Just use your normal attacks. You don't need to kill people in 2-3 hits.
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Can we get some numbers?
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Since you asked... (actually, this should have been done before.)
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Here is a complete list of all powers which have DropToggles associated with them and the percentage chance of the attribute taking place. In the case of powers which have a chance of dropping 2 toggles, I calculated the chance for this to happen and included it in the list.
Note: Blaster, Corruptor and Mastermind Trip Mines have drastically different percentages. I think this is a Bug -- I think the Corruptor/MM version was skipped when making these changes, or Trip Mine for Villains was increased, and Blasters were skipped. Either way, I'll be making changes to the chances for that in a future update.
Inherent: Brawl: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Devices: Trip Mine: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Devices: Time Bomb: 19% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Electrical Manipulation: Charged Brawl: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Electrical Manipulation: Havok Punch: 22% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Energy Manipulation: Bone Smasher: 22% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Energy Manipulation: Energy Punch: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Fire Manipulation: Fire Sword: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Fire Manipulation: Fire Sword Circle: 22% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Ice Manipulation: Frozen Fists: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Ice Manipulation: Ice Sword: 22% for 1 Toggle
Defender Force Field: Force Bolt: 8% and 2% for 1 Toggle; 0.16% chance of 2 Toggles
Controller Force Field: Force Bolt: 5% for 1 Toggle
Mastermind Force Field: Force Bolt: 5% for 1 Toggle
Defender Force Field: Repulsion Bomb: 27% and 5% for 1 Toggle; 1.35% chance of 2 Toggles
Controller Force Field: Repulsion Bomb: 19% for 1 Toggle
Mastermind Force Field: Repulsion Bomb:19% for 1 Toggle
Defender Force Field: Repulsion Field: 5% and 2% chance for 1 Toggle per 1/2 second; 0.1% chance for 2 Toggles per 1/2 second
Controller Force Field: Repulsion Field: 3% for 1 Toggle per 1/2 second
Mastermind Force Field: Repulsion Field: 3% for 1 Toggle per 1/2 second
Defender: Kinetics: Repel: 5% and 2% chance for 1 Toggle per 1/2 second; 0.1% chance for 2 Toggles per 1/2 second
Controller: Kinetics: Repel: 3% for 1 Toggle per 1/2 second
Corruptor: Kinetics: Repel: 3% for 1 Toggle per 1/2 second
Peacebringer: White Dwarf Strike: 5% for 1 Toggle Defender
Storm Summoning: Lightning Storm: 20% and 4% for 1 Toggle; 0.8% chance of 2 Toggles
Controller Storm Summoning: Lightning Storm: 17% for 1 Toggle
Defender Storm Summoning: Thunder Clap: 12% and 2% for 1 Toggle; 0.4% chance of 2 Toggles
Controller Storm Summoning: Thunder Clap: 8% for 1 Toggle
Warshade: Black Dwarf Strike: 5% for 1 Toggle
Stalker: Assassin's Claw: 22% and 4% for 1 Toggle; 0.88% chance for 2 Toggles
Stalker: Assassin's Strike: 22% and 4% for 1 Toggle; 0.88% chance for 2 Toggles
Stalker: Assassin's Blow: 22% and 4% for 1 Toggle; 0.88% chance for 2 Toggles
Stalker: Assassin's Blade: 22% and 4% for 1 Toggle; 0.88% chance for 2 Toggles
Stalker: Assassin's Impaler: 22% and 4% for 1 Toggle; 0.88% chance for 2 Toggles
Stalker: Assassin's Eclipse: 22% and 4% for 1 Toggle; 0.88% chance for 2 Toggles
Dominator: Bone Smasher: 5% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Total Focus: 64% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Incinerate: 5% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Blaze: 64% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Ice Sword: 5% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Greater Ice Sword: 64% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Mind Probe: 5% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Psychic Shockwave: 64% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Skewer: 5% for 1 Toggle
Dominator: Ripper: 64% for 1 Toggle
Mastermind: Assault Bot Smash: 5% for 1 Toggle
Corruptor: Traps: Time Bomb: 19% for 1 Toggle
Corruptor: Traps: Trip Mine: 75% and 37% for 1 Toggle; 27.75% chance for 2 Toggles
Mastermind: Traps: Trip Mine: 75% and 37% for 1 Toggle; 27.75% chance for 2 Toggles
EDIT: Fixed formatting
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Thanks for the work that you do, Castle. It will be interesting to see how this works out. By all means, keep uo the good work.
