towards the obvious preference?
Neither is going to change their opinions and neither is going to think the other is "more right". How long has this been going on? What's the freaking point?
This isn't even a debate anymore.
I've already forgotten about most of you
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So should i pick Mog or Phase shift on my spines/regen stalker?
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I use teleport, slotted for distance.
Mr. Miyagi: Best defense ... no be there.
50 Fire/Dev | 50 AR/Dev | 50 Ninjas/FF MM | 50 Bots/Dark | 50 Kin/Rad |
44 EM/Regen | 39 BS/Regen | 38 Kin/Elec | 27 Thugs/Pain
"Rare is the man so noble that he will always give thanks for that which is freely given." -Jock_Tamson