You know, in I4 the Devs said that the game was being balanced not with one-on-one PvP in mind but more for group-based PvP. I am trying to figure out what is so hard about comprehending that for people.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Total Focus does not have a DropToggles attribute. It does have a Disorient, and that can drop toggles.
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Uh...that doesn't explain this, from your list:
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Dominator: Total Focus: 64% for 1 Toggle
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So, is that inaccurate, or is it the Blaster/Tanker versions that have no DropToggle attribute?
Does being disoriented not drop ALL active toggles? I'm asking because I don't know.
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Argh! Blasters, Tankers, Brutes and Stalkers Total focus does not have a Toggle Drop associated with it (aside from the Disorient) -- Dominators do. I didn't re-read the entire list and only checked the Blaster version for the quoted post. Sorry.
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We understand, its easy to overlook anyone actually playing a dominator.
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fighting brutes tended to be a very evenly matched fight before, and I think I'm in real trouble now. *sigh*
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Yeah, it was real fun fighting fotm Blasters that could detoggle multiple defenses with every other hit. You'd spend the entire fight retoggling, while not gaining any significant Fury in the process. Good riddance.
Get some range and <gasp> Blast.
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Yeah, I'll get right on that as soon as I actually get some powerful ranged attacks in my primary aside from my worthless, interruptible, blocked by going out of Line of Sight snipe and my nuke.
But I guess I can count on the oh-so-powerful Voltaic Sentinel to win my battles for me.
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Hey, be grateful you've even got that much: FF Defenders just got told, in so many words, "Shut the hell up and buff, [censored]."
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If toggle dropping was a characters sole chance to be effective, then I think you need to be looking for a bigger problem here.
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"FF is working as intended."
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dominators are also working as intended I suppose then.
I'm all for not losing 2 toggles every time a stalker AS's me, or such, but I do still think the percentages seem a little low. I mean, personally, I might have gone for 10% over 5% on a lot of those powers, since you can't exactly spam them, and 1 in 10 hits dropping one toggle certainly isn't a lot of skin off of most people's backs it'd seem.
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If toggle dropping was a characters sole chance to be effective, then I think you need to be looking for a bigger problem here.
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"FF is working as intended."
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dominators are also working as intended I suppose then.
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Dominators are working?
*sigh*
If Frozen Fists only have a 5% chance of dropping toggles in i7, does it mean MONSTERS, like Outcasts, will also follow these rules? Or will they drop our toggles as frequently as before?
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
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Just use your normal attacks. You don't need to kill people in 2-3 hits.
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I do if I can be killed in 2-3 hits by a Tanker/Scrapper/Brute. And they have defenses. I don't.
Before, my fights with melee classes were 50/50, mostly due to toggle dropping. Now, I can see that number dropping to nil.
We're not all FoTM Ice or Fire/Energy blasters, you know.
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Here is how I think you interpret those numbers.
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Defender Force Field: Force Bolt: 8% and 2% for 1 Toggle; 0.16% chance of 2 Toggles
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There are two separate dice rolls for dropping toggles. The first has an 8% chance of dropping a toggle. The second has a 2% chance of dropping a toggle. The chance that they both hit is
0.08 * 0.02 = 0.0016 or 0.16%
So your chance of dropping two toggles is 0.16%.
The chance that only one of them hits is
0.08 + 0.02 - 0.0016 = 0.0984 or 9.84%
So the net result is you have a 9.84% chance of dropping one toggle and a 0.16% chance of dropping two toggles.
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Actually, the math's slightly off.
The chance that zero toggles drop: 0.92 * 0.98 = 0.9016 or 90.16%
The chance that the first drops and the second doesn't: 0.08 * 0.98 = 0.0784 or 7.84%
The chance that the first doesn't and the second does: 0.92 * 0.02 = 0.0184 or 1.84%
The chance that both of them drop: 0.08 * 0.02 = 0.0016 or 0.16%
The chance that either the first or second roll drops: 0.0784 + 0.0184 = 0.0968 or 9.68%
The chance that at least one toggle is dropped
= 100% - chance that zero is dropped = 1 - 0.9016 = 0.984 or 9.84%
The difference isn't much, as the chances themselves are small.
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Here is another example just so you see the pattern:
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Defender Force Field: Repulsion Bomb: 27% and 5% for 1 Toggle; 1.35% chance of 2 Toggles
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Chance of dropping 1 Toggle = 27% + 5% - 1.35% = 30.65%
Chance of dropping 2 Toggles = 1.35%.
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Similarly:
0 toggles: 0.73 * 0.95 = 0.6935 or 69.35%
2 toggles: 0.27 * 0.05 = 0.0135 or 1.35%
exactly 1 toggle: 100% - 0_toggel - 2_toggles = 1 - 0.6935 - 0.0135 = 0.293 or 29.3%
1 or 2 toggles: 1 - 0.6935 = 0.3065 or 30.65%
As the chances of 2 toggles dropping are so slim, best figures to concentrate on should be the chance that any toggles are dropped or the inverse (chance of none dropping).
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I, for one, welcome our new */Energy Melee Tanker overlords.
Seriously though, I think there needs to be a happy medium. Suggestions to make travel powers somehow ignored in calculating a toggle drop would probably go a long way towards making it seem worth a squishy's time to even attempt toggle dropping.
Realistically speaking, the toggle that most people want to drop is the mez protection as that leaves the melee character most vulnerable. Let's take a look at the practical percentages for this happening now versus various "standard" builds.
Best case scenario of one squishy villain trying to drop one melee hero's mez protection... */Psychic Dominator vs. */Regeneration Scrapper:
Scrapper is only running Integration with no other toggles.
Dominator has a 64% chance of dropping Integration with Psychic Shockwave.
Scrapper is running Integration/Combat Jumping.
Dominator has a 32% chance of dropping Integration with Psychic Shockwave.
Scrapper is running Integration/Combat Jumping/Sprint
Dominator has a 21.3% chance of dropping Integration with Psychic Shockwave.
If the system ignored travel powers while determining what gets dropped, then 64% seems a good chance, but just running two low cost toggles effectively cuts all chances of dropping an important toggle very dramatically.
I predict this will just further reinforce the behavior of all archetypes ignoring the melee classes in order to attack the non-melee ones. Well, with the exception of Stalkers, perhaps. 
Oh, and it will also make controllers seem more powerful yet again since the only reliable toggle dropping will be through stacking holds, disorients, or sleeps.
Rock, paper, scissors indeed.
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Or you could meet up with my Respeced Regen Scrapper and have these as her toggles to try to drop to get to integration:
Sprint/SuperSpeed/Integration/Stealth/Assault/Tactics/Focused Accuracy/Fly
Man. Who would've thought loading up on the power pools would put me even prettier for PvP.
Realistically though, I'd be running
SuperSpeed/Stealth/Integration/Assault/Tactics/Focused Accuracy
I think part of the problem of nerfing toggle dropping is that you have people who aren't even so toggle intensive to begin with, loading up with toggles so they can see stalkers.
Imagine if another build could handle as many extra toggles as I've been able to throw in there with my /Regen. That's insane.
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Blaster: Devices: Trip Mine: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Devices: Time Bomb: 19% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Electrical Manipulation: Charged Brawl: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Electrical Manipulation: Havok Punch: 22% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Energy Manipulation: Bone Smasher: 22% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Energy Manipulation: Energy Punch: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Fire Manipulation: Fire Sword: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Fire Manipulation: Fire Sword Circle: 22% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Ice Manipulation: Frozen Fists: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Ice Manipulation: Ice Sword: 22% for 1 Toggle
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I see something very wrong here.
In regards to my Ice/Energy blapper, I agree. This change was needed, and the numbers for /EM aren't far off. High damage + stuns + good toggle-drops all rolled into one = broken.
However, I feel like my fire/fire blaster is being unneccessarily punished for the sins of /EM. Keep in mind that /fire is already arguably the worst PvP blaster secondary.
First and worst, is that with the exception of /devices, which has a completely unrelated delivery mechanism, /fire is the only secondary that gets a primary (22%) toggle-knock that does not queue. While the /EM's, /Electrics, and /Ices get to queue up their attack and joust, /Fire has to actually make a serious entry into melee, hit the Fire Sword Circle, and pray that the opponent hasn't hopped away or that lag is lying to you about being in melee range. With the speed of movement in PvP, this is a tremendous disadvantage.
Second - all other blaster secondaries get one attack that is the "complete package" - the best toggle-knocker, the best damage, and the best change to mezz (when applicable) all in one attack. /Fire is the only secondary with a primary toggle knocker attached to a weaker damaging attack than the secondary toggle knocker. The only special distinguishing characteristic that /Fire's primary toggle-knocker gets is that you probably won't even get a to-hit roll for your trouble.
Finally, I just feel that the devs are missing an opportunity to finally give /fire a flavor in PvP. /EM has mezz and great utility such as Boost Range and Power Boost. /Electricity has mezz and Endurance Modification. /Ice has slows, a hold, and Ice Patch. /Dev has actual utility and even offers its own unique fighting style in tp-trapping. /Fire has....Hot Feet? Blazing Aura? Burn?
/Fire has damage, and that's all. It's not even as much damage or as frequently unresisted damage as /EM. Not to mention that when compared to the grossness of toggledrop-stun-win, /fire is the set that best exemplifies the original intent of toggle-dropping: to allow the blaster a chance to deal some actual damage against armored up foes. The adjustment of toggle-dropping in PvP is an opportunity to give /fire an actual PvP flavor of its own by making it *the* toggle-dropping set. Instead, the proposed changes are throwing out the baby with the bathwater and excessively punishing what is already the worst blaster secondary in PvP.
What do I propose instead? First of all, /Fire's primary toggle knocker should be moved to Fire Sword. That move is only common sense. A primary toggle-knocker that doesn't queue for the weakest secondary is just cruel and unusual punishment.
Second, the devs should recognize that /fire is weak in PvP, needs a secondary effect to have some PvP flavor, and truly uses toggle-dropping for its intended purpose, rather than a stun & win button. Fire Sword, as the primary toggle-knocker, should have a higher chance to drop toggles than other sets' primary toggle-knockers. I wouldn't find 50% to be unreasonable, and keep in mind that as a player who has an Ice/EM specifically for PvP, I find the 22% on Bone Smasher to be perfectly reasonable.
And as far as FSC? Even with a pumped up Fire Sword, I'd leave it at 22%. In the majority of PvP action, it won't even earn a to-hit roll anyways, but it will come into play in unique situations, such as vs. granite tanks or in a team scenario with teammates that can slow opponents. This will add flavor and variety to the rock-paper-scissors matchups of PvP.
Please devs - don't gimp the gimpy. Take this opportunity to not only remove the gross toggle-drop-stun-win abuse but to also add greater flavor and balance across the sets in PvP.
Im not much for DOOOM......but this is a joke. This just takes toggle dropping right out of the equation completely. It was a great part of PvP that actually gave some AT's and sets a chance. Now most powers are at 5%???? You realize that out of 100 attacks with brawl, 5 will drop a toggle. How can this even be worth attempting??
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Im not much for DOOOM......but this is a joke. This just takes toggle dropping right out of the equation completely. It was a great part of PvP that actually gave some AT's and sets a chance. Now most powers are at 5%???? You realize that out of 100 attacks with brawl, 5 will drop a toggle. How can this even be worth attempting??
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So you're saying crits from scrappers were out of the question?
yeh these numbers caught me by suprisde too. I mean i was in favor of bringing down the toggle dropping numbers but lowering some of them like brawl to 5%????
These posted numbers make me extremely happy as a regular PVP'er. ED is the exact reason why toggle dropping wasn't necessary to the degree it currently exists in. Damn straight.
Yes maybe a few powers could be raised slightly, I'll give you that. But I've got no problem with these numbers staying as they are.
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Im not much for DOOOM......but this is a joke. This just takes toggle dropping right out of the equation completely. It was a great part of PvP that actually gave some AT's and sets a chance. Now most powers are at 5%???? You realize that out of 100 attacks with brawl, 5 will drop a toggle. How can this even be worth attempting??
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So you're saying crits from scrappers were out of the question?
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Dropping sprint != doing double unresisted damage 
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These posted numbers make me extremely happy as a regular PVP'er. ED is the exact reason why toggle dropping wasn't necessary to the degree it currently exists in. Damn straight.
Yes maybe a few powers could be raised slightly, I'll give you that. But I've got no problem with these numbers staying as they are.
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I am honestly not surprised that Melee PvPers are happy about this change. It once again gives them the solid advantage in PvP. No, I have my Brute in PvP now and it is an even fight between myself and an Ice/EM blaster. After this change? Well, I guess I'll rack up another 400 rep point badge even faster with my Brute now. There isn't much blasters are going to be doing to me. I am somewhat upset that the challenge is being taken out of playing a melee character, but I guess most people that pick a melee character are not looking to play on a balanced playing field anyway. Hell, they had the advantage BEFORE the toggle drops were nerfed, now the advantage is so clear even an idiot can't fail to benefit. Which is what the whiners want of course.
Yay for Castle's endurance drain change!
Boo for toggle drop changes. No i take that back, toggle dropping changes were needed. Boo for thinking this is a fair change. Boo for widening the power gap between FOTM builds and non-FOTM. Boo for treating \nrg as the same as everything else. Boo for nerfing toggle drops without nerfing stun%/hold%. Boo for the blaster /Dev nerf (i mean come on, doesn't blaster /Dev have it bad enough in PvP? Timebomb nerf!? I would love to see the email exchange that thought giving TB less than the 22% other 2nd blaster toggle dropping skills get.)
Boo for me, for thinking the Devs care about what the other 98% of non FOTM, non HOed out blasters pvp experience is like. Boo for City of Herolessness.
Yes i play CoH. No i didn't misspell CoV, i said CoH on purpose. It's a cool game, I think if the players and devs here like CoV they will like CoH too. You can find a link to it here.
Nerf Blaster Controllers!!!!
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I am somewhat upset that the challenge is being taken out of playing a melee character, but I guess most people that pick a melee character are not looking to play on a balanced playing field anyway. Hell, they had the advantage BEFORE the toggle drops were nerfed, now the advantage is so clear even an idiot can't fail to benefit. Which is what the whiners want of course.
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Wow, someone actually put "advantage" and "melee character" in the same paragraph? Amazing, never thought I'd see it.
/sarcasm off
PS carefully in how you use the word "whiny", it could bite you in the keester.
guess blasters dont need to pvp anymore i mean we just going to get owned now. why fear a blaster if he cant drop your toggles and you can kill the blaster in a few hits, AND be mezed no problem oh well guess ill just role a Spines/Regen just like everyone else for pvp 
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Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.
-Tsoo
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Heh yup.
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I wonder how come Dominators aren't Kings of PvP then I KNOW we (well, I) whine more than that.
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Issuse 8 FoTM prediction:
Mind/Energy Dom
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It'll be mind/ice dom's. They'll be able to build domination very fast. Kite in, fire your three blasts, kite out, rinse repeat.
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I am somewhat upset that the challenge is being taken out of playing a melee character, but I guess most people that pick a melee character are not looking to play on a balanced playing field anyway. Hell, they had the advantage BEFORE the toggle drops were nerfed, now the advantage is so clear even an idiot can't fail to benefit. Which is what the whiners want of course.
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Wow, someone actually put "advantage" and "melee character" in the same paragraph? Amazing, never thought I'd see it.
/sarcasm off
PS carefully in how you use the word "whiny", it could bite you in the keester.
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Says the spine scrapper.
Just why the heck do Stalkers still have the highest toggle drop chance??? Stalkers already have unresisted damage in their criticals.
If any AT should still have high toggle drop percentages it should be defenders who cannot dish out the damage needed to bring down a toggle heavy opponent.
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fighting brutes tended to be a very evenly matched fight before, and I think I'm in real trouble now. *sigh*
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Yeah, it was real fun fighting fotm Blasters that could detoggle multiple defenses with every other hit. You'd spend the entire fight retoggling, while not gaining any significant Fury in the process. Good riddance.
Get some range and <gasp> Blast.
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Yeah, I'll get right on that as soon as I actually get some powerful ranged attacks in my primary aside from my worthless, interruptible, blocked by going out of Line of Sight snipe and my nuke.
But I guess I can count on the oh-so-powerful Voltaic Sentinel to win my battles for me